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The best sea songs on disk

toadfrog 13 May 01 - 03:08 PM
SeanM 13 May 01 - 05:49 PM
toadfrog 13 May 01 - 06:28 PM
Charley Noble 13 May 01 - 07:34 PM
SeanM 13 May 01 - 08:21 PM
Chanteyranger 14 May 01 - 03:59 AM
SeanM 14 May 01 - 04:15 AM
Chanteyranger 14 May 01 - 04:42 AM
dick greenhaus 14 May 01 - 10:16 AM
SeanM 14 May 01 - 05:40 PM
Kim C 14 May 01 - 05:43 PM
Dead Horse 14 May 01 - 06:26 PM
SeanM 14 May 01 - 09:49 PM
John P 15 May 01 - 09:29 AM
CET 15 May 01 - 05:56 PM
dick greenhaus 15 May 01 - 06:13 PM
SeanM 15 May 01 - 06:33 PM
toadfrog 15 May 01 - 08:51 PM
GUEST,bigJ 16 May 01 - 03:59 PM
GUEST,bigJ 16 May 01 - 04:02 PM
Scuttlebutt 16 May 01 - 08:09 PM
SeanM 17 May 01 - 01:06 AM
Desert Dancer 17 May 01 - 01:20 PM
Shields Folk 17 May 01 - 02:02 PM
Sandy Paton 17 May 01 - 03:06 PM
Clinton Hammond 17 May 01 - 03:08 PM
SeanM 17 May 01 - 10:40 PM
Chanteyranger 17 May 01 - 11:27 PM
SeanM 17 May 01 - 11:44 PM
Charley Noble 01 Feb 10 - 05:01 PM
Dave MacKenzie 01 Feb 10 - 06:32 PM
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Subject: The best sea songs on disk
From: toadfrog
Date: 13 May 01 - 03:08 PM

For those who are interested in these things, there is a series of sea chantey disks by what appears to be a recording company,Le Chasse-Maree/ArMen. I found two out of a 16- disk series at Down Home Records (Arhoolie) in El Cerrito. They had only a few. None is in the Mudcat store, a grievous if understandable oversight.

I have Chants de Marins Traditionnels. Would go so far as to say, this is the best thing since Lloyd & McColl did that record in the 1960's. No one who cares about sea music should be without it, and for someone who has a slight interest, this is the disk to have. In addition to classical French stuff like "Jean Francois de Nantes" and "Capitaine de Saint-Malo," it also has some top-notch recent songs in English. Only the best.

The series also includes a lot of Breton music, which I have not sampled, but which looks extremely interesting.


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Subject: RE: BS: The best sea songs on disk
From: SeanM
Date: 13 May 01 - 05:49 PM

Heck, if you're gonna start throwing 'best' around on this topic, then I think someone had better get parts II, III and more ready.

I love the 'Chants des Marins' first disc - the second I'm not too up on.

However - I've got a ton of others I'd stand up alongside that one as 'best'. I'd prefer to say they're all just 'very very good' and not get entangled into saber rattling over who we all prefer.

With that in mind...

I also highly recommend: "Shanties and Songs of the Sea featuring Johnny Collins" "Round Cape Horn: Traditional Songs of Sailors, Ships and the Sea" (with Ewan MacColl, A.L. Loyd, The Watersons, Cyril Tawney and many others) "Sea Songs & Shanties; Traditional English Sea Songs & Shanties from the Last Days of Sail"(Bob Roberts, Bob & Ron Copper, Harry Cox, many others) "Blow the Man Down" (Louis Killen, Ewen MacColl, Cyril Tawney, many, many others)

Plus a ton of others - I've got Wexford Express's "Away, you Santy!" and find it excellent, plus some very well done individual shanties on mixed albums.

And that's without even getting into the Mystic Seaport recordings, and several local groups that either don't have recordings or I haven't heard of them.

And THAT is without starting into things like the Shanty Sing at the pier that Chanteyranger runs...

M


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Subject: Lyr Add: LE CAPITAINE DE SAINT-MALO
From: toadfrog
Date: 13 May 01 - 06:28 PM

Sean:

Now you mention it, it is the first and not the second volume I was talking about. So we are talking about the same thing.
Purpose of the posting was primarily to call attention to the series rather than start an argument. Nonetheless, I believe I own each of the discs you mention (except Wexford Espress) and have listened to them many times. And I've been a Hyde Street Pier regular for maybe 12-15 years. And I'll stand by what I said. With the exception of "Blow Boys Blow," (Lloyd & McColl), there is nothing out there that is even in a class with Chants des Marins.

Also, the French tradition has the advantage, that the french do not appear compelled to bowdlerize their songs, so that they really do sound like songs real, live sailors just might sing. For example:

LE CAPITAINE DE SAINT-MALO


Traditional

Le Capitaine de Saint Malo
Ali alo
Qui fait la pèche au cachelot
ali ali ali alo
Ali alo.

Il donne la goutte à ses matelots
A grands coups de barres de guindeau!

Il mange la viand nous laisse les os
Il boit du vin et nous de l'eau!

Et son second qui est un salaud
Il fume les cigarres et nous laisse les mégots!

Il a trois filles qui font la peau
A Nantes au Havre et á Frisco.

Dans leur con grand comme un seillau
Le foutre coule á plein tonneau!

De foutre rouge des Angelo
Du foutre vert des Portugo!

Du foutre froid du foutre chaud
Des Norvegiens, des Italo!

Celui-la qu'elles en jouissent plutot
C'est celui du Français faraud!

Le foutre blanc le foutre chaud
Des baleiniers de Saint-Malo!

Pique leur ton vit fier matelot
Comme ton harpon au cachelot!

Published by Comendant Hayet Chansons de la voile sans voilein 1935; Led, on the disk above cited, by Christian Desnos.
Now, that was never cleaned up to satisfy the "village elders," as Stan Hugil used to say. I further maintain that the Killen number on this disk is the best chantey he ever did, and one of the most beautiful chanteys in any language.


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Subject: RE: BS: The best sea songs on disk
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 May 01 - 07:34 PM

The two "Boarding Party" recordings on Folk Legacy are always worth a listen, as are all those "Forebitter" CD's.


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Subject: RE: BS: The best sea songs on disk
From: SeanM
Date: 13 May 01 - 08:21 PM

It's the opinion factor...

I omitted some of my favorite individual 'singers' in this case. I'm a HUGE Oscar Brand fan, and he does numbers that would blister just about anyone's paint. I also love Tom Lewis, but he does pretty much only original numbers... same with Stan Rogers.

That's why rather than calling any one set the 'best', I think I'd call them 'really damn good'. It doesn't take away from the percieved quality of the sets, but it also leaves room without denigrating the other discs...

M


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Subject: RE: BS: The best sea songs on disk
From: Chanteyranger
Date: 14 May 01 - 03:59 AM

I'd put Holdstock and MacLeod's "Deepwater Shanties" on my "A" list of maritime recordings as well as other albums mentioned above. It's all straightaway chanteys, acapella, beautiful selection, moderate tempos - Dick Holdstock, Allan MacLeod, and a chorus of five singers. ONE of the great chantey recordings, in my book. My all-time favorite maritime recording is MacColl and Lloyd's "Whaling Ballads," but I would concur with SeanM about naming it or any other the best. I think it is possible, though, to have some criteria for picking out the wheat from the chaff, and to name an "A" list of great chantey recordings - ones that are highly regarded, influential, or lesser known ones by fine singers who have produced real masterpieces, as in the case, I think, with Dick and Allan. Thank you, Toadfrog, for alerting us to the French CD! I feel a sudden urge to make a trip to Down Home Music on Monday.

-chanteyranger


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Subject: RE: BS: The best sea songs on disk
From: SeanM
Date: 14 May 01 - 04:15 AM

If you're lucky, you can actually find most of the 'Chants des Marins' series from Tower Records. For being corporate, they DO have a pretty good traditional section (at least, the ones in LA that I've been to do). I've seen all the Chants series and a good chunk of my collection that I own came from there.

I rather like the "A" list idea, Chanteyranger. We can dicker on what makes that one, but that's a pleasant activity over beer rather than the knives that a 'best' conversation sometimes brings out.

While we're here... Any dates up for the next Festival of the Sea yet? I might be able to make it up...

M


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Subject: RE: BS: The best sea songs on disk
From: Chanteyranger
Date: 14 May 01 - 04:42 AM

SeanM, the Festival Of The Sea has been CANCELLED, much to my dismay. It's complicated, but PM me if you'd like the gory details. There will be another event, a 150th anniversary of the publication of Moby Dick and 20th anniversary of the chantey sing, which will be on November 3 and will include chantey performers. Hope you can make it up for that. I'll post a thread with details as soon as the event gets organized.


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Subject: RE: BS: The best sea songs on disk
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 14 May 01 - 10:16 AM

Are these CDs or LPs? "Disk" is ambiguous.

Re "best". Somehow, the concept of music being a competition has always repelled me. Shantys, though... I get this picture of the Shantyman finishing one, and the crew holding up those white cards with numbers a la the Olympics: 8, 9.5, 7...


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Subject: RE: BS: The best sea songs on disk
From: SeanM
Date: 14 May 01 - 05:40 PM

LOL... thank you for a great visual, Dick...

Actually, as I understand it, that's pretty much what the Hugill shanty competition in France is like. As I had it explained to me, they have a complete crew with shantyman who haul away on various equipment (windlass, pumps, halyards what have you) and sing, and are judged at the end of it. Always gave me the image of the announcer... "Yes, the scores are up... and OH! The crowd is not pleased... the German judge obviously marked them down three tenths of a point for not leering at the young lady in shorts in the crowd..."

M


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Subject: RE: BS: The best sea songs on disk
From: Kim C
Date: 14 May 01 - 05:43 PM

The favorite in my own collection is Blow the Man Down.


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Subject: RE: BS: The best sea songs on disk
From: Dead Horse
Date: 14 May 01 - 06:26 PM

What, where and when is Hugill Shanty Competition? I'd love to pop over and "sea" for myself.


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Subject: RE: BS: The best sea songs on disk
From: SeanM
Date: 14 May 01 - 09:49 PM

The ones I referred to are in France - I can't remember where I saw the page, but I DO remember seeing one.

A quick buzz on google brought up what sounds to be a similar event in Poland... click here for details on that one. It's not the 'Hugill Competition' that I remember, but they do give a "Stan Hugill Award".

Now where did that other page go...?

M


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Subject: RE: The best sea songs on disk
From: John P
Date: 15 May 01 - 09:29 AM

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned William Pint and Felicia Dale. They have several albums of mostly sea songs, ranging in style from Terribly Traditional to Way Out There. Really nice stuff. Here's their link.

Side Issue: Dick, I agree about music competitions. I always feel like getting all the contestants together and starting a jam session or a sing along . . .

John


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Subject: RE: The best sea songs on disk
From: CET
Date: 15 May 01 - 05:56 PM

I am not familiar with many of the albums mentioned in this thread, but I would really like to get hold of some of them, esp. the Chants des Marins series, Holdstock and MacLeod's "Deepwater Shanties, "Shanties and Songs of the Sea featuring Johnny Collins" "Round Cape Horn: Traditional Songs of Sailors, Ships and the Sea", "Sea Songs & Shanties; Traditional English Sea Songs & Shanties from the Last Days of Sail", "Blow the Man Down". Can they be ordered from somewhere via the Web?

Edmund


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Subject: RE: The best sea songs on disk
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 15 May 01 - 06:13 PM

I haven't found a source for all the Chants de Marins disks--I don't even know if they're CDs or not--but all the others that are in print (plus a whole lot more) are available at CAMSCO.

E-mail me (dick@camsco.com) or phone (800/548-FOLK)


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Subject: RE: The best sea songs on disk
From: SeanM
Date: 15 May 01 - 06:33 PM

As noted above, CAMSCO is a great source and also helps support the DT (plug, plug, plug).

I've also had luck with the 'Tower Records' chain. The California stores I've been to had fairly extensive Irish folk sections, and also a smallish (but still present) 'Sea Shanty' section (Right below the Cape Breton Songs in almost every store.)

M


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Subject: RE: The best sea songs on disk
From: toadfrog
Date: 15 May 01 - 08:51 PM

Regardless of whether it is "right" to talk about which is the best disk (not ambiguous, because it means CD's and vinyl disks) none of the righteous folk music houses is willing to stock things in a foreign language, from an unfamiliar source. So most of us will miss out on some very good stuff. And that is the point.


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Subject: RE: The best sea songs on disk
From: GUEST,bigJ
Date: 16 May 01 - 03:59 PM

As a result of seeing this thread I thought I'd pass on some of the serial numbers for CASSETTES that Le Chasse Maree have produced (these are from my own collection):

Anthologie Des Chants de Mer ..... SCM014
Cabestan (group) Chants de Marins Traditionnels .. SCM019
Chants Des Marins Nabtes ........ SCM018
Anthologie Des Chants de Mer .....SCM017
A Brest La Jolie ................. SCM020 Chants des Marins D'Europe ....... SCM022

Not complete by any means.


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Subject: RE: The best sea songs on disk
From: GUEST,bigJ
Date: 16 May 01 - 04:02 PM

For 'Nabtes' read Nantes! fool that I am.


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Subject: RE: The best sea songs on disk
From: Scuttlebutt
Date: 16 May 01 - 08:09 PM

Dear All

Have you visited www.chanteycabin.co.uk it has the worlds largest collection of Maritme Sea songs including most of those listed here and many many others.

All can be ordered by email/mail order etc

For those who want to know about Festival dates go to the Bitter End web site where most International Festivals are listed.

The next International Festival of the Sea is in Portsmouth England at the end of august - more info available if required

May you always run before the wind

Jan


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Subject: RE: The best sea songs on disk
From: SeanM
Date: 17 May 01 - 01:06 AM

Link to site from Jan's post.

Apprentice Link Fairy,

SeanM


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Subject: RE: The best sea songs on disk
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 17 May 01 - 01:20 PM

Fans of the genre might like to know that John Roberts & Tony Barrand's "Across the Western Ocean" is now available on CD from Golden Hind (even though they haven't got the web site updated to show it yet, and are as unlikely to jump in at this self-promotion opportunity!).


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Subject: RE: The best sea songs on disk
From: Shields Folk
Date: 17 May 01 - 02:02 PM

Jan L, running before the wind isn't always the safest thing to do. It depends what boat your sailing and how big the seas are.


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Subject: RE: The best sea songs on disk
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 17 May 01 - 03:06 PM

I suppose it's a given that I'm fond of Dan Milner's Irish Ballads and Songs of the Sea," and The Johnson Girls (especially for those who don't think women can sing sea songs). And, since I recorded both of the Boarding Party albums (only one on CD so far, the other available only as a cassette for awhile yet), I'd urge folks to listen to them as well. Damn good stuff, and the Boarding Party notes are an education in themselves. These are all available from Folk-Legacy, of course, 'cause that's where I work.

Sandy


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Subject: RE: The best sea songs on disk
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 17 May 01 - 03:08 PM

The best sea songs on disk???

Shouldn't TOM LEWIS be mentioned here somewhere?????

;-)


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Subject: RE: The best sea songs on disk
From: SeanM
Date: 17 May 01 - 10:40 PM

I think I mentioned him briefly at one point...

I guess Tom Lewis falls between the definitions. He does entirely original material, which would put him out of the 'traditional shanteyman' category (not that there are any left at this point). He DOES fit 'Sea Songs', but most of the discussion has revolved around those sea songs that are part of the general 'tradition'.

He's damn good though.

M


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Subject: RE: The best sea songs on disk
From: Chanteyranger
Date: 17 May 01 - 11:27 PM

Though most of Tom Lewis's recorded material is of modern composed songs, it must be noted that he did win 1st prize last year in a chantey competition (can't remember where it was held - could be the Hugill award). SeanM, I just got a CD you recommended, Traditional English Sea Songs & Shanties From The Last Days Of Sail, and it's every good thing you say it is. Would not have known of it otherwise. I love this site!

-chanteyranger


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Subject: RE: The best sea songs on disk
From: SeanM
Date: 17 May 01 - 11:44 PM

You'll probably also really like 'Blow the Man Down' as well. Many of the same artists, also all done in the traditional style. I believe Dick said he had it at Camsco.

Hadn't heard Lewis had won the Hugill award - more power to him! It's a ticky-tacky point, but still a point though - he's a modern 'shantyman', and most of the discussion seemed to revolve around the regular traditional stuff. Then again, the original series discussed also has a fair amount of original material - I have the two English language discs, and the first has a few songs from Rudy Sunde... I think I'm confused now and need to lie down...

M


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Subject: RE: The best sea songs on disk
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 05:01 PM

refresh


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Subject: RE: The best sea songs on disk
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 06:32 PM

There's some good French maritime music here

Coop Breizh Chansons de marins


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