BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Sep 21 - 11:28 AM

Yes, I've subscribed to that view for a long time. Are you starting to agree with it? Or do you just think that it's a false correllation?
Well, I am not *starting* to subscribe to it, because it is a concern I have had for a long time. I would much prefer if on everything except the most minor matters the unions balloted their members and split the block vote in line with the ballot result. It is one of the problems with the way the party is organised. That is not how it is set up, however, and I am aware it would be difficult because the exact question to ballot on is not known until conference. So it would probably need a two-stage voting system, which is cumbersome.

All party organisations have problems. Do you want me to list some of those of other parties too?

But you also need to distinguish between principles and structure, and for all the flaws in the structure, the principles of the more centrist Labour party match mine more closely than other parties. Not 100%, of course, and other parties have positions on some topics I might prefer. I have been pro PR since before I joined Charter '88 when it was first formed, for example.

(And when I say 'more central' I am aware that judged by European standards Corbyn was far more centrist than the Tory press would have us believe.)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 28 Sep 21 - 11:06 AM

They probably have little to no idea of how their members want them to vote.

Look at Unite, members aporox 1.2 million

McCluskey last elected in 2017 with 59,067 votes.

Graham elected in August with 46,696 votes.

In both those elections only approx 12% of the members voted. 12%. Makes the turn out at local elections look fantastic.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Sep 21 - 10:59 AM

Who are these barons?

They are those in control of the unions (and I don't mean their members) who control how the unions' votes are cast.

To quote Laura Parker from Labour for a New Democracy:

“Rank-and-file trade unionists play a key role in our campaign, but despite this most unions do not yet back reform. The truth is, if the leadership had engaged with this unifying policy as intensively as they pushed their own proposed rule changes, PR would now be Labour policy.”

Above quote from The Guardian

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Sep 21 - 10:34 AM

Who are these barons?

And let me remind you of a couple of things. First, the Labour Party grew out of the trade Union movement. I for one want to see that strong link retained. Second, on the question of block votes, show me that the "barons" vote against the wishes of their members. I don't think you can. It's little more than received wisdom perpetuated by the right (as is "unions holding the country to ransom"). Third, crucial votes in the Commons are usually decided by block voting. We call it whipping.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Sep 21 - 09:34 AM

DMcG:
"After an inconclusive show of hands in the conference hall in Brighton, a card vote showed just under 80% of CLP votes backing the motion. But the votes from affiliates – almost entirely comprising unions – were 95% opposed. The eventual result was nearly 58% against."

Presumably the union block votes count for more because they are supposed to be representative of their thousands of members.

Brilliant. So a comparative handful of people cast block votes to override the 80% CLP. No wonder one of the charges against Labour has always been that it is under the control of "Union barons."

Yes, I've subscribed to that view for a long time. Are you starting to agree with it? Or do you just think that it's a false correllation?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Sep 21 - 05:29 PM

errrmmm.. why have I started calling sir keer "sir keef"...!!!???

It's not a clever dick in-joke..
f@ck knows what's been miscomunicatibg
between my brain and typng fingers..

Though, it is that easy not to remember anything at all about this bland besuited corporate clone...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Sep 21 - 03:51 PM

I should have said the motion was to change from first past the post in elections.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Sep 21 - 03:49 PM

"After an inconclusive show of hands in the conference hall in Brighton, a card vote showed just under 80% of CLP votes backing the motion. But the votes from affiliates – almost entirely comprising unions – were 95% opposed. The eventual result was nearly 58% against."

Brilliant. So a comparative handful of people cast block votes to override the 80% CLP. No wonder one of the charges against Labour has always been that it is under the control of "Union barons."

Getting rid of the Tories has just been made far far harder, essentially because the unions thought they would lose influence.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Sep 21 - 09:16 AM

Quote from Philip Pullman's 'Book of Dust' volume 2 - The secret commonwealth.

It's the oldest human problem, Lyra, an' it's the difference between good and evil. Evil can be unscrupulous, and good can't. Evil has nothing to stop it doing what it wants, while good has one hand tied behind its back. To do the things it needs to do to win, it'd have to become evil to do 'em.

It's a fantasy book but I read the quote last night after watching 'highlights' of the Labour party conference. I wonder if Mr Pullman had the gift of prophecy?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Sep 21 - 04:16 AM

My son who works in Manchester just pointed out something I had not thought of. There is a shortage of bus drivers too! Being retired and not having to commute anywhere, it doesn't affect me. But how many people is that going to hit?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Sep 21 - 12:01 AM

Sir Keef - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyFt5gZ-3hQ&ab_channel=NovaraMedia

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 03:59 PM

Oh, 1900!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 03:58 PM

I think it's even worse, PFR :-(

I can't see Labour, as it stands at the moment, ever getting to power. On the other hand, the current Tory administration cannot continue its run of lies, cheating and mismanagement. Surely people will realise eventually. Won't they?

I think the best result we can hope for at the next election is a hung parliament with minority parties joining forces to force a radical restructure of our electoral system. Maybe PR? Something else? I just don't know but, whatever it is, could result in neither of the main parties having an overall majority again.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 03:50 PM

Cheers, Dave. I'm on the brink. Watching this conference anxiously...

I note the early interference of the Board of Deputies...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 03:40 PM

I went out at 9am today for petrol, saw that roads were gridlocked so turned around - much to the annoyance of a car full of yobs, and came home. Bag is packed for bus & tram to work in the morning, and probably for the rest of this week.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 03:38 PM

I'm being over optimistic hoping for a real progressive Labour Govt before I'm 70..

Better revise that to at least 75...


[l'm 62]

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 03:23 PM

My lovely daughter in law, Lee, is being threatened with expulsion from the Labour Party. Her 'crime'? Antisemitism for criticising Israel. Even though she is 100% Jewish. The real reason? Being too left wing. Last month she stood in at the last minute to be a candidate in a local election. The local party threw everything in her way but despite that, she beat their preferred Tory light candidate by a few votes and was nominated. She lost the election by a handful of votes and it went to 2 recounts. After the event she was told that the local party executive Committee abstained from voting rather than support her. The Tory contender won and that was purely down to the pettiness of the local party executive. She showed willing to stand as Labour candidate in other wards as the need arose. They couldn't have that of course.

I had already resigned from the party. It was a hard decision and I have been soul searching ever since. This debacle has confirmed that my decision was the right one. I will continue to do what I can to pull the politics of this country back from the right wing extremes it has reached. I will do this in spite of the current shower pretending to be the party of the people.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 12:47 PM

I've no interest in football or popular celebrities

but I just caught the BBC TV news 30 minute version of this quite interesting podcast..

Gary Lineker: presenter, influencer, campaigner

It seems the radio version is an hour long...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 11:59 AM

DMcG, did your daughter manage to get her flowers sorted ok?

She got some flowers, but neither the quantity nor intended style.   It ended up as essentially a bouquet and some round an arch in a garden which the groom's dad built, plus some small table decorations she made herself.

As I said, it was a somewhat fraught affair as we did not know who would be able to make it. Bride and groom were supposed to be an a formal interview at 11:30, prior to the noon service, but we were all gathered round at about twenty to, hearing text messages "SatNav is estimating I will be there about ten past twelve" and so on. Just on noon he came running up to the hall. His parents did not arrive until about ten past, but we had to start late because of the legally required interview of the bride and groom.   Both delays there were because a section of the motorway was blocked after an accident.

Apart form a slight need to dodge the next set of people arriving, it went quite smoothly after that.

Until we found the venue in the evening had double booked an 18th birthday event at the same time. Different areas, but next to each other and we had to walk through theirs to get to the bar. Not neat.

But at the 5th attempt, thanks to covid, we got there in the end!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 10:20 AM

bum bum bum bum.. arsehole blue...


.. quite fitting catchy ditty for a tory PM and his handling of a fuel crisis...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 09:34 AM

We went to Morrisons just now, tank half full. To our amazement, the forecourt was almost empty. We drove straight in and topped up. We'd gone to buy grub, not petrol, but why not we thought...

On our way into town we drove past the Esso garage, much dearer than Morrisons. They were queuing a hundred yards down the road. You couldn't make it up...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 07:36 AM

DMcG, did your daughter manage to get her flowers sorted ok?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 06:45 AM

And if anyone still reserves a scintilla of doubt about Starmer's rank inadequacy, he's proving it in spades this week: even the Guardian/Observer is referring to his conference chaos. It's clear that Angela Rayner and he don't get on. I know which one of 'em I prefer. At least calling scum scum is honest and accurate in this case. Cue being told that I don't understand tactics, etc. Well the best tactic Labour could employ would be to get rid of Sir Keir as soon as possible. He will never, ever, reside in Number Ten. And I'm a desperate party member, still clinging on...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 06:37 AM

"public transport is state owned in rep of ireland"

Not strictly true, not all of public transport in Ireland (note spelling) is state owned.

Citylink, owned by ComfortDelGro a Singaporean company, operates buses from Dublin, Galway, Cork and Clifden, there is also the Wexford Bus company.

There may be others supplies of public transport

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 06:23 AM

I agree with that.

If I want to go to Exeter I can catch a bus (a two-hour journey there and a two-hour journey back, approx four buses a day) I have to get into Bude, about four miles away. Taxi, ten or twelve quid? Back in Bude I have to get the four miles home, and I live down a lane 3/4 mile from where the extremely rare and badly-timed local bus would drop me off. Or get a taxi for ten or twelve quid... On the other hand, I can be in the multi-storey at the Guildhall in a hour and five minutes if I jump in the car and be sitting on a bench in the sun eating my Marks and Sparks Best Ever prawn butty ten minutes later.

What would YOU do?   And the answer is NOT buy a BLT instead!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 05:18 AM

I live in an isolated are in ireland i have a bus that goes in to bantry twice a week there is also a bus that comes by every morning at 8 15, my public transport travel is free so i can get on a bus at 8 15 then catch a 10 am bus to Cork, i can get back to bantry, but then have to get a txi cost 20 euros.
the answer is increasing public transport make it free, both bus and train to pensioners, but people have to use it. public transport is state owned in rep of ireland

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 05:00 AM

I did say gas (not petrol) in one post, Nigel! And I tend to think that we are all divided by Donuel's indulgent and obscurantist language...

Electric cars are not the panacea to save the world. You have to make the bloody things, you have to generate the electricity, you have to mine rare metals for the batteries in environmentally-destructive ways and they don't go far enough on a charge, etc. But I still might get one once my owld Focus snuffs it. Public transport, great. But here in Pastyshire it's almost non-existent in any useful form, and, thanks to Beeching, the biggest political vandal who ever bestrode the country, the nearest railway to me is at Bodmin Parkway, an hour's drive. You can't ban cars round here unless you want to depopulate Cornwall! Solutions, please...?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 04:46 AM

Stilly & Steve

A problem here with two countries divided by a common language.

Gas (US) petroleum (or any gaseous fluid)
Gas (UK) flammable gaseous fuel (or any other gaseous fluid)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 04:10 AM

.. and motorways only permitting utilitarian electric commercial vans & lorries,
and public transport coaches...

Yep, I can definitely do extreme lefty 'popular vote losing' idealism
quiely in my own head...

Won't see me out ranting in the streets driving the mass population further towards the far right...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 03:45 AM

I agree with you on that one, PFR. Once we have the situation where you can walk out if your front door and within 5 minutes get good, fast public transport to within 5 minutes of where you are going, we can get rid of private transport for all but those who really need it. It could be done with a mixture of small vehicles, preferably electric, going from door to hub. The hubs would be train and bus stations for longer trips. No delays on the roads with no nutters in Chelsea tractors causing havoc. Less pollution all round. What's not to like?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 11:13 PM

.. it's a funny old world.. gotta laff...!!!

.. and good serious lefties should not have to be cowed into silence
if they see deficiencies in the thinking and actions of activists on our own side...

I see too much conformist lefty peer pressure to refrain from saying anything critical
about counter productive disruptive protests by our 'heroic comrades',
or 'hippy green liberal' allies...

As strange as it may sound..
Lefty keyboard warriors may actually be ultimately more effective
than alienating mobs of street demonstrators...!!!

["Pen is mightier than the sword" 2021 remix...]

Btw.. I would like to see a proper progressive Labour party govt in power sometime before I'm 70...

sir keef is doing eff all useful to win back working class ex Labour voters
from the clutches of the alt right...

While barmy extreme* lefties are driving even more ordinary folks away to the even barmier right...


[* bearing in mind I might be even more extreme lefty than a lot of 'em..
I'm good at keeping strategically quiet when necessary..
If I had my way there'd be swingeing reductions in private car ownership..
.. oops.. I said it.. duh..]...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 10:01 PM

".. you could have nipped out the car offering them a hearty jolly pat on the back and good socialist soldarity, "

Absolutely I would have! Unfortunately, the people blocking the ambulances and the desperate relatives of sick people in Chiswick were the pricks stuck in the middle of one of the busiest junctions in London, queueing for petrol, thinking to hell with these unsavoury buggers who are horribly socialist scum anyway...). Because my lad lives in Richmond, I know this area quite well, and I can tell you without fear nor favour (looking at the cars in the jam) that many of the road-blockers panic-buying petrol were of the metro-elite set, not the hippy ex-college tree-huggers that you appear to think comprise the M25 demonstrators...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 08:38 PM

Shame there weren't also any road protesters out adding to the chaos and disruption..

.. you could have nipped out the car offering them a hearty jolly pat on the back and good socialist soldarity,
while they blocked you from getting where you needed to be
at the end of a very stressful and expensive journey...

Though it looks like tory petrol shortage crisis
is even making road traffic halting protesters redundant...

Surely sir keith can't be so usless to throw away this opportunity
to bash boris,
instead of wasting all effort attacking the left of his own party at conference..

Which is the biased angle of BBC newa headlines tonight/this mornig...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 07:52 PM

For goodness sake, Maggie. Donuel suggested that he'd heard of shortages of gas and electricity. There is a shortage of neither of those. There IS a shortage of petrol at filling stations, which Donuel didn't mention. That is currently the one and only shortage we have! That is not me "quibbling." That's you having another go at me for correcting Donuel, who is frequently in need of correcting. On this occasion, he wasn't, as he'd queried with a question mark what he'd picked up your end about the UK. I was happy to correct his reading of the matter. Harmless stuff, no wading in from you needed.

For the first time in 18 months we visited our son in London, just an overnight stay Friday to Saturday. We set off early on Friday with a full tank, blissfully unaware of the impending petrol crisis. There is no way we'd get there and back, 520 miles in total, on one tank of petrol (Fiesta, folks). We heard about the crisis on the car radio on the way there, so I did what we never do, I topped up at Leigh Delamere services (ripoff) which would have would have seen us home today but with very little fuel left. We had a 'mare getting out of London this evening (we have to come over Kew Bridge to get on the M4 at Chiswick). Well there's a big petrol station at Chiswick roundabout, and whaddya know, the panic buyers were out in such force that the whole area was gridlocked because of the on-road queueing at the filling station. We covered a mile and a half in just over an hour, knowing we then had to confront a 250-mile drive in the dark. Then , once on the M4, we found it was shut at Junction 6. So we diverted on to the M3 and A303. I don't much like the 303 in the dark. We use that route sometimes but only in daylight. Luckily, we found a filling station this side of Stonehenge that allowed us a max of £30 spend. So we've arrived home with just over half a tank. Never again! We got home at 11pm, and, I tell you, I'm a shadow of me former self!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 06:04 PM

I should perhaps add that my wife's sister's husband came from some 250 miles away. He had enough diesel in his car, but currently does not have enough to get back.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 05:59 PM

A personal anecdote on fuel shortages.

My daughter got married today. One of her best friends from Uni days who lives 130 miles away had to queue at six petrol stations for about 20 minutes a time before she could get enough petrol for the journey. I was due to drive the couple to the airport some 50 miles away tomorrow and, since my car estimated 97 miles of fuel left I went to full up, fortunately before the panic was in full swing. There were still about 10 cars in front of me and the garage was entirely out of diesel and some pumps had run out of E10.

My son and his family had their taxi cancelled at short notice because of fuel, so ended up taking the bus and running to the ceremony.

That there is fuel at the refineries may be true, but what we experienced was a shortage.

(Completely independently, there was an accident on the motorway and the groom.nearly.didn't make it

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 02:09 PM

"Thanks for helping us out of a crisis - now f@ck off back where you came from"..

Yep.. that is traditional tory gratitude...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 01:40 PM

Full details of the scheme are to follow, probably tomorrow. There has been mention of the visas just being valid for 3 months. We will have to wait and see.

I suppose the visas will work just the same as they do throughout the world, including your own country. Once the time is up it will be illegal to carry on working.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 01:25 PM

Steve, your middle name must be "Quibble." The shortage exists for consumers because they can't get the fuel, or very much very often. But you keep telling us about the full-to-bursting storage tanks with all of that fuel. It is in the eye of the beholder, and I'm taking the view of the consumer on this one.

The story has made it to the US: today on NPR they spoke about 5,000 special work visas Boris has issued to try to lure back drivers who left after the Brexit debacle. But how long will those last? Will the drivers be escorted to the border once enough UK citizens agree to drive those trucks?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 12:37 PM

My boss went out at 7am today for petrol, and failed because of lengthy queues even at that time! I shall use public transport for the 4 mile journey to work, which is at minimum 2 buses around Croydon or a bus to East Croydon Station and then a tram - which I'm not keen on because there are too many idiots not wearing masks.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 11:56 AM

There isn't a shortage of gas, Dave. Our problem is that we operate on a just-in-time basis with regard to gas in the UK and we have scant gas storage facilities. But the countries that supply our gas are not running out. We could be placed further back in the queue, 'tis true, but as things stand the issue is rocketing wholesale prices, not a shortage.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 11:50 AM

"The news here is about the UK facing imminent electricity and home heating gas shortages this winter.?"

There is no shortage of these to ANY intents and purposes, Maggie. There is a shortage of fuel at filling stations only in the sense that we haven't got enough delivery drivers to get it there. There is no shortage on these shores of gas, electricity or petrol. There is a risk of rocketing gas prices (not petrol, gas) causing severe difficulties for families and this will have a knock-on effect on electricity prices as many of our power stations are gas-fired. The refineries have more petrol than they know what to do with. It's just that they can't get enough of it to filling stations. So the news suggested by Donuel (at least he inserted his question mark) is not correct. Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DaveRo
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 11:17 AM

Stilly River Sage wrote: So for all intents and purposes, there is a shortage.

There's certainly a shortage in my petrol tank! I've had to cancel a weekend away.

What will probably happen is that everybody will go from filling up their vehicles when they are ¼ full to filling them when they are ¾ full. So there will be a short term surge in consumption of
(number of vehicles)×(mean fuel tank volume)×0.5
After that it will calm down.

There is actually a shortage of gas, in that consumption has soared (for several reasons) and producers (Russia for example) have declined to increase supplies to Europe, even at unprecedented prices.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 11:09 AM

Here's an idea..

How about a mudcat Christmas special edition..

"The collected best of Deleted British Political Posts - All the Grit Wit and Fury The Censors need to protect America from"

FREE DOWNLOAD FORMATTED FOR KINDLE.

DONATIONS GRATEFULLY ACCEPTED FOR MUDCAT'S FAVOURITE CHARITIES..

What an excellent Christmas stocking filler that could be...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 10:33 AM

So for all intents and purposes, there is a shortage.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 02:58 AM

Then find a better news agency. The problem is not a shortage. It's that the cost of gas has rocketed, which may throw many thousands more people into fuel poverty. There IS a shortage of fuel at filling stations due to distribution issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Sep 21 - 09:49 PM

The news here is about the UK facing imminent electricity and home heating gas shortages this winter.?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Sep 21 - 08:13 PM

Don't panic - no problems...!!!

Have govt informed schools something the media haven't been truthfully told yet...

Mrs Pfr came home tonight saying regional heads have messaged all local school staff to prepare for fuel crisis;
and only drive to work if they can't walk.

Organizing car share as much as possible.

While planning for any instructions to work from home again
for distance internet teaching...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Sep 21 - 06:44 PM

I wasn't aware there was a diesel shortage in Ireland, there certainly isn't one where I live.

Just saying like ....................

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Sep 21 - 02:42 PM

any smug comfily retired old folkies with the powers of mind reading and fo5rtelling the future,
should have seen I couldn't resist that cheeky little wind up...!!!

Then surely any council estate armchair warrior with nothing better to do should have seen the Pythonesque return. Even mentioned it by name

:-D