 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Still alive in Argentina
|
|
|
Subject: Still alive in Argentina From: Escamillo Date: 08 Feb 02 - 04:24 AM Dear friends, this is just to say that we are still OK, fighting everyday for our rights, in the middle of the worst crisis that any country of America has ever suffered. There's no time for arts or culture. People is forming 100-meter lines at the Spanish and Italian Consulates, selling their houses and furniture, in their way out of Argentina. Large corporations are threatening to leave too. All banks, national and foreign, are condemned by the luck of trust from the people, and see their ends very soon. It is rumored that CitiBank is the only one who will free our funds and arrange its departure from Argentina. It is rumored too that a civilian/military "coup de force" is on its way for the next few weeks. We are safe and keep working and fighting. Opera Houses are on vacation but still did not announce any closing, I hope I'll find some place to sing in March or April. If not, I could record my barkings on CDs and send them to you. :) Un abrazo - Andrés |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: katlaughing Date: 08 Feb 02 - 05:01 AM Good to hear from you, mi amigo! Sorry to hear things are not better, yet, BUT really glad to hear you and your family are doing okay, considering. It is hard to imagine what it must be like to have such chaos and disharmony. I would love to buy a CD from you!! I've only heard you a tiny bit, but what Rog and I heard that one time was fantastic!! You, your family, and Argentina are in my thoughts and prayers. Un muy/mucho(?)abrazo, kat |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 08 Feb 02 - 05:21 AM Good luck to you - and I hope you don't get forced into exile ("selling their houses and furniture, in their way out of Argentina"). Argentina's a great country.
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Morticia Date: 08 Feb 02 - 07:54 AM Glad to hear you're okay, I'll be thinking of you. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Amos Date: 08 Feb 02 - 09:57 AM Andres, compadre: This sounds awful!! Please take care of yourself and your loved ones; I am keeping my best thoughts on you and yours. Un abrazo a usted, tambien, Amos |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: harpgirl Date: 08 Feb 02 - 11:40 AM ...so sorry for the strife and danger in Argentina. I hope you and your loved ones stay safe! hg |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: catspaw49 Date: 08 Feb 02 - 12:06 PM Always thinking of you Andres and I read the news with you in mind. May things go better sonn. Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: JenEllen Date: 08 Feb 02 - 12:09 PM Thinking of you still. Take care, my friend. ~J |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Feb 02 - 12:41 PM I am sorry, Escamillo, that there has not been more equality and shared purpose in the countries of this world up to now. Any one of us could one day be in your position, no matter where we live. I hope and pray that things will improve soon for you and the people of Argentina. Best Wishes, Compadre... - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Irish sergeant Date: 08 Feb 02 - 03:43 PM Andres; Hopefully things will work out for you and Agerntina. My first wife is from there and I enjoyed the little time that I was there. Again, I hope this crisis of your fair country will resolve itself quickly. Kindest regards, Neil |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: alanabit Date: 08 Feb 02 - 04:14 PM Argentina is on the other side of the world to me and it has been easy just to shut my mind and pretend it's not happening. Your post brought home to me that it is not as far away as I sometimes think. Indeed, a good friend of mine married and is living there. I hope she is OK. Sadly, from what I can make out, democratic, civilian government rarely survives long in a country when inflation has reached a certain level. I hope fervently that I prove to be thoroughly wrong this time. Good luck - I'll be thinking of you. Alan. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Giac Date: 08 Feb 02 - 04:44 PM Hola, Andrés, It is a relief to hear from you. Glad you and your family are still okay. I am saddened for Argentina and the situation there. Stay in touch and know that you have many friends praying for you, thinking of you and holding you near. And, if you do offer CDs for sale, I'd love to purchase one. Mary |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Escamillo Date: 13 Feb 02 - 03:23 AM I deeply appreciate your concern, friends. For those who don't know this country, it could be interesting to review some curious facts about our economy, appart from areas more widely known, as musical and cultural subjects, and intellectual personalities. 1) Argentina's national debt is now 140 billion, about one half of the national yearly gross product. 2) Deposits of Argentinean citizens abroad, mainly in Miami, NYC and Washington, amount to 140 billion. 3)Deposits of dollars captured in local banks and local branches of international banks are approx. 60 billion which they promise to give back in local currency devaluated 100% and adjusted by the official(?) inflation index, in a long program from 2002 to the end of 2005. 4) Dollars are on sale (at twice their original value) for anyone who was smart enough to withdraw pesos from the banks before December 4 and rich enough to not need them. 5) Transference of dollars to USA and Europe by large international corporations amount to another 60 billion approx., which are the internal debt of those corporations in Argentina, and which will come back as soon as they consider that the value of the dollar is convenient enough. (Now they could pay their debt with only 30 billion and save 30 billion, but they could be expecting more) As you can see, poor nations may be not so poor, and important politicians and corporations could be the worst of the thieves. Back to music! Next saturday I'll have an admission exam at a small but excellent opera group called Open Opera. Un abrazo - Andrés (TV shows only the nasty part of this tragedy - we keep working and fighting) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Bert Date: 13 Feb 02 - 04:02 AM Hi Andrés, I've been thinking of you. I wondered what the hell had happened to you. Glad you're OK. Hugs to you too. Bert. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha Date: 13 Feb 02 - 07:00 AM Andres, It`s very sad to see a rich country like yours being squeezed like an Orange. You gave the answer to all of your problems in line 2 of your summary, trusting your economy to the US proved fatal. At least you will have some consolation when Argentina win the World Cup. Ard Mhacha |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: catspaw49 Date: 13 Feb 02 - 08:14 AM I am always glad to continue hearing from you my friend. Best of luck on your admission exam......they'll be crazy not to take you! Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Alice Date: 13 Feb 02 - 09:28 AM Andrés, be careful, take care of yourself. I've been thinking about the situation in your country and wondering whether you and your family are OK. Best of luck in your audition - or should I say, Break a leg! Alice |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Escamillo Date: 28 Feb 02 - 05:13 AM There is a person in USA or Europe to whom we owe an apology. He/she is who applies for a loan at a bank and obtains the reply "your project is not viable", because at the same time those banks may be participating in a pool for a big loan to Argentina or any other country under the advice of the International Monetary Fund, to be once again stolen by large international corporations, large financial groups and dirty local politicians. Argentina is not only broken by them, it is on the way to a civil war. Please tell anybody who may be interested in this, that our savings have been stolen, that any future loans are absolutely useless and that the only way for economic deals between sovereign countries, is the TRUTH, the same truth that bankers expect from the tax payer or from that poor soul who goes to the bank to apply for a loan. Hope to have better news next week, we are OK, working and fighting. Un abrazo - Andrés (always grateful for your concern) (Ha! Harry Cipriani Restaurant has closed ! Now there will be a revolution!):)) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: GUEST,Indy Lass Date: 28 Feb 02 - 10:56 AM We have friends in Cordoba that we so rarely hear from. Please keep Mudcat posted on what's going on in Argentina. I would like to follow this closely. Hang onto your hope, and best wishes to you and yours. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Feb 02 - 12:11 PM The IMF is engaged in plundering the world for the sake of a small consortium of rich and powerful players. Remember Tammany Hall? This is the same thing, only on an international basis. God help Argentina, and the other small nations under the Big Heel of corporate greed. If there is a civil war in Argentina, those gentlemen will make more money supplying the guns to the fighters, and they will send their carpetbaggers in afterward to steal what is left. Until people in all parts of this world get an equal share, and an equal starting chance in life...there will be war, corruption, injustice, and more war...and the rich will live fat off the proceeds. Don't be misled into killing your brothers in arms. It won't help. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: GUEST Date: 28 Feb 02 - 02:04 PM Andres, Remember what Kissinger said" The US has no friends, just interests". Ard Mhacha. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Escamillo Date: 28 Feb 02 - 11:37 PM That's correct, Ard, probably Mr. Kissinger is who does not have friends. It is confirmed that our representatives and senators neither have friends. What is extremely painful is that ordinary people always pay, in the US, in Europe, in Latin countries, everywhere, because of the absolute freedom that the large corporations have been given. Could you have ever imagined that one day your bank would tell you "sorry, Sir, your savings are not available, you will receive only half of them, in programmed installements starting at the end of the next year. Reasons ? Well, the money is just not available, and your government and the IMF have authorized us to do this because otherwise we would have to close, you see? And that would be sooo bad for you" I would understand an economic war, a conflict of terrorism and political expansionism or even an invasion, but this is plain robbery within the rules and the principles of international and local capitalism. Or a new, unexpected form of capitalism ? And all national and foreign banks are involved, including CitiBank, Bank of Boston, Bank of America, Hispano Santander, Bilbao Vizcaya, Nationale de Paris, Nazionale dil Lavoro, as well as Argentina National Bank, Province banks and private local groups. However, we don't blame the US or Europe as nations, and not even our nation, this is only the unbeleivable weakness of the internationalized globalized system which allows and supports this class of immorality. We only hope that the Argentina disaster helps to awake minds all over the world and make us reconsider what kind of monster are we feeding. Sorry, I'm talking too much about this, let's go back to music which is something we understand and enjoy.:) Un abrazo as always - Andrés |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Irish sergeant Date: 01 Mar 02 - 05:12 PM Andres; My best wishes and please keep us posted. As I mentioned my first wife is from Argentina and is living in Buenos Aires. I thouroughly enjoyed Argentina when I was there and i pray that this situation will get corrected without bloodshed. Un Abrazo, Neil |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Escamillo Date: 07 Mar 02 - 04:56 AM This site offers an acceptably accurate information on the Robbery of the Century: http://www.guardian.co.uk/argentina/story/0,11439,634402,00.html Some details they don't mention in this article: 1) No one single bank, national nor foreign, has appealed to Justice to obtain authorization to give our dollars and pesos back. For example, the Bank of Boston appealed to the Supreme Court to be RELEASED from the obligation to give back 20,000 dollars to one of its clients who had obtained a first instance resolution from Justice, for a case of urgent medical care, as an exception. 2) They not only keep our funds frozen. Those who saved pesos are offered bonds for 2003. Those who saved DOLLARS will see 45% converted to pesos starting in 2005, or a bond in dollars for 2012. 3) By decree, all cash payments to any person or commercial firm is prohibited. ANY earnings you may have, for any reason, must go to the bank, which will NOT allow you to withdraw more than $ 150 per week. The rest can be used only through checks or debit cards, with extremely high costs, delays and stupid excuses. At least, this new money can be used, but the economy has been paralyzed. 4) Nobody knows why banks can't go to Chapter 11 as any commercial enterprise. Nobody knows where did our money disappear, although we all know that the deposits of Argentinian and foreign firms in Europe and US, equals the amount of the national debt added to the 60 billion withdrawn from the banks in 2001. 5) Dollars are on sale at exchange offices (where do they come from?). Banks are offering new loans (is that the money they refuse to give back to us?). Of course, nobody takes them. Besides, nobody plans to ever put a single cent in any bank, and thus the financial system is destroyed. 6) The International Monetary Fund (who is not the US government) approves these procedures against our Constitution and against any known rule of ethics. I know that there are many tragedies in the world, much worse than this. But this one deserves to be widely known all over the world, for everybody who may be want to see the real face of the new, globalized capitalism, which allows me to communicate through this wonderful technology and at the same time steals the future of my children. Un abrazo - Andrés (not viable, not sustainable !)
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Mar 02 - 02:16 PM Over the past 15 years I have watched as banks in Canada: 1. Make bigger and bigger annual profits. 2. Levy more and more service charges on their customers. 3. Penalize people with smaller accounts in a great variety of ways, and give perks to people with bigger accounts. 4. Merge into larger and fewer banks, thus increasing their profits and worsening their service to the public. 5. Lay off more and more staff and replace them with automated machines that you can't talk to or reason with or get any useful response from. 6. Make loans to huge businesses and turn away the individual and the small businessman. 7. Create vast amounts of spurious and completely imaginary dollars (far more than any national government is presently creating) through those loans...and get rich essentially off money which does not really exist...and never will...except on a computer screen. This has happened because greedy and utterly irresponsible governments have allowed it to happen, and it's totally out of control. Expect more societies to pay for it very, very soon. It looks like it's time to go back to REAL money to me...gold and silver coins, horses, whatever...as long as it's real. We have all been robbed blind. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha. Date: 07 Mar 02 - 02:38 PM And Bush has just kicked his old mate Blair right up the goolies. The US has banned the import of foreign steel and that means big trouble for European steel manufacturing. So much for friends, when it comes to money and votes old Henry the warmongers words ring true.Ard Mhacha. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Mar 02 - 03:24 PM Sort of like a man kicking his trained and obedient attack dog, isn't it? You see that a lot too...and the man gets away with it. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Irish sergeant Date: 07 Mar 02 - 03:54 PM The Banks do the same thing here. If it's on your list Little Hawk, They do it here too. My wife works for a bank and the question of the day is "How come you're not getting as much done in your branch?" The answer is, of course, "You keep cutting our staff>" And by the way, it's already happening. If you follow the news about the "Budget surplus" It's disappearing rapidly if it isn't already gone. Of course as you pointed out so eloquently This is going on through out the world. and the budget surplus was only on paper. I fear we will all feel the effects if the banks aren't stopped. Kindest regards, Neil |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Escamillo Date: 07 Mar 02 - 11:34 PM Considering what you are saying, I guess that banks are no longer banks. At least they are not the financial institutions we knew all our lives, but they have become only the front-end of a pyramid of giant obscure transactions which are building the real Power of this century. An obscure power with no head and no face, no nationality and no purpose except their own growing. Today they steal our savings, condemn truthful people to death and misery, and paralyse our economies, some day they could become blind and crazy enough to push the red button. Some day their computers will balance casualties against earnings and will recommend a war. Something should be done to stop them. Un abrazo - Andrés (today Buenos Aires' banks have been decorated by people with pure shit. I swear I didn't contribute in any way) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Mar 02 - 02:06 PM Yes, Andres. Civilization is built on ideas...great philosophical ideas about the higher purposes of life. A civilization which subordinates all of those concepts to the endless search for higher profits is one that digs its own grave. It is high time to return money to its original status...a mere tool to facilitate transactions, rather than an end in itself... Or else eliminate it entirely, since humanity and nature are both going down to destruction because they have been forced to serve money...when it is money that should be serving them. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Escamillo Date: 26 Mar 02 - 03:45 AM It is a shame that adult people as our President(?) and Ministers(?) keep insistently knocking at doors that have been slammed in their noses many times, as well as traditional banks slam their doors on the noses of truthful people. SHAMEFUL, but Hallelujah!! We, the people, know that work is the only way to make money, and the International Monetary Fund has just discovered the same secret ! After 30 years of association with our local corrupt bureaucrats and granting loans of loans to pay commissions on the interests of more loans, the IMF refuses to send more money to "corrupt governments". If they did this so many years ago, we would not be in this chaos. At least, our corrupts, of which we have hordes, would have found nothing to steal, and would have migrated to some other unfortunate country, or worse, they would have been put to work. Today the US dollar bill (no more deposits) reached the barrier of the 4.00 pesos, a 40% increase in two days. (It was 1 peso = 1 dollar in December). Decisions are expected this week. I expect a UN intervention. Un abrazo - Andrés (anybody wants to buy Argentine-made concert guitars ? violins ? hire a singer ? :)) )
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Irish sergeant Date: 26 Mar 02 - 04:29 PM Andres; I do hope it all works for Argentina. Glad to hear your well and hey, if you didn't smear the banks, at least some one did. Sometimes you have to send a message. Kindest regards, Neil |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: GUEST Date: 27 Mar 02 - 04:51 AM news paper picture showed the dollar trading at 3.20 |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: GUEST Date: 30 Mar 02 - 01:43 AM I think I am missing something, have people died in Argentina, like in Israel? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Escamillo Date: 30 Mar 02 - 02:18 AM Yes, the dollar dropped to 3.20 after some frantic ups and downs and a dangerous injection of bills from the reserves at the Central Bank. Unfortunately, we have to count 32 dead since December 20, killed by the police in street protests. You may find many interesting news searching for "Argentina bank riots" or similar, in Google. But the reverse bank robbery (when banks steal your money) is just the top of the iceberg. The problem is the 24% unemployment rate in a depressive economy, paralyzed by the lack of funding and "chaotized" by lack of decisions in the government. What still annoys me is the fact that Argentina is not a poor desert, it is as rich as you can imagine, and people has the highest education level in Latin America. un abrazo - Andrés |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: GUEST Date: 31 Mar 02 - 02:11 AM This site will give you a reputable news article http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1870000/1870066.stm |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Amos Date: 31 Mar 02 - 09:07 AM Grim news, mi amigo. More tales of Argentinian lives in tumult because of this chaotic mismanagement can be found here. I wish this malfeasance received more of the exposure it deserves. The free press is more interested in sexual scandals and car-bombings, though. It takes too much effort to dig out the real stories in banking! May you find your way thorugh. And can you actually deliver concert-class guitars? This being a music site and all. How much? What kind of payment would be most helpful -- dollars hidden in a cake? Regards and affection, A
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Little Hawk Date: 31 Mar 02 - 02:11 PM A complete monetary collapse in a country affects far more of its citizens in a blatantly direct way than does a suicide bombing at a store or a disco. Some people's self-righteousness and sense of "victimhood" is truly breathtaking, I must say...almost as breathtaking as their utter disregard for their fellow human beings and their immediate neighbours who are far worse off than they are. Wait till your savings are wiped out, till your economy collapses, and see how it feels. As for dying...people are dying in many places...from hunger, disease, and poverty! And it mostly goes unreported, because it is not considered "newsworthy" by the f**kheads who own the mass media, the banks, the jet planes, and the nuclear missiles. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Escamillo Date: 31 Mar 02 - 03:08 PM Thanks for your concern, my friends. Yes, all Argentinean local production have dropped in price to the lowest level in decades, maintaining the quality. These are the only good news. 1.5 million tourists are now buying all sort of goods by the dozen, and this could be the first symptom of recovery. If the IMF does NOT approve a new, evil loan, perhaps we could stand on our ruines and start again, with a new government. And forget trips to Brazilian beaches or Miami malls, but who cares, when people need a job ? If this is accompanied by strict laws against thieves, we could possibly raise our heads, especially my head which is a little bulky as my friends say. Regarding guitars, the really good opportunity is to TRAVEL, and then buy guitars, violins, drums, shirts and shoes, and underwear and jewerly, and salami and art pieces. If not, the fastest way to pay for a purchase is to send a Western Union transfer, which arrives in minutes. A check would be OK but the clearing may take two weeks. Next week I'll ask for prices at the best musical instruments manufacturers. I am sure they have already found some way to export fast and safe, they will not miss this opportunity. For an approximate idea, a concert guitar must be between 150 and 300 dollars.(Better than Yamaha) Un abrazo - Andrés (not viable! not globalizable !) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Little Hawk Date: 31 Mar 02 - 04:35 PM "Salami"? Buy salami? Please explain... :-) - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Escamillo Date: 31 Mar 02 - 05:35 PM Well, an excellent salami of Italian type sells for 1.00 dollar per Kg. Anyone interested in imports ? :) Un abrazo, cheese, sausages, beef and wine all for 1.00 - Andrés |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Little Hawk Date: 31 Mar 02 - 05:54 PM Sounds like a great place to go shopping...with foreign currency. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: katlaughing Date: 03 Apr 02 - 12:41 PM Andres, mi amigo, Sorry I haven't been in this thread, earlier. It's been a bit busy here. I have been reading your messages and sending them on to Roger, who is following the situation very closely, both in Argentina and in Venezuela. He left part of his heart there with all of the wonderful folks he came to know. I heard a song on the radio, yesterday, and thought of you. It is a new one by Billy Bragg which castigates the IMF and WTO, in one verse. I've posted it HERE for you and the others to read. Any harps for sale? Like the llaneros in Venezuela play? Oy! How would I get it shipped?!:-) All my love to you and your family, kat |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Irish sergeant Date: 03 Apr 02 - 04:11 PM Andres; Not in a market for a guitart this week, (Damn it!) But I am glad to hear yoiu are doing o.k. and keeping a sense of humor. Don't let the bastards grind you under. The media prints suicide bombings and who's sleeping with who because that sells papers and at heart any newpaperowner is a salesman at heart. Don't believe me count up the pages and see how many are given over to advertising. Kindest regards, Neil |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Escamillo Date: 04 Apr 02 - 12:02 AM Thanks to Neil, to Kat (APIO VERDE TUYU), thanks to all for supporting us and sharing our concern (and our panic sometimes). That song is GREAT! But it would better be a tango, you know, when we are sad or furious or really depressive, we say "today I would write a tango". I'll ask for a harp too. Air freight could possibly be more expensive than the harp itself, but we will see. Once in 1993 when things were totally reversed, I bought a super-heavy wash machine in Miami (old good USA industry)and brought it to Buenos Aires by air, and it is humming today as the first day, and costed me the same as a local smaller machine, made in China. So, if there are good harp builders up there, think about it! But if you get only Indonesian harps, consider the Argentinean monster. Today ex-minister of Economy, Domingo Cavallo, the true power behind ex-president De la Rua, was arrested under the charges of aggravated illegal exportation of Argentinean weapons with destination Croatia and Ecuador. Double crime: to sell weapons and to smuggle them. You may see how painful is our shame: while millions of workers were falling into misery and desperation, these gentlemen were making money selling arms to conflicted countries, while negotiating loans with the IMF. Something big will have to happen here. Un abrazo - Andrés (rich again: my bank released my weekly $100.00 cash) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: GUEST Date: 04 Apr 02 - 11:51 PM If we all sent $5.00 you would be rich indeed.
Please post your address. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: GUEST Date: 05 Apr 02 - 05:54 PM Argentina's president, Eduardo Duhalde, has announced fresh measures to relieve poverty. About 45% of the country lives in poverty. Under the new plan, each unemployed household will from 15 May receive 150 pesos ($50.5) a month. The peso has already lost about 70% of its value. The country has amassed 141 billion in financed debt. Financed through taxes on exports and cuts in special pensions, is seen as a way of settling the social unrest that ousted Mr Duhalde's predecessor. The IMF is suspicious.
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Escamillo Date: 06 Apr 02 - 02:54 AM Thanks for your information, Guest. Regarding poverty, well, it depends on what is understood by poverty. I would only add that the IMF is not only suspicious. They are convinced (Hallelujah) that their loans, which come from the contributions of all members including Argentina, have always had every kind of destinations, especially the payment of interests and thick commissions to their local friends, instead of the declared purpose of helping the local economy and fighting poverty. I would say to IMF authorities : "You want to help a troubled country ? DON'T LEND MONEY. Just buy the product of their honest work. And never, for any reason, be the partners of the thieves." Sorry, we don't accept donations. If you send me 5 dollars, I'll send you 5 kg of sausages. Un abrazo - Andrés (from classical tenor to grocer ?) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Apr 02 - 12:38 PM Andres, you are an excellent man. Any country, if paid fairly for the honest work of its citizens, would do well in this world and soon be prosperous and happy. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: GUEST,An Inquiring Mind That Wants to Know Date: 13 Apr 02 - 02:04 AM As our "MudCat Reporter in Argentina"
How long, in your opinion, (days, weeks, months) before Argentina follows in the footsteps of Venzuela and the people rise up and overthrow the current government?
There are so many similarities: Currency devaluation in both
Which "SIDE" do YOU expect "fall on" IF there IS an insurrection? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: GUEST,Pepe Date: 13 Apr 02 - 03:03 PM Jose "Pepe" Siderman, who fled his native Argentina during the military regime's "dirty war" that targeted opponents and later won a landmark human rights case against the Argentina nation, died Wednesday in Los Angeles. He was 90. His case added to the voluminous documentation of the seven-year dirty war and its nefarious subtext of anti-Semitism. Many of Argentina's military men were admirers of Adolf Hitler and Germany's Nazi regime. Yet Argentina is a nation regarded by many of its citizens as the most European, and civilized, in Latin America.I lived Dante's stories of hell, the inferno. I could see animals flying. I saw everything that Dante had written about." Siderman recalled the shouted epithets--"dirty Jew!"--as armed goons pounded on his front door March 24, 1976, when a coup d'etat shattered the prosperous existence of the Siderman family. "I have no doubt that this disgrace happened to us because we were Jewish," Siderman said. Upon his release, he said, a note was left in his pocket. He was warned to leave or face death. The family fled Argentina, eventually landing in the United States, where a daughter already lived. Siderman became a naturalized U.S. citizen.
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: katlaughing Date: 13 Apr 02 - 03:26 PM We got this from our partner in Caracas, Venezuela, yesterday: We were kidnapped and held at gunpoint for three hours last night Shot one of our microwave operators. Like back in NAM!!!....Still alive ... Lot of unrest going on. Leaving to the island tonight to rest...no sleep for almost a week. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Little Hawk Date: 13 Apr 02 - 03:39 PM Desperate times indeed. Anybody got some background information on the situation in Venezuela and what led up to it? - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: katlaughing Date: 13 Apr 02 - 04:45 PM The short version? Corruption at the highest levels on down. If I can get Rog in here, he could tell you much more. When he started going down there to work, in 1992 or so the exchange rate was a reasonable level of maybe 80Bs to the dollar. Within a year or so it was in the thousands to each dollar. It was one of the most endearing, yet frustrating places to do business, with no one in any kind of rush to get anything done. Rog left part of his heart there. It is a completely different mindset. We found, and our partner who has lived down there forever and married in it:-) confirmed it, the ones who had money all had it in accounts in the States, all of their kids went to college up here, etc. i.e. they took it from their country, but didn't invest it back into their own country, just their own families. We lost $20,000 on a signed contract with one of the governors who was a prime example of this. Could charm the pants off ya while taking everythign you had! Another example, he was staying in a "posh" condo which someone broke into, through a skylight. They took the Italian chandelier which was worth thousands, his passport, plane ticket, and his laptop. when they went to the police station to report it, the cops were getting ready to go out on a drug raid. As Rog listened, the cops were arguing over who got to put the 5 bullets they had between them, into whose gun! I kid you not. For more of an up-to-date look, we get most of our online news at this source: Venezuela Online |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: GUEST Date: 14 Apr 02 - 01:07 AM An overflow from the unrest in Argentina. If the "crisis/corruption" in Argentina had not occured - the Venezuelian govt would probably still be there. It is good that another dictator is gone.
So, which side does our MC reporter report to? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Escamillo Date: 20 Apr 02 - 04:12 AM Sorry for having missed some messages in this thread. As you know, things evolved rapidly in Venezuela and Mr.Chavez is back. As I said in the Venezuela thread, it is clear that Venezuelan people has taken a main role in the abortion of the coup, which apparently was mounted upon a legitimate protest but rapidly controlled by the same old traditional politicians who had been repeatedly defeated at all recent elections which favored Chavez. Indeed I see a parallelism with Argentina, but our country goes 10 or 15 years behind Venezuela. We are in the stage of insurrection against the establishment of a mafia who led Argentina to bankrupcy with the complicity of international corporations. We still don't have a political mind clear and strong enough to change the present course to chaos. To answer Guest's question is hard for economists and political analists, so you can imagine how hard could be for me as a simple well-educated worker, even as an eye (and pocket) witness, but I can tell you that there is a whole new attitude of the people towards that corruption that governed our Latin countries for decades, and perverted our own personal ethics. People is realizing that Justice is not a matter of negotiation, that human rights is something beyond business, that honesty is not the same as ingenuity. I think this is even more important than realizing that you can't drive a Mercedes Benz across a crowd of hungry people. I think it is as important as having built a democracy (dirty and weak democracy) after the darkness of a military fascist dictatorship in 1976-1983. We expect general insurrections within days, and the fall of this government (who is just a continuator of traitor De La Rua and his friends, the banks and corporations) in a few weeks.
Events of the day:
Mr. Duhalde stupidly insists in an agreement with the IMF to obtain another loan in May, when the IMF does not show a minimal signal (hallelujah) to agree anything. Why the IMF should lend more money to governors who eat salmon and drink champagne while their people agonize ? And what would be that money used for ? Of course, to pay for interests of previous loans and commissions to the bankers involved. It is good that the IMF and the Treasury of the US which is its main advisor, have learned the lesson ! You may see riots and fire again in Argentina. I am in a dilemma: I would like to tell you that we will be safe in our house, but I am really willing to take a gallon of gasoline and go to the streets. I don't get exactly what Guest means by "to which side I report to", but these comments may have presented an approximate picture. And.. have I been entitled as MC reporter ?? wow :) Un abrazo - Andrés |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Giac Date: 20 Apr 02 - 06:49 PM Oh Andrés, I hope you don't have to "go to the mattresses." Please be careful and let us hear from you enough to know you are all right. Thinking of you and your family. Mary |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: hesperis Date: 20 Apr 02 - 08:15 PM Andrés I am very sad to hear of what is happening to you and your country. Are there any options aside from money? So the bank lets you have $100 per week... what about barter, is that any possibility? Are the people coming together about this, or is everything just chaotic? I hope things get better. But I know that something solid must be DONE about the problems before it will get better... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Apr 02 - 08:44 PM Good luck, and take care of yourself. You've got to save your voice to sing in the celebrations when things get sorted.
And remember the World Cup is coming up in a few weeks... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Amergin Date: 20 Apr 02 - 08:49 PM take care of yourself....hope things get better soon... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Little Hawk Date: 20 Apr 02 - 09:48 PM I am struck be the naivete of people who refer to a democratically elected politician (Chavez) as a dictator. Perhaps they are quite unaware that he was democratically elected by his people. Perhaps they are repeating something they heard someone else say. They used to make that same mistake regarding Daniel Ortega in Nicaragua, a country that followed completely legal procedures and went to the World Court to get legal help in the '80's when it was being attacked illegally by a foreign power (the USA, through the Contra guerillas, based on foreign soil, funded, trained and supplied by the USA). The World Court ruled against the USA for engaging in illegal and undeclared acts of war (or just call it what it is...terrorism). The USA refused to even comment on that ruling or give it any recognition whatsoever. They held the World Court in contempt, because it does not have an inventory of a few thousand atomic bombs. Eventually they bled Nicaragua so white that Ortega lost an election...a democratic one, and did what democratically elected politicians do when they lose...he stepped down. Peacefully. If you have a revolution in Argentina, Andres, expect corporate USA to be there in some capacity (open or hidden), helping the rich people and businessmen and bankers to maintain their privileged position by any means possible...no matter how many ordinary people die or lose all they own. I hope someone with courage and high ideals comes forward in your country, and can represent your people and do something at high levels to reform your system. If so, I'm sure he will soon be labelled "dictator" for it by people who don't live there. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Escamillo Date: 20 Apr 02 - 10:35 PM 100 dollars per week is what the banks allow to withdraw in cash, to each person or to each company (imagine the problems of those who need cash for small daily expenditures like postage, tolls, meals, bus and train rides,etc.etc. ). Aside from the cash, 5% of the people are entitled to issue checks, which will not be accepted in stores, or, if accepted, will produce delays of several days. Credit cards are widely accepted but even less people can afford them. Debit cards are mandatory, and 50% of people do use them. The other 50% survive in the informal economy in which barter is a fast growing system which alleviates the most terrible situations. But this next week, without banks, anything is possible. It is important to see that this disaster is not caused by a dramatic impoverishment of the whole country, but the main reason is the absolutely illegal drainage of the money which had to be secured in the Central Bank and all the banks !. We have been robbed, that's it. The PESO was convertible to the dollar, and the dollars are gone, so the PESO has lost its value. For example, a recent hidden camera showed blatantly how a drain operation was done: the client goes to the bank and asks for a way to convert his pesos to dollars and deposit them in Brazil. The manager then proposes 1) Take his Pesos and convert them to dollar bills, 2) open an account in Brazil for the client and deposit the dollars on that account (there was no control on international transfers), 3) On the guarantee of those dollars, grant the client a loan in Pesos which is deposited at the same bank. In case of a devaluation, the client would "sacrifice" a part of those dollars to cancel the loan in Pesos. As soon as the client said that he was willing to transfer 30,000 dollars, the manager hurried up him because "I'm here for much larger transactions, Sir". These operations were much more succesful than expected, because the dollar raised 230% because of the desperation of the thieves at the government, corporations and banks, and late stupids who formed 200 meter lines at the exchange houses to buy 200 dollars. The 20 largest companies in Argentina, including local and foreign, have "liquified" their billionaire local debts with only 30% of the capital. And now they want to leave, because business in Argentina are "no longer profitable". How would one keep calm ? Peter T., McGrath, anybody who may have visited Argentina could answer the question: is this a poor country ? Are its inhabitants unable to work for a living ? How comes that we deserve this chaos ? I wish we don't win the World Cup. If we do, everybody will forget this mess and celebrate. I'd rather wish we loose for an unfair, evil penalty. Then we will have a revolution here. Un abrazo - Andrés |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Alice Date: 20 Apr 02 - 10:39 PM Andrés, take care of yourself. I hope the situation resolves without violence. - Alice |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Escamillo Date: 20 Apr 02 - 11:06 PM Thanks LH for a brave position of honest concern. You may see that I am always careful to not blame the US or the UK for our troubles, not only because you are my friends but also because large capitals don't have a nationality, a face or an ideal. I clearly see that neither you blame any nationality, but agree that governments are becoming more and more dependent upon the convenience of large corporations who decide who lives and who dies, and as soon as Russia or China or Swaziland offers them a better field, they would happily abandon the US and any country and migrate to where the Sun warms better. Last news: now Saturday night, all electronic cashiers have been emptied. Tension is growing, and there is a full week ahead. Thanks again. Un abrazo - Andrés |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 21 Apr 02 - 12:05 AM The Canadian Banks such as Bank of Nova Scotia, operating in Argentina, have not lost any value on the Toronto stock market. I would guess they had transferred their money and that of the depositors out of the country. Canada has mostly big international operators in banking; there are few small ones. Here in Alberta, I think the Alberta Treasury Bank (still government I think but on the way to privatization) is the only one. The International Monetary Fund was a good idea, but as it stands, it reflects the interests of the larger industrial nations. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: katlaughing Date: 21 Apr 02 - 12:59 AM The unrest started in Venezuela a long time ago; it's all been leading to this, just as Andres says and as has happened in Argentina. When Roger first went down there to work, the exchange rate was 80 Bolivars to the dollar. Within 2-3 years it had gone up into the Andres, I am keeping Roger and our friend in VZ up to date with what is happening with you. They and I send our very best to you and your family and give thanks that there will be a way out of this without violence. Please check in when and if you can. You have so many friends here and we all care. luvyakat {{{{{HUGS}}}}} |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 21 Apr 02 - 02:57 PM Reminded these days of Voltaire's statement: "Man shall not be free until the last general is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Apr 02 - 04:45 PM No, Argentina is no more a poor country than Australia is. You've had parasites running it for too long. Well, so have a lot of countries, but your lot seem to have been particularly tenacious.
I just hope that this time you'll be able to get rid of the present crop without replacing them with clones. And that, if you do succeed in getting a decent bunch in charge, Big Brother up North won't muscle in.
And be careful. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: GUEST Date: 22 Apr 02 - 02:21 AM Excerpts from Monday, April 22, 2002 front page Wall Street Journal
BUENOS AIRES -- Argentina will close its banks and foreign-exchange markets indefinitely starting Monday as the government prepares to take politically treacherous measures to rescue the banking system by further encroaching on Argentines' savings. "We run the risk of the system exploding," said President Eduardo Duhalde, Argentina's fifth leader since December.
Argentina, a country of 37 million people, was hailed by Washington as a model of free-market reform during the 1990s. Multinationals poured in money, and Wall Street lent Argentina's government and companies billions of dollars.
The announcement of the bank and foreign-exchange shutdown differed from earlier banking closures in that the government didn't set a date for reopening. Before announcing the systemwide closure, the central bank as of Friday suspended most transactions at Bank of Nova Scotia's Argentine unit, Scotiabank Quilmes SA, after the parent company refused to inject more cash into it. Friday afternoon at the headquarters of Scotiabank Quilmes, Argentina's 12th-largest bank, dozens of desperate depositors -- stepping around leaflets dropped by a bank employees' union saying, "Canada, Fork Over the Money" -- formed long lines in hopes of retrieving funds.
The stepped-up withdrawals followed thousands of individual legal rulings against draconian government restrictions on bank-account withdrawals put into place in December. A trickle of initial judicial rulings in depositors' favor turned into a flood this month. A group of depositors and their lawyers, brandishing the judicial rulings, holed up in state-owned Banco de la Nacion Argentina until around midnight Friday after bank employees failed to return their money.
The government's failure to meet agreed-upon fiscal targets led the IMF to suspend all loans to Argentina in December. "The IMF has no faith in the Duhalde regime -- zero," said Walter Molano, head of research at BCP Securities in Greenwich, Conn. "What the IMF is doing is saying, 'We'll just wait you out.'
The Scotiabank Quilmes closure fueled rumors that other mediumsize banks would be shuttered and provided a bleak preview of what the future might hold for many depositors. The central bank gave the Canadian-owned bank 30 days to present a reorganization plan. Scotiabank blamed its problems on the impact of the currency devaluation and also cited the central bank's refusal to provide emergency funds.
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Escamillo Date: 22 Apr 02 - 04:53 AM "We run the risk of the system exploding," said President Eduardo Duhalde, Argentina's fifth leader since December. Wise words. Mr.Duhalde also wants to express to all his greetings for the New Year 2001. Un abrazo - Andrés |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: katlaughing Date: 22 Apr 02 - 09:15 PM A bit more from AP, along the same lines: BUENOS AIRES, Argentina –– A banking holiday shut down equity and foreign exchange markets again Monday as small protests flared around Argentina over a deep economic crisis. The country's Central Bank imposed the banking holiday last Friday as the government of President Eduardo Duhalde wrestled with ways to shore up the tottering banking system. All foreign exchange and banking transactions remain indefinitely halted as the government draws up an economic plan to stem the outflow of around $100 million a day from the banks. The program aims to end thousands of successful lawsuits contesting a partial banking freeze imposed on Dec. 1 by the government of former President Fernando De la Rua. Those restrictions still remain and limit cash withdrawals to around $500 a month, but judges have consistently upheld the right of savers, who have challenged the decision in the courts. But Duhalde on Monday repeated warnings that steps must be taken to avoid the collapse of the financial system, now weighed down by a four-year-old recession. "We all know the situation: there are many more people who want to withdraw money than there is money in the banks," Duhalde told reporters. Late Sunday, his government sent a legislative proposal to Congress aimed at reorganizing the government-run banks, a move seen as an attempt to rescue the country's tottering financial system. It calls for creating the Banco Federal Nacional. The bank would be a merger of Argentina's largest bank, Banco de La Nacion, and the investment bank, Banco de Inversion y Comercio Extranjero. Separately the government has sent Congress a proposal to oblige most Argentines who win lawsuits to withdraw money from the banks to accept long-term bonds instead of cash. Some $60 million remain trapped in deposits because of the banking freeze. But opponents in Congress said they were reluctant to hastily endorse any such plan, demanding to see the details. Sen. Rodolfo Terragno told the local news agency Diarios y Noticias it would be impossible to act within the 12 or 24 hours that Duhalde's administration would like. "This is extortion," he complained. Meanwhile, depositors wanting their money back returned to the streets of Buenos Aires on Monday. But the protests were small: one group demanding money back from the banks numbered only about 100 in the rainswept streets. Protests were reported elsewhere, including San Juan province in western Argentina. Around Buenos Aires, meanwhile, many who tried to make ordinary withdrawals from bank machines complained the banks weren't restocking the machines during the banking holiday. Last week, the Central Bank suspended the activities of Scotiabank Quilmes for 30 days, the country's 11th largest bank, because of its low level of operating capital and reserves. Private analysts say many of Argentina's banks face similar problems, in particular the smaller provincial banks, many of which have been privatized over the past decade. Argentina is suffering its worst downturn in memory. Argentina defaulted on its dlrs 141 billion debt in December and began a sharp devaluation of the currency in January. © 2002 The Associated Press |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Escamillo Date: 22 Apr 02 - 11:38 PM Oh, typos again. I wonder how journalists can miss the figures for so many powers of ten and pretend that people understand their reports. "Some $60 million remain trapped in deposits because of the banking freeze." should read "$60 billion". "..cash withdrawals to around $500 a month" could be true for a dollar at 2.30 one month ago, but today at 3.30 it is 363.00 dollars/month. Internal prices have fallen brutally, but later inflated, so 363/month is still insufficient even for a single person. As I was afraid of, today the small stores announced that they have suspended operations with credit and debit cards. We still can make our purchases at the supermarkets with our debit cards, provided that we do have funds in our banks, if the checks deposited have passed the clearing process before Wednesday 17th. Any check entered since April 18 is indefinitely frozen. Yes, you're right, this situation is absolutely impossible to withstand, and everybody is now expecting the resignation of Duhalde and the government in full. And the next government, if it is not military, will surely come from the most unexpected political groups, never from the traditional parties. A new Chávez is being gestated ? And what if I tell you that this time it may well be a woman ?? Could women be able to lead us out of the disaster ? Un abrazo - Andrés (now rushing to prepare a cup of tea for my wife)
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: GUEST Date: 22 Apr 02 - 11:51 PM And No-One will be permitted to trade or buy without |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: GUEST Date: 22 Apr 02 - 11:52 PM The Mark of The BEAST |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Apr 02 - 04:57 PM No one is permitted to trade or buy right now without the Mark of the Beast...that is, the US Dollar. It's an "S", with two lines drawn through it vertically... Of course, it could get even worse than that, couldn't it? Yes, indeed, it surely could. And I expect it will. The only question is: how soon? - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Apr 02 - 06:19 PM BTW, the comment about the US dollar was a bit (but not entirely) flippant. I remember when American money was real...back when it was on the Gold standard, and when the paper bills were Silver Certificates, redeemable in silver coin. I used to go as a kid to the bank and get those beautiful American silver dollars with Miss Liberty on one side and the eagle on the other...big, heavy coins. One for a dollar. Real money. Those days are long gone, and the value that stood behind the money then is long gone too. It's nothing more than a pyramid scheme. If we all went to the banks in the USA or Canada now, and tried to withdraw all our money, the system would collapse. The actual money simply isn't there, no more than it is in Argentina. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Escamillo Date: 24 Apr 02 - 12:49 AM News that warm up our hearts and blur our eyes: after being closed for 20 years, the oldest manufacturers of refrigerators, SIAM, has been taken under cooperative control of workers who are restoring the ruins of the factory. The first 100% nationally designed and built refrigerators (many of which are still working after 50 years) are again in the production lines, and the factory that once has 7,000 employees has already hired the first 200, and it is expected to recover many thousands of workers. FROM THE GROUND, as it is correct, as it has been told to us when we were children, as our grandparents did, as many of us are actually doing. Old workmen show some installations repaired, show their old hands and swear in front of the cameras that they will be taken out of the factory only dead. The same is beeing seen at the fields of wheat and corn, at fruit and cotton plantations, at small schools. There IS hope. Un abrazo - Andrés
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Bert Date: 24 Apr 02 - 01:02 AM Good news Andrés ol' buddy, one for the workers. Un abrazo to you too, and join in a chorus of "Free beer for all the workers" Bert.
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: hesperis Date: 24 Apr 02 - 12:03 PM Great news! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Apr 02 - 01:32 PM Well done! You have the people, you have the intelligence, the skills and the courage to do it yourselves, without the poisoned "gifts" of the foreign moneylenders, who are only looking to line their own pockets at your expense. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Ebbie Date: 24 Apr 02 - 05:07 PM Little Hawk, what is Canadian money based on? Gold? Silver? Anyone have any idea how much gold is currently in Fort Knox? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Apr 02 - 05:45 PM Gold is pretty, but as a measure of value it's always been a confidence trick. The same goes for banks, as the people in Argentina know too well.
Real wealth lies in the ability of people to work together. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: katlaughing Date: 24 Apr 02 - 06:00 PM Good news, Andres...tears in my eyes, too. Thansk for sahring with us. Ebbie, a quick check on google shows that Fort Knox once held around $56 billion, but no one knows, now, because of foreign loans and such, according to a couple of newspaper articlce I found. Also found this, which Aine would like: A Kentucky woman boasted to a Texan that there was so much gold in Fort Knox that you could build a wall of solid gold 10 feet high all around Texas. The Texan answered, "Well you just go ahead and build it, little lady, and if Ah like it, why Ah'll buy it." {{{{HUGS}}}} luvyakat |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: GUEST,pepe Date: 25 Apr 02 - 12:06 AM Argentina's government is scrambling on to come up with a new plan to tackle the economic crisis and somebody to implement it, following the resignation of the fifth Argentine economy minister in just over a year.
The country remaines paralysed on the third day of a bank holiday, called to avert a total collapse of the banking system. Jorge Remes Lenicov, the outgoing economy minister, had proposed to rescue the banks by converting billions of dollars in frozen deposits into government IOUs |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 25 Apr 02 - 12:31 AM Canadian money, like all currencies, is worth what investors think it is worth. Gold and silver reserves have not had relevance to western currencies for many years. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Bert Date: 25 Apr 02 - 04:03 AM ...Real wealth lies in the ability of people to work together... Ya know McGrath, the more I get to know you, the more I like you. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Little Hawk Date: 25 Apr 02 - 12:11 PM McGrath - That is the absolute truth! Ebbie - Canadian money, like American money, was once redeemable at the bank in silver coins at face value. It was taken off that standard in the late sixties, a few years after the silver certificates were terminated in the USA. That's what always happens. The USA does something to make things worse, and Canada does the same thing within 3 years or less. Canadian money is now based on the same thing American money is based on...nothing at all...other than a promise...from a group of highly unreliable people, billionaires all, with most of their money in offshore tax shelters and such. As long as everyone pretends the money is worth something, then it is. If they stop pretending...the show is over, and the banks shut down. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: Escamillo Date: 08 May 02 - 06:01 AM 12 days went on, this is just to report that this is worsening day by day. Legal actions against Argentina started to show up in Washington DC, and the IMF presses for an immediate derogation of the Bankrupcy Law which prevents foreign creditors to seize the assets of debtor local companies. Everything signals that large capitals are pushing to force the sale of all Argentinean companies and resources for a vile price, and this is not geopolitics, it's just plain robbery. In fact, the dilemma has no solution. A company which ought 1 million dollars to its suppliers abroad, now owes 3.3 million and raising. If the internal prices accompanied the raise, in a genuine inflation process, it would be possible for them to gather the 3.3 millions, but the problem is that there are no new emissions, salaries are frozen, and the circulating money is locked at the banks and being lent to a broken government at annual rates of 100% Today the Bank of Nova Scotia (under a 30 day suspension) accepted deposits from Otamendi Hospital to pay salaries, but then refused to pay to the employees, argueing that the bank is suspended and there is no obligation to pay. However they claim to those employees to cancel their credit card obligations, bringing money from elsewhere !The employer argues that they have paid the salaries on time, and everybody has to go to work. Moreover, those employees had been compulsively bankerized, and it was the employer who had chosen the Scotia for all of them. WE'VE JUST REACHED DELIRIUM TREMENS. Canadian friends, please don't feel attacked at all, it could have been any other bank. The IMF is "preparing" a new, viable plan for Argentina. S.O.S. On the other hand, steel industries reached 100% production capacity, oil exports are raising, cereals started to move, and many small manufacturers started production at the ruins of their facilities. Rich countries threatened to boicot Argentine products, but there has to be some market out there. Politicians, banks and corporations have decided to kill the hen of the golden eggs and bring their own. They don't know that there is no replacement. Un abrazo - Andrés (applying for a place at the NYCFTTS)
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 08 May 02 - 06:55 AM The meltdown in Eastern Europe showed that State Capitalism doesn't work in the long run. I'd see the troubles in Argentina as an indication that the same is true of Private Capitalism.
On a practical level I suppose we could be trying to look for Argentinian products so as to buy them when we can - a sort of anti-boycott. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: katlaughing Date: 08 May 02 - 10:13 AM Looking for stuff made in Argentna is good, but I have a feeeling, in most of the USA, it would difficult to find much. We could also be contacting our representatives in Congress, Parliament, etc. if it would do any good. Sometimes it feels like pissing in the wind...sorry, Andres, I am more hopeful than that. Maybe we should start a bumper sticker campaign...some short phrase about Argentina which catches a person's eye and makes them aware of the situation? This needs some kind of grassroots movement...let's think about this and see what our creativity can come up with, eh? Andres, I know you don't want to leave and it owuld definitely be Argentina's loss if you did, but please know, you, Graciela, and your sons, pets, etc. are always welcome in our home. Un abrazo, kat |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 08 May 02 - 11:06 AM Andres told us about Argentine guitars on another thread, and that's one thing, where we could maybe urge music shops to look into the possibility of their stocking them. They sound as if they are bargains too, so we win both ways.
And there's some great Argentine music to try to get hold of and buy and play and give as presents.
If there are any banks in our countries which are actually trying to play fair by the people of Argentina, that would be good to know as well. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 08 May 02 - 11:19 AM Here's a link to a part 2 for this thread - BS: Argentina - staying alive
This one with 92 posts is too slow for a lot of people to be able to open it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: GUEST Date: 08 May 02 - 11:53 PM I like the suggestion above. What address should be send 20 dollar (US) bills to? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina From: GUEST,Javier Date: 09 May 02 - 12:01 AM Of course, bad government policy can make matters worse, as we see in Argentina. What has probably happened in Britain is that mistaken courses have provoked a reaction that has led to their own reversal. When union power was threatening in the 1970s to make Britain the sick man of Europe, there was first the "International Monetary Fund" crisis and then the advent of Margaret Thatcher.
1. The main interest of the IMF, USA and the G7 is being able to collect the money that they loaned to us. I doubt that they are willing to put fresh money, maybe postponing maturities and interest payments if we are lucky.
2. Speed of the USA help to Turkey was not economically driven, but politically driven. Lots of muslim people leaves in Turkey and the USA needs to build some kind of support from the Arab world in its adventure to hunt Bin Laden. I strongly believe that if September 11 had not existed, Turkey would be in the same situation as Argentina. The only country that the USA is forced to support is Mexico as they share 3000 km of borders and a crisis in Mexico means millions of additional illegal immigrants.
3. I do not think the IMF is willing to provide full economic programs for two reasons: a)Previous experiences have proven pretty bad (combination of doubful advise from the IMF and disastrous implementation by our politicians) b)Read the postings in the forum and you will find plenty of people blaiming the IMF and USA for all our problems (corruption included).
|