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Origins/Meaning: Follow the Drinking Gourd

DigiTrad:
FOLLOW THE DRINKING GOURD


Related threads:
Chords Req: Follow the Drinking Gourd (14)
Folklore: Website on the 'Drinking Gourd' song (34) (closed)
Scholastic/Folkways Recordings-We shall overcome (5)
(origins) Origin: Follow the Drinking Gourd (Burl Ives?) (17)
Chords Req: Follow the Drinking Gourd (11)
Follow The Drinking Gourd: 2001 (6)
Story: Follow The Drinking Gourd II (64)
Story: The Drinking Gourd I (62)
(origins) Origin: Follow the Drinking Gourd (5)
Tune Req: Follow the Drinking Gourd (9) (closed)


In Mudcat MIDIs:
Follow the Drinking Gourd (from Lomax, American Ballads and Songs, 1934 - taken from the article by H.B. Parks)
Follow the Drinking Gourd (Weavers) (from The Weavers Song Book)


GUEST 07 Mar 05 - 07:11 AM
wysiwyg 07 Mar 05 - 06:15 AM
NH Dave 07 Mar 05 - 03:39 AM
Greg F. 06 Mar 05 - 11:33 PM
wysiwyg 06 Mar 05 - 08:34 PM
Greg F. 06 Mar 05 - 08:19 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Mar 05 - 09:58 PM
Azizi 05 Mar 05 - 09:31 PM
Lighter 05 Mar 05 - 09:21 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Mar 05 - 08:56 PM
Azizi 05 Mar 05 - 08:10 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Mar 05 - 05:19 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Mar 05 - 05:08 PM
wysiwyg 05 Mar 05 - 01:21 PM
Azizi 05 Mar 05 - 01:11 PM
wysiwyg 05 Mar 05 - 09:47 AM
Azizi 05 Mar 05 - 01:28 AM
wysiwyg 04 Mar 05 - 06:28 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 04 Mar 05 - 05:50 PM
wysiwyg 04 Mar 05 - 05:42 PM
AllisonA(Animaterra) 04 Mar 05 - 01:21 PM
Azizi 04 Mar 05 - 02:37 AM
Azizi 04 Mar 05 - 02:31 AM
Joe Offer 04 Mar 05 - 02:28 AM
Joe Offer 04 Mar 05 - 01:41 AM
wysiwyg 05 Oct 01 - 11:14 PM
wysiwyg 04 Oct 01 - 11:23 PM
GUEST,gloriafs@yahoo.com 04 Oct 01 - 10:37 PM
masato sakurai 02 Oct 01 - 07:23 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Oct 01 - 03:23 PM
raredance 02 Oct 01 - 02:01 PM
GUEST 02 Oct 01 - 10:38 AM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Oct 01 - 07:13 AM
raredance 02 Oct 01 - 12:34 AM
GUEST,Frank 01 Oct 01 - 07:28 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Oct 01 - 05:07 PM
masato sakurai 01 Oct 01 - 05:00 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Oct 01 - 04:54 PM
wysiwyg 01 Oct 01 - 04:25 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Oct 01 - 04:21 PM
GUEST,Ponytrax 01 Oct 01 - 04:10 PM
wysiwyg 01 Oct 01 - 03:13 PM
masato sakurai 01 Oct 01 - 02:48 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Oct 01 - 02:19 PM
wysiwyg 01 Oct 01 - 02:08 PM
masato sakurai 01 Oct 01 - 01:27 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Oct 01 - 07:03 AM
wysiwyg 01 Oct 01 - 01:29 AM
GUEST,Fred 01 Oct 01 - 12:53 AM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Sep 01 - 08:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 07:11 AM

Actually the drinking gourd was the Little Dipper. Which if you look at the top gives you the Pole Star, or north star. The big dipper represented the drinking vessel of the slave owners and the gourd, the drinking vessel of the slave.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 06:15 AM

Greg F, no one at Mudcat needs to be anointed by anyone to express a personal opinion when a suggestion is raised.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: NH Dave
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 03:39 AM

The Weavers and many other groups singing songs they had dug out of folk history had two problems with singing these songs. It's all well and good to say the song is a folk song or attribute to that famous writer of songs, Annonymous, but if they performed a song that resembled something sounding too much like what others were singing they might find themselves in trouble for infringing on another's copyright. Additionally if they modified a song to fit the expectations of their audience, and didn't copyright it, others could use that tune, words, and arrangement and sing it for pay, either in a concert or by writing it down and selling it as a song sheet.

Many of the songs and tunes the Weavers sang had been changed to fit their audience, and once changed were copyright under the non de plume of Paul Campbell to protect a product of their labor and to allow them to sing them without any problems from others singing a similar version of the song. Since a part of the Weavers income resulted from the records and song books they sold, protecting their creative talents made sense. You have to remember that back in 1950, the Weavers were on the hit parade with recordings of On Top of Old Smokey, and Good Night Irene, so this was an important considration.

I'm not sure how much the McCarthy and the House Unamerican Activities Committe's investiagations had to do with using this pseudonym, as the Weavers were using it before that whole ruckus started. It did put Pete in a lot of trouble since he told McCarthy and the HUAC that they had no right to ask him what groups he was a member, and whom he saw at meetings of said groups. The troubles swirled around him for some time, which resulted in him being banned from appearing on any comercial radio or TV station, and alsoI understand that he withdrew himself from the Weavers to reduce the fall out on them and their means of earning a living.

Pete eventually was exonerated of any real crimes against America and the HUAC, but the power of the Little Blach Book listing every employee of the entertainment business who had either refused to testify or had been linked to a dubious organization lasted for a long time, and kept him from working on commercial radio and TV. Sincde our Public Radio and TV stations were funded by contributions from their members, as opposed to commercial advertisments, he found a place where he could still perform.

Pete Seeger used to precede his rendition of Kisses Sweeter than Wine by explaining that the song originated as a song of an Irishman bemoaning the loss of his cow, sing a verse or so to demonstrate that the older song wasn't commercially valuable, and then note that they had written new words and speeded up the tune a bit to produce the song he was about to sing. Of course groups popularized their version of many songs that were still well remembered by their critics, and were roundly damned for these "improvements."

Dave


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 11:33 PM

My mistake. Didn't realize that god had annointed you spokesperson for "The Mudcat Community" to make pronouncements about what "the site" and "the community" ought and ought not to do.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 08:34 PM

That's the royal "we" of course.

I see you've gone from baiting me in BS threads to doing it in the music threads, Greg F. The "we" in my post refers to the wonderful team of people here at Mudcat who did the hard work on the spirituals permathread, and to "we" the MUDCAT COMMUNITY.

Lurk off now like a nice boy, now, hm?

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 08:19 PM

I'm satisfied with the usefulness of what we have organized here...

That's the royal "we" of course.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 09:58 PM

Just noticed that I attributed Parks article (and composition?) to Dobie. The volume "Follow de Drinkin' Gou'd" was edited by J. Frank Dobie, but he was author of only two of the articles, "More Ballads and Songs of the Frontier Folk," and (as co-author) "Pioneer Folk Tales."
No excuse for my sloppiness.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: Azizi
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 09:31 PM

Q,

LOL!

I'm a big fan and active user of libraries..But in this computer age, it's nice to have access to so much information at home.

For example, when the word "Lomax" is put in the 'Lyrics and Knowledge Search' engine Mudcat uses, it yields over 120 songs and 2276 mentions on Mudcat. Of course, I imagine that number of mentions changes with each mention of the name and of a song or different version of a song that found in any of the Lomaxs' books or recordings.{like Drinking Gourd}.

It seems to me that it's better to read books about a subject along with the piece meal comments and articles that are posted online.
I count myself lucky to live near the main branch of the library in my city, and several branches of that library.

And everyday I am thankful that I have a home computer.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 09:21 PM

Scholars are beginning to think that Praks, the "collector," wrote this haunting song himself not too long before 1928.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 08:56 PM

Azizi, glad you got some results inserting those names in Mudcat, but I meant a public library with real books.
(Which shows my age- I still prefer paper to electronic pages)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: Azizi
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 08:10 PM

Q,

Thanks for that information.

At first I wasn't sure what you meant by "library" in your comment:
"It would be easier to start at the library, using Talley, White, Odum, Perrow, Scarborough, Noble, Parrish, Epstein, Lomax, Botkin, Courlander, etc.

But I put one of those authors/editors into the 'Lyrics and Knowledge Search' box so I assume that this is the library you were referring to..

And it does yield some interesting results.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 05:19 PM

Azizi, the secular "Caroline," from Allen's Slave Songs, is in the grouping @creole.
As noted above the groupings at Mudcat are capricious.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 05:08 PM

At one time it was customary to append @civil war, @spirituals, @gospel, @hymn, @slavery, @minstrel, etc., to songs in the DT. There was never any direction on this, so one would have to look up several of these groupings. Moreover, many songs never reach the DT, and are scattered in the various threads.
Secular slave songs would be under a variety of headings. Many would be found only by the title or a phrase and have not been grouped. In other words one would have to know the song or its content to find it.
It would be easier to start at the library, using Talley, White, Odum, Perrow, Scarborough, Noble, Parrish, Epstein, Lomax, Botkin, Courlander, etc.
For the great majority of these, it is not known if they were were sung during slavery times, or developed after emancipation.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 01:21 PM

To reiterate, I'm satisfied with the usefulness of what we have organized here, and I would not be in favor of attracting additional attention to it by offering it as a print source.

~S~


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: Azizi
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 01:11 PM

THREAD DRIFT

Susan, it seems that both our comments may have been unclear and misunderstood by each other.

My comment on 04 Mar 05 - 02:31 AM was:

"I'm wondering if Mudcat has an index of threads listed under different subjects..for instance a thread on Secular slave songs..or does the Search and knowledge box fit that purpose? If so, it would be interesting if some funding could be found to provide print versions of that to schools.."

You will note that I wrote that I was wondering if any index of Mudcat subjects could be PROVIDED to schools {not sold to schools}.
Also you will not that there is no mention of SELLING Mudcat threads or indexes to schools, universities, or anywhere in my 05 Mar 05 - 01:28 AM post either.

I am glad to learn from your last post that some schools are using Mudcat as an educational resource. I'd love many more to do so.

I'm also glad to know that I misunderstood the last sentence in your 04 Mar 05 - 05:42 PM post.

I consider Mudcat to be too good for us to keep it to ourselves. And it appears that you agree.

Peace and best wishes,
Azizi


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 09:47 AM

Azizi, that is not at all what I meant. Perhaps you are not aware that educators (ans students) DO use this site. "Closed" resource? It is to laugh. Humbly proud of our work, yes. Open to the world, yes. Helpful in education, yes. Of COURSE!

I responded to your suggestion about for a commercially available printed resource and attempted to address questions you raised about index resources. Sorry if I was so unclear that you could take it wrong.

~S~


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: Azizi
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 01:28 AM

Susan,

I believe that the last two paragraphs of your comment on 04 Mar 05 - 05:42 PM are in response to my comment that "it [this thread] further fuels my conviction that many Mudcat threads should be used as supplemental educational resources in schools and universities etc. The shame of it is that so few people are probably doing so.."

I still maintain that many Mudcat threads could be excellent learning supplements-in part because of the information found therein and also because they are examples of this newly emerging literary and communicative genre of blog posts. Online discussion forums such as Mudcat also provide information on how people separated by miles and having never seen each other [and possibly may never see each other]exchange communication.

So IMHO, the fact that we [meaning 'Catters] do not have [or may not have]the authoritive answer about particular subjects is largely beside the point.

I want to be clear about this-I personally am not interested in printing Mudcat threads and circulating them in schools, universities, or community groups. Doing such a thing without prior permission from Max, the owner of this site, and/or every Member posting in that thread seems like it might be a copyright violation.

However, given the way the world is and given current attitudes about copying online information for people's "personal use", I'm sure that somebody [a number of somebodies actually] has already and will in the future copy partial or complete Mudcat threads.

What I AM advocating is spreading the word about Mudcat.

I still want more people to know about this rich resource.

I particularly want more people of color to know about, participate in, and benefit from this rich resource.

I have and will continue to alert people to this site by casual mention of it to friends and acquaintances, by emails, and by formally mentioning it, when appropriate, in any public presentations that I give.

I hope other 'Catters are/will continue to spread the word about Mudcat.

I'm not sure what the spirit of folks who created this site was, but I would hope that they didn't want it to evolve into a closed resource for those lucky enough to be invited in, or for those who by happen chance stumbled across it.

Azizi


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 06:28 PM

Perhaps it is partly the impossibility of nailing down the "true" origin of any of the songs, balanced against the deceptive recency of their currency, that makes the whole genre so fascinating.

I'm studying Shaker music these days, for Lent, and it's very interesting that they documented SO MUCH of what was freely and abundantly created in song. Yet even tho the notes were dutifully transcribed and preserved, there is quite a bit of scholarship suggesting that whatever tempo, mode, and time signature they were scribed in-- that ain't at all how singers SANG 'em. Reasons range from folk process-type things to the changing stylistic preferences of the higher-ups, who from time to time attempted to standardize some of the musical conventions of the group, with little success at the grass-roots level where the creative process was at work.

I've learned not to worry so much about all that, and just SING them-- both the slave spirituals and related songs, and the Shaker spirituals. And now that I am into the Shaker corpus, it's wonderful to discover how alike these two particular forms of "spiritual" turn out to be, in the hearing and in the singing.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 05:50 PM

As posted in another thread, this song is controversial. The words were collected by J. Frank Dobie in 1928 at College Station, Texas, from "an old man."
Whether this is a valid, old song or something devised by someone at the University (Texas A & M) is uncertain.
Also, as posted elsewhere, the song, if valid, would be for exceedingly dumb slaves. The slave narratives and other records of slavery times suggest a higher degree of sophistication among the slaves and word of mouth communication of specific information about possible escape routes.
Parks (in the article posted above by 'Guest'), repeats the anecdote about a peg leg man, a story which, following emancipation, was spread widely and appears in the song, and also relates the song to a probable spiritual fragment, "Follow the Drinkin' Gou'd," collected in North Carolina by Parks and to "Foller the Risen Lawd," collected by Parks in Texas from members of the troupe of a 'colored revivalist.'

A nice little story, but impossible to document.

The same volume of the Publications of the Texas Folk-Lore Society, No. 7, 1928, "Follow de Drinkin' Gou'd," has a very good article by Mary Virginia Bales, "Sone Negro Folk-Songs of Texas," some with music, pp. 85-112; and another by N. J. H. Smith, "Six New Negro Folk-Songs with Music," pp. 113-118.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 05:42 PM

What secular slave songs we have, have been included in the Spirituals Permathread, since so many of the work songs were religious in text but were used at work, and since coded meanings are hard to untangle at this late date. Authors' print collections often lump them together in one book (altho in categories), so I think we might as well put them all together in one place. However, as they were posted, whatever was known about their type or origin was included in the thread, and more can always be added-- nature of the medium.

In education settings, the Cleveland index of spirituals in print is considered the standard reference, altho it was INcomplete in the last edition I saw. I have a personal-use index that goes beyond the books that Cleveland included, and of course, Cleveland does not include Mudcat as a print source and thus, whatever the Spirituals Permathread team found from rare sources and posted, may very well NOT be in Cleveland.

I'm satisfied with the usefulness of what we have organized here, and I would not be in favor of attracting additional attention to it by offering it as a print source. It's a resource that was created as a free part of Mudcat, and it should stay that way. Nor do I consider our work here authoritative enough to be cited formally-- it was compiled as a resource for singers, more than as a resource for researchers.

We always welcome folks adding to it, and it will evolve accordingly, but hopefully in the spirit in which it was created by the folks who worked on it first.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 01:21 PM

Isn't it great? I'm fascinated with this song, too. And my students LOVE it! We sang it two months ago in music class and they still hum it to themselves almost every day. And they're always reporting that they saw the Big (or Little) Dipper- and how safe it made them feel, because of this song and its association wtih freedom.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 02:37 AM

Correction..FWI was supposed to be FYI {for your information]
Sometimes I have fun making up acronyms, but that was just a plain ole typo..

Again, this is a FASCINATING, RICH Thread!!! Thanks all!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 02:31 AM

Joe, thanks for refreshing this thread.

I've found it to be VERY interesting. This is not only an example of why I love Mudcat, but it further fuels my conviction that many Mudcat threads should be used as supplemental educational resources in schools and universities etc. The shame of it is that so few people are probably doing so..

I'm wondering if Mudcat has an index of threads listed under different subjects..for instance a thread on Secular slave songs..or does the Search and knowledge box fit that purpose? If so, it would be interesting if some funding could be found to provide print versions of that to schools..[this is just stream of consciousness thought, but I'm wondering what you think of that idea-Joe-and others..]

BTW, upstream someone posted that 'Pinky' was the name of the slave spirit who haunted a house as he was murdered in a safe room of the Underground Railroad..

FWI, 'Pinky' was used as a nickname or name for a light complexioned male or female...I believe that it was the name of the woman who 'passed for white' in the movie 'Imitation of Life'. That nickname is still somewhat used in that context among African Americans today..

And on behalf of all my ancestors, THANK YOU for your ancestors' efforts in the Underground Railroad.

Without White support many African Americans would not have been able to successfully escape to freedom in the Northern United States and in Canada.


Azizi
    Hi, Azizi - try a DT Keyword search - on the QuickLinks dropdown menu.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: ADD Version: Follow the Drinking Gourd (Weavers)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 02:28 AM

Here's the version from the Weavers Song Book, which is almost the same as what's in the Digital Tradition.

FOLLOW THE DRINKING GOURD

CHORUS
Follow the drinking gourd, follow the drinking gourd,
For the old man is a-waitin' for to carry you to freedom,
Follow the drinking gourd.

When the sun comes back and the first quail calls,
Follow the drinking gourd.
The old man is a-waitin' for to carry you to freedom,
Follow the drinking gourd.

The river bank'll make a mighty good road,
The dead trees will show you the way.
Left foot, peg foot, traveling on,
Follow the drinking gourd.

CHORUS

Now the river ends between two hills,
Follow the drinking gourd.
There's another river on the other side,
Follow the drinking gourd.

CHORUS


The following verse is in the Digital Tradition, but not in the Weavers book:
    I thought I heard the angels say
    Follow the drinking gourd
    The stars in the heavens gonna show you the way
    Follow the drinking gourd

    CHORUS

Click to play


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Subject: RE: Origins: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 01:41 AM

There's a discussion of this song in Joe Hickerson's "Songfinder" column in the current issue of Sing Out! Magazine, Vol. 49 #1; and there's a previous discussion in Vol. 48, #4. Hickerson summarizes the research of Joel Bresler:
    The song ostensibly tells slaves from the Mobile, Alabama, vicinity the following:
    1. What time of year to leave to give them the best chance of success (winter)
    2. How to distinguish the Tombigbee River from other north/south rivers in the vicinity
    3. How to get to the Tennessee (River) once they reached the headwaters of the Tombigbee, and so forth.
    But the question remains, why hasn't the song been recorvered in the Alabama/Mississippi area from whence its road map apparently originates? So who can find such a source, or even the hymn (Follow the Risen Lord) upon which it is allegedly based.

Here's the entry from the Traditional Ballad Index:

Follow the Drinking Gourd

DESCRIPTION: A guide to slaves fleeing to freedom. Various landmarks are described, and the listeners are reminded, "For the old man is a-waiting for to carry you to freedom." Above all, they are reminded to "follow the drinking gourd."
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1928 (Texas Folklore Society)
KEYWORDS: slave freedom
FOUND IN: US
REFERENCES (8 citations):
Lomax/Lomax-AmericanBalladsAndFolkSongs, pp. 227-228, "Foller de Drinkin' Gou'd" (1 text, 1 tune)
Warner-FolkSongsAndBalladsOfTheEasternSeaboard, pp. 55-56, "The Drinking Gourd" (1 text)
Silber-SongsOfTheCivilWar, pp. 278-280, "Follow the Drinking Gourd" (1 text, 1 tune, being essentially The Weavers version)
Arnett-IHearAmericaSinging, p. 62, "Follow the Drinkin' Gourd" (1 text, 1 tune)
Greenway-AmericanFolksongsOfProtest, pp. 99-100, "The Drinking Gourd" (1 text, 1 tune)
Salt-BuckeyeHeritage-OhiosHistory, pp. 80-81, "Follow the Drinking Gourd" (1 text, 1 tune)
Averill-CampSongsFolkSongs, p. 310, "Follow the Drinking Gourd" (notes only)
DT, FOLGOURD

Roud #15532
RECORDINGS:
Pete Seeger, "Follow the Drinking Gourd" (on PeteSeeger46)
NOTES [20 words]: The "Drinking Gourd" is, of course, the Big Dipper, pointing north to the Ohio River, New England, Canada, and freedom. - RBW
Last updated in version 6.3
File: Arn062

Go to the Ballad Search form
Go to the Ballad Index Song List

Go to the Ballad Index Instructions
Go to the Ballad Index Bibliography or Discography

The Ballad Index Copyright 2023 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 11:14 PM

You never where something will lead, at the Mudcat.

Story: The Drinking Gourd

~S~


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 11:23 PM

See THIS THREAD for a discussion (and hopefully lyrics) on "Man Goin' Roun'."

~Susan


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Subject: Slave song: There'a a man going round takin names
From: GUEST,gloriafs@yahoo.com
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 10:37 PM

Does anyone know the words to a song that begins with, There's a man goin round takin names There's a man goin round takin names He has taken all our names and he's locked them all in chains There's a man goin round takin names

It's from slavery times and refers to the fact that all African names were changed to English names. Names in Africa told a person's village, tribe, clan, etc. So in essence, "the man" was taking away their identity. Gloria Shaner


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: masato sakurai
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 07:23 PM

rich r, thank you very much. Now I don't have to type the Parks material any more. I am thinking of getting a scanner, though. The music is reprinted as it is in the Lomaxes' American Ballads and Folk Songs (p. 227).

~Masato


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 03:23 PM

Brilliant stuff!

I'm still hoping sometime we'll get someone who can get back into the records of the Anti-Slavery movement and find out if there is any way of finding out more.


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: raredance
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 02:01 PM

the complete Parks text (minus the music score) is entered in above. As you can see Masato has already entered more than half of it by force of his own fingertips. The reference is the Dobie book cited by both Masato and McGrath. HOt Springs, NC referred to in the text is located northwest of Asheville and east of the Smoky Mountins right near the Tennessee border. Also I could find no reference to Drinkin Gourd in the Fracnk C Brown Collection of North Carolina Folklore although those volumes do contain a significant amount of African American material.

rich r


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 10:38 AM

FOLLOW THE DRINKING GOURD

By H. B. PARKS

The following story is a compilation of three incidents and an attempt to explain them. A number of years ago while a resident of Alaska I became much interested in folk-lore and consequently anything of this nature came to attract my attention quickly. I was a resident of Hot Springs, North Carolina, during the year of 1912 and had charge of the agricultural work of a large industrial school. This school owned a considerable herd of cattle, which were kept in the meadows on the tops of the Big Rich Mountains on the boundary between North Carolina and Tennessee. One day while riding through the mountains looking after this stock, I heard the following stanza sung by a little negro boy, who was picking up dry sticks of wood near a negro cabin:

Foller the drinkin' gou'd,
Foller the drinkin' gou'd;
No one know, the wise man say,
"Foller the drinkin' gou'd."

It is very doubtful if this part of the song would have attracted anyone's attention had not the old grandfather, who had been sitting on a block of wood in front of the cabin, slowly got up and, taking his cane, given the boy a sound lick across the back with the admonition not to sing that song again. This excited my curiosity and I asked the old man why he did not want the boy to sing the song. The only answer I could get was that it was bad luck. About a year later I was in the city of Louisville and, having considerable time to wait for a train, I went walking about the city. My journey brought me to the river front, and while standing there watching the wharf activities I was very much surprised to hear a negro fisherman, who was seated on the edge of the wharf, singing the same stanza on the same tune. The fisherman sang the same stanza over and over again without any variation. While I am unable to write the music that goes with this stanza, I can say that it is a jerky chant with the accented syllables very much prolonged. When I asked the fisherman what he knew about the song, he replied that he knew nothing about it; he would not even converse with me. This seemed to be very peculiar, but because of the story of bad luck told by the grandfather in North Carolina I did not question the negro further. In 1918 I was standing on the platform of the depot at Waller, Texas, waiting for a train, when, much to my surprise, I heard the familiar tune being picked on a violin and banjo and two voices singing the following words:

Foller the Risen Lawd,
Foller the Risen Lawd;
The bes'thing the Wise Man say,
"Foller the Risen Lawd."

The singers proved to be two Negro boys about sixteen years of age. When they were asked as to where they learned the song, they gave the following explanation. They said that they were musicians traveling with a colored revivalist and that he had composed this song and that they played it and used it in their revival meetings. They also said the revivalist wrote new stanzas to fit the meetings. These three incidents led me to inquire into the subject, and I was very fortunate in meeting an old Negro at College Station, Texas, who had known a great many slaves in his boyhood days. After I had gained his confidence, this man told the following story and gave the following verses of the song. He said that just before the Civil War, somewhere in the South, he was not just sure where, there came a sailor who had lost one leg and had the missing member replaced by a peg-leg. He would appear very suddenly at some plantation and ask for work as a painter or carpenter. This he was able to get at almost every place. He made friends with the slaves and soon all of the young colored men were singing the song that is herein mentioned. The peg-leg sailor would stay for a week or two at a place and then disappear. The following spring nearly all the young men among the slaves disappeared and made their way to the north and finally to Canada by following a trail that had been made by the peg-leg sailor and was held in memory by the Negroes in this peculiar song.

(music line inserted here)

1 When the sun come back,
When the firs' quail call, Foller the drinkin' gou'd.

Chorus: Foller the drinkin' gou'd,
Foller the drinkin' gou'd;
For the ole man say,
"Foller the drinkin' gou'd."

2 The riva's bank am a very good road,
The dead trees show the way,
Lef' foot, peg foot goin' on,
Foller the drinkin' gou'd.

Chorus:

3 The riva ends a-tween two hills,
Foller the drinkin' gou'd;
'Nuther riva on the other side
Follers the drinkin' gou'd.

Chorus:

4 Wha the little riva
Meet the grea' big un,
The ole man waits--
Foller the drinkin' gou'd.

Now my birthplace is in the North and I also belong to a family that took considerable part in the underground railroad movement; so I wrote about this story to the older members of the family in the North. One of my great-uncles, who was connected with the railroad movement, remembered that in the records of the Anti-Slavery Society there was a story of a peg-legged sailor, known as Peg Leg Joe, who made a number of trips through the South and induced young Negroes to run away and escape through the North to Canada. The main scene of his activities was in the country immediately north of Mobile, and the trail described in the song followed northward to the head waters of the Tombigbee River, thence over the divide and down the Tennessee River to the Ohio. It seems that the peg-legged sailor would go through the country north of Mobile and teach this song to the young slaves and show them a mark of his natural left foot and the round spot made by the peg-leg. He would then go ahead of them northward and on every dead tree or other conspicuous object he would leave a print made with charcoal or mud of the outline of a human left foot and a round spot in place of the right foot. As nearly as could be found out the last trip was made in 1859. Nothing more could be found relative to this man. The Negro at College Station said that the song had many verses which he could not remember. He quoted a number which, either by fault of memory or secret meaning, are unintelligible and are omitted. The ones given are in the phonetic form used by the College Station Negro and become rather simple when one is told that the "drinkin' gou'd" is the Great Dipper, that the "wise man" was the peg-leg sailor, and that the admonition is to go ever north, following the trail of the left foot and the peg-leg until "the grea' big un" (the Ohio) is reached, where the runaways would be met by the old sailor. The revivalist realized the power of this sing-song and made it serve his purpose by changing a few words, and in so doing pointed his followers to a far different liberty than the one the peg-leg sailor advocated.


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 07:13 AM

Not Davy Graham's arrangement, Martin Carthy's.

I think there is a big difference between making up a new song, and making a new variant of a pre-existing song, and on the basis of that claiming some ownership of the song on which you built that variant.

But that's a side issue here. I'm looking forward to seeing that article if you can get it, rich. I noticed that the versions Parks collected came from as far apart as North Carolina and Texas, which indicates that it was widely dispersed, so I'd be surprised if no one collected versions from elsewhere, assuming that there were collectors looking in the right places.


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: raredance
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 12:34 AM

The reprint of the Dobie book contains the Parks article that Masato has been citing. The original Dobie book is from 1928. I have a copy of a 1965 reprint. The Parks article is just 4 pages long. Judging from the summaries and quotes Hasato has entered, he has the entire article from a secondary source. Nevertheless, I will see if I can get a scanned copy of the whole article to post here, so Masato doesn't have to type it in paragraph by paragraph. Since the little boy's grandfather in 1912 knew the song was bad luck we can be reasonably sure that the song predates 1912. We just don't know by how much.

rich r


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 07:28 PM

This song brings into focus the issue of copyright. THe question is: when does a song become a variant of a known song or when is it re-written using only a lyric theme or a basic tune?

Having been associated with "Paul Campbell", I know that some songs that they do have been changed radically from their source.

That's because "Paul Campbell" contains songwriters.

"Delta Dawn", a popular song from years ago uses the same tune as "Come and Go With Me To That Land". There are many such examples. "The Twelth of Never" from the fifties based on "The Riddle Song".

Then there is the controversey surrounding Paul Simon's popularizing "Scarborough Fair" which some say was taken from the arrangement by Davy Graham. But the "Canticle" part was Simon's own creation.

I'm not sure but I would guess that the Weaver's version of "The Drinking Gourd" would be quite different from the source.

When does the artist re-create the song and when is it stolen? The "moral judgement" about such matters is murky im my view.

Frank


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 05:07 PM

And Follow de Drinkin' Gourd - by Frank J. Dobie, ed. - Volume VII of Publications of the Texas Folklore Society, published 2000 sounds as if it might answer a few questions. "It is doubtful if any thing more novel than H. B. Parks' 'Follow the Drinking Gourd' has ever been printed in the realm of American folklore." — J. Frank Dobie, from the Preface."


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: masato sakurai
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 05:00 PM

Parks writes about an incident when he for the first time heard the boy sing this song (no. 1) in 1912:

It is very doubtful if this part of the song would have attracted anyone's attention had not the old grandfather, who had been sitting on a block of wood in front of the cabin, slowly got up and, taking his cane, giving the boy a sound lick across the back with the admonition not to sing that song again. This excited my curiosity and I asked the old man why he did not want the boy to sing the song. The only answer I could get was that it was bad luck.

~Masato


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 04:54 PM

Here's a Spirituals bibliography which looks useful enough. And here is another

One thing struck me looking at that first version Parks gave -

Foller the drinkin' gou'd,
Foller the drinkin' gou'd;
No one know, the wise man say,
"Foller the drinkin' gou'd."

- it sounds like a fragment of a Christmas Carol, wise men following the star...


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 04:25 PM

McGrath, as you can imagine, with the project on spirituals going full tilt boogie, I too am cruising around a lot of sites of that era looking for material on all of the spirituals. I will keep my eye out.

If you have any bookmarks for us, please share them-- there's a thread called Links on Spirituals where you could toss 'em. Eventually all those links will get edited together and inserted in the permathread. Don't worry about making clickies-- I can automate them when I edit it all together.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 04:21 PM

That was great Masato - and prompt. That bit Harold Courlander said about how "the song is not couched in traditional Negro images or vernacular and that the entire effect is literary and contrived" falls away when you see the collected versions, compared to the smoothed down and reconstructed version we know.

I was looking around on the net at anti-slavery sites, and at sites relating to this song, all of which, so far as I could see, seem just to retell and elaborate that story from Parks. I wonder if anyone has ever done any proper research on the anti-slavery records and such, to find out what lies behind the story.

I mean, is there a real Peg-Leg Joe at the back of it, or was that made up retrospectively to tie in with the words, with them maybe having some other meaning to them? And why did does it seem to have taken half a century for the song to get collected in any version. I noticed in "Slave Songs" from 1867 that the authors specifically said that they hadn't managed to get by any means all the songs, which isn't surprising. But even so, a song with a story attached like that, I'd have thought it might have turned up sooner. So maybe it did, in some dusty archive somewhere.

If there was a real Peg Leg Joe it'd really be good to find out more about him.


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: GUEST,Ponytrax
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 04:10 PM

There is also a fascinating book, "Hidden in Plain Sight" that discusses how quiltmakers (slaves) used quilt patterns (the blocks) and quilting patterns (the stitches that hold the top, stuffing, and bottom together) as maps or memory devices to aid escapees. Both sets of patterns are connected to traditional African patterns.


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 03:13 PM

If you have not yet welcomed new member Masato Sakurai, this would be a good time to do it. He has been presenting scholarship like this for several weeks now, mostly in the spirituals project.

I think we should take up a collection to get the man a scanner!

~Susan


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Subject: Lyr Add: Follow the Drinking Gourd
From: masato sakurai
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 02:48 PM

I'll add all the lyrics from Parks' article above (titles were not given).

(1) Sung by a little Negro boy in Hot Springs, NC in 1912.

Foller the drinkin' gou'd,
Foller the drinkin' gou'd;
No one know, the wise man say,
"Foller the drinkin' gou'd."

(2) Sung by two Negro boys about sixteen, with violin and banjo, at Waller, Texas in 1918.

Foller the Risen Lawd,
Foller the Risen Lawd;
The bes' thing the Wise Man say,
"Foller the Risen Lawd."

(3) Sung by an old Negro at College Station, Texas.

When the sun come back,
When the firs' quail call,
Then the time is come
Foller the drinkin' gou'd.

(Chorus)
Foller the drinkin' gou'd,
Foller the drinkin' gou'd;
For the ole man say,
"Foller the drinkin' gou'd."

The riva's bank am a very good road,
The dead trees show the way,
Lef' foot, peg foot goin' on,
Foller the drinkin' gou'd.

(Chorus)

The riva ends a-tween two hills,
Foller the drinkin' gou'd;
'Nuther riva on the other side
Foller the drinkin' gou'd,

(Chorus)

What the little riva
Meet the grea' big un,
The ole man waits--
Foller the drinkin' gou'd.


Click to play

(from Lomax, 1934, taken from the article by H.B. Parks -JRO-)
Incidentally, Slave Songs was published in 1867 (my mistake); Botkin's Treasury (pp. 476-478) in 1947 (bibliographer's mistake). The author's name is Parks (not Park); the place name is Louisville.

~Masato


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 02:19 PM

Thanks a lot for that, Masato.

No, there doesn't seem any trace of it in the book - I wonder where M Ted got the info that it did? Maybe it is mentioned in Harold Courlander's introduction to the new edition mentioned in M Ted's post.

Anyway now the song in some form is traced back to 1912, which would be well within the lifetime of people who had been slaves. It'd be interesting to see how far the version as collected by Parks was the same as the one that's current now.

I'm glad to see that version of the story, which puts more flesh on the bare bones. That mention of the story of Peg-Leg being "in the records of the Anti-Slavery Society" is fascinating. It'd be great to have that chased up and brought here.


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 02:08 PM

Slaves liberated by a shanty?

~S~


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: masato sakurai
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 01:27 PM

No such song as "Follow the Drinking Gourd" (at least under that title) could I find in the 1876 Slave Songs of the United States. In the bibliography of the site posted by Lesley N. above, there is this entry:

Botkin, B.A. 1944. A Treasury of Southern Folklore. Crown Publishers, NY. "Follow the Drinking Gourd" was first documented by a folklorist, H.B. Parks, in Texas. His account of discovering the song and the story behind it are difficult to obtain ("Follow the Drinking Gourd." 1928. Publications of the Texas Folklore Society, Frank Dobie, ed). Botkin's account of the song is essentially a reprint of Park's publication.

Botkin quotes verbatim from Park's article except the music, which is from People's Songs, vol.1, No.2, p.12 (1947), as sung by Lee Hayes. Another reprint of the Parks article is in Mother Wit from the Laughing Barrel: Readings in the Interpretation of Afro-American Folklore, edited by Alan Dundes (University Press of Mississippi, 1990, pp. 465-468), with the original music and lyrics.
Parks records the story by "an old Negro" he met at College Station, Texas (date not given) as follows:

He [i.e., the old Negro] said that just before the Civil War, somewhere in the South, he was not just sure where, there came a sailor who had lost one leg and had the missing member replaced by a peg-leg. He would appear very suddenly at some plantation and ask for work as a painter or carpenter. This he was able to get at almost every place. He made friends with the slaves and soon all of the young colored men were singing the song that is herein mentioned. The following spring nearly all the young men among the slaves disappeared and made their way to the north and finally to Canada by following a trail that had been made by the peg-leg sailor and was held in memory by the Negroes in this peculiar song....
One of my [i.e., Park's] great-uncles, who was connected with the railroad movement, remembered that in the records of the Anti-Slavery Society there was a story of a peg-legged sailor, known as Peg-Leg Joe, who made a number of trips through the South and induced young Negroes to run away and escape through the North to Canada....

Parks had heard this song sung by "a little Negro boy" in Hot Springs, North Carolina in 1912; by "a Negro fisherman" in Lousville in 1913; and by "two Negro boys" at Waller, Texas in 1918.
The story behind the song seems to have mainly come from the anonymous "old Negro."

~Masato


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 07:03 AM

Interesting stuff. But what I haven't come across are references to is material relating directly to the slave and post slave period, or to accounts collected from the field. It always seems to be people much later retelling the story.

There's a book which doesn't seem to have been mentioned on these threads which is really worth having for anyone interested in these things, Harold Courlander's Negro Folk Music, published originally in 1963, though there's a modern paperback edition with Amazon.

He makes the point that sometimes the interpretation of other songs which emphasise their possible coded meaning may be a misinterpretation, and that their direct religious meaning was more significant at the time.

"A large number of spirituals and anthems were so worded that they could have a disguised meaning; but it is not safe to assume...that they were created as anything else but religious songs."

Of "Follow the Drinking Gourd" he writes "There undoubtedly were some songs which served the slaves in their efforts to escape. For example Follow the Drinking Gourd is thought to have been a kind of oral map leading out of slave territory. The Drinking Gourd presumably was the Big Dipper, by which one readily locates the North Star:

When the sun comes back and the first quail calls
Follow the drinking gourd,
For the old man is waiting to carry you to freedom
If you follow the drinking gourd.

The river bank will make a very good road
The dead trees show you the way.
Left foot, peg foot, travelling on
Follow the drinking gourd.


"These and other stanzas are found in Silber (Irwin Silber, Songs of the Civil War, published 1960). Making due allowance for rearrangements that may have been made in the lyrics since the song was first sung, a careful reading nevertheless gives the impression that the song is not couched in traditional Negro images or vernacular and that the entire effect is literary and contrived. The legend attributed to it says in fact that it was taught to the slaves by a peg-leg ex-sailor who wandered round the countryside telling them how to escape to the North.

But once again, retelling, with a reference only dating to 1969 for those verses. It would be interesting to see what the version from 1867.


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 01:29 AM

The following includes another rendition of the escape instructions in the song, along with some other thoughts on spirituals and the Underground Railroad.

CLICK!

~S~


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: GUEST,Fred
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 12:53 AM

Recent TV specials on the underground railroad and on Harriet Tubman said the song originated during the time of the underground railroad, as I recall sometime in the 1850's. There were several other "spirituals" which also were used for instruction or to tell when the railroad was making its next move.

Re: Paul Campbell - the Weavers used this nom de plume (or more likely, nom de guerre) when they were blacklisted during the McCarthy era.


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Subject: RE: Help: Follow the Drinking Gourd meanings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 08:18 PM

This is a thread that died away with question I asked in it unanswered - specifically, how old is this song, and does it go back to slave times, or was it a more recent creation.

Anyway, searching for something else, I came across this post that goes some way to answer that. The song was evidently in a collection of slave songs published in 1867.

But it'd still be interesting to know how far it has been in the oral tradition over the next few generations, and whether there are variants which have been collected.


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