BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Sep 22 - 10:36 AM

Nottamun / Nottanum

that's the Folk Process for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: fat B****rd
Date: 20 Sep 22 - 03:54 PM

"Harraway an S***e, Well known North Eastern Shipbuilders, John :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 Sep 22 - 01:55 PM

"When my parents moved from Sunderland to Cleethorpes in 1930 the locals thought she was Scottish !!. Especially when she asked for Scallions in stead of Spring Onions . If any of my friends remarked that my Dad was a Geordie he never bothered to correct them.
Charlie (semi-mackem) "
Shows what they know Charlie, up here we call them syboes, pronounced sybies :)

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Reinhard
Date: 20 Sep 22 - 01:33 PM

The song is "Nottamun Fair/Town" in the Roud Index, in the Traditional Ballad Index, and in all recordings that I know of, not "Nottanum".

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Geoff Wallis
Date: 20 Sep 22 - 12:51 PM

'It's not "Nottinham". It's "No'ingem".'

Sorry, that's wrong. As someone born and bred in the city, it's called Nottanum (and the 'a' is almost non-existent).


And for Nottanum folk, it's Darbeh, as well, at the other end of Brian Clough ('Cluffeh') Way.

Yo' cummin' dahn ar alleh, yoth?

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 20 Sep 22 - 08:15 AM

As resident of Lincolnshire, I wonder if the second 'l' was ever pronounced and, if so, was it considered sloppy speech when people started to make it silent.

Perhaps, in time, "Nottinam’/No'ingem" and "Birminam" will become the correct pronunciation.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Sep 22 - 07:45 AM

You reminded me, fB. Visiting a pub in Whitley Bay, where I had a flat at the time, I noticed there was a leek competition where local growers showed their prize leeks. I think I upset a few people by saying that their spring onions were Ok but we had better in Lancashire :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Sep 22 - 05:14 AM

‘Nottinam’ and ‘Birminam’.
"The kind of language, up with which we will not put" Winston S Churchill

But, cough, isn't there a song called "Nottanum Town"? And we in the (much posher) Black Country** invariably referred to Brumagem in lazy slang as Brum.

**Wedgebury since you ask (or Wodensburg for the traditionalists)

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: fat B****rd
Date: 20 Sep 22 - 04:37 AM

When my parents moved from Sunderland to Cleethorpes in 1930 the locals thought she was Scottish !!. Especially when she asked for Scallions in stead of Spring Onions . If any of my friends remarked that my Dad was a Geordie he never bothered to correct them.
Charlie (semi-mackem) (fB)

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Sep 22 - 05:30 PM

If tha were posh tha'd catch Ribble buzz ter Blackpool, or yer could go on t'Mills 'n' Seddons sharrer fer an extra tanner...

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Sep 22 - 05:17 PM

…or ‘bus’ pronounced ‘buzz’.

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 19 Sep 22 - 02:19 PM

robomatic> I used to call it "swallowing the 'T'"

A more recent annoyance is young reporters (on the Beeb, Reith save us all) pronouncing "little" with the same T as in "tick". I blame their parents for not correcting such twee-isms until it's too late.

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Sep 22 - 05:49 AM

Excellent John. Couldn't understand a word :-)

I have a mate who was in the army for a while. He reckons he used to act as an interpreter between a Geordie and a Welshman who were stationed with him!

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Sep 22 - 04:27 AM

Doric onybuddy?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzS3AdzZ0Nw

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Sep 22 - 07:36 AM

Ey up cocker. Mine neyther but furriners can't figure aht worram on abart

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Sep 22 - 06:40 AM

Nowt wrong wi' mine, owd lad!

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Sep 22 - 06:36 AM

I have lost most of the Russian and Polish that is! Altough some people would point out that my English is none too good either :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Sep 22 - 06:31 AM

I did not see it as sneering Reinhard, just comparing it with English. He does go on to point out the incoinsistencies of the English language later. Having just spent 2 nights in Wales, before and after the ferry to Dublin, I can certainly see how English speakers hace difficulty with pronunciation of both Welsh and Irish and pointing it out is in no way deprecating the language - Rather the general inability of the English to learn another language. I spoke English, Russian and Polish until I was 5 or 6 and have now lost most of that. My maternal great grandmother was Welsh (From Rhuddlan) yet my Grandmother always pronounced it Rudlan rather than Hrithlin

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Reinhard
Date: 14 Sep 22 - 03:20 PM

As long as Bryson writes about the English language, 'Mother Tongue' is excellent. But I hate how he sneers at other languages' (e.g Welsh and Irish in the first chapter) spelling and alleged unpronuncability - for Deity's sake they are different languages with their own rules, and their native speakers of course don't have any problems with them. So why should they have to conform to English standards?

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Sep 22 - 02:51 AM

Oh I've got Bill Bryson's 'Mother Tongue' - like all his books, it's excellent.

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 22 - 06:25 PM

Written like a true Yorkshireman, Dave! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 22 - 05:46 PM

I can recommend Bill Bryson's "The Mother Tongue" for anyone with an interest in accents and dialects. I would even offer to send it you but I have no idea where my copy is!

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 13 Sep 22 - 09:25 AM

I remember a few years back asking someone I’d known through folk music for years where he was from originally. He was very Welsh sounding and Welsh first language and I was quite surprised when he said Manchester. Apparently his mother had moved to Manchester before he was born and he spent his early years living in a Welsh community there.

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Sep 22 - 07:19 AM

Accents are mysteriously tenacious. When I'm advising my husband (in English) about his health and well-being on his weekend visits to me, I suddenly find myself speaking with an Irish accent. This must be because I'm channelling my Irish mother!
And when I'm a bit cross, I can suddenly sound rather 'Cockney' (from my childhood in Middlesex during the fifties).
I also tend to speak to people who have a distinct accent by subconsciously copying them. There's a Geordie chap down the road who's delightful, and I find myself saying, "Eeeh!" "Haway!" etc. (My father was a Geordie).
Lastly, there's a Scots lady who walks her dogs past my house, and I break into Broad Glasgae when talking to her. Luckily she laughs, and doesn't assume I'm taking the mickey.
As a small child I often spoke to my astonished mother in a strange language which I told her was "African". Premonition?
I absolutely love accents and languages.

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 22 - 04:39 AM

I haven't lived in the north of England since I was 18 and I'm now 71. My Lancashire accent is as strong as ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 13 Sep 22 - 03:54 AM

Well I am going to the National Dialect Weekend in October in Shap even though I don't speak in a dialect myself. Very educational!

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Sep 22 - 03:10 AM

Years ago (pipes up the garrulous old lady) voices on the BBC (radio and later the TV) were always speaking in Received Pronunciation, known as RP. Lately, regional accents and personal 'mispronunciations' are permitted. Now, after studying Phonetics and Linguistics as part of my Master of Arts degree, I've grown to love quirky speech, accents, idioms, even mispronunciations etc. If everyone spoke like the RP Robot, it would be rather boring.
And language has always 'evolved' over the centuries. We don't speak as Shakespeare might have done.
Living in Norfolk, I'm fascinated by the locals' funny speech. As I was in Glasgow when I lived there.
I'm trying nowadays to be less snobbish, and to stop feeling 'superior' merely because oi talk proper!!

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Sep 22 - 05:57 AM

This has been going on for years in the US. I believe it is increasing use of the glottal stop among young folks. I usedto call it "swallowing the 'T'"

e.g.'Accounting' is pronouced "Accon'in"

And it has made it onto US Public Radio.

I reflected that this was the cocknification of the airwaves.

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Sep 22 - 04:45 AM

Shurely not, Miss Moneypenny?

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Acorn4
Date: 06 Sep 22 - 04:42 AM

Maybe they's all been watching Sean Connery films?

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 06 Sep 22 - 04:26 AM

And the number of times I hear decayed instead of decade.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: fat B****rd
Date: 06 Sep 22 - 04:01 AM

Oo sez ??

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Sep 22 - 04:53 PM

I am not a "sarf Londoner" thank goodness. I speak properly.

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 22 - 09:00 AM

"It's the BBC letting in regionals who cannot speak properly!!!"

What, as opposed to you sarf Landoners?

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 22 - 08:52 AM

Then there are those words ending in a y sound that are pronounced with the ending eee. Listen to the news correspondents tonight and you'll hear it 20 times. Yes, it's going downhill. Or should I say deteriating...

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Sep 22 - 08:49 AM

It's the BBC letting in regionals who cannot speak properly!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Sep 22 - 08:38 AM

”It's not "Nottinham". It's "No'ingem".”

No Doug, the announcer pronounced the t’s correctly. They pronounced it ‘Nottin’am’, omitting the g and the h. I’m used to hearing the glottal stop - the local kids talk about, for instance, a par’y or a ta’oo - but I’m talking here about our national broadcasting organisation failing to maintain standards.

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Sep 22 - 08:31 AM

I have considerable (sixty years plus) experience with microphones and their use. It’s not the microphones, it’s their pronunciation.

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 05 Sep 22 - 08:31 AM

It's not "Nottinham". It's "No'ingem".

I find missing 't's in the middle of words really irritating. My daughter does it all the time. Now it's often heard on the BBC. At the same time, I don't get too upset about the final 'g' being left off "-ing" words, which probably means that I do all the time without thinking.

But, yes, the BBC, while celebrating regional accents, should guard against sloppy speech.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Sep 22 - 08:10 AM

Maybe, only maybe, it has something to do with microphones.
A hard s can sometimes whistle while a sh does not?

Subject: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Sep 22 - 08:03 AM

For some time now, the temperature of the contents of my bladder has been rising, hearing ‘st’ pronounced by BBC presenters as ‘sht’- so ‘street’ becomes ‘shtreet’, ‘student’ becomes ‘shtudent’, ‘strong’ becomes ‘shtrong’ etc. But last night boiling point was finally achieved when I heard a continuity-announcer not only refer to a programme containing ‘shtrong’ language, but also refer to two of our major cities as ‘Nottinam’ and ‘Birminam’.

I understand that language evolves, but is this how? Really? WT actual F?