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Ye Jacobites by Name, anti-pro Jacobite?

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YE JACOBITES BY NAME


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GUEST,len wallace 15 Jan 01 - 11:06 PM
GUEST,Willie-O 15 Jan 01 - 11:11 PM
GUEST,Bruce O. 16 Jan 01 - 12:46 AM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Jan 01 - 01:14 PM
duart 17 Jan 01 - 07:39 AM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Jan 01 - 08:00 AM
GUEST 08 Feb 14 - 07:37 PM
Jack Campin 08 Feb 14 - 08:39 PM
Lighter 08 Feb 14 - 08:54 PM
Jim McLean 09 Feb 14 - 06:25 AM
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Subject: Ye Jacobites by Name, anti-pro Jacobite?
From: GUEST,len wallace
Date: 15 Jan 01 - 11:06 PM

Hello Friends,

"Ye JAcobites by Name" is indeed a Jacobite song. While the lyrics have often been attributed to Robert Burns, my question is this - The words appear as a criticism of the Jacobites. I have been told that it was written in the style of a anti-Jacobitism in order to hide the original sympathy for the Jacobites.

What say ye? Can anyone tell me its history?

Many thanks.

Len Wallace (lwallace@mnsi.net)


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Subject: RE: Ye Jacobites by Name, anti-pro Jacobite?
From: GUEST,Willie-O
Date: 15 Jan 01 - 11:11 PM

Well you know what they say, Len. If there's no one else around, a Scotsman will start an argument with himself...

So I don't doubt that it's a possibility! But I wouldn't know...

W-O


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Subject: RE: Ye Jacobites by Name, anti-pro Jacobite?
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 12:46 AM

It's obvious when you know the original version of 1746. It's in the Scarce Songs 1 file on my website. www.erols.com/olsonw


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Subject: RE: Ye Jacobites by Name, anti-pro Jacobite?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 01:14 PM

There is a sharp difference in tone. The original version, after the first verse, is not addressed to Jacobites at all, it's just a stream of invective about them. But the Burns version is directed at Jacobites sympathisers throughout, seing them not as enemies to be defeatred but as friends to be won over.

He's putting it together at a time when the Jacobites were history, there was no chance of another rising, because, even aside from any other considerations, there wasn't a viable Jacobite pretender. So the phrase "Jacobites by name" takes on a new meaning - it now means anyone using the name and the sentiments and the rhetoric in a time when the time for that is over. "There are no birds in last year's nests" as Don Quixote puts it, quoting a Spanish proverb.

If you read between the lines you can speculate that he wouldn't have been averse to another crack at the English connection, without the Jacobite trappings, and if there was a chance for victory.

So in no sense pro-Jacobite - but anti-pro Jacobite rather than anti-Jacobite, as the threads title has it.


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Subject: RE: Ye Jacobites by Name, anti-pro Jacobite?
From: duart
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 07:39 AM

Remember, when Burns wrote the lyrics to the old scots tune, he was employed as a Government customs officer in Dumfries and was trying to gain some credence as a pro- Hanoverian supporter (he had a wife and kids by this time) to eke out his meagre income as a farmer of a pretty poor small farm. I'm pretty sure in his heart he yearned for the Jacobite cause, but 40 years after the failed '45 uprising and having seen at first hand on a tour through the Highlands the utter devastation wreaked by the English forces, Burns was astute enough to know the "way the wind blows" (to quote another great poet and songster). Definitely a song of the head if not the heart.


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Subject: RE: Ye Jacobites by Name, anti-pro Jacobite?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 08:00 AM

The devastation of the Highlands wasn't only or even primarily done by the English - it was done largely by other Scots. (And carried on the Highland chiefs on their own clansmen a generation later with the Clearances.)

That's not to say that the English connection wasn't one of the key factors in all that. And I don't doubt that Burns might have wished it different. But a Jacobite at heart? More likely a Jacobin.

Ye see yon birkie ca'd "a lord"
Wha struts an' stares, an a' that?
Tho' hundreds worship at his word,
He's but a cuif, for a' that,
For a' thta, and a' thta,
His ribband, star and a' that,
The man o' independent mind,
He looks and laughs at a' that.


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Subject: RE: Ye Jacobites by Name, anti-pro Jacobite?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 07:37 PM


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Subject: RE: Ye Jacobites by Name, anti-pro Jacobite?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 08:39 PM

Burns toned it down a lot. The original (written before he was born) was a savagely anti-Jacobite rant, far too long, crude and obscure to sing. Bruce Olson posted it here:

http://mudcat.org/olson/viewpage.cfm?theurl=SONGTXT1.html#YEJACOB


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Subject: RE: Ye Jacobites by Name, anti-pro Jacobite?
From: Lighter
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 08:54 PM

Olson says that Burns used only the first stanza. So besides "toning it down," he almost entirely rewrote it.

Compare his creation of the memorable "Killiecrankie" from, evidently, just a couple of lines in two long-winded broadsides:

thread.cfm?threadid=28904#3522372


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Subject: RE: Ye Jacobites by Name, anti-pro Jacobite?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 09 Feb 14 - 06:25 AM

Burns took a raging anti Jacobite song, crudely written as Jack Campin said, and turned into an anti war song.


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