Origins: Whiskey In The Jar

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Nov 08 - 08:58 PM

There is a snippet of Lena Bourne Fish singing this on the Warner recording which has been digitally remastered on THIS PAGE. I note it is spelled "Gilgarrah."

Subject: Lyr Add: WHISKEY IN THE JAR (from Bodleian)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 Dec 09 - 01:33 PM

From the Bodleian ballad collection, Johnson Ballads 612A, "between 1846 and 1854."

[These versions are very similar: Harding B 11(4152), Harding B 15(372a), Johnson Ballads 612A, and 2806 b.10(109).]


WHISKEY IN THE JAR

I am a young fellow that never yet was daunted,
And oftentimes had money, but seldom it was wanted,
For robbing for gold, it was my own folly,
Paying for good liquor to treat deceitful Molly.
Musha ring a ding a ra.

As I was going over Calvert mountains,
I met with Captain Everet, his money he was counting,
First I drew my pistols, and then I drew my rapier,
Stand and deliver, for I am your bold deceiver.
Musha ring, &c.

Oh! when I got his money, it was a pretty penny,
I put it in my pocket and took it home to Molly,
When she swore by what was good, that she never would deceive me,
But the devil take the women, for they never can be easy.
Musha ring, &c.

Being both wet and weary, I went to Molly's chamber,
I went to Molly's chamber for to have a slumber,
When she flew unto my pistols and she loaded them with—water,
I was dragged out of my bed just as like a lamb to the slaughter.
Musha ring, &c.

It was early next morning, between six and seven,
Surrounded by policemen, and likewise Captain Everet,
I fired off my pistols and powder, but was mistaken,
I fired off the water and a prisoner I was taken.
Musha ring, &c.

There's some take delight in fishing and fowling,
Whilst others take delight in hearing cannons roaring,
But I take delight in being brisk and jolly,
And in paying for good liquor to treat deceitful Molly.
Musha ring, &c.

Oh! I have got two brothers, and they are in the army,
One is in Cork, and the other in Killarney,
If I had them here to-night, oh, wouldn't I make them jolly,
I would rather have them here than you deceitful Molly.
Musha ring, &c.

It was early next morning, between six and seven,
It was up against my cell door the turnkey he was bawling,
When I out with my shackles and knocked the turnkey down,
And I made my escape out of fair Philip's Town.
Musha ring, &c.

E. Hodges, from PITTS Wholesale Toy & Marble Warehouse, 31, Dudley Street, late Monmouth Street, 7 Dials, [London]

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,Tim Eriksen
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 09:13 AM

Just discovered this ancient discussion. My two cents worth is that I spent some time hanging out with (folklorist) Peter Kennedy in the late '80s, who claimed to be responsible for discovering the Dubliners and also for teaching them this song, which he learned from Frank Warner who got it from Grammy Fish.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 05:09 AM

What a nice informative thread.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 05:01 PM

At one time or another, nearly every folk singer or group active during the "great folk scare" seems to have done a version of this. I stand guilty as well. It's a great up-tempo rouser and a good change of pace after doing something like "Johnny, I Hardly Knew Ye" or some similar dirge. I don't think many of us researched it well back then; we just glommed onto a version that sounded good to us and made it work. Looking at the origins and various permutations of it, in hindsight, is a great read. Thanks to all.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 09:48 AM

a man caled james said thin lizzy were the best at singing this song but here is what i think of that recording. being a singer and accordian player i think the thin lizzy recording is rubbish. when i played in bravehart with martin i remember my mum saying because of the non sense chorus we were not allowed to perform this song at all. 1 thing i can say is the clancey brothers did not record this song because i have got 3 albums of them and there is not a sign of the song whisky in the jar and only pub singers would do this song. my own opinion on doing a version on this song is that the old folks at the day centers and homes would not understand what the chorus is. i think it is a nice tune but i have found no songs that have better words that have nothing to do with drinking.

Subject: Lyr Add: WHISKEY IN THE JAR (from The Dubliners)
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 03:08 PM

The version I sing is from a recording by The Dubliners:

As I was going over the far famed Kerry mountains
I met with Captain Farrell and his money he was counting
I first produced me pistol and I then produced me rapier
Saying "Stand and deliver for you are a bold deceiver".

Chorus
Musha ring dumma do dumma da, whack fol the daddio
Whack fol the daddio, there's whiskey in the jar

I counted out his money and it made a pretty penny
I put it in me pocket and I took it home to Jenny
She sighed and she swore that she never would deceive me
But the devil take the women for they never can be easy

I went unto my chamber all for to take a slumber
I dreamt of gold and jewels and for sure it was no wonder
But Jenny drew me charges and she filled them up with water
And sent for Captain Farrell to be ready for the slaughter

'Twas early in the morning just before I rose to travel
Up comes a band of footmen and likewise Captain Farrell
I first produced me pistol for she'd stolen away me rapier
But I couldn't shoot the water so a prisoner I was taken

Now there's some take delight in the carriages a-rolling
And others take delight in the hurling and the bowling
But I take delight in the juice of the barley
And courting pretty fair maids in the morning bright and early

If anyone can aid me 'tis me brother in the army
If I can find his station in Cork or in Killarney
And if he'll go with me we'll go roaming in Kilkenny
And I'm sure he'll treat me better than me own me sporting Jenny

(bowling presumably referring to 'lane bowling')

Rog

PS I swap the last two verses.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST
Date: 02 May 11 - 04:23 PM

I'm a college student, writng a paper on "Whiskey in the Jar." Thanks guys, this thread has been an awesome resource.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 03 May 11 - 03:33 PM

I found this depressing. I bought the Champions of Folly album off Roy when it first came out, And I read here that it was deleted years ago, and then i saw that was back in '97.

You can't help wondering, how much longer til i get deleted?

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 11:37 PM

I listened to this song on a Dubliners "best of "album my dad has. Good song. Understatement probably, but it is great. BTW, "Mack The Knife" from The Threepenny Opera is one of my favourite songs, and I listened to WITJ because of the possible connection. I like that possible but unlikely connection between these two songs- that this was the inspiration for the betrayal scene in Beggar's Opera/Threepenny Opera).

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 08:29 AM

Perhaps the Captain Farrell referred to is this guy

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 11:45 PM

From a yahoo Q n' A board. I was looking down this lengthy thread hoping to find an elaboration on the following:

Whack for my daddy-o, there's Whiskey in the jar-o!

I love that song, but what does that mean?

It's a bastardisation of the phrase "whack fol di daddy oh",which is a form of 'mouth music' which is an Irish form of scat singing,which is using sounds rather than actual words.Scat is popular in jazz using sounds like 'do be ooten doo' etc.Irish Mouth Music uses sounds like 'Diddly aye an dooten' and 'skittly aye dum do'
I know,sounds like a wind up,but I can assure you it's completely gen.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 11:55 PM

damn, I just realized how many similar threads on here were spooling into this garment! plenty of elaboration, eh? goodness.

Subject: Lyr Add: THERE'S WHISKEY IN THE JAR (from LOC)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 10:59 AM

From a broadside printed in New York, held by the Library of Congress:

No. 122.
THERE'S WHISKEY IN THE JAR.

I am a sporting fellow, I never yet was daunted,
Money in my pocket whenever it was wanted.
Robbing for gold, 'twas my own folly,
Sure I'd risk my life for you, my sporting Molly.

Rack fal de ra,
Rack fal de raddy, O,
Rack fal de raddy, O,
There's whiskey in the jar.

As I was crossing the mulberry mountain,
I met with Captain Kelly, his money he was counting,
At first I drew my pistol, then I drew my rapier,
Stand and deliver for I am your money-taker.

Rack fal de ra, &c.

He handed me twenty pounds—'twas a pretty penny-o,
I took it home to Molly, she said she'd ne'er desaive me,
I took it home to Molly, she said she'd ne'er desaive me,
But the devil's 'mongst the women for they never can be aisy

Rack fal de ra, &c.

I went into Molly's chamber for to take a slumber,
I went into Molly's chamber, not knowing of no danger,
When I was sleeping, its well she knew the matter,
The unloaded the pistols, and filled them full of water.

Rack fal de ra, &c.

Early the next morning between six and seven,
She house was surrounded--likewise with Captain Kelly,
I sprang for my pistols, being very much mistaken,
I fired off the water, and a prisoner I was taken.

Rack fal de ra, &c.

I have to little brothers enlisted in the army,
One of them's in Cork, the other's in Killarney.
If they were here to-night, I would be free and jolly,
I'd rather have them here to-night than you deceitful Molly.

Rack fal de ra, &c.

J. WRIGLEY, Publisher. of Songs, Ballad's, and Toy Books, Conversation, Age, and Small Playing Cards, Alphabet Wood Blocks, Valentines, Motto Verses, and Cut Motto Paper, &c. No. 27 Chatham Street. (OPPOSITE CITY HALL PARK) NEW YORK.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,Morgan42
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 10:06 PM

When I stumbled upon this thread and saw how long it was I very nearly skipped reading it. But I'm so glad I read the whole thing! Thanks to everyone who contributed! <3

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Jul 20 - 10:25 AM

A ferret sent me this today...

https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/origins-whiskey-jar

Thought y'all might enjoy.

Also I just tried to look up Tequila in the Jar but just got some crap, not the song to which I referred lo these many posts ago.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Nov 21 - 06:29 PM

Daily Commercial Register (Sandusky, Ohio) (April 5, 1860), p. 3:

"'Rory O. Moore'...led a number of his countrymen to the 'Irishman's Shanty,' where he assured them 'There's Whisky in the Jug.'"

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Alvin-Songster
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 09:02 AM

I learned this song from the Peter, Paul & Mary album A Song Will Rise, and they called it "Gilgarra Mountain." It's a favorite of one of my cousins, so I still sing it.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Nov 23 - 05:56 PM

T. S. Kenderdine, "California Revisited, 1858-1897" (Newton, Pa.: Doylestown Publishing Company, 1898):

“There were some good singers among our [ox-]drivers [crossing the plains in 1858]. While the songs were not refined they were not objectionable. One of these was...‘There’s Whiskey in the Jar;’ now no longer heard; unless in the homes of ‘Missouri Pikers.’ I can hear its chorus yet ringing out on the night air in senseless verbiage – with a buffalo or wolf accompani[m]ent on the distant plains:

             O! Ring a jing a jar
             Whack, thwack, my laddie oh!
             There’s whiskey in the jar.

But we had sentimental ditties too. ‘Dutch Joe’ would sing one beginning—

             My old mother and I did part,
             When I was very young,
             Her memory still clings round my heart—
             How close to me she clung!

That is all I can recollect, but I have seen rude men affected at the recital."

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Nov 23 - 05:56 PM

T. S. Kenderdine, "California Revisited, 1858-1897" (Newton, Pa.: Doylestown Publishing Company, 1898):

“There were some good singers among our [ox-]drivers [crossing the plains in 1858]. While the songs were not refined they were not objectionable. One of these was...‘There’s Whiskey in the Jar;’ now no longer heard; unless in the homes of ‘Missouri Pikers.’ I can hear its chorus yet ringing out on the night air in senseless verbiage – with a buffalo or wolf accompani[m]ent on the distant plains:

             O! Ring a jing a jar
             Whack, thwack, my laddie oh!
             There’s whiskey in the jar.

But we had sentimental ditties too. ‘Dutch Joe’ would sing one beginning—

             My old mother and I did part,
             When I was very young,
             Her memory still clings round my heart—
             How close to me she clung!

That is all I can recollect, but I have seen rude men affected at the recital."

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,Iains
Date: 21 Nov 23 - 01:55 PM

To me the cork and kerry mountains makes a lot of sense. The highest mountain in cork is very close to the Kerry border and the area is pretty much inaccessible, apart from foot and sure footed horse/pony. From Glengarrif to Kenmare over the Priests leap is fairly wild country and the alternative road to Kilgarven was built during the famine as a job creation scheme well after the song was created. Further east the countryside is equally rugged towards Gougane barra. The area provided thousands of acres to hide out. Even today sheep farming in the area provides a challenge accessing certain of the commonages.(I speak from personal experience.There are a lot of bogs and cliff faces and even a quad bike is of limited use)

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Thompson
Date: 22 Nov 23 - 05:54 PM

PW Joyce has a tune called Whiskey in the Jar (provenance "From a private in the 41st Regiment, Ballinamore, Co Leitrim") in his Old Irish Folk Music and Songs (Longman's, Green and Co, 39 Paternoster Row, London, New York, Bombay and Calcutta; Dublin, Hodges, Figgis & Co Ltd, 1909), but it's only music, no song, no mountains, no bold deceivers, no rapier and no money. It is, or was, on the Internet Archive.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Lighter
Date: 22 Nov 23 - 06:35 PM

Joyce acknowledges that the tune was actually collected by James E. Pigot, most likely in the 1840s or early '50s.

It is recognizably related to the current tune. the second strain, however, is very much like Lloyd's "Derby Ram."

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Thompson
Date: 23 Nov 23 - 04:01 AM

There's an interesting Wikipedia piece about it, saying " A number of its lines and the general plot resemble those of a contemporary broadside ballad Patrick Fleming (also called "Patrick Flemmen he was a Valiant Soldier") about Irish highwayman Patrick Fleming, who was executed in 1650."

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Lighter
Date: 23 Nov 23 - 01:14 PM

"Sporting Hero, or, Whiskey in the Bar [sic]" ca1852:

http://ballads.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/static/images/sheets/05000/01871.gif

"Patrick Flemming," from Holloway and Black. (The oldest available text, apparently from the 18th century):

   
Patrick Flemming was a Vallient Soldier,
He carried his Blunderbuss upon his shoulder
He cockt his Pistol and drew his Rapier,
Stand and deliver for I am the taker fal, lal,

If you're Patrick Flemming as I suppose you be,
We are three Pedlars a ganging so free sir,
We are three Pedlars a ganging to Dublin,
Nothing at all in our Pockets but our loading.

Says Patrick Flemming prithe don't trifle,
For I am resolved Your packs for to rifle,
Here is a bank on which they must rest on,
To search them all I have a Commission.

Loath they were to do as he commanded,
But knowing Patrick charg'd double-handed,
Searching their packs most carefully round,
There did he find four Hundred pound.

Oh! I have two brothers they're both in the army
The one is at Cork and the other at Kilkenny,
If they were here both blyth and bonny,
I'd rather see them than any one dear honey.

As I was going over Ruberry mountain,
Gold and silver there was counting
He thought it little I thought it better,
I took the Gold from Colonel Pepper.

My Whore she proved false and that is the reason
Or else Patrick Flemming had never been taken,
When I was asleep and knew nothing of the matter
Then she loaded my arms with Water:

Oh Patrick Flemming how often have I told you
With Swords with Pistols we would surround You,
For kissing of other mens wives brisk and merry,
as You was going to Londonderry.

Now my dear brothers i must leave You,
For of my Life they will bereave me
But when he set foot upon the Ladder
He briskly called for his hat and Feather.

Now You pretty Wives of fair London City
E'er it is long I sure shall be with Ye,
So bold and so Gallant i'lle gane to ye
That halters not made that [are] can undo me.      [e'er?

[All spellings as printed. The only "Rubery / Ruberry" I'm aware of is now a suburb of Birmingham.]