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Subject: Sea term: bulgine pie From: radriano Date: 07 Jun 02 - 03:58 PM I know that "bulgine" was the American slang term for a railway engine but there are two shanties I know of in which the term "bulgine pie" is used. One is the river shanty "A-Rolling Down the River" whose full chorus is: Oh, a pumpkin pudden an' a bulgine pie, A pumpkin pudden an' a bulgine pie, A pumpkin pudden an' a bulgine pie, Aboard the Arabella! The other shanty is "Hilo, Boys, Hilo" which has the following verse: High an' dry we'll hoist her high, Hoist her high for a bulgine pie. Both of these shanties are in Hugill's "Shanties From The Seven Seas" but neither of the entries gives an explanation for the definition of "bulgine pie." Was there an actual dish called "bulgine pie" or was the phrase nonsensical? Regards, Radriano |
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Subject: RE: Sea term: bulgine pie From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy Date: 07 Jun 02 - 04:45 PM well it is not a sea term. If you understand that bulgine was also spelled bullgine, and comes from the same derivation as bulldozer and the like, think about a cow-gine pie, than think about a bull-gine pie! the bull is the power in any composite word like that, so the locomotive engine was called the bullgine, shortened by Stephen Foster and others to bulgine. |
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Subject: RE: Sea term: bulgine pie From: radriano Date: 07 Jun 02 - 05:03 PM Okay, okay, Bill, it's not strictly a sea term in the literal sense. I can see what you are getting at but I'm not sure I buy the explanation. |
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Subject: RE: Sea term: bulgine pie From: Mr Happy Date: 07 Jun 02 - 09:46 PM not a BULGING! pie, then? |
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Subject: RE: Sea term: bulgine pie From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy Date: 08 Jun 02 - 11:50 AM look in any dictionary, try Webster's, under bullgine- not bulgine- 'bulgine pie' is nonsense, there is no such 'dish', but I think it is meant to be scatalogical, like 'cow-pie', used for the rhyme & to go with 'pumpkin pudding'. These two shanties started life as railroad work songs, not sea shanties, so the connection to bulgines is to steam locomotives, maybe 'bulgine pie' is some slang expression for detritus involved with the railroad that has been forgotten, but I'd vote for a somewhat scatalogical nonsense rhyme. |
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Subject: RE: Sea term: bulgine pie From: michaelr Date: 08 Jun 02 - 02:06 PM Could it be some sort of food item that was cooked using the heat or steam from the locomotive? I seem to remember a thread a while back about another occupation-specific food (miners? something about throwing away the rolled end of a pie crust after it was handled by contaminated fingers). A shot in the dark, but hey. Cheers, Michael |
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Subject: RE: Sea term: bulgine pie From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 08 Jun 02 - 03:45 PM Bullgine, in railroad parlance, is a locomotive, as Bill Kennedy says. No idea what a bul(l)gine pie could be; probably nonsense. |
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Subject: RE: Sea term: bulgine pie From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 08 Jun 02 - 03:58 PM John Sampson gives another shanty 'Clear The Track Let The Bullgine (sic) Run'. In the note he writes 'Bullgine of course, means engine' |
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Subject: RE: Sea term: bulgine pie From: michaelr Date: 09 Jun 02 - 01:26 AM Keith A - that sounds like the song that was recorded by The Black Family under the title "Eliza Lee". Michael |
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Subject: RE: Sea term: bulgine pie From: Hrothgar Date: 09 Jun 02 - 04:30 AM It looks as though everybody has agreed that a "bullgine" ia an engine, but I'm still curious about the "pie." |
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Subject: RE: Sea term: bulgine pie From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 09 Jun 02 - 04:33 AM I never heard that one Michael, but Liza Lee plays a prominent part in this one. Colonial cousins may not know that steam locomotives were always called engines here. Keith. |
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Subject: RE: Sea term: bulgine pie From: Art Thieme Date: 09 Jun 02 - 07:43 PM My old uncle was killed during a pie eating contest. ****(SCROLL DOWN)**** The cow sat on him. Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: Sea term: bulgine pie From: little john cameron Date: 09 Jun 02 - 11:06 PM
This traditional sea shanty originated in America and was influenced by the Afro American sailors. It would have been sung aboard American packet ships while working the capstan or pumps.
'A bulgine' is sailor's slang for the railway engine used along or on the docks. 'Pumpkin pudden' is a dessert originated from New England. |
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Subject: RE: Sea term: bulgine pie From: Barry Finn Date: 10 Jun 02 - 12:10 AM Hi radriano Harlow, Colcord & a number of others have the spelling as bulgine. Can't say what the bulgine pie is but if I were to take a wild guess I'd go with it being a term used to describe manual labor. When I was in my early 20's (before the common use of cranes) we used a "donkey engine" to hoist heavy material. The donkey engine as I know it was pretty close to being the same as a buklgine (without the tracks), from what I've seen in photo's. When there wasn't a donkey about 2 or 3 or us (sometimes also called donkey's) would be called for to raise the material by hand using a derrick. During these type tasks we were refered or called by different names "Armstrong" being one of many, Manuel being another. I'd guess that Armstrong would called on to eat "bulgine pie" (get his back into his heavy work). The Pie theory now would only be a guess with no fact to back it up but I'd say that certain trades (roofer's being one) in the construction industry going back to before I worked with my granduncle to when he was young up untill the early 80's we were looked upon as unskilled hellraisers. The other trades wouldn't drink in the same bars because of the brawls, many of the bars refused to even let more than a couple in at a time & if it was somebody's local, one would have to vouch for the other. Like the old sailors they drank, gambled,lived & worked as hard or harder than most of the other in construction during those times. I'm only guessing from my gut & I'll eat "humble pie" if proved otherwise. Barry |
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Subject: RE: Sea term: bulgine pie From: Gina Dunlap Date: 10 Jun 02 - 04:19 PM Has any one heard of the John Bull Steam Locomotive Company? ( Hi Barry, great to see you at Mystic) |
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Subject: RE: Sea term: bulgine pie From: Marc Date: 11 Jun 02 - 10:01 AM Scatalogical nonsense phrase that rhymes. It means nothing. Thats what I always interpreted it as being. My vote is with Bill Kennedy. |
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Subject: RE: Sea term: bulgine pie From: Charley Noble Date: 12 Jun 02 - 10:08 AM Sounds to me like the same kind of nonesense as "seaboot duff", "handspike gruel", and "belaying pin stew." Any one for a roll in the scuppers? And since no one else has responded to Art above: "Arghhhh!"
Cheerily, |
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Subject: RE: Sea term: bulgine pie From: GUEST,Anne Croucher Date: 26 Nov 04 - 08:37 PM It could simply be a corruption, perhaps of 'a bully fine pie'? It is rather old fashioned but a bully meal, feast, 'table'or a stew - and so presumably a pie, would be a 'slap up' or 'first rate' do or dish, feeding fit for men, ebullient in the exuberant sense, overflowing and abundant. No soggy pastry over mostly air with a thin sad layer of something grey and gristly. Desperate Dan's cow pie would be a bully fine pie. Anne |
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Subject: RE: Sea term: bulgine pie From: Coyote Breath Date: 27 Nov 04 - 12:27 AM I recall these lines from a song whose title I can't remember; The finest clipper ship you'll find (Heave away, haul away) Is the Martha Evans of the Black Ball line (Clear away the decks and let the bullgine run) It's mighty windy 'round Cape Horn (Heave away, haul away) The roughest trip since I was born (Clear away tyhe decks and let the bullgine run) I don't remember where I heard it but I do remember the tune as well. I thought that bullgine was a reference to some very powerful engine used in conjunction with bringing cargo on board. That would be right if the bullgine is a quayside implement of some sort as Mr. Finn remarks on. CB |
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