Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design

Subject: New Mudcat Logo for T-shirts
From: Max
Date: 29 Aug 97 - 12:00 AM

Ok, I got something to show you all. Before you jump down my throat for this, please remember that we are going to create more than one version of tshirts for you all. This is the design for the our (my team) tshirt. The fronts will look something like this:

Also on the front or back or another shirt will be the digitrad logo.

For now...

Subject: RE: New Mudcat Logo for T-shirts
From: Sharon
Date: 29 Aug 97 - 11:24 PM

Nice work Max... Am anxious to see the other teams' designs though.

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Aug 97 - 12:56 AM

No doubt, Max, there will be some who will start another round of banjo jokes once they see this logo. Are you going to make an accordion version of the logo, too?
-Joe Offer, who would be proud if he could play either instrument, or any instrument at all.-

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Max
Date: 30 Aug 97 - 01:21 AM

Maybe the back won't say anything. and the site is going to be officially at www.mudcat.org in a few weeks. It will also always stay at www.deltablues.com. They will mirror earchother.

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Max
Date: 30 Aug 97 - 02:38 AM

Here's another guy, needs some work. I say we have 100 logos...

violin

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Aug 97 - 03:08 AM

Now, that fiddlin' mudcat really has class. Good work, Max!
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Bill
Date: 30 Aug 97 - 03:37 AM

Howdy Max,

The fiddlin' cat is not bad, but finding a significant use for banjos -- like a catfish hatchery is really inventive. I just hope that you're not planning on only those button t-shirts as in the picture. I prefer to wear the plain t's and only really care about the front design since the back is usually covered by another shirt.

Allinkausay,
Bill

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: alison
Date: 30 Aug 97 - 09:12 AM

Hi

So far the fiddling fish gets my vote.

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Max
Date: 30 Aug 97 - 12:13 PM

Not really taking votes on these. The "other team" is all of you. If there is anyone who has a logo or wants to make a logo let me know. We will be having a lot of different images representing us as the days go on. The image of the shirt I made is just an example image I stole of another site I did. It is not the t-shirt we will make. I do get the impression though that we can never satisfy everyone. As the nature of the Mudcat has always been to let you decide, we have created a hopeless endevor for concensus.

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Aug 97 - 03:37 PM

...I have to admit that I'm at the age where I make sure that the shirts I buy have a pocket for my reading glasses. I'll betcha a large number of people here fall into the same category.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Peter T.
Date: 30 Aug 97 - 05:46 PM

Dear Max,

Um, (1) think guitar for non-fiddlers, non-banjoists;
(2) More whiskers, I think;
(3) Does team shirts imply that there are going to grades and hierarchies of shirts? I thought these shirts were supposed to fight fascism.....

Max Vobiscum,

Peter

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Whippoorwill
Date: 30 Aug 97 - 07:58 PM

I wish you guys would quit picking on fascists - We buy shirts, too.

Joe, I agree. At our age, pockets are a must, for the mini-cassette recorder, if nothing else. Buttons and collars, as well.

Max, the concept of the second logo is great, no matter what instrument he plays.

Mudcat Uber Alles!

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Helen
Date: 30 Aug 97 - 08:13 PM

I like both designs - and I'm hoping there'll be a harping mudcat someday too.

Helen

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Shula
Date: 30 Aug 97 - 09:43 PM

RE: slogan

I share the happy notion that folk and blues do, indeed, undermine fascism (and any other excessively authoritarian forms of social organization, as well). However, I wonder if a better, or, at least, mellower, slogan might not be this quote from Arlo Guthrie's "Alice's Restaurant:" "Ya wanta end war 'n' stuff, ya gotta sing LOUD!"

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Sharon
Date: 30 Aug 97 - 09:49 PM

I agree with helen. A harp would be nice, since I know I can't hope for a hammered dulcimer. Too much to ask for........

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: RS
Date: 31 Aug 97 - 02:22 PM

I'm not an expert on t-shirt design, but I believe it's possible to have a variety of designs on hand, with a variety of t-shirt colours, styles, and sizes, and just get them made up as ordered. This might satisfy (almost) everyone, and avoid the need for consensus!

For example, the "Cows" company (based in Prince Edward Island, in Canada) has a catalogue with many different t-shirt designs, and when you order you also choose your own size, style, and background colour. (You can see their website at http://www.cows.ca - it's not musical but it's fun!)

Unlike Peter T., I'd prefer less prominent whiskers (or is this needed for biological accuracy???). Like Shula, I prefer the Arlo Guthrie quote.

P.S., what about mugs & buttons, once you're at it?

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Sharon
Date: 31 Aug 97 - 08:16 PM

I'll go with Guthrie also

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 31 Aug 97 - 11:13 PM

The fiddling mudcat quoting Arlo sound good to me.

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 31 Aug 97 - 11:18 PM

In the fifty-odd years I've been involved with folk music, I've never yet observed a fascist killed nor a war averted by anyone's singing. If we must have a quote (or a paraphrase of one) how about "This song is your song..."

Seems to me to be more approprite.

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Sep 97 - 11:55 AM

oh, Dick...you have just never seen how the facists fall when 'I' sing directly at them!!..*wink*..(what do you mean I need more mouthwash?..)...still, I see your point...*going off to think about quotes & slogans...hmmmm*

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Shula
Date: 01 Sep 97 - 01:00 PM

With deference to the our venerable benefactor, Mr. Greenhaus, I just rather fancied the line from Mr. Guthrie, the younger, because of the insidiously offhand and ambiguously all-encompassing drollery of the " 'n stuff." It seemed to me entirely devoid of any sort of militancy.

Of course, on a T-shirt, we couldn't hear the deadpan delivery. I confess it was presumptuous of me to assume its universal familiarity, even in this forum.

Also, unless the reader were familiar with the context of the quote, near the end of the marathon "shaggy dog" story/song, Arlo having just scolded his audience with, "That 'uz terr'ble!" for their half-hearted and disorganised effort on the chorus, the gentle irony would be subverted. So p'raps something less off-beat would, indeed, better serve the purpose, though I doubt you could elicit a warmer chuckle than this line frequently evokes.

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Laoise
Date: 02 Sep 97 - 04:28 AM

How about '"Come-All-Ye-Lads-n-Lassies" Website'? A typical beginning to Irish and Scottish Folk songs. If not, I also like the Arlo quote even though I don't know the song. Or how about "This Website EATS facists" which may be a little less violent?

Great ARtwork. I like the fiddle one because it would frame the logo quite nicely.

I definitely like the buttons/collar. Makes it look more professional.

Slan go foill

Laoise.

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Jon W.
Date: 02 Sep 97 - 02:55 PM

A design for each instrument would be nice - at least fiddle, guitar, banjo, mandolin, bass, tin whistle, dulcimers hammered and mountain, harp, accordian...okay, now I see the problem--where to stop? Whatever you choose, I would prefer a politically neutral yet inspiring quote on the back. How about "Dedicated to the proposition that music of the people, by the people, and for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

And of course, the website URL.

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Sep 97 - 03:31 PM

BillD- I think I was there that night, but as I recall the dead consisted of NO fascists, 3 Liberals, 2 Marxists and a misplaced Libertarian. I still think that commentaries on politics are outside the scope of both Mudcat and the DT.

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Max
Date: 02 Sep 97 - 03:32 PM

Yes, I'd say that the Mudcat represents the lack of politics.

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Shula
Date: 02 Sep 97 - 06:14 PM

Re: Jon W.'s suggested slogan: sounds just like The Mudcat's Meow to me!

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Bert
Date: 03 Sep 97 - 08:36 AM

I agree with Dick, let's keep politics out of it. I want to be able to wear this T-Shirt to work.

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Sep 97 - 10:08 AM

Yep....let's keep it non-political...if anyone has any real concrete suggestions, fine...otherwise, I'd be glad to wear the original design at the top...it's original enought to get people asking you what it's all about, and you can then proceed to drag them online with the rest of us...I think that 20 or 30 tee-shirts, each worn to 5 festivals or concerts, could easily double the number of regulars in a short time...(and the donation base!!)

hmmmm.....hot 'bout a Mudcat seated at a computer with various instruments around its chair and musical notes coming out of the speakers??

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Max
Date: 03 Sep 97 - 12:30 PM

Bill D - That's what I look like. Sitting at a computer with instruments all about and music going on... and I am the mudcat.

I think your right on when you say "it's original enought to get people asking you what it's all about". That seems to be the point to me.

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Jon W.
Date: 03 Sep 97 - 05:22 PM

I too must confess to having from time to time sat at a computer with one or more instruments around. I like it.

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: LaMarca
Date: 03 Sep 97 - 06:01 PM

Me, too! Unfortunately, since I have to do this at my workplace (we don't have a home computer, due to a combination of lack of funds and religious differences between St. Macintosh and The 1st Church of Gates), the instruments surrounding me are a spectrophotometer, a pH meter, a refrigerated microcentrifuge, etc...We Folk-Luddites keep our technology carefully separated from our acoustic instruments, for fear of horrible cross-contaminations that could result in genetically engineered organisms like electrified catfish playing the thuremin...

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Sep 97 - 02:42 AM

For those uneasy about making political statements, we could have a shirt with no words printed on it. You know, an "insturmental" version.
[groan]
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Shula
Date: 04 Sep 97 - 02:55 AM

Good show, Joe!

Shula

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Sheye
Date: 04 Sep 97 - 10:40 AM

Confessions of a shadow:

I held out as long as I could but now I have to come clean... I am a follower of St. MacIntosh (thanks, Shula) and for reasons beyond my comprehension, I cannot see the logos. I have an icon appearing on my screen but when I click on it, nothing happens. Am I holding my head the wrong way?? Does this require a special chant and a dead chicken??

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Peter T.
Date: 04 Sep 97 - 11:23 AM

Dear Sheye (hope you had a good trip), Nothing to do with Macintosh -- as a follower myself. You might try checking (if you use Netscape) to see if your "Auto Load Images" is checked on (it is under Options). You might also check under "General Preferences" for your Image Preferences. Yours, Peter

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Sep 97 - 01:27 PM

"electrified catfish playing the thuremin.."

Oh, I want it! Someone has to write software to allow me to wave my hand in front of my monitor and alter the sounds of sound files I am playing...then I will have 'thureputic music' to help me thru my day! (hmmm..I suppose it wouldn't work for anyone who had Parkinson's Disease..)

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Max
Date: 30 Sep 97 - 10:17 AM

Here's a couple from Dick that I find just delightful. How about we use one of these to get the tshirt ball rolling? The limited edition (or color) may come out as soon as I get my ears above my debt.

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Bill in Alabama
Date: 30 Sep 97 - 10:57 AM

Max: My first choice would be the first design you showed. I have an eccentric phobia about appearing in public in any garment which does not have long sleeves, but I would, in any case buy that t-shirt, have it framed, and hang it in my office, where I sit for 12 hours each day, working some on the computer, with a banjo, a guitar, a mandolin, and a fiddle, each hanging within arm's reach. My stereo is usually playing classical music--go figure!

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Max
Date: 30 Sep 97 - 11:38 AM

Bill, that is exactly my office. Mandolin, Banjo, and a few guitars at my side.

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: JMike
Date: 30 Sep 97 - 11:57 AM

How about two guitars, banjo, and autoharp?

Seriously(?) I still like the original, since no one could possibly mistake a banjo based logo for anything but a group devoted to folk/mountain/bluegrass/traditional music. I also like "This website kills fascists", especially if below it we show the politician or EMI executive of choice with the caption "This fascist kills websites"....

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Martin Ryan
Date: 30 Sep 97 - 12:09 PM

Nice design - but hard on us poor a capella die-hards!

Regards

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Peter T.
Date: 30 Sep 97 - 12:24 PM

Dear Max, the second design is cleaner, and I think more versatile. It certainly works for guitar. One suggestion: why not take the central core of the second design, with the circle of lettering and the dark middle, and do an outline (like the guitar outline) for the other instruments (the banjo could maybe be even simpler, just eliminating the guitar outline and extending the neck block). For the a-cappella people, the centre could be a mouth, with an outline of a face. You would then have some continuity for each version, but slight changes -- those simple outlines -- designating each instrument. Yours, Peter

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Sep 97 - 12:30 PM

Peter: certainly feasible, and very little work. Martin - For a capellistas, we could have an open mouth with the Mudcat/DT logo in the middle. Even with tonsils, if so desired.

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Tim
Date: 30 Sep 97 - 01:32 PM

Max, you noted early on that this wasn't supposed to be a referendum, but it was inevitable, wasn't it? Although the regulars here are very shy about proffering an opinion of any kind, it was great to see them actually taking a stand on something.

I VOTE for your very first design (Mudcat jumping from Banjo). I may be wrong, but I still believe in economies of scale. One people, One T-shirt. Multiple instrument designs will surely turn this into a very expensive shirt. I also vote for the highest quality shirt available. Maybe a two or three button with a henley collar? Logo on back should be optional. I like the Arlo quote, or alternately in the same vein, Country Joe's "Listen, people, I don't know how you ever expect to stop the war if you can't sing any better than that ..." maybe a little long now that I type it out. Regardless how all this turns out, thanks Max for working on it!

Slan go foill

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Sep 97 - 04:24 PM

Max and Dick, these designs are too good to keep hidden within this thread. How about using them to decorate the Web site, like one each on the home page and on the forum page?
...oh and when the shirts come out, don't forget a pocket for reading glasses. I think many of us need them at this stage. When I hit 45, I had to throw out all my Joe Cool t-shirts because they wouldn't carry my specs.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From:
Date: 30 Sep 97 - 06:55 PM

Joe, you really don't need the pockets. You just hang your specs from the collar like all the young cool dudes do with their shades. I try that every so often, except when I bend over to tie my shoes my shades fall and break.

How about a singing/fiddling computer, or a computer with the mudcat singing on the screen? I'd draw one if I had the slightest talent in that department.

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Susan of DT
Date: 30 Sep 97 - 09:01 PM

I vote for the banjo design posted today. While I am an a capella type, no one would know if the open mouth were singing, yelling, lecturing or what?

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: dulcimer
Date: 30 Sep 97 - 09:36 PM

I vote for design 1 on the Sept 1 thread, but I like X-large because large is reall about a medium and please an all cotton option. I have trouble wearing blends after about 15 minutes. And, not to get too picky, but it do get cold in the US this time of year--long sleeve option?

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From:
Date: 30 Sep 97 - 09:55 PM

Yes, all cotton and extra large, even extra extra large. Cotton always shrinks, especially when it is bachelor types like myself doing the laundry. I know some people like long sleeve tees, but in my experience the sleeves always shrink so that they end up halfway up your forearms.

I will go for the button version, if that is going to be an option, because I might be able to get away with wearing it to work on casual days. However if you go for a golf shirt kind of thing then you have to have the logo embroidered and the cost goes up considerably.

BTW, just what is a mudcat? Is that like a carp, or the same thing that they call mudpuppies?

Subject: RE: Check this out, from Max, T-shirt Design
From: Justin
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 09:17 AM

I really like the banjo logo, although the fish's head could be improved. It looks a little too much like a dolphin, despite the whisker. The fiddler has more of a mudcat look. My vote is touch up the banjo cartoon. The banjo is great, and the colors are very good.

I'm not too sure whether I like the idea of writing on the back at all, but I disagree with Dick on the Arlo quote. It's a metaphor for, "We have to be ready to make a fuller commitment."

Also, Shula got it right when he commented on the word, "n'stuff". The poetry in that powerful little addition to the sentence should not be tossed off as casually as the word itself seems, on the surface, to have been tossed off by Arlo.