Help: I want to buy a guitar

Subject: I want to buy a guitar
From: Patrish(inactive)
Date: 05 May 00 - 09:15 AM

I used to play spanish guitar a long time ago. So I am not a complete beginner - can play chords and read guitar music
I would like to buy an accoustic steel strung. But what should I do? Go for second hand? Buy new? what make? where from? which guitar books? - Any advice muchly appreciated
Patrish

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 05 May 00 - 09:34 AM

I bought my daughter a new Seagull guitar, made in Quebec Canada. The price was very reasonable, and the quality is very impressive. A similar quality recognised brand name guitar would be double what I paid for the Seagull. Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Gary T
Date: 05 May 00 - 09:46 AM

Patrish, this is a fairly wide open question as there are many good choices available (and many bad ones as well). One approach to consider is to talk to a local luthier (who presumably has no financial interest in selling you a guitar) about what you are looking for. Have him inspect anything you're considering buying if you don't feel confident about judging the instrument's basic quality. Then have him set it up for your playing style and ability so that you have a guitar that doesn't frustrate you unnecessarily. As far as the sound of the instrument, that is for you to judge with your personal preferences. If you look at and play a wide variety of different guitars, you'll get some sense of the choices available to you in this aspect.

I would second Dave's assessment of Seagull, based on a friend's pleasant experience with one. I would also suggest considering Yamaha, as they seem to make decent instruments at reasonable prices (I have two of them that I'm happy with). Happy shopping!

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Midchuck
Date: 05 May 00 - 09:55 AM

You may want to consider Martin - the additional investment in a low-end Martin ("road") or ("1") series, over a Seagull may be justified, not only by higher quality, but by the Martin Myth causing it to hold more of its value. If you pay list for one, you'll probably have to pay more than you want to. But the "Road" series models can be found for under $600 US. That's in the US, of course. Anywhere else is a different matter.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Mooh
Date: 05 May 00 - 10:14 AM

I'm with Dave, the Seagull is a heck of a value and a very good guitar. Use a reputable dealer. Get first hand advice from pros. Take your time. Trust your ears. Distrust discount houses (sorry, just my experience). New or used, doesn't matter. Check out the large used dealers on the net (Mandolin Bros. Elderly, et al) for price ranges etc. If money is no object (you have my envy) get a custom made one or a high end Martin or Taylor or Larivee, or better yet, give your business to one of the many one-off builders (like Manzer, Laskin, Schwartz, Beneteau, Thompson...). Get one that fits your body as well as your ears. Get a hard shell case and a good gig bag if you plan to travel and/or walk around with it alot. Trust your ears. Compare similar or identical guitars, they will sound different, to get the better of a good bunch. Try 'em with good strings. Don't pay for a cutaway if you don't need one, the inverse is true also. Give your local dealer a chance to serve you, they could be a valuable ally. Most advert endorsments mean little. Get wood, not synthetics (my opinion) and thank the earth and tree for giving themselves up to your music. Really test drive the guitar, a couple of strums and the salespitch isn't enough. Trust your ears. Test it on your lap and on a strap, balance changes. Face open space, a wall, hard and soft surfaces, to hear how the sound changes. Have someone else play it and walk around it to see if the sound is still enjoyable. Play it your way, not the way you wouldn't ordinarily play, so that you know how it will sound when you leave the show room.

Did I say "Trust your ears"? Trust your ears, and good luck. I love shopping your guitars!

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Patrish(inactive)
Date: 05 May 00 - 10:20 AM

I live in the UK, in West Yorkshire, there are one or two music shops I trust, but I think the advice of taking advice from pros is one I will take up. I have a friend who has played for years and always sounds good.
Sorry to say Mooh, money is tight, I want the best I can afford - thats why perhaps second hand may be an option. I thank you all for your help - its a bit daunting -boldy going where I have never been before.
Patrish

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 May 00 - 10:30 AM

Mooh had a lot of good advice. I'll add that it's great to be able to take a friend that you trust to help you. That way you can hear the guitar being played. I'm leary about some of the sales help that can be found in a lot of stores. They're not all bad of course but many of them { in my experence } are far more knowledgeable about electrics than acoustics. And a lot of stores stock a large supply of dreadnaughts and have very few OO , OOO and OM sized guitars. Try as many sizes as possible until you find one that fits you. You'll know it when you hold in in your arms. And there are some very nice instruments that can be found for under $500.00. Know your budget. You don't have to spend $3000.00. But wouldn't it be nice.......

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Patrish(inactive)
Date: 05 May 00 - 10:35 AM

It certainly would................

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Mooh
Date: 05 May 00 - 10:38 AM

Patrish,

Have you ever heard Simon Mayor's playing? I think he's in the Reading area of England, and as a Canadian, I don't know how close that would be to you, but his site/advice might be worth searching out. I sometimes get Guitarist magazine which is English as you likely know, and even the adverts in it might give you a good idea what's available. Also try Tacoma guitars which are now available in the UK I think. Good new value.

A second hand Lowden, even in rough condition but seen by a competent luthier, would be great. Don't shy away from something that's real beat up if it sounds great and can be made playable.

Sound and playability are much more important than appearance.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: GMT
Date: 05 May 00 - 10:47 AM

I have a Seagull SM6 which I'm happy with. It cost me £350 sterling from Londons Denmark Street (so it may have been a bit overpriced).
Seagulls have solid tops and are great value for the money as I'm sure the top name makes are going to start at twice that price.
Just my twp penneth.

Cheers Gary

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Patrish(inactive)
Date: 05 May 00 - 10:57 AM

I am not looking for something pretty - sound rules OK
Patrish

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 05 May 00 - 11:03 AM

The Seagull I bought Emma cost around $300 (Canadian) It is a full size fret, small body guitar, ideal for a young person, or for portability. The sound quality exceeds that of similar Yamaha guitars. If they are imported into the UK try one, I'm sure you will like it. Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Mooh
Date: 05 May 00 - 12:44 PM

Patrish, I checked an atlas and it looks like you're a long way from Reading, but anyway, there's lots of good advice right here. The Seagull is, as we've said, a great value, and sounds as good as many guitars many times the cost. I've personally played several and not found a dog among them. I'd be interested in knowing how you make out.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: DougR
Date: 05 May 00 - 02:02 PM

How would you folks rate the small Seagull to the small Larivee?

DougR

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 May 00 - 02:03 PM

Hi Patrish....Lots of good thoughts here, but have you read all the threads we have done on guitars in the past two years? There's lots more opinions andd a BOATLOAD of information shared right here in them Forum!!!

With the new and improved Super Search, just enter a brand name or guitar in the box and look at the number of threads you can choose from!!! Read a few of those too, 'cause "trust me"....you ain't the first one who ask.(:<))

Spaw6

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: GUEST,Dave (the ancient mariner at work)
Date: 05 May 00 - 02:04 PM

Seagull had the edge sound wise, the Larivee I looked at was about $50 cheaper but not a bad guitar.

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: GUEST,Peter T.
Date: 05 May 00 - 02:50 PM

I must have got the only bad Seagull in the world! Mine was a dud (I have an expert's opinion, alas too late). I have a nice cheap Yamaha, which is great (classical). But I would never ever buy another guitar without having an expert along with me -- there are some really subtle things I am learning, like whether they are in tune all the way up the frets and things like that which there is no way I would know or hear personally.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: kendall
Date: 05 May 00 - 03:20 PM

I never thought much of Seagulls either, and Gurion too for that matter. I'd go for a solid top Yamaha if your budget is tight.

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Mooh
Date: 05 May 00 - 03:26 PM

DougR,

I prefer the Seagull to the Larivee, but both are worthy,

Peter T,

I've heard this before about every kind of guitar, proving that even among the same model there can be duds. My advice above works, make sure there's decent strings, take a pro with you or get advice which isn't partisan, and check those things like intonation. Lastly, even a dud can be improved somewhat by a good luthier who can change and better such things as the nut, saddle, tuners, intonation, neck set, bracing, bridge and pins, etc. I once bought a guitar which was very much better than two identical ones hanging beside it, and was happy with it for years.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 May 00 - 03:30 PM

I think y'all really enjoy a lot of the past discussions on Seagull and others....

But Mooh, you're right up to a point. But a good guitar will get better and a dud will pretty much remain so, even with improvements.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Mooh
Date: 05 May 00 - 05:03 PM

Well Spaw, You know you're right.

All I was trying to say, in my awkward way, was that a dud could be made better but probably not appreciably so. I was trying diplomacy, but my former job as a union negotiator should tip us all off that maybe I'm not too good at diplomacy. The truest evidence of my opinion and approach is my purchase of 3 handbuiltoneofakinders, all of which are superlative guitars. Now, I gots a beater that with some care became a super-beater campfire axe, but is still not world class. Now it is possible that a good axe can be disguised as a dud by a bad saddle, strings, nut and the like, but if that's what its got, it was likely a dud to start with. However, it's worth a try, given the expense of a replacement guitar.

Btw, I have one pawnshop bought Harmony flat-top that's cool and there are others like it out there that are better than mine, solid wood too. Great fun.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 May 00 - 05:25 PM

Modern Yamahas are very pedestrian, but not much will go wrong. A bit like a Japanese car or motorbike. Seagulls are very good value and sound nice and have a shortish scale length so play easy, but the tuning stability is suspect. Most L'Arrivees are prohibitively expensive in the UK. If you want a cheap cricket bat which will work but not sound great pick up an old Eko. You should get one (for about GBP 50 to GBP100) which is quite workable. THe sound balance is fair, but there is no huge "ring". If you can go a bit more you should be able to get a Sigma DM4 for between GBP100 and GBP150, second hand, which, if you like the "Martin" sound will do a fair impersonation.

Get "Loot" and "Diamond Free Ads" and read them for a month before buying.

If you want "bite" try a cheap second hand Washburn but do check that it tunes OK - they tend to have trouble with the B string.

Avoid washing up bowls like th plague. They sound like plastic.

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: MK
Date: 05 May 00 - 05:47 PM

I'm looking for something as well, and what the hell. I've given it a shot in other places. I'll give it a shot here.

Specifically, I'm looking for an all original Martin OOO-28, any age between 1947 and 1968. These pups are very hard to come by, as most people who own them tend to hang onto them, and the ones I have seen on the market are either refinished (YUK) or have a zillion replacement parts...or are grossly overpriced.

If anyone here on this Forum (or know of someone who just) happens to have one lying under their bed or in their closet in its case, gathering dust, contact me via personal message. VERY TALL ORDER I know, but what the hell. *G*

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Terry K
Date: 06 May 00 - 02:47 AM

I just bought my first guitar.

None of my friends play instruments so I had to trust my own judgement and I have NO guitar experience at all.

I didn't shop around much, just went straight to Chappell's in Bond Street (that's London, England for the foreigners amongst us). I thought at the time I was "researching" but was really impressed with the help I got and ended up buying a Yamaha. It's a DW-5S (dreadnought with solid spruce top, rosewood back and sides). It's delightful, but then I have not much to compare with! I suppose I was lucky not to be able to recognise any shortcomings, but the main thing is I'm happy in my own mind.

I think probably the main reason I went Yamaha is because my (traditional) piano is a Yamaha and I am delighted with it. I even feature in a Yamaha piano advert (in a small way!).

Back on the guitar, I bought two tutor books with CDs attached, both of which seem OK except that they seem to conflict in places. But last week I came across a PC based tutor which is just incredible. I reckon that in a few years time I'll be able to play guitar as badly as I play piano.

Terry

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Mooh
Date: 06 May 00 - 11:39 AM

Terry K,

If you are happy, that's all that matters! Congratulations! There's no question that we all become quite accustomed to the sound of our own guitars and gradually use that sound as a comparator. For better or worse, I use my own as a benchmark against which I measure other guitars. If you've got something you like now, may you continue to like it, call it your own, and exploit its strengths to your ear's advantage.

There's nothing quite like the thrill of a newly purchased guitar.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Terry K
Date: 06 May 00 - 01:35 PM

Thanks Mooh, that's really encouraging.

What made me buy a guitar in the first place were some equally encouraging words I had from the Mudcat in a previous thread (notably from Sourdough) which led me to believe that maybe I could do it after all.

I guess that's what inspirational is all about.

Cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Ely
Date: 06 May 00 - 02:16 PM

I can't even pretend to be a guitar expert (I don't think I've ever even heard of Seagull guitars).

My mom bought me a bottom-of-the-line Alvarez at a pawnshop as a gradutation/19th birthday gift. It's about as boring-looking as a guitar can be, but it sounds good and has nice action (I think so and the people I've let borrow it think so, too). I think we paid $200 [US], which was probably quite high considering it was used (but in new condition) and had no case.

I don't know what the reputation of these guitars is long-term, but I've had mine for four years and it's traveled a lot and been kicked around some, but I've had no "soundness" problems.

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: DougR
Date: 06 May 00 - 02:37 PM

Thanks, Spaw, for the search tip. I wasn't quite sure how to use that new fangled thing.

DougR

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Amergin
Date: 06 May 00 - 02:51 PM

Bought mine for 20 bucks at a yard sale. Now I just need to learn how to play the damn thing.

Amergin

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: DougR
Date: 06 May 00 - 08:01 PM

Hmmm, Spaw. I don't seem able to connect witht the "New fangled thing." You suggested entering the name of a guitar in the Super Search box, which I did. I entered Larivee, and the results were zilch. I'm obviously doing something wrong. Know what it is?

DougR

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 May 00 - 08:50 PM

Ah Doug.....spelling is everything to a search engine. Try LARRIVEE (two R's) and you'll get a ton.

Spaw---Been there, Done that.

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Lanfranc
Date: 07 May 00 - 05:38 PM

Patrish, I have a Simon & Patrick D6 Cedar top dreadnaught I might part with for GBP225 or so to a good home. It's from the same Godin Canadian stable as the Seagulls, but a bit more conventional in appearance. It has a solid cedar top, plays really well, and was set up by an ex-Martin luthier of my acquaintance. Email me at [e-mail] if interested. I'm in the UK, in Harlow, Essex.

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 07 May 00 - 06:00 PM

Patrish, my 2d worth and this is a general thought of mine that goes for purchasing other instruments too. Set yourself a budget, you know somebody that plays, see if you can set aside some time with him/her and have a wander round music shops. Don't worry too much about makes - if it sounds good and plays well, it is a good instrument. Have them played to you (helps to hear what it sounds like from the other side even if you play) and find something you like the sound of, also apart from listening to the other persons opinion, try them yourself and see how they feel to you.

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: DougR
Date: 07 May 00 - 06:04 PM

Dumb redfaced me! Thanks Spaw!

DougR

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 07 May 00 - 06:11 PM

I said not to worry about makes but for what it's worth, the last time I looked round our local music store and had a play around nearly 12 months ago, the nicest ones to me that he had in stock were Landola's - maye a bit more exensive than some of things listed here but I (subjective and ignorant opinion) thought they were great guitars.

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 07 May 00 - 06:11 PM

Hi Parish, A year or so ago I went back to visit a pottery I had worked at in Penreth Cumbria and stoped into a local music shop in town ,.. They caried a good line of Canadian guitars(Sorry I cant remamber the name ) but the owners were very helpfull and knew their stuff.. If you get up that way stop in and tell them the american potter that tryed everything a december ago sent you.. We realy had a blast and I know they knew I was'nt buying... Also I would look at a smaller bodied guitar if your plucking as you did with the clasical.. Have fun looking .. The right guitar will find you!!! All the best GUy

Subject: RE: Help: I want to buy a guitar
From: canoer
Date: 08 May 00 - 08:14 AM

Coming in late here, but regards, Terry K, I did a similar thing, though I have less musical background than yours. It turned out great. Went to a place with many guitars, had one favorite song I played on many brands and prices, and sure enough there was one guitar that fell on even my untrained ears like no other. Three years ago and not sorry yet.