Since I've stopped gigging....

Subject: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 May 23 - 05:56 PM

I've stopped losing capo's.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 May 23 - 06:15 PM

Since I've stopped gigging, my harmonicas last a lot longer...

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 24 May 23 - 06:59 PM

I've had a few day's rest! No more queues on the motorway, No more motorway night closures, no more naff food drastically overpriced, no more hotel rooms with loud door slamming at night, no more gobshite motorway police, no more overpriced diesel, no more lying Sat Nav directions, no more hunting for parking places, no more humping of instruments and bags and cases, no more back aches from driving, no more desperate power naps in a lay by, no more holding on for ages for a toilet, no more midnight feasts on crisps and pop because that's all the machine sells, no more cups of tea with imitation milk, no more insane diversions round bloody road works, no more idiots undertaking you and shouting abuse because you are only doing the prescribed 70 mph, no more barmpot HGV drivers boxing you in, no more hidden speed cameras without speed signs anywhere, no more idiots signalling left and turning right, no more kamikaze bike riders with a death wish, no more bus drivers with shit for brains pulling out without any warning, no more temporary traffic lights stuck on red for half an hour, no more variable speed limits and lane closures, no more flashing road signs about obstructions that have been removed several hours ago, but worst of all the very worst of all, the most terrible thing imaginable, NO MORE MUSIC!!! Thank God I'm back on the road soon.
I wouldn't miss it for the world.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 May 23 - 07:25 PM

"no more idiots undertaking you and shouting abuse because you are only doing the prescribed 70 mph"

So get out of the bloody middle lane, tit! (only kidding!)

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 25 May 23 - 01:11 AM

I had a gig Tuesday night, since then i have been trying to prevent slugs from eating my vegetables

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 May 23 - 02:06 AM

looking back I should have got an award - 'For services to the Shubb family.'

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 25 May 23 - 03:59 AM

re stopping 'gigging'-

Did you hear about the folk singer who won ten million pounds on the lottery? He was asked if it would change his life...

he replied 'no, I'll just carry on doing gigs till it's all gone'.

ps I hate that GIG word- it used to be a word for an event (noun) and not an activity (verb)- I much prefer 'touring' or doing bookings'- is it me?

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: gillymor
Date: 25 May 23 - 10:04 AM

I lost 3 or 4 Shubbs before I got in the habit of clipping them to the headstock.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 May 23 - 10:31 AM

Agreed on gig, Jim. Not keen on session either, or, worse, "seisiún," an in-crowd word. I suppose we have to call these things something. It's a bit like words for sex parts or sex activities, for which there seem to be no nice words. End of whimsy.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 May 23 - 11:16 AM

I'm not sure I ever 'toured'- apart from one occasion when I went on one of Mike Storey's Magical Mystery Tours - back in the 1970's when I won a country and westerm comp. oganised by Marlboro fags.
No...they were definitely gigs.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST
Date: 25 May 23 - 02:26 PM

I am happy to call them gigs or bookings.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: RTim
Date: 25 May 23 - 04:50 PM

Since I have stopped gigging....even sing arounds....I have forgotten my Repertoire...!!
I am getting old to boot.

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,DrWord
Date: 25 May 23 - 05:39 PM

Loved?? Dow’s rant.
AND his conclusion :)
Dennis

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 May 23 - 07:40 AM

fortunately I never was very populat, so I don't really miss the audiences and their wonderful support. I just sort of inflicted myself, hither and thus.

At last I have found an appreciative audience - me!

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 26 May 23 - 12:22 PM

I'm halfway there: given up on one of the ceilidh bands (yes, we did gigs!) Too much effort clearing out the back of the car, folding seats down, humping the keyboard and stand in, get to rehearsal place - no parking available, double park to offload keyboard and stand, carry them down 4 steep steps, drive around the block 3 times to find parking place two streets away, walk back to rehearsal place. Reverse all of the above when rehearsal is finished. Gigs are usually in City Centre, with even less parking, double yellow lines, tradesmen's entrance 4 floors below the function room, etc. Noise levels intolerable from all these over-excited people: just can't hack it any more.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 26 May 23 - 07:00 PM

It has seen off many a good musician Bogle. You have to REALLY want to do the job or you'll be off in a few years because it has never really been a source of gainful employment. 95% of Folk acts do something else as well. Private tuition, or some form of self-employment. The alternative is endless foreign tours to earn the dosh, whether it be Folk or any other style of music. There comes a point, as Martyn Wyndham Read once told me, that you decide to enjoy what you have achieved. It stops mattering how many gigs you do and becomes a choice of where you want to go and just be happy, breaking even financially. That is a rather comfortable place to be.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST
Date: 27 May 23 - 02:52 AM

well said, Nick.
Performing is to some extent addictive, but the perfomance has to be a pleasant experience, so to be able to pick and choose as I do these days is priority number one
Fleetwood folk club on the last occasion was not a pleasant experience for me, the organiser was a prick, last minute accomodation problems so AT THE AGE OF 67 i was forced to walk round Blackpool and catch an early morning train or and coach,some piullock called winstanley.
To be fair 99.9 percent of organisers have been hospitable.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: G-Force
Date: 27 May 23 - 03:10 AM

... my fingertips are lovely and soft.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST
Date: 27 May 23 - 03:35 AM

I remember once staying at the house of Fred Rooke, a charming man who owned a terrier on this occasion, the dog had the runs and on my way to morning breakfast, i just only avoided said dogs offerings.
Fred had provided a wonderful breakfast, under the circumstances i had difficulty eating it, Fred was a lovely man, unlike the prick from fleetwood

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 27 May 23 - 03:47 AM

Then there was the occasion when I was sound asleep and the lady of the house entered my room, kind of imitating a sleep walker, her husband was in the next room.
I was not interested,and ushered her out and blockaded my bedroom door.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 27 May 23 - 04:42 AM

I tend not to stay with organisers as you say 99.9% are lovely, but I usually have people I know within striking distance. That said I will give you a tip that works for me and was passed on by Bob Fox. Book a Travel Lodge months in advance for a reasonable price. Leave early-ish in the morning, get to the hotel about 3 or 4 pm, get your head down for an hour or two and have a bite to eat, then make your way to and from the gig. Then get back home or on to the next gig in the same way. You are then independent of any problems described above. The Boston Hotel is good in Fleetwood, I've stayed there with my wife. (I actually sang there with Fred Jordan once!)

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 27 May 23 - 05:30 AM

I've never depended on folk clubs or festivals for a living, just working to live till age 44, then off to Ireland to do what we both really wanted, a goat/sheep smallholding subsidised by playing in pubs 4/5 nights a week - great fun....

   Short UK folk club/festival trips were largely arranged around visits to family and friends and a decent financial position helps greatly in making choices and I did- never been to Fleetwood may I say...

   Our travels brought us to Galloway 5 ears ago & Covid forced an end to ''GIGS'' but I'm still playing music & enjoying it- any 'folk' stuff is at a distance, but I got a decent 'moothie' during Covid & now have a captive audience in the form of five yowes.
   So there is life after ''GIGGING'', maybe not as we know it, Jim, but OK by us... baa humbug

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 27 May 23 - 04:52 PM

> 95% of Folk acts do something else as well.

I understand that that's true of most jazz musicians as well, to the extent that some have been known to call what they do for a living as "the day gig".

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 27 May 23 - 07:35 PM

So for all travelling musicians, two possibly three places to eat that will set you up for the day and require not much in the evening to see you through to the gig. Firstly on the Salisbury to M5 A road. Try Choppers Café. Brilliant Breakfast is served here. The Chippenham Pit Stop has good reports, but the best truck stop, that every tramper looks forward to is the A1 Stadium Café at Colsterworth (Grantham) on the A1. I can eat one more potato than a pig, but the portion size beats me. Take a look on YouTube. The prices are brilliant, I don't know how they do it. Colsterworth Travelodge is an ideal stopover for most home counties gigs south, or Leeds Bradford Manchester gigs North. The A1 beats the M1 any day. If you are knocking your pipe out gigging, make it easy on yourself, and have some reward food. If you are stuck on the M5 North, try 'The Good Breakfast' on Sedgemoor services, and various others as well. For the most part, keep clear of the other junk food outlets though. I find it helps to reduce the pressure of the road, and gives you something to look forward to other than the gig.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 28 May 23 - 01:28 AM

Thankyou, Nick.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 23 - 03:12 AM

I find Wetherspoons,.. ok, refills of coffee and tea for nowt, food passable

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 28 May 23 - 03:17 AM

however, Wetherspoons use Palm oil, which imo is a negative

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 28 May 23 - 05:05 AM

Unfortunately, Wetherspoons disagrees with me.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 28 May 23 - 06:29 AM

and me! I got fed up with barely lukewarm food. Are you Vegan or vegetarian RJM? I've been vegetarian for years and feel much better generally. You can get veggie food at all of the cafes I mentioned. All of this is important when touring, and one less pressure. I think the thread has drifted a bit, and become a litany of ideas to make gigging easier rather than stopping (and rediscovering your lost capos) My fault Sorry.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 28 May 23 - 10:36 AM

> Wetherspoons use Palm oil

It could be worse: rape seed oil has a distinct and repulsive aftertaste, but happens to be cheaper. It used to only be rated fit for use as industrial lubricant, and as far as I'm concerned it should never have been cleared for human consumption. I love mushrooms (to the point that Herself accuses me of being a hobbit), but I positively refuse to eat mushrooms fried in machine oil.

End of rant.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 28 May 23 - 11:01 AM

Mushroom fanatic. Oyster/Japanese/King you name it. Try oyster mushrooms
deep-fried in batter.    Sorry, Al!    I'm doing it again.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: Bob Hitchcock
Date: 28 May 23 - 11:19 AM

Since I stopped giging I noticed there is a woman sitting on my couch, she says she is my wife and we have been married for the past 25 years. She seems quite nice.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 May 23 - 05:38 PM

Yes its an odd business - - why is 'road food' in England quite so horrid. I think it got off to a bad start when all the first motor-stops were owned by Fortes in the 1960's.

I often think that woman who comes on telly advising other hoteliers has a right cheek - her family having vandalised our tums for years.

Mind you we started from a low point - I can remember when chicken and mushroom pukka pies where looked upon as an exciting innovation.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 28 May 23 - 06:58 PM

I think you have to be an experienced tramper to know where to stop. Fortunately, my son-in-law was a full-time HGV tramper, and put me on to some good stops. I would love to see the overpriced Moto/Welcome break/ and the notorious Road Thief Whoops sorry that's Road Chef get boycotted, and only used for rest breaks. It did happen once when they attempted to get serve your self salad bar priced by weight. The majority refused to pay and walked away. You never saw a sign come down so quickly. It's worth noting that most major junctions have a supermarket with a café within striking distance and reasonably priced fuel. (If there is such a thing).
The loneliest feeling in the world is driving through the night, seeing lights on in the bedrooms of houses, and knowing residents are laying down to sleep and longing for your own bed. The very best feeling is seeing bright sunshine break over the motorway, with a couple of miles to go, and watching red-eyed commuters rushing off to be wage slaves for the day. Yes Al, it is an odd business.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST
Date: 29 May 23 - 03:17 AM

I travel every where in the uk by public transport now, but years ago early 1990s i had a small camper van i became an expert on lay bys and transport cafes, the advantage of using public transport is you know the real cost of travelling, rather than just factoring in the cost of petrol and forgetting running maintenance costs

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST
Date: 29 May 23 - 04:54 AM

Free travel (inculding trains) for resident pensioners is universal in Ireland, although seems to now be under attack from the usual sources.

There is a similar arrangement in England (not sure about Wales) and in Scotland too with the enhancement of free travel for resident under 22s and also on Citylink coaches (Glasgow- Aberdeen, Inverness- Edinburgh etc)- inter-city express coach travel for pensioners is not available in England as far as I know.

Seniors in UK can get a discounted railcard for a fee, free travel on trains is only available in Ireland, although there are local schemes for discount train travel in Scotland & maybe elsewhere?

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 29 May 23 - 05:16 AM

> why is 'road food' in England quite so horrid

Partly it's a holdover from WW2 rationing, which ruined the English palate for good an' all; partly that it used to be a legal requirement that motorway stops were explicitly forbidden from enticing traffic onto the motorway (hence also their full-fat prices). But mostly I suspect it's the well-known English allergy to complaining: we've never properly recovered from the puritan Commonwealth, which featured salvation through suffering, which was systematised by the Politeness fashion which features so much in Jane Austen's work.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 29 May 23 - 09:43 AM

Blimey! WW2 the Commonwealth, and Jane Austen. I just thought I was getting my breakfast.
Interesting post about free travel, and railcards. Thanks Guest, more details if you have time.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 29 May 23 - 05:14 PM

FREE TRAVEL ON BUS, particularly useful in areas where there are no trains, example scarborough to middlesborough, you can do your guig for nowt,
with private treain companies the trick is to get it cheaper by breaking your journey, for example if you have all day to get to the gig liverppol to darlington is more expensibve than say going liverppol to leeds break journey then go leeds york, york darlington,

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 29 May 23 - 07:21 PM

Might be something to think about when my driving days are over. Thanks for that.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 30 May 23 - 01:30 AM

I can drive but choose not to drive to gigs, In Ireland driving is still a pleasure

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,mike at fleetwood
Date: 07 Jun 23 - 06:57 AM

In response to the anonymous criticism of Fleetwood Folk Club by Dick Miles on behalf of the club I know that the person who would offer accommodation on behalf of the club was unable on this occasion to do so because her husband was ill. As soon as this was known, two months before the gig, a phone call was made advising that accommodation was not available and suggesting that he arrange an alternative gig for that night as we were not able to offer an enhanced fee, or he could come for the fee arranged. This was August 22019 and an audience on 10 people did enjoy his performance but no other accommodation was available for Which Mr Winstanley was exceedingly apologetic.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 07 Jun 23 - 08:42 AM

INCORRECT,A phone call was not made to me two months before the gig.
in fact i received a notification a week before basically telling me that i had to pay for my own b and b in blackpool.
my original fee was to include the club providing accomodation, no accomodation was provided.
i was informed at short notice at the change of conditions of contract to which i had not agreed to, no offer was made by the club to pay for the cost of my accommodation.
Because i travel from ireland my flights and rail travel are booked months ahead.,   my expenses and the low fee were included as part of a tour.
Arranging an alternative gig as part of another tour was a non starter, but the whole tone of the club organiser was   was take it or leaveit it.all this at very short notice
I did the gig otherwise i would have been even more out of pocket.
The whole way the club organisers conducted the affair
was reminiscent of he lord of the manor ordering the serfs around
I had previously played this club many times before and had no problem with the previous organisers or the accomodation

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 07 Jun 23 - 10:08 AM

CORRESPONDENCE Fleetwood Folk Club
        
Apr 17, 2018, 3:52?PM
        
to me

Hi


We have a bit of a problem regarding next months gig, we are no longer in a position to be able to offer accommodation to our artists. Financially we can't afford to pay for a B&B either as we are only getting around 10 people to our guest nights so we are losing money every month as well.


There are some relatively cheap B&Bs available in Blackpool which would be a tram ride away from Fleetwood and if you would like we can book you in to one if you are still planning on coming to Fleetwood.


Moving forward we won't be able to book guests in the future that need accommodation and we understand if this changes you wanting to play here in May. We know you would have been coming from Ireland and we hope that this isn't a huge inconvenience for you.


Thanks" quote

So some facts and the truth,is i was notified approx a moNth before gig, the conditions of employment were changed without agreement, no offer was made to pay for my accomodation.Iwas travelling from Ireland

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jun 23 - 10:23 AM

08:42 AM "in fact i received a notification a week before"

10:08 AM "the truth,is i was notified approx a moNth before gig"

Which is it?

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 07 Jun 23 - 10:37 AM

My first reply was from memory, after going back through e mails
about 3 weeks.,
I did not receive any phone call 2 months before.
However the conditions pf employment were changed without any offer to pay for my accomodation, and too late for me to cancel and there was no offer of refunding my gig fee., bearing in mind i am travelling from another country, I think it is the responsibilty of the organiser to organise alternative accomodation, or to pay for amodest b and b
is it your concern are you planning to do a gig there? do you do gigs?

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 07 Jun 23 - 10:45 AM

on other occasions when an inconvenience has arisen for an organiser they have paid for a travel lodge and because i travel by public transport have organised a lift to such a place, THAT IS THE CORRECT DECENT THING TO DO.
Not change the conditions of employment without agreed concent

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jun 23 - 10:53 AM

Just clarifying, Dick. Always worthwhile in my opinion. I recall a similar situation at Swinton due to unclear communications

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 07 Jun 23 - 11:01 AM

I can see that the withdrawal of accommodation was a problem when you had flights and tickets booked. Effectively you had to go on that date or lose money. I get that. What puzzles me is why on earth did you not get on the phone with anybody in the Northwest to arrange somewhere to stay, myself included. I'll bet Dave the Gnome would have done his best for you, he has for me in the past. With all of your friends surely somebody would have helped. You had a week/month to do it. By the same token, what was wrong with the club doing the same? Surely a regular at the club could have helped, or maybe even the pub itself. I can think of a number of people who would have helped in a crisis, at least two in Fleetwood, and more in Blackpool, yet more again in Preston and so it goes. I fully agree that it was the club's responsibility in this instance, and a bit of cooperation would not have gone amiss. It's alright for me I drive and can get anywhere, and with the bus service in Fleetwood, I'm amazed you even got to Blackpool. No sleep and at the beginning of a tour. Not in the least funny.

Subject: RE: Since I've stopped gigging....
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 23 - 11:22 AM

Dave, no Ged Robinson Todd, the Swinton organiser is an absolute gentleman, never had any accomodation problems with him. at some time in the future i would be happy to play his club.