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BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency
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Subject: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: katlaughing Date: 22 Aug 00 - 01:41 PM Just found this on the 'Net. Looks like JC-SuperStar is going to run against Bush and Gore. Just CLICK HERE to read the exclusive scoop!**BG** NOI kat
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Mbo Date: 22 Aug 00 - 01:45 PM Why did you feel the need to post this crap? Guess not enough people were being insulted today. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Bert Date: 22 Aug 00 - 01:47 PM LMAO, great one kat!!! Mbo, it's supposed to be FUNNY. Dammit it IS funny. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: SINSULL Date: 22 Aug 00 - 01:55 PM Sorry, Mbo. I thought it was funny too. James Carville as JC's campaign manager? |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: paddymac Date: 22 Aug 00 - 02:00 PM Dang it, Kat, I can't get to the server for your BCT. PLease tell me it's true. Jim Croce for Pres? Whoopee! |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: SINSULL Date: 22 Aug 00 - 02:04 PM FYI Christ Announces His Bid for President Campaign strategists for both major parties were stunned this week as Jesus Christ announced His resignation from His post as Savior to over 1 billion Christians in order to make time for a run at the White House. Sources close to the Son of God say he has not yet decided whether he will run on the Reform Party ticket or as an independent. Shortly after the surprise announcement, Republican candidate George Bush began questioning Christ's experience record, citing that the Messiah has yet to serve on any celestial government in any function whatsoever except for a brief stint as a Wyoming state congressman in 1983. Bush also tempered remarks he had made earlier in the campaign regarding his acceptance of Jesus as his Lord and Savior. "Though I have accepted Jesus into my heart, I don't agree with His economically liberal viewpoint. I want to give hard-working citizens back their money. I want to tell Washington that Americans are tired of seeing government grow." But others have come out in support of the man affectionately known to millions of Americans as "The Lamb of God". The deeply Catholic Ted Kennedy expressed his approval of Christ's decision within hours of the official announcement. "I am big man! Big fat naked man!" he told reporters on Thursday. Vice President Gore was not available for comment because he was kidnapped by ninjas. Other questions have been raised by various political analysts in the wake of Christ's plunge into the election, particularly regarding the character issue. Christ was convicted of disturbing the peace in 33 B.C. by the Roman Empire. Perhaps more damaging are photos which have recently surfaced, dating sometime in the late 70s, showing Jesus holding a giant marijuana bud in what is presumed to be His basement nursery. The Messiah has repeatedly declined to comment on the photos, saying that the American people are weary of negative campaigns. "And I say unto thee, that if it is in one of you men to casteth forth the first stone, then verily, cast it indeed," He told reporters at a campaign stop in Nebraska. "Besides, everybody knows Bush did coke. Go pick on him." Perhaps the most damaging component of Christ's image is that He is still seen by many voters as a liberal. In "The New Testament", written by political supporters of the Son of God, Jesus proclaims His health care plan in which every sick American will be brought before Him and healed by His divine powers of transmutation. This is a step to the left of Clinton's health policy. Also, Jesus talks funny. Critics have pointed out that Christ's sudden bid for the presidency was made only a week after Lucifer, Lord of Darkness and former Austin city councilman , announced his entrance into the campaign. Christ and Lucifer have been political adversaries for centuries. Lucifer, who has gone by the names Beelzebub, Satan, and Barbara Streisand, is running as the Mandatory HIV-Infusion Party candidate. The Messiah's entrance into the elections has sparked off several notable squabbles. Last week, Green Party candidate Ralph Nader made an appearance on the Larry King Show in which he accused the Kingdom of God, a non-incorporated quasi-mystical organization which is known to be funding Jesus' campaign, of violating a variety of national trade laws; the public backlash against Mr. Nader was overwhelming until a few days later, when he produced videos of underpaid cherubim working 12-hour days in substandard conditions at a Kingdom sweatshop producing cheep bric-a-brac angel figurines. Yahweh, an all-powerful, all-knowing deity who has commanded the Kingdom since eternity (with only one brief leave of absence when He got into real-estate and investment banking in the 80s), denied any knowledge of the sweatshop conditions at until a reporter pointed out that His ability to know all things made it impossible for him not to have known, at which point God said he was just kidding and that he had known about the sweatshops all along, but they weren't really sweatshops, they were something else, good things, or words to that effect. The next day He ran a full-page explanatory ad in the New York Times and had the reporter stoned to death. Christ 2000 campaign manager James Carville told reporters at a recent press conference that the voters are interested in "true reform and real progress, not stale leadership from Washington insiders", and that he hoped to wage an upbeat campaign. Then he shot himself up with an insanely large amount of crystal meth and began throwing nearby objects at reporters until he was subdued and ritually beheaded by security. Everyone saw it coming. Barrett Lancaster Brown Barrett Brown, 18, is a freelance writer based in Austin, Tx, where he just dropped out of the University of Texas. He's written columns for The Daily Texan, The Met, men360.com, Computoredge Magazine, and maincampus.com. He's available for writing assignments and sexual favors. You may leave feedback for Mr. Brown at barriticus@aol.com Vol. 2 No. 2 August, 2000 Submission Guidelines | Current Issue | Market Links EdVice | Back Issues | Featured Author | Home Writers' Resources |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: catspaw49 Date: 22 Aug 00 - 02:06 PM I'd like to be considered for the Veep slot. I mean I have had experience what with the "Holy Shit Falwell" and all..............Hey!! Maybe I oughta' just throw my hat and my garage wall into the ring.......Whaddaya think? Good find kat! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: kendall Date: 22 Aug 00 - 02:06 PM I'm a professional humorist and I dont think its funny either. Clever, maybe, not funny. For once, I agree with the kid. Besides, how could Jesus be convicted of anything in 33 BC? |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Mbo Date: 22 Aug 00 - 02:07 PM Well it's about time we agreed on something! |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Bert Date: 22 Aug 00 - 02:11 PM Well I can see George Bush not agreeing with 'His economically liberal viewpoint'. That IS funny. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: kendall Date: 22 Aug 00 - 02:11 PM hey, I'm big enough to take the first step! Dont mind me Mbo, I'm having a real bad day |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: SINSULL Date: 22 Aug 00 - 02:12 PM I am so glad you two have finally found something to agree on. Now how about a rousing duet of "Hey Jude" to celebrate the occasion? |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: SINSULL Date: 22 Aug 00 - 02:15 PM Kendall, I am sorry Pete took his banjo back. But don't let that spoil your day. Anything serious or just PMS? Mary, half joking. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Aug 00 - 02:43 PM Congratulations to Barrett. His account is almost as hilarious as the real election campaign. Jesus is so extremely liberal that I feel sure the conservative forces in America would arrange to have him done away with a whole lot faster than their counterparts in ancient Palestine did...in the event he ever became President of the USA. Of course, they don't mind invoking his name frequently, as long as he stays safely within the pages of the Bible and doesn't rock the boat. Miracles are okay with them too...as long as they're a couple of thousand years in the past. Sorry this stuff upsets you, Mbo. I have a whole lot of respect for Jesus, but not much for the religious right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: catspaw49 Date: 22 Aug 00 - 02:57 PM Now look here....I think I'm one helluva compromise candidate. I'm about to start managing Sinsull on her "Psychic Psychotic" scam and it ought to give me some infomercial acumen......I think the Falwell thing makes me attractive to that wing and I don't have any cigars so my character is unblemished. And Nader is bound to throw his support to me since I refused to work on Corvairs many years ago. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Morticia Date: 22 Aug 00 - 03:06 PM Laugh? I thought my pants would never dry!......thanks Kat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Whistle Stop Date: 22 Aug 00 - 03:15 PM I'm surprised nobody brought up JC's habit of consorting with prostitutes -- it's well documented, as is his fondness for alcoholic beverages (evidently he was responsible for some serious binge-drinking at a wedding in Cana), his insistence on practicing medicine without a license, and his negative campaigning against the Pharisees. There was also the time he was seen kissing one of his "disciples" late one night -- there were several witnesses to that one. This could get a whole lot uglier; the guy definitely has some explaining to do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: SINSULL Date: 22 Aug 00 - 03:33 PM Corvairs?? Some of my finest college days were spent cruising around in a Corvair convertible. Although I loved my little white bug the best. I had to go back to the top to remember what this thread is about. On a serious note, although the campaign theme makes me laugh and the humor escapes Kendall and Mbo, I wonder if it downright offends someone like Praise. If we haven't already gone too far and I will suggest moderation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Mbo Date: 22 Aug 00 - 03:54 PM I'm downright offended! And if you think I'm being immature, I have this great essay on the Dalai Lama's new job as a male stripper. Loads o' laughs! But I'm not laughing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: katlaughing Date: 22 Aug 00 - 04:03 PM NOI=No Offense Intended The thread IS labelled BS I ONLY put the LINK in...ya didn't have to follow it, nor continue reading it once ya got there... And, Sinsull, thanks for posting it for those who couldn't access it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Mbo Date: 22 Aug 00 - 04:05 PM Well you had that misleading line about Jesus Christ Superstar, I though it was going to be about the musical (which I love). And I've never ever seen NOI before. Thought it stood for North of Ireland. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: catspaw49 Date: 22 Aug 00 - 04:12 PM Geeziz Meebo, you got something on the DL as a stripper?.....Post it man!!! Why jerry falweel appeared on my garage wall in fart blast and I posted that! As soon as I can track down that story of Madilyn Murray O'Hare being gang raped in a Buddhist temple, you know I'll share. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: DougR Date: 22 Aug 00 - 04:12 PM I'll go with Kendall on this one. Clever, maybe, funny? Sorry, I fail to see the humor. Kendall, glad you spotted the BC bit. Maybe that's why the kid is no longer going to U of T. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: katlaughing Date: 22 Aug 00 - 04:18 PM I love the musical, too, Mbo, among those of us who were around when it came out, it became a habit to just refer to Jesus the Christ, as well as the musical, as "JCsuperstar", at least in my neck of the woods. We can talk about it, if you want. I knew I should have explained NOI...it's an old one we don't use much anymore around here. ****CREEP ALERT**** MBO, I GOT YOUR TAPE TODAY AND I LOVE IT!! Well-done, nice mixing and good choices. I just saw Chris LeDeux's version of "Five Dollar Fine" on tv the other night and it was a hoot. THANKS!
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: thosp Date: 22 Aug 00 - 06:50 PM i'm still for Nader at this point --although i'm very interested in Christs' candidacy -- one of my first thoughts are that - although i greatly admire and respect His( Christs') positions and actions circa ? to 33 AD - i have to ask myself "what has He done lately?" -- are his positions still the same? ---- is He prolife or prochoice --- how much would he render unto Cesar? --- would he ask the military to turn the other cheek? -- also i have scoured the testaments and i find that Christ is ominously silent about enviormental issues -- ------ these are questions that beg to be answered ! ----- so i remain for Nader/LeDuke ---- and i worry that Christs' candidacy will hurt Nader ---- as for Lucifer --- it's time to vote his minions out of office!!! peace (Y) thosp |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: GUEST,Luther Date: 22 Aug 00 - 07:06 PM yeah, Thosp, I'm sticking with Nader too. Christ's social policies are appealing, but then there's his appalling environmental record (cursing the barren fig, an archetypical "wise use" attitude, and wholly at odds with Aldo Leopold's view of "forest as a community"). And, of course, the callous and grotesque act of animal cruelty in the incident of the Gadarene swine... |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Aug 00 - 08:05 PM Hey, come on guys! Those were different times. Pigs didn't rate too high in Galilee. JC did the best he could in a very trying situation. Don't pull the Judas routine and betray him now. Put the saviour in the Oval Office and do it with panache! He'll beat them swords into plowshares quicker than Spaw can change his underwear! |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: catspaw49 Date: 22 Aug 00 - 08:08 PM very doubtful Hawkster...........Spaw don't wear no underwear. Spaw -- hangin' free |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Sorcha Date: 22 Aug 00 - 09:10 PM Well, guys, Auntie Scorch checking in here, finally. For better or worse, I see both sides of this situation. I can see where this would not be funny to some people, but I think Praise might just think it is. She has no use at all for hypocrites, she just believes in what JC REALLY was/is. On the other hand, the Religious Right has seriously twisted what Jesus REALLY MEANT. Actually, this is sarcasm at it's best, which not everyone gets, or finds funny even if they do. Sarcasm is especially difficult in a print only situation.
But, think about this: If Jesus REALLY was to show up and run for Prez of US (or any other country for that matter), what would happen? He was not slow to point fingers at the Establishment of the time, and look what they did to him-----anybody here want to volunteer to be hung on a cross alive? Whether he died for someones' sins is a moot point--he did exist, he did have a LOT of valid points, and he did die in agony on a "tree". Just what, exactly, would the World 2000 DO with this philosophy if it were presented as new tomorrow?
(sometimes I hate being able to see both sides of a story)This really should only offend Christian Fanatics, which I am VERY afraid of, but sadly it has the capability to offend any person who calls him/her self Christian.
Am I going to be sorry I posted this? I swore to myself I would not DO the contriversial stuff, after the last time around, but "Into the breach......." kat, I am glad I had a chance to read it, thanks for posting it. And kendall/Mbo, I do understand what you both mean and where you are coming from. Problem is that modern Christianity has moved VERY VERY far from what Jesus actually did say, if MMLJ can be believed at all. They are even at odds with each other, let alone the Apocryphyal gospelists, such as Thomas. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: SINSULL Date: 22 Aug 00 - 09:42 PM Re: environmental issues. Didn't he walk on the sea of Galilee to protest the extent of the pollution? |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: paddymac Date: 22 Aug 00 - 11:24 PM Kudos to Sinsull for picking "Hey Jude" as a duet for Kendall & Mbo. It might be the perfect campaign song for JC. After all, Jude is fondly known as the patron saint of lost causes. (*BG*) |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: wysiwyg Date: 23 Aug 00 - 12:55 AM I suppose if I want to spend the next hour sorting out a whole range of complicated feelings about this subject, I might come up with someting useful to say. But that's the point. When you push people's buttons, thinking you will get a laugh, you may only accomplish hitting a a button. I think good humor does not begin with mockery. Mockery is not an accurate missile to aim at buttons. It splashes all over any buttons available. Great, another opportunity to practice forgiveness. Thanks for the opportunity to do what Jesus did while He was being mocked-- "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." ~S~
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Ebbie Date: 23 Aug 00 - 01:24 AM In my oh-so-humble :~) opinion, that satire is not mocking Jesus, it is doing a number on political types and patterns. And I think it's funny. Can't imagine a God without a sense of humor- where do you think we get ours? Ebbie |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: The Shambles Date: 23 Aug 00 - 06:26 AM This along with Monty Python's gentle satire, 'The Life of Brian', is only mocking us. If it not good humour to mock ourselves, then there will be no humour at all.
We all have different tastes in all things and what makes us laugh, is no exception. Long may this be so…. I hear that the 'Tooth Fairy' is thinking of mounting a campaign, but is just sleeping on it, at the moment……. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Amergin Date: 23 Aug 00 - 07:15 AM Yeah but Mbo probably finds Life of Brian offensive.... I find both hilarious personally.... Spaw, I think you're too late for your bid for vice-presidency.....hear he chose LTS. I guess he likes hairy women...... Amergin |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: kendall Date: 23 Aug 00 - 10:45 AM Just for the record, I am not offended by the overall concept, as I said, it is clever, but, to me, not funny. Life of Brian was not their best work, yet I did think that was funny. It in no way mocked Christianity. If it had, I would have been offended. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: SDShad Date: 23 Aug 00 - 12:44 PM I don't think it mocked Christian spirituality at all, at least not in any meaningful way that touches my experience as a Christian, and certainly mocked George Dubya and Ted Kennedy (admittedly, easy if deserving targets) more than anything else. If it mocks Jesus at all, it does so certainly a lot less than, say, South Park. Does it tweak Institutional Christianity (at least the Christian Right) a little bit? Yeah. And this is a bad thing? That said, it was kinda funny. Not roll-on-the-floor hilarious, but kinda funny. Especially the Ted Kennedy "big fat naked man" bit. What about it did ya find offensive about it, Meebs? (And may I just take this moment while I have the floor to say I got my tape this week too. I'm getting bits of it at at time in the van, the only tape player I'm around much right now, and am digging it--good Roddy McCorley, especially.) Chris |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Kim C Date: 23 Aug 00 - 03:22 PM It made me grin. :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Jim Krause Date: 23 Aug 00 - 04:21 PM I think I'll take the next boat to Holland and leave this place to its own destiny, thenkyewverrymuch Soddy |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Peter T. Date: 23 Aug 00 - 05:26 PM Mudcat Wired Service: -- Tenzin Gyatso (rhymes with "is that nutso or what so?"), the 14th Dalai Lama announced today that he was indeed taking a leave of absence to become a male stripper, known as Thunderbolt (Dorjeling). Said the revered figure: "I am a simple monk, what have I got to hide? Furthermore, Avolakitesvara, the Bodhisattva of Compassion, works in strange ways." Current plans are to open at the Vimilakirti Bar and Grill in Tucson sometime before the arrival of Manjusri, the Buddha of the Future. Questioned about his motives at a packed press conference, His Holiness referred to significant passages in the Madhyamika scriptures and the Heart Sutra which made reference to "no self, no body", and chuckled when he suggested that he might prove a disappointment, since he was not as young as he once was. "In Buddhism we sometimes meditate on the image of our rotting bodies, filled with pus and covered in worms, so as to prevent temptation and lust. I urge all audiences to do the same, and will endeavour to promote such images in my future work." He had high hopes for a routine with yak butter he had been working up for some time to verses from the Tibetan Book of the Dead. His agent, Lama Longchem Rabjampa said that it had "wowed them" at the Dharamasala Holiday Inn during previews. When he was asked if he would share a ticket with Jesus Christ, currently making a run at the American Presidency, the Dalai Lama said that in The Middle Way, balance was everything, but he wanted to concentrate for the moment on his new career. At this point he stopped and concentrated for a moment on his new career. Then he hegan again. Spokeswoman Mary Magdalene for the Jesus camp said that His Holiness was a serious contender for the Veep nod, but He was not seen to be "Judeo-Christian" enough, and two non-violent canditates on the same ticket would cause problems with the impending resurgence of the Star Wars defence proposal, and the need to win industrial states with substantial defence contracts. She did point out that she herself had at one time been a stripper, and it had done her career no harm. "What do the Buddhists say? -- "Let me be a raft to bear all the suffering of all beings away" -- Our campaign can go with that. Stay tuned."
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: katlaughing Date: 23 Aug 00 - 06:13 PM I bow in humble obeisance to your inimitable style, Peter....may lotus blossums cushion your sleep...HHDL's got my vote! |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Jim the Bart Date: 23 Aug 00 - 06:54 PM Sorry to burst all your bubbles, but for Jesus to run he'd have to be born an American. And as many Americans that I know to be born again Chistians, I have never heard of one Christ who was a born again American. Spaw, you'll just have to ascend to the top of the ticket, with both Mbo and Kendall as co-veeps. You know, to balance the ticket. And as the band plays "Hello, Dolly", out steps the holy man himself, clad only in lotus blossom and a big grin. . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: katlaughing Date: 23 Aug 00 - 08:37 PM And the wimmin are passed over, AGAIN!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Joe Offer Date: 23 Aug 00 - 08:56 PM Well, I call myself a Christian, and I thought the piece kat linked to (click) was pretty funny. What I do find offensive is those people who call themselves "Christians," and spend a good deal of their money buying TV time so they can impose their point of view on the rest of the world. Publicity is fine, but I'd like to think they'd be more effective if they spent some of that TV money on more charitable activities. People have come to think that Christianity is just another commodity sold on television. I think there's something wrong with that. It also gives a very unbalanced image of Chrsitianity. There are many of us Christians who are dedicated to fighting for the rights of women and workers and homosexuals and the poor. But I think that Jesus would get a good laugh out of the piece that Kat linked to. I think He must have had a pretty good sense of humor. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: catspaw49 Date: 23 Aug 00 - 10:46 PM Well done Peter!! Do any of you remember that the great 20th century philosopher, Leonard A. Schneider, had a long dissertation on Christ and Moses landing a Idlewild and driving through the worst of NYC to arrive at St. Patrick's Cathedral and meet the Pope? They see people living in the streets, kids with no shoes or proper clothes, schools falling apart.........and the splendor of the Pope's vestments and rings and jewelery and St. Pat's glorious appointments?. It was a trmendous piece of work..............funny too! (Leonard A. Schneider=Lenny Bruce, Stand-Up Philosopher) Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Sorcha Date: 23 Aug 00 - 11:03 PM As I recall, Lenny raffled a Catholic Church,too. But he was fair--he ridculed EVERYBODY! |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: ceitagh Date: 23 Aug 00 - 11:09 PM (I tried to post this earlier, but my connection faltered and i've only now come back on.) IMHO, Peter does much better satire than the articles author. I have to side with Kendall on this one...the idea was clever, but the humor was poorly executed. And just for the record: I *hate* the term 'religious right'!! If ever there was a more convenient, consistently misused and abused label, I have yet to hear of it. Its almost as bad as 'radical feminist' another oft used tarbrush. When will we understand that these labels only divide, and as long as we continue to label and disregard those we disagree with, we'll never find out what truth and wisdom they might have! Sorch, i'm far more offended by what you posted here than by anything in the original article, the assumptions inherent in your writing leaves me sad. That said, there is very little more i feel i can say on the topic that would actually sink in and make an impact. I have talked to enough walls in my short life. Ceitagh just another Christian fanatic |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: catspaw49 Date: 23 Aug 00 - 11:09 PM Actually Sorcha, the bit was that the Oldsmobile dealers got together and raffled off a 1958 Catholic Church.....a line I have used a lot!!! But I do try to credit Lenny with it. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Jim the Bart Date: 23 Aug 00 - 11:19 PM Jeez, Kat, you're absolutely right. Some campaign strategist I turned out to be. Some guy of the 90's, too. And I had begun to think I had freed myself of gender-bias. I hereby resign in shame to my ranch at San Cemente to ponder my foibles. Spaw will have to choose as many veeps as he needs to correct this horrible oversight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: katlaughing Date: 23 Aug 00 - 11:35 PM Too right, Barthlomew, and how many chicks have you got at the ranch in San Clemente, huh?**BG** If anyone really wants to read an incredible book, takes about an hour, written by an Episcopal priest and one of the most brilliant books ever written, IMO, please get The Allelujia Affair author's last name is Boyd. All of the Jesus' on all of the crucifixes around the world come a life and off of thier crosses to walk among the people. The people get totally freaked out and more. It is without doubt one of the most profound books I've ever read and one I will always count among my "have to keep" treasures. I did not link the original piece, written by an 18 year old remember, because of any anti-Christian stance nor because I am non-Christian. I didn't take it that way when I read it, either. I would like to say, I think those of us who are not Christian have been fairly restrained in recounting all of the times Christianity has taken potshots at whatever it is we believe in, including on this website. Most recently, in a couple of other threads, things that I have a deep spiritual feeling for have been ridiculed up one side and down the other, but it has been by people whom I consider to be family/friends; people whom I respect, so I took it in the fun that it was posted in and didn't get upset. Remember, when we get upset at someone else, it is ourselves and our physiology, as well as our emotional health which suffers, not that of the other person. Sometimes it is not worth the upset, esp. as those effects can be long-term and not show up for years. Lately, it seems we've all been too hyper-sensitive, myself included, and that our senses of humour and taking things *lightly*, as intended, have suffered. Perhaps we should try for more of a balance between taking things so seriously and being totally silly. Anyone wanna go tiptoe through the tulips with me? hey! It's virtual, I can have tulips in August if I want! katlaughing
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Mbo Date: 23 Aug 00 - 11:39 PM May it be a lesson to you, then, to think twice about posting this sort of drivel on a music site. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: katlaughing Date: 23 Aug 00 - 11:48 PM Drivel? This condescending drivel from someone who played tit-for-tat and inspired the Pissing Thread???? I hope your tongue is in your cheek, Mbo! |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Mbo Date: 23 Aug 00 - 11:49 PM Well at least it was music-related. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: JESUS WAS A CAPRICORN (Kris Kristofferson From: katlaughing Date: 24 Aug 00 - 12:05 AM JESUS WAS A CAPRICORN Kris Kristofferson Jesus was a Capricorn. He ate organic foods. He believed in love and peace and never wore no shoes. Long hair, beard, and sandals and a funky bunch of friends; Reckon we'd just nail him up if he come down again. CHORUS: 'Cause everybody's got to have somebody to look down on, Who they can feel better than at any time they please, Someone doin' somethin' dirty decent folks can frown on. You can't find nobody else, then help yourself to me. Eggheads cussin' rednecks cussin' hippies for their hair. Others laugh at straights who laugh at freaks who laugh at squares. Some folks hate the whites who hate the blacks who hate the Klan. Most of us hate anything that we don't understand.
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: ceitagh Date: 24 Aug 00 - 12:10 AM Kat, I do sympathise with what you're trying to say, and I try to make it a rule to assume the best of people and their posts. That i reacted in this particular case is almost definately because of something in me, not any particular desire to give sorcha or you a hard time. If the discussion surrounding your post had not gone as far as it did, i would've glanced at it once and kept going...because, as you say, some one elses humor is not worth getting your feathers ruffled about. But my knee jerk reaction to some of the commentary here was to be not only offended, but hurt. Not because anything out of the ordinary was said, but precisely because it is nothing out of the ordinary to me. I don't know what non-Christians go thru, I don't know your experience, or sorchas, but i know i have never once ventured to insult anothers faith, church (or lack thereof), or intelligence in a public forum, nor have i ever suggested i knew better what someones major religious figure would say or do, or think. I'm too busy with my own faith journey to do that. But others have rarely been so kind to me. In my 19 years of life, my 3.5 years of serious Catholicism, I have been ridiculed, I have been accused repeatedly of being brainwashed and had it insinuated several times that I cannot think for myself. I've been accused of crimes and mistakes that i wasn't alive to commit, i've been labeled a bigot and a member of the 'religious right', which seems to be a code word for "hypocritical self-serving fat capitalist hick". These things are not true for me, and I believe that most Christians are, like me, sincerely trying to do their best. So I reacted to Sorchas post, and her terminology. All I want, I guess, is to feel like if i have concerns that do happen to correspond with those of politically right leaning socially conservative Christians, they will be addressed as my concerns, not swept away with a shrug as i am assigned my label. This is probably too much, and inappropriate to the forum to boot. Anyone who actually cares enough to want to continue this conversation with me can PM me. Pax, Ceitagh
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Joe Offer Date: 24 Aug 00 - 01:26 AM Well, Sorcha, you know I love you dearly, but I guess I ought to say something about this statement of yours: Problem is that modern Christianity has moved VERY VERY far from what Jesus actually did say, if MMLJ can be believed at all. They are even at odds with each other, let alone the Apocryphyal gospelists, such as Thomas.
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: ceitagh Date: 24 Aug 00 - 02:15 AM |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Wolfgang Date: 24 Aug 00 - 04:33 AM MMLJ: Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: The Shambles Date: 24 Aug 00 - 06:38 AM I have heard of the others but, 'the gospel according to Wolfgang'? (smiles)
I have given this a little more thought. I would probably be more wary of taking a light-hearted approach to another's religion, but this religion is mine. The first school I attended was a Church of England run one. We seemed to spend more time in the church than we did in the school.
No one asked me if it was OK to fill my head with more fairy stories. I did mention the 'Tooth Fairy' earlier and the image of Jesus I was feed, resembled the 'Tooth Fairy' more than it did any historical middle-eastern figure.
I think that I am entitled to react a little against this brain-washing and I consider that St Paul (the first spin-doctor) would be a far more likely presidential candidate than Jesus. I have no intention of mocking another's beliefs but it is entirely a question of faith. I am very happy for those that have this or any other faith. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: SDShad Date: 24 Aug 00 - 10:33 AM Where's my brain? Woodie Guthrie has already written this ticket's definitive campaign song (the Billy Bragg/Wilco version was on MCRadio a while back). Not to stir the coals, as I suppose some may be offended by it. I see biting social commentary in it instead, my own self. Shad |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: catspaw49 Date: 24 Aug 00 - 10:43 AM Well Shad my lad, I think your brain is in high gear. Completely forgot about that one and its a winner!!! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: katlaughing Date: 24 Aug 00 - 12:22 PM Maybe it is unfair to make generalisations, Joe, but the Christian Coalition has become such a huge political entity, it has become what most people think of as Christianity. It would be good if Christians, such as yourself and my sister, who is a Christian minister, and others could "take back" Christianity or raise it up from the bigotry etc. of their ilk, as you say. Many people who are friends and/or family of mine are being directly assaulted by the political actions, positions, and desires of the Religious Right, which of course, IMO, is a misnomer anyway.*BG* They may be in the extreme, and they may not be in the majority, but they do have the loudest voice and the most savvy about insidiously invading politics, from the grassroots level on up. So, just like I say to my friends who are members of the GOP, take it back from the extremists; get involved; let your voice be heard; and, make sure your church does the same. kat
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Mbo Date: 24 Aug 00 - 12:29 PM We are, kat. My priest calls Falwell & co. idiots. He says their all insance extremists, and he says of the Gore/Bush thing "I hope they both lose." Father Tom is great, and I believe our little Newman Center is doing a good job of spreading the word of the real ideals of Christianity, not the stereotypical patriarchal domineering zealot name we seem to have gotten over the centuries. Maybe you cannot see us, but we are here. Where else can you hear at the end of Mass "We join in friendship with John Paul, our Pope, Joseph our Bishop, John Newman, the saints, and the leaders and people of every faith..." |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Whistle Stop Date: 24 Aug 00 - 01:28 PM Kat and Mbo, I applaud you for your approach to Christianity. I'm not a Christian myself, but I like to think that Christianity at its best is loving and tolerant, and more concerned with raising people up than with putting people down. I think the Jerry Falwell/Pat Robertson/etc. brand has lost some power and influence in more recent times -- I certainly hope that's the case. It's important for all of us to remember that they do not represent all (or even most) Christians, so we should not paint all of you with the same brush. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: katlaughing Date: 24 Aug 00 - 01:35 PM Thanks, Whistle Stop, although I am not a Christian, either. Mbo, I hear you. The Episcopal Church is very active that way, too. I am sorry, though, I personally, find the Catholic Church to be hypocritical and archaic in a lot of its strictures. I know change has to come from within and I am glad there are people like you and the Padre you mention who are working for that change. I just hope everyone who is Christian and does NOT agree with the Religious Right, will GET OUT AND VOTE AGAINST THEM in every election possible, because that is where the need is very critical, IMO. Thanks, kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Whistle Stop Date: 24 Aug 00 - 01:55 PM Sorry for misunderstanding, kat. I also am not very fond of the organized Catholic church -- it seems much like a medieval government to me, that somehow has managed to survive into the 21st century without changing the way other governments from the same era have. But I recognize that a lot of (I'll assume most) Catholics are good people, kind of like most Chinese are good people even though I think their government leaves a lot to be desired. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Wesley S Date: 24 Aug 00 - 02:17 PM Whistle Stop - How GRACIOUS of you to admit that most Catholics are good people. I'm sure a lot of them were losing sleep worrying about it. I would like to point out that the followers of the Catholic church do so out of choice. Unlike China they can walk out whenever they want to. To compare the two is way out of line. INHO. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Jim the Bart Date: 24 Aug 00 - 02:40 PM There is a difference, IMHO, between having fun with and making fun of. We should be able to poke fun at ourselves and see the humor in our inevitable fallibility. If we can't, I think we're in really big trouble. I didn't see the original story that was cited as "mocking" Christ or Christians. Again, In My Humble Opinion. The story, if I am not mistaken, was mocking our elective process and contemporary values which (the story seems to state)would probably make it difficult for Jesus Himself to run for President of this here country. I like and admire Christ and a whole lot of people who are Christians. Same goes for Buddha and Buddhists, and Mohammed and Muslims, and Abdul Baha and Bahais, and I'm sorry is I left anyone out but I hope you get the point. And all I would like to say to every person of faith, regardless of the direction in which that faith is turned, is please try to see the humor in the object of your beliefs from time to time. A rigid, unbending, untractable, humorless set of beliefs shatters much too easily under the stress that life in this world creates. I can't imagine that any of the iconic figures at the center of any religion would not be able to laugh at him or herself. I can't help but believe that God is laughing at us right now. Finding humor in something does not necessarily mean disrespecting it. But that's just my opinion. And you know what a goose I am. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Whistle Stop Date: 24 Aug 00 - 02:56 PM Wesley, it was a poor analogy -- excuse me. All I meant to do was to clarify that I was only criticizing the Catholic church, not Catholics as people. I admit that I could have expressed it better, and perhaps I should be more careful when offering comments on a thread that involves such a sensitive topic as this. Mea culpa -- don't be mad at me, okay? |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: wysiwyg Date: 24 Aug 00 - 03:06 PM One of the problems, kat, is that those of us who are engaged in doing exactly what you exhort us to do find our time, energy, and passion attritted seriously by attacks on the whole Christian picture by those who see only the broken parts that were used to hurt them in the past. I handle such comments like this, when they come to me personally, like this-- "OK, gotta go enslave some more stupid people at church tonight, can't talk right now." What I want is for more people, if they claim to be intelligent and tolerant, to do their share to see the whole picture more clearly. When they don;t do this, and take a position that influences others, they make our work that much harder and slower. It polarizes, and thus any movement in any direction becomes rather frozen. And I would ask that people see the individuals in it as clearly as you see the mass movements that impinge upon you. And to extrapolate from that example of people you know, to see their place in the whole picture, and add that perception to your perception of the whole. When we fall silent, out of fear of persecution or ridicule, or just out of exhaustion at the effort to work against this tide, we become invisible. We have a responsibility to remain visible anyway, but we are only human and sometimes we fall, too. (I'd like to have evolved beyond this, and use my prayer time more constructively, but this is still an area of struggle for me and for many others. So... somebody who wants to reply on this, how about you just pray for me instead!!) Seeing this situation more clearly is to see the living Body of Christ in action. It is THAT living Body, made up of the individual members exercising their gifts and talents as best we can, who are The Church. The rest of what you see is the mere church, lower case, the organization, the structure often used in oppression-- and that church has no right to the judgmental claims it makes on the world. My belief is that it is simply a mistake being perpetrated upon the planet by good people in the grip of old baggage and/or counterfeit spiritual powers, aided by the too-human desire to belong to something, anything, that opens the way to the spiritual life. And if people really want the "Bad Guys" to change, there is still no subsititute for actually getting to know another human being. Without the relationship for dialog, nothing changes too much. Without respect and real interest, such a relationship does not flourish. Without a shared passion for what is real, and what people actually experience, there is only opinion. I cry sometimes-- deeply, wild wanton weeping-- over the fact that discussions like this very one take the place of real discussion about what you, I, anyone, actually EXPERIENCES. This CAN be done. I have spent the last 6 months building a relationship with someone of a very different orientation, to get to the beginning of that conversation. It's about time. Without his having done his share of the work to get to the starting point, I don't think it would have been possible. It took a real act of will to stay in comunication even when we disagreed on the deepest things you can think of. It is now the best friendship I have ever had, and shows signs of being something eternal and valuable to the world around each of us. And there is nothing now that we cannot effectively discuss, baggage and all, because we built in the tools to handle the bumped feelings that often precede understanding and concord. I just urge people to stop the button pushing, and THINK, and pass up the chance to take cheap shots that seem funny. It just is not the best way to get at the issues involved. I would love to hear from anyone who has also built the kind of friendship I am talking about, across any apparent barrier. And I would love to build more of them, as well. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Joe Offer Date: 24 Aug 00 - 04:08 PM I call myself part of the "loyal opposition" of the Catholic Church. Many people find this disturbing, because they cannot see how I can belong to a church unless I completely agree with everything that church says and does. They think that if I disagree with the Catholic Church, then I should go and find another church that fits my beliefs. Well, I don't see it that way. I see the Catholic Church as a tradition I grew up in, a home where I feel very comfortable, a religion that belongs to me just as much as it belongs to the pope. I had 16 years of Catholic education, and the last 8 years were in a seminary, so I think I have a good understanding of the workings of the Catholic Church. I know its good points, and its bad ones - and I intend to work the rest of my life to do what I can to fix what's wrong. I don't think I took a vow of blind obedience when I got baptized. Certainly, I believe more-or-less the same things most Catholics believe - but I think that most Catholics have some disagreements with some of the "official" teachings. I think that's the way it should be. We are individuals, and we should never fit perfectly into a mold somebody else designs for us. Realistically, though, you can't expect any organization - or any individual, for that matter - to be perfect. You can hope they will strive for perfection, but you'd better be able to expect that they will fail to reach the mark most of the time. It also might be better if we were to judge organizations by their members, not by their leaders. Would it be fair to judge Americans by the actions of Bill Clinton and Congress? Also, it might be a good idea not to judge anything by what you see on television. Every Friday, I work with five terrific nuns and a number of volunteers at Wellspring Women's Center in Sacramento, a drop-in center for women who live in the toughest part of town. Those nuns do every thing in their power to give our guests a feeling of dignity and self-worth. Nobody lines up for anything - but if somebody has a need, it's taken care of. When you walk into the place, you get the feeling that everybody is having a good time. It's a place of joy and goodness. I think it's what Christianity is supposed to be - and I believe it happens, very effectively, all over the world. The trouble is, television cameras get in the way and usually can't record this kind of work; and the sisters don't want to waste their money on television time, anyhow. I guess it's a reality I have to accept. Society listens to the people who spend the bucks to buy television time, and so it has come to pass that people like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson and Jim Bakker have defined Christianity for the viewing public. That's a horrible shame, and I don't know what to do about it. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: SINSULL Date: 24 Aug 00 - 04:30 PM And the wimmin are passed over, AGAIN!!! No Kat, Read it carefully. Who do you think Lotus Blossom is? |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: wysiwyg Date: 24 Aug 00 - 05:33 PM Aw Joe, my dear friend, lovely. Thanks for sharing all that. I love Mother Angelica on Catholic TV. Lots of old stuff and some rather strong sin-blaming, but such a sweet dearie and so obviuosly full of love for Jesus. I follow what I can from her and leave the rest till I understand more. Benny Hinn on TV has what "seems" like theology "closer" to "mine" than Mother A's, but it is so obviously trumped up TV tripe that I see nothing real in it except for some of the adherents' faith and faces. I like to think I belong to the Church of the Real Deal. I have come to believe that many of my non-Christian friends somehow do, too, even though I can't yet explain it in terms that should fit what else I believe. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Mbo Date: 24 Aug 00 - 05:38 PM Uh oh! Father Tom doesn't like Mother Angelica that well. He said she complains too much about petty things that don't mean much in the longrun. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: wysiwyg Date: 24 Aug 00 - 06:02 PM Oh she'd just love him out of that, Mbo! ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Whistle Stop Date: 25 Aug 00 - 08:07 AM I have actually seen this Mother Angelica. It appears to me that she puts most of her time and effort into selling overpriced, tacky little trinkets to the viewers, based on the implication that the "true" Christians will want this junk, and should serve God by buying it, rather than serving Mammon by hanging onto their money. In other words, she preys on the insecurities and good intentions of the gullible, in a cynical attempt to take their money. And she is none too subtle about it. I have an aunt (an old woman herself) who is susceptible to this sort of thing, and it's heartbreaking to see her house filled with all this crap while her savings dwindle. In my view Mother Angelica looks like a sweet old lady, but what she is doing is evil, pure and simple. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: kendall Date: 26 Aug 00 - 08:18 AM I'm afraid I know too much "Real" history to swallow the dogma of any sect. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Little Hawk Date: 26 Aug 00 - 03:02 PM Hey guys, I am a Christian. I'm also a pagan, a Taoist, a Buddhist (moderately so), a Medicine Way practitioner, and a Bahai. I have been an atheist, but I discarded that back around 1969 or thereabouts. Might have been an agnostic for a while too, that's a little hard to pin down, though. I would be quite willing to be a Muslim or a Hindu, but haven't looked into those too deeply yet. I will put up with any religion which is willing to put up with the other religions. I have been known to attack the traditional Christian churches pretty strongly from time to time. This in no way indicates any disrespect toward Jesus. There is no one I have a higher regard for than him, and I believe he taught and demonstrated the Truth. I do not see too many churches that live up to that Truth. I see some good people in all churches who do, however. God blesses you, and so do I. There ya have it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Joe Offer Date: 26 Aug 00 - 04:46 PM I have to say that I have real trouble accepting Mother Angelica. She seems to view faith as a weapon to wield against the infidels, whoever they may be. She's waged war against some pretty respectable middle-of-the-road Catholics, including Cardinal Mahony of Los Angeles. She is NOT part of the mainstream of the Catholic Church - but she can afford to buy television time. Like I say, it's the people who buy television time who are defining Christianity for the world, and it's a shame. I suppose the rest of us could try to fight back by buying television time ourselves, but I'm afraid that television is not a good way to convey the essence of what is good about religious faith. The only way to effectively convey it is by one-on-one contact. Hugs, smiles, sympathy, and a listening ear are effective tools - but none of these tools work on television. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: catspaw49 Date: 26 Aug 00 - 04:50 PM Far out.....Joe whupped up!!! A double post from father Joebro.....I guess you REALLY can't stand her can you? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: katlaughing Date: 26 Aug 00 - 07:01 PM Goodonya Joe, but it's not just the one who buy tv time; more importantly, IMO, are the ones who quietly and insidiously work their ways on to school boards, city councils, etc. with the express purpose of furthering their extremist agendas. They had a very clear cut plan to guide them, which started about 25 years ago and they've been very successul. I've watched them almost take over the school board here. That is why I get so hot for people to go out and VOTE in every election. It's the only way we can really make a dent and let anyone know what we think of how they are doing things. Thanks, kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: DougR Date: 26 Aug 00 - 09:21 PM But kat, those people are voted in, because the majority of those voting, voted for them. Does that mean that the majority of the community wanted them in office? Not necessarily. If the majority does not like the outcome of an election, howver, there are provisions for recall, you know. It is possible, I suppose, that the majority of the community are satisfied with those elected also. If that's the case, you have a tough roe to hoe because you are siding with the minority. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Little Hawk Date: 26 Aug 00 - 09:32 PM As long as a majority doesn't persecute minorities and force them to "toe the line", I don't mind. As long as minorities don't try to force others to toe their line, I don't mind. Live and let live. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: catspaw49 Date: 26 Aug 00 - 09:38 PM Say Doug....Isn't that "row" instead of "roe?"......OR was that a Freudian thing? ***BSEG*** Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: GUEST,Luther Date: 26 Aug 00 - 10:37 PM so, how many Freudians does it take to hoe roe? Two: one to hoe, and one to hold the penis -- oops, I mean mother -- dammit, THE STURGEON!!! one to hold the sturgeon.
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: katlaughing Date: 26 Aug 00 - 11:40 PM DougeR, good point, but I don't believe it is the majority. When you examine the voting records of the American public it is pathetic how few really get out and vote; while so many complain and most likely didn't do a damn thing to make any difference, esp. vote! Nice catch, Spaw!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: DougR Date: 27 Aug 00 - 01:22 AM Spaw, you got me cold! Should have been row. kat, you could well be right. Perhaps it doesn't represent the majority. If it doesn't that surely should motivate the majority to bring about change. Right? DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: GUEST,Sgt. Maj. Raoul De La Bande, RFC, Ppd , Hm Date: 27 Aug 00 - 02:10 AM The single most effective means of communication yet devised. And we waste it. I am not deeply religious by any means, but I do think that if the dude was here, and we can give any credibility to the accounts of his words or actions, he would have been on this thing. Somehow. Not just talking, bullshitting, but somehow. I just want to cry when I read this shit sometimes. We got problems in this world. People are either starving or getting stomped by someone everywhere all the time, and for the most part, this thing remains a source of entertainment. It is so fantastic to be able to talk to anyone anywhere and share ideas all the way across the world, you'd think we could sort out some of the misery stuff.... I mean with all of us intelligent , caring people, having all of this spare time to write and argue about music and culture and character and how long to cook the perfect boiled egg you would think we had the team, the plan, the ...... |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: wysiwyg Date: 27 Aug 00 - 02:13 AM I think youse guys are watching the one show Mother A does and not the OTHER one, which I watch, where she is teaching and sharing about her relationship with Jesus. It's EVEN BETTER THAN MUDCAT, AND EVEN BETTER THAN talking TO MY FAVE mUDCAT BUDDY on the phone. cALL ME CRAZY BUT WHEN YOU PICK ON mOTHER a i WILL THINK you ARE CRAZY. ~s~ dAMN Capslock! |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: hesperis Date: 27 Aug 00 - 04:26 AM I thought it was funny. In a too serious way of course, because in a way, it isn't funny that we would probably just crucify him again if he were actually here. The thought of Jesus running for President is actually, somewhat painful. Why do humans screw up his message? Why do we not have political leaders who actually live that deep and kind faith, and bring it into all levels of politics? Why do we continue to treat human beings with disrespect, and a lack of true caring, and worship money, and worship power over others? Terry Pratchett: "treating people as things, that's where it starts." That's where the problem starts. Why? Why do we keep doing that, even with his message before us? Although I am not Christian, many people assume that I am of that faith. I have a deep respect for Jesus Christ, as a person, a man, and a leader. Maybe that makes me a Christian, I don't know. What I do know, is that many of the beliefs that are common around me, I do not believe in, and I will not identify myself with those beliefs. I consider the practice of self-sacrifice, as practised in the Christian Church in general, to be extremely unhealthy... (But that's a whole other discussion. *g*) If I am with Christians who I know share my beliefs and my struggles to live those beliefs, then I will say I am a Christian, and they treat me as one of them, and I am one of them. "For he that is not against us is on our part." In the same way, unless I am with people who understand that Witches are people who a) don't even believe in the devil, much less worship it, b) don't do anything else of what the popular nightmare-making machine says they do, such as take over people's bodies or minds, fly on broomsticks, etc. ad nauseum, the movie "The Craft", bla, bla, bla, c) DO care for humanity and for the Earth we live in, I will not use the word 'Witch' unless I have some idea of the associations it is likely to bring up. (And I hope that the people here in Mudcat will respect me enough to ask questions before judging me on the word I just used.) When people treat other people as evil incarnate, for whatever reason, I get angry. To the Christians who are tired of people assuming things about your faith, I understand you perfectly. My faith isn't even recognized as a religion in some places. Maybe it's better that way. It isn't bastardized in schools or used to justify corrupt, unhealthy policies and actions. I am reluctant to even name my faith, it is so unnaccepted in this world. (So-called 'Christians' blackened, hung, and burned the good name of my faith.) I know many good people, some even consider themselves to be Christian. I do the best I can. This makes me a human being. Blessed Be, hesperis |
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Subject: Lyr Add: JOHN BALL (Sydney Carter) From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 27 Aug 00 - 07:23 AM Well to me it read like the satire was aimed at the US political/media electoral circus.
And at the "Religious" Right - which should always be written with inverted commas, since so much of what they seem to stand for and try to associate with Christianity is totally at odds which the Beatitudes.
We don't have Sydney Carter songs on the DT, because of some hassle with his American publishers (probably down to Michael Flatley's bastardisation of the Lord of the Dance), but here's one anyway which sums it up pretty well:
Who'll be the lady
Eve is the lady,
Labour and spin
All shall be ruled
I know someone who used to join enthusiastically in that one, and thought it was John Paul, not John Ball, the priest from Thaxted in Essex who was executed from his part in the Peasant's Revolt. And at times it could indeed be John Paul (which doesn't mean I think he's on the ball all the time, but who is?) But I can't see it fitting in with the agenda of the "Religious" Right so far as I can see. But then I'm a long way away. Maybe they're being misrepresented... |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Little Hawk Date: 27 Aug 00 - 03:39 PM hesperis - "Do as you will and harm no one" Indeed, blessed be. Little Hawk Guest, Sgt. Major Raul - I understand your concerns perfectly, and share them. If you want to find the source of evil and misery in this world...just follow the money trail. Every time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: TonyK Date: 27 Aug 00 - 11:34 PM I didn't think the article was funny or very well written and not because I disagree with his ideology. It was just a bunch of snippetts spewed out on the page and needed a lot of fine tuning. I think he should have stayed in school. Religion is a touchy one. I identify a lot with Joe and have been trying to make a difference in my parish in many ways for 14 years and have gotten little support. I caught myself editing the prayers said in Mass one day and realized I was in the wrong pew (take that any way you want). I'm now in the process of letting go of the old and seeking out a new group that's doing what I feel is the right stuff. It feels very right for me. I wish you well with yours. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Willie-O Date: 28 Aug 00 - 02:46 PM I just read through this whole thread, which I have been avoiding as the number of posts suggested it was turning into a theology-slinging match, as indeed it has, sort of. I thought the Barrett Brown piece was durn funny, and I hope to see more of his writing in the future. It's called political satire, folks. It wouldn't be funny if it didn't ruffle a few feathers. And if everybody thought it was funny, it wouldn't be satire at all. It would be a freakin miracle. (Then I'd have to reassess my belief system, and that would just piss me off.) Many interesting personal takes have been revealed. Just amazes little old atheist me how many different passions are aroused by putting that JC guy in a different satirical context. I have a hard time figuring that out, particularly the question of how people in the year 2000 know what an Eastern mystic "really meant" two millennia ago. (And why it matters. It doesn't to me; obviously it matters very deeply to some of you, and others don't have a spiritual commitment to the question but think you know what he was about anyway. Not trying to be critical, as such--I just don't get ANY of it.) A bunch of personal remarks snipped here. Maybe I'll send a couple of personals. Maybe not... you never know with |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Aug 00 - 05:16 PM Hey Willie - Lakota Indians in the 1860's would probably have considered it a miracle of sorts to encounter an atheist! Ironical, ain't it? (They had probably never heard of such a concept...certainly not from their own people, anyway.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: GUEST,Biblius Date: 28 Aug 00 - 07:57 PM I support everyone's right to a rich fantasy life- sexual, religious, what have you. However, individuals that have a compulsion to share these fantasies with others- in many cases complete strangers- exhibit very poor taste at best, and suffer from serious mental difficulties at worst... and are probably 'more to be pitied than censured'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Mbo Date: 28 Aug 00 - 08:05 PM To settle us all down: "Everyone should have something to believe in...I believe I'll go fishing." --Henry David Thoreau |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Frankham Date: 29 Aug 00 - 07:42 PM Hey everyone Woody Guthrie was there first with this idea. Check out "Mermaid Avenue". Woody wrote his lyric in about 1940's or so. I personally think Jesus was a socialist. Or a communist in the largest (not Bolshevik) sense of the word. I think that Woody thought so too. See his ballad of Jesus Christ as well as his Jesus For President song. I don't think Jesus would waste his time running for pres. He'd have to hit up some campaign finances that would go against his grain. If he ran, he wouldn't be elected anyway because not enough people are around to practice what he preached. Now Constantine or St. Thomas Acquinas, that's a different story. I thought it was an interesting idea. Woody was first. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Aug 00 - 07:47 PM Back up the thread a ways Frank, that had been brought up, but I believe you just added one more additional that hadn't. Maybe we should send these in to somebody in one of the parties and have them respond.LOL(:<)) Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: Little Hawk Date: 29 Aug 00 - 11:09 PM Ah, yes, Biblius - fantasies... Like believing that voting for the present major political parties is going to actually change what's wrong with things in this society... Like believing that winning a million bucks on "Survivor" is a worthwhile objective... Like believing that life is hard and cruel and people are basically evil... Like believing that a university degree will make you wiser and more valuable than the person without one... Like believing that money will solve your problems... Like believing that the western Europeans brought civilization to the Americas... Yes, like you said, " individuals that have a compulsion to share these fantasies with others- in many cases complete strangers- exhibit very poor taste at best, and suffer from serious mental difficulties at worst... and are probably 'more to be pitied than censured'. " Just like you said. I agree entirely. (sarcasm, I hope you realize...)
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Subject: RE: BS: JC Makes a Bid for the US Presidency From: thosp Date: 29 Aug 00 - 11:27 PM well it's sure been a mental difficulity for me! peace (Y) thosp |