WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?

Subject: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Jeep man
Date: 15 Jul 02 - 11:07 PM

What is the term "Hook" as used in writing songs? Jim

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Jul 02 - 11:21 PM

And what the heck is the turnaround?

~S~

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: paddymac
Date: 15 Jul 02 - 11:24 PM

I've heard the phrase used in two senses as regards music. One is the device or line used to capture the listener's attention. The other is in the nature of the "message" or "punch line." It's easy to think of it as a fishing metaphore. Then there's the older vaudeville notion of the hook - basically a people sized (but non-fatal, at least in the literal sense)gaff hook used to "encourage" some performers off the stage. I'm looking forward to what others might have to say.

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: paddymac
Date: 15 Jul 02 - 11:27 PM

The "turnaround" is a brief passage to allow a transition back to the beginning, especially in songs with several verses or verse/chorus pairs. We use the device mostly to give the vocalist a chance to grab a couple lungfulls of air.

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 15 Jul 02 - 11:42 PM

Back in the '70s the "Hook" was the place in the song where Donna Sommer faked an orgasm.

A hook is actually a cheap device upon which a song lyric is based. An example might be:

Oooh baby, luv ta luv ya
Luv ta luv ya yeah!

The title of the song would then be Ooooh Baby, Luv Ta Luv Ya. This is not really considered a sophisticated device by yours truly
Jim

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 15 Jul 02 - 11:46 PM

A hook is also a gaff...a vaudville term for being AWFUL.

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 15 Jul 02 - 11:53 PM

It was a long hooked pole used to pull untalented performers off stage and into the wings, according to the Random House Dictionary of America Slang it was first introduced in 1903 at Harry Miner's Bowery T heatre in New York City - immeidate ejection, removal, discharge, get the hook get that performer off the stage.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 15 Jul 02 - 11:58 PM

WYSIWYG - IDGET!!

What is your cranial cavity filled with tonight? YOU of all people KNOW better!!! --- Shame, Shame on you!!!

POST YOUR QUESTION AS A NEW THREAD

if you SINCERELY desire an answer and are not trying to be a thread creep - POST IT.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 12:01 AM

Jeep man,

First off, not all songs have a hook. Having said that, a hook is simply a line, usually in the chorus, of a song that stands out from the rest of the song in some way and grabs the listener's attention.

Example: Most folkies are familiar with John Prine's song "Paradise". Try to imagine the song without the line "Mr. Peabody's coal train done hauled it away". It wouldn't be the same song. That one line sums up J.P.'s feelings on the subject. The rest of the song is, in a way, the backdrop against which that one line is presented. It's also the one line most people who have never heard the song are going to remember.

I don't listen to commercial country music if I can avoid it, but most successful country songs have a hook. The strength of the hook is one of the things that country singers consider when choosing songs to record.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Susan,

A turnaround is sort of like that judge from the 70's definition of obscenity. I know one when I hear it but I'm damned if I can explain what it is to someone else. Is that a cop-out or what? *G*

Bruce

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 12:06 AM

As used in the creative arts, whether it's a song or an article it's a phrase or a thought that makes the reader/listener take notice, right? It makes them want to read/hear more. When I say, My uncle touched the floor of the ocean - and lived to tell about it!- that's a hook in the style of the National Enquirer. If my song says, Out the window I went, into the rain and the dark- that's a hook.

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Bull Am
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 12:16 AM

I've always thought of the hook of a song as being anything that grabs the listener's attention and pulls the song together...It can be a line, a chorus, or even a really catchy riff that sticks in people's minds and helps define the number as its own entity. I find the phenomenon is more noticeable in pop/rock music, where the entire song is based around this type of attraction, but its appeal covers all genres... I think I often get the turnaround mixed up or blended with the bridge...I'm a little confused there myself!

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 12:28 AM

Boy, if we don't agree on what the turnaround is, I'm certainly wrong! Many tunes are AABB, for instance- to me, a turnaround is just before the first A goes back and becomes the second A. It is often somewhat fancy, whether with a riff or with an unusual chord progression. Does someone else have a different view? I'm willing to be convinced.

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 12:46 AM

A hook can be musical or lyrical. The Beatles were masters of it.

Beep-Beep Beep beep yeah.

Eight days a week...

I wanna hold your hand.

Let it Be.

The airplane sounds at the beginning of Back in the USSR, etc etc. Thoe lads wrote some catchy stuff!!

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 01:08 AM

Let's hear it for Christian charity! Woo woo! *G*

So then what's that thing guitar players do while moving from one chord to another where they pick a couple of notes down or up or over to the new chord?

~Moandoggie's Idget

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Pene Azul
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 01:16 AM

Thread with some nice stuff on turnarounds: Turn Mudcat around now!

Jeff

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Bull Am
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 03:24 AM

Added whoopidy dahs from guitarists between chords are fills, but can possess the appeal of hooks...A hook is a fill is a riff...

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:06 AM

Or a run or a walkup...

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:07 AM

I think what Susan is asking about sounds like a bass run: a scalewise passage that links one chord to another.
Jim who still thinks hooks are a cheap substitute for good writing

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:10 AM

Yeah, Jim, that sounds more like it... G, G, G, dow dow dow C, C, C..... ???

In spirituals, then, the hook would be whatever was on the originator's mind when they struck off into song... the verses and responses (choruses) might float, zip, or vary from there but they would retain some contextual relationship to the hook...

Subject: Turnarounds, fills, bass runs, hooks... Huh?????
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:21 AM

CRS. Meant to add--

The turnaround? We have been calling it a tag line, is that wrong? Also, I think the REAL reason for them is so the singer can swallow spit. I know when we get a good gospel shout going on, breath is OK but spit builds up. (So sloppy to drool and sing. *G*) So depending on the way the phrasing of the chorus goes, we may add a little bit there to swallow.

Regarding thread creep-- see the subject line of this post, which I changed. That's all you need to do to make sure the thing comes up on a forum search if someone is looking.

~Susan

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:28 AM

/CC7FFm/C-G7-/.
That's a common turnround at the end of a blues verse.

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:31 AM

WYS if you're thinking about writing I'd forget about "the hook" and just write the blamed thing. Honest, in all of the books that I have ever read about the craft of lyric writing, I have never, ever seen even ONE reference to something called a hook. The best songs, traditional or by known composers are able to stand alone on their musical and lyrical strengths. Some examples I am thinking of are:

• Barbara Allen
• My Grandfather's Clock
• The Yellow Rose of Texas
• Somewhere Over the Rainbow
• Brother, Can You Spare a Dime?
• If I Had a Hammer
• Keep On the Sunny Side
• Will the Circle Be Unbroken
• This Land Is Your Land

I could go on.

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:38 AM

Oh no, not my writing. Just thinking about another way of describing spirituals and relating them to other newer forms.

~S~

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: MMario
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:54 AM

wow - that's incredible Jim - because I don't think I've ever read anything on song-writing that DIDN'T sooner or later refer to a "hook"

and there could be argument for at least several of the songs you have listed that they indeed HAVE a "hook" - implicit if not explicit.

A hook can be a musical phrase - it can be a lyrical phrase - or it can be a concept that the song is built around.

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 01:21 PM

Jim K, I think every one of the songs you listed has a hook: in the song title.

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: M.Ted
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 04:11 PM

More or less a list of hooks you posted there, Jim--

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Snuffy
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 08:22 PM

BullAm, you really muddies the waters here - I've always wondered what a bridge is in a song.

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 09:13 PM

I still disagree. I am sticking with my original definition of a hook. And that is a gimmick that disguises mediocre writing. A mediocre lyric needs a hook to propel the song. Anybody can come up with some repetitive cliché and build a hohum song around it. But it takes a real artist to come up with something the likes of Barbara Allen without it getting boring.

Now for those of you who support the notion of hooks, where's the hook in Barbara Allen? It's a straightforward story in meter.
Jim

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 09:28 PM

Snuffy, a bridge is a contrasting section to a song. Such songs with bridges are usually constructed this way: First verse
Second verse
Bridge
Third verse.

The verses have the same melody and usually, but not always have the same rhyme scheme. The bridge may have a different rhyme scheme, or not, but it should have a different or contrasing melody. Some good examples of songs with bridges are:

• Brother Can You Spare a Dime?
• Somewhere Over the Rainbow
• I Got Rythm

In musical shorthand, the structure can be labeled AABA. Make sense?
Jim

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Snuffy
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 08:30 AM

Thanks, Jim. All clear now.

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Amos
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 09:12 AM

The hook is Barbry Allen herself. You learn in the first three lines what a knockout she must be.

The notion of a hook comes from newspaper writing where the challenge is to open the story with language that will induce the reader to read the rest of the story in spite of the difficulties (small print, column layyout, page-folding). A good hook is usually found in the first paragraph and is language used to capture the interest.

In songs, the hook is the language (or music, i guess) used to capture the intereest of the listener.

A

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 10:31 AM

I understand the idea you are trying to get accross, Amos. But I am going to insist that a hook, either in a newspaper article, or a song is used to mask mediocre writing.

What makes Barbara Allen stand the test of time is that it is a compelling story of two star-crossed lovers; not some catchy cliché. As I sarcastically pointed out, back in the '70s Donna Sommer was a master at taking really lousy songs and creating hooks by faking orgasms. That got your attention, and who really cared? That driving disco beat was all that mattered. There was no compelling story like the one in Barbara Allen and the writing fell far, far below Henry C. Work's My Grandfather's Clock.

I will maintain, with all due respect, that a good lyric should stand on its own without a cheap crutch like a hook.
Jim

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: MMario
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 10:35 AM

the star-crossed lovers is a 'hook'.

It would be nowhere near as interesting if boy meets girl they fall in love, and live happily ever after with no problems.

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 10:49 AM

But Mario, it takes the whole song to find that out! That's the difference between what I'm talking about and what everybody else is trying to call a hook. After the hook, there's nothing to listen to in lyrics that are built around them.
Jim

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: MMario
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 10:57 AM

Okay - having a "hook" doesn't mean a good song - but good songs can have "hooks", and many do.

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 12:14 PM

The hook in Barbara Allen is using the same rhyme all through the song

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: SharonA
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 12:33 PM

I had the same definition of a hook as Jim Krause has... at least, until I read this thread. I tend to agree with Jim that the song elements that other people here are calling "hooks" have other terms of their own.

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 12:35 PM

I suspect that we're reacting to two very different kinds of hooks.

As paddymac and others said above, a hook can be a literal implement to symbolize displeasure. (Anybody remember the Gong Show?)

It is also a barb to catch others' interest, as Amos said, first in newspaper jargon then by extension to any kind of writing, including song. Used in this sense, it is in no way denigrating, but a recognition of the fact that if you don't catch someone's eye, you're not going to get read.

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: SharonA
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 12:41 PM

Here's an excerpt from this Craftsman's Corner page that reinforces what Ebbie just said (http://www.cqkmusic.com/CCorner/a13.htm):

THE REALITIES OF RADIOPLAY

Capturing the Listener

....In previous generations the hook has been called a motif or a refrain, but the concept is crucial for any kind of effective musical communication. (George Frederic Handel may never have heard the term, hook, but he definitely understood the principle. Could anyone write a more effective hook than "Hal-le-lu-jah" ?)

The dictionary definition for the implement known as a "hook" is this: A tool which is used to catch something, hold something, sustain it and pull it along. This is also a very good definition for a songwriting hook. A well-crafted hook will catch the listener's ear despite all competing visual and audio distractions. It will hold the listener's attention….sustain listener interest and pull the listener along to the very end of the song. And in case you hadn't noticed, all of these functions accomplish what radio hopes to achieve -- namely keeping their audience from changing channels.

Of course, the subject of hooks could fill several articles all by itself. In future editions of The Craftsman's Corner, we will definitely explore it further. But for our purposes here the following considerations are essential:

* The hook is the most memorable musical and lyrical element of the song. It is the thesis statement -- the one-phrase summary of the whole creation. It is like a diamond on velvet. The rest of the song is the velvet background which displays the beauty of that one magic "diamond phrase" known as the hook.
* The hook is usually also the title and should be strategically placed at the beginning or ending of the chorus….or at the first or last line of the A sections in an AAA or AABA song ….where the listener expects to hear it.
* A well-written hook/title will be so clear and obvious that listeners will know it from the first hearing and will be able to request the song BY TITLE when they call the radio station to request it.

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: SharonA
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 12:51 PM

Here's another excerpt, from The Muse's Muse (full article here: http://www.musesmuse.com/columnistsgreylogs/archives/00000157.html):

"Destination Songwriting" by Mary Dawson

...we have identified the Great Idea as the essential DNA of a Hit Song and the Hook/Title as the equally essential RNA. These two indispensable elements are the core of every Hit Song and comprise its thesis or main point. Using our analogy above, the Great Idea and the Hook it is "hanging on," are the destination of our song....

....Bob Dylan's classic, "Blowin' in the Wind", is a wonderful example of the payoff Hook appearing and repeating in the refrain of an AAA Song. Each A Section or verse of the song begins with a series of questions which are a very effective way of "setting up" the Hook to really deliver the answer.... Notice that the Hook appears in the same place in each A section and has the same musical and lyrical content....

As with the AAA Song, the AABA Song Form contains a series of verses with the same music but different lyrics. The only difference in this case is that the second and third verses are separated by a contrasting B or Bridge Section which adds drama and returns the listener to one more repetition of the now-familiar message and music of the final A Section. Again, the most effective placement of the Hook in this song form is in the first or last lines of each A Section. Think of the wonderful song, "Somewhere Over the Rainbow"....

Now we come to the Verse-Chorus Song – that amazing, exuberant Song Form that dominates so much of popular music in every genre. While there are many techniques for placing the Hook effectively in this Song Form, the prevailing guideline is that the Hook/Title should appear in the first and/or last line of the chorus and be the definite arrival point of each of the verses. While the verses can contain allusions to the Hook, they should not contain the Hook itself. Remember, the Hook is the payoff – the punchline of the joke....

...Most effective writers of every Song Form will begin by outlining what each verse will say and how it will conclude with the Great Idea of the Hook. As each verse adds new thoughts to the Great Idea, the Hook concludes those thoughts and burns itself into the hearts and minds of the listeners....

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: SharonA
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 01:02 PM

A short blurb from yet another article that discusses the changing definitions of songwriting and hooks (http://www.salon.com/ent/music/feature/2000/05/10/pop_song/):

....The traditional definition of a song -- a lyric set to melody over chord changes -- works fine for Jewel, Bob Dylan or Celine Dion. But it doesn't work for Metallica, Public Enemy, the Wu-Tang Clan or any other groups that build songs from riffs, beats and sound effects. Today's songs are fluid enough to embrace elements besides lyric and vocal melody. ...a defining hook in a hip-hop song is its catchy bass line, or a metal song's hook is its snarling guitar riff...

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: GUEST,Wayne
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 05:48 PM

I'm not very articulate but I think "It takes a worried man to sing a worried song" from Worried Man Blues is a good example of a "hook". By the way, Kenny Rogers wrote a book about the music business a few years ago in which he defined the "hook" and the "bridge".

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 05:57 PM

I agree: I think 'It takes a worried man to sing a worried song' is an inspired hook.

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: NicoleC
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 11:24 PM

Great articles, Sharon!

Way back when I took a "Record Production Management" class at USC. None of us could adequately define what a hook was in words. But throw on some records and every last one of us would pick out the same thing as the "hook," even though most of the songs had different way of hooking the listener.

This was solely a class by and for lucrative commercial production, so the, er, "rules" were: 1) In order to get played on the radio, you need to reach the hook within 30 seconds. 2) You can have more than one hook, but don't bother -- one will do and you can save the other for another song. (Ouch!)

I think #1 applies to most public performances, too. If an audience doesn't find something they want to hear pretty quickly, they'll go back to their beer in a hurry, and it's awfully hard to get their attention back once you've lost it.

Most traditional tunes seem to rely on the story itself to keep your interest -- one big long hook. You WANT to know what happened to Tom Dooley. Reading Sharon's quotes, I just noticed the big important bits of information in ballads seem to come in the same spots modern music puts the hook.

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 11:28 AM

OK, OK, OK! Ekj jäwe üt! (I give up!) I simply feel that reducing Oh Susannah or My Grandfather's Clockfor example to the hook distracts the audience or the scholar from the other little gems in each of these songs.

My Grandfather said that of those he could hire
Not a servant more faithful he found.
For it wasted no time but it had one desire
At the close of each day to be wound.
And it kept in its place
Not a frown upon its face
And its hands never hung by its side
But it stopped, short, never to go again
When the old man died.

Wow! Talk about clever! Notice all the puns! THAT is more than a measly, cheap hook. That is sheer brilliance. The old folks I sometimes sing for always remember this song with fondness. The sad part is that a song of this sterling quality could never get airplay. Why? Because it demands to be really listened to, unlike so much pop drivel.

As for It Takes A Worried Man, I don't think that is a hook so much as it is a hard, straightforward statement of the facts as the anonymous composer saw them. That's pretty typical of the blues; hard and straightforward without any self concious attempt at a hook.

I do agree, however to the necessity of the title appearing in a predictable part of the lyric. One of my frustrations at listening to budding songwriters is that if I wanted to buy the record the song is on, I wouldn't be able to identify my favorite song because I couldn't find the title in the lyric. Somehow even this simple technique seems to rise above the level of The Hook.

OK, I've said my piece, and I'm going to quit. You can write your songs with hooks if you like. But me, I ain't gonna. I hope someday to be able to write as well as Henry Work, barring that, rising to the level of Bill Staines would suit me fine.
Jim

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: MMario
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 11:38 AM

JIm - granted a good song will have far more merit then a hook. But that doesn't mean it won't have a hook!

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: X
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 03:30 PM

Kurt Vonnegut Jr. gives a very good defintion as to what the "Hook" is in his book "Cat's Cradle."

"Mama, here's your boy."

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 03:34 PM

By the way, some versions of 'Grandfather's Clock' say "at the end of each day to be wound" but others say "week", not 'day'. It would be a poor Grandfather's Clock indeed that needed winding every day.

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 11:50 PM

Ebbie, Eegad! I've been singing it wrong all these years. I just looked up the real words, and you're right. It is "at the close of each week to be wound." What a wonderful song!
Jim

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 19 Jul 02 - 12:39 AM

Da HOOK is the thing at the end of the gaff----what ya gotta bite on before ya get hauled in.

Da scam is sayin' ya got a stone in the bag---that ya only need a potato to make a stone stew. Then ya goes to another place and gets a carrot or an onion and then a chicken----or da cash to buy dese tings---and desert and drinks to boot.

Or a gal goes into a truck stop. Sits alone in a booth and takes a cupcake out o' her purse. She puts one candle on it, lights it, and sadly, with a tear or two slidin' down her face, she sings a haltingly poignant "Happy Birthday To You". She not only gets whatever she wants from the restaurant but the truckers take up a collection for her. One of 'em gives her a ride and before they hit Pittsburgh, proposes marriage---or something else to her.

That's two o' millions o' scams---and dey all got hooks dat'll let ya pull in da sucker fish.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Big Mick
Date: 19 Jul 02 - 12:50 AM

Love in the Broom Closet

Two brooms were hanging in the closet and after a while they got to know each other so well, they decided to get married. One broom was, of course, the bride broom and the other the groom broom. The bride broom looked very beautiful in her white dress. The groom broom was handsome and suave in his tuxedo. The wedding was lovely. After the wedding at the wedding dinner, the bride broom leaned over and said to the groom broom, "I think I am going to have a little whisk broom!!!" "IMPOSSIBLE!!", said the groom broom...........! ....



(Are you ready for this?)



(It's really gonna grab ya!)



(Here it comes.....................)




"WE HAVEN'T EVEN SWEPT TOGETHER!"

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 19 Jul 02 - 12:52 AM

That lit candle in the cupcake is the hook. Singing the song with tears stramin' down SETS the hook good and solid. All that's left is the endgame.

And another old lady is separated from her life savings.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 19 Jul 02 - 12:57 AM

Mick,

That's why witches rode them broom sticks.

Art

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 19 Jul 02 - 03:05 PM

Jim, no one's *reducing* these songs to a hook except you! Whether you knew it or not, and whether you like it or not, it was the hook(s) in My Grandfather's Clock that made you want to listen to it over and over again, so that you appreciated the other words.
BJ

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: harvey andrews
Date: 20 Jul 02 - 07:42 AM

The hook is what the song hangs on. Take away the hook, the song falls. It can be a melody line, a lyric line,a mental picture the song evokes..all sorts of things, but it's that which gets inside your head and can't be got rid of.My head's stuffed full of them.."I ain't marchin' anymore"..."say Hello in there-oh" a lot of the musical ones are now football terrace songs worldwide it seems after the world cup, the best is The Pet Shop Boys' da daaa dada da da dum..how many of you hear the melody just by reading that? Or for most English radio listeners tumti tumti tumti tum? You're hooked!!!

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 21 Jul 02 - 08:16 PM

Think of 'American Pie' -- the verses are full of clever, oblique wordplays describing the history of popular music, but does the crowd sing along with them? No -- they sing 'Bye, bye, Miss American pie..'. THAT'S the hook!
BJ

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: RichM
Date: 21 Jul 02 - 08:31 PM

Any good arrangement has a "hook" : a musical or lyrical phrase that says more than just a chord indication over lyrics. It's an artful lyric or accompaniment that puts a unique stamp on the arrangement.
Every good rock song has this. Every good country song, ditto. and ditto ditto ditto for any genre. It's a step or two beyond pedestrian accompaniment, and all folk performers should strive to hear and play this way.

Down with generic chord accompaniment!

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 11:16 AM

No, no, no, Jonesie. It was superior quality writing that made me want to listen to and then learn My Grandfather's Clock.

I interpret Art's illustration of a hook to be as he says, a sort of scam, rather like Donna Sommer's fake orgasms in those awful disco numbers she recorded.

Look at the big picture, not the parts. Does the lyric hang together? Does it tell a coherent story, if that is the point? Does it have consistency of voice, view point, and time? If the answer to all these questions is "Yes" then it is not necessary to insert a cheap artifice into the lyric. Craftsmanship is what I'm talking about.
Jim

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 03:51 PM

Craftsmanship is what everyone is talking about Jim. Just as a good carpenter builds a house on a foundation, a good songwriter builds a song around a hook. The hook is what makes the song unique. The hook in that grandfather clock song, is anthropormorphizing the clock. The author is saying the clock was better than most people.

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Cobble
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 03:57 PM

Hook is the village where I live in east Yorkshire.

Cobble.

Subject: RE: WHAT IS THE 'HOOK'?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 04:39 PM

The scam illustration I used is from old friend Bruce Utah Phillips. I just recollected where I'd heard it before. Soooo, since it can be traced through the oral process, I guess it's a traditional example of what a hook is.

Art