BS: What have the Dutch ever done for us?

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Dutch ever done for us?
From: Dead Horse
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 07:34 AM

You may be interested in the origins of that old favourite sea shanty
Blood Red Roses. My researches have shown that the song owes its existence to the trade in Dutch bulbs.
Barges (mostly Dutch) would transport these bulbs from the lowlands of Holland to Lincolshire, where they would be grown, cut, and sent by coastal vessels to the island of Jersey (for the annual *Battle of the Flowers*).
This sea trade was discontinued during the war years, owing to the fall of Holland, and the dreaded U-Boat menace.
Flowers continued to be grown, however, smuggled into the country by the brave lads & lasses of the Dutch Underground Resistance. Shipped overland on bicycles (again, Dutch) and taken to Southhampton, then on to the Channel Islands. (The song *Daisy Daisy* or The Bicycle Made For Two, also comes from this era). The Germans were aware of this, and that is why they invaded the Channel Islands.
The vessels formerly employed in the flower trade now became free for trans-atlantic duties (Flower Class sloops?) and now carried lease-lend footwear for our brave lads in the trenches. The recently televised series *Das Boot* tells all about this period, albeit from the German perspective. The shanties *Blood Red Roses* & *Paddy Doyles Boots* came into being aboard these very vessels, which, incidentally, were transferred to inland waterways after the war.
You may still see barges decorated with flower paintings on sundry fittings & fixtures, and that is their origin also.
D.Horse.
Archivist extroadinaire.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Dutch ever done for us?
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 07:50 AM

A music Hall song - "Me Dear Old ...."

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Dutch ever done for us?
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 05:22 AM

What have the Dutch ever done for us?
Personally?

I'm a lady, so I couldn't possibly comment. ;)

Fib
(currently dating Dutchmen)

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Dutch ever done for us?
From: Willie-O
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 06:10 AM

They sent a bunch of tulip bulbs to my hometown, Ottawa, after WWII, with a thank-you note for our putting up their royal family during the Nazi occupation. (While they were in Ottawa, the queens's room in the Ottawa Civic Hospital was temporarily declared Dutch territory so the princess could be born in the Netherlands) We've had this big tulip festival in the spring ever since.

More recently, some Dutch folks have decided to give Ottawa a windmill, a full-size one, as another token of esteem for their WWII liberation by Canadians & Brits. Problem is, no one seems to want it in their neighbourhood! Figure it's just a landmark for the coming invasion I guess.

W-O
Anyone offered your town a windmill recently? Just wondering...

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Dutch ever done for us?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 06:12 AM

Charles II (who had had a few run-ins with the Dutch authorities when he was in exile) used to refer to them as "stinking butterboxes", and, as insults go, I've always felt that is rather an endearing one.

As for "Sabot Age...Sabotage!!!"The term sabotage actually comes , I understand, from the alleged practice of using wooden or iron edged sabots for damaging machinery in an industrial dipute - the same idea as putting "a spanner in the works". But they'd have been French sabots rather than Dutch.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Dutch ever done for us?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 06:16 AM

Dutch courage, Dutch uncles ... apart from that, they're OK.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Dutch ever done for us?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 06:28 AM

Dutch blinds, dutch barns ... those are handy, aren't they?

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Dutch ever done for us?
From: poetlady
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 06:29 AM

Well, they gave me my funny last name. They also gave us a painter who chopped off an ear. Oh, and one of the prettiest fellows I've ever seen.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Dutch ever done for us?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 09:41 AM

And this old drinking song:

There's the Highland Dutch,
And the Lowland Dutch,
The Rotterdam Dutch,
And the other damn Dutch!

Glorius!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Dutch ever done for us?
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 10:34 AM

Hi there DH,

"You may be interested in the origins of that old favourite sea shanty
Blood Red Roses. My researches have shown that the song owes its existence to the trade in Dutch bulbs."

I always thought that this was a whaling song (traditional) dating back to the 19th Century?

"Barges (mostly Dutch) would transport these bulbs from the lowlands of Holland to Lincolshire, where they would be grown, cut, and sent by coastal vessels to the island of Jersey (for the annual *Battle of the Flowers*)."

I thought Jersey grew enough flowers of their own to have their Battle of the Flowers, which started in 1902 to celebrate the coronation of Edward VII.

"This sea trade was discontinued during the war years, owing to the fall of Holland, and the dreaded U-Boat menace."

The fall of Holland would make that the Second World War, as Holland successfully managed to steer clear of the First one.

"Flowers continued to be grown, however, smuggled into the country by the brave lads & lasses of the Dutch Underground Resistance. Shipped overland on bicycles (again, Dutch) and taken to Southhampton, then on to the Channel Islands."

Pal of mine from the Navy is a native of Guernsey, a couple of times when we visited, his mum used to make us crab shell and sea-weed soup, a recipe dating from occupation days - any land they had on the occupied channel islands was used for growing food. Holland too towards the end of the war was also starving. With the agreement of local German commanders RAF bombers were used to drop food for the civilian population.

"(The song *Daisy Daisy* or The Bicycle Made For Two, also comes from this era). The Germans were aware of this, and that is why they invaded the Channel Islands.

The correct name of the song is "Daisy Bell" and was written by Harry Dacre in 1892.

"The vessels formerly employed in the flower trade now became free for trans-atlantic duties (Flower Class sloops?) and now carried lease-lend footwear for our brave lads in the trenches. The recently televised series *Das Boot* tells all about this period, albeit from the German perspective. The shanties *Blood Red Roses* & *Paddy Doyles Boots* came into being aboard these very vessels, which, incidentally, were transferred to inland waterways after the war."

The "Flower Class" Sloops of the First World War were all purpose built minesweepers. Officially the class names were "Arabis", "Azalea" & "Acacia" - all built between 1915 and 1916. They had a loa of some 267 feet, a beam of 33 ft and a displacement of 1200 tons. They never were used in the Atlantic or for carrying cargo.

The "Das Boot" film, which is one of the most authentic submarine movies I have ever seen, is definitely Second World War, in which case the applicable "Flower Class" would describe a class of Corvettes, based on an existing Smith's Docks design for a Whale Catcher. Again these were purpose built warships and did not carry cargo. The size, beam, draught and height of their masts and funnels would have gone against these vessels working on inland waterways.

I reckon both the shanties you mention are older.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Dutch ever done for us?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 10:54 AM

The Dutch engineer Vermuyden drained much of the fens by modifying and supplementing it's original system of rivers and ditches. In the case of the Rivers Nene and Great Ouse, he provided much more direct channels to the Wash. In fact he even reversed the flow on the part of the Ouse (The Old West River) near Ely. Although initially some of his changes caused localised flooding or silting, fine tuning over the following centuries has resulted in us gaining some of our best agricultural land - as well as many navigable waterways.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Dutch ever done for us?
From: Kim C
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 12:13 PM

Weren't it a Dutchman what invented the microscope?

What I think is interesting about the Dutch, is how they tried to take over the world.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Dutch ever done for us?
From: Dead Horse
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 12:45 PM

Dear Teribus, you are obviously living in the universe where the Germans lost both wars. In my (parrallel)(thats the way it's spelled in mine)universe the Kaiser won the 1914-47 war.
It seems Mudcat is the cross-over point of our universes.
You can have no idea how hard it is for me to attend catter gatherings, as the wife & I can barely fit into our modem.
AND in my universe, Holland is mountainous, Buddist, and invented the cuckoo clock.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Dutch ever done for us?
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 01:29 PM

Good on Ya DH - In your universe can Scotland play Rugby? This question prompted by a bit of a flash in the pan last Saturday.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Dutch ever done for us?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 19 Nov 02 - 05:27 AM

You didn't seem to have any trouble crossing over into our universe at Tenterden or any number of other places, Dead Horse. Do our universes tend to touch in the Kentish area and also come to think of it at Stony Stratford ? Also is the Captain Ahab look fashionable in your universe ?

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Dutch ever done for us?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Nov 02 - 09:00 PM

But folk festivals actually aren't in the same universe as daily living. Sort of hazy in-between places. Take the wrong, or arguably tye right, turning and you emerge in a completely diffeent universe. A "folk variant", to use the technical term. That explains a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Dutch ever done for us?
From: khandu
Date: 19 Nov 02 - 10:15 PM

Alas, only Little Hawk and I see the horrors that lie ahead. Being one of the "Wise Ones" is a lonely life, ain't it, LH?

khandu

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Dutch ever done for us?
From: khandu
Date: 19 Nov 02 - 10:16 PM

Alas, only Little Hawk and I see the horrors that lie ahead. Being one of the "Wise Ones" is a lonely life, ain't it, LH?

khandu

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Dutch ever done for us?
From: banjoman
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 11:11 AM

Apart from Hagglemix for chocolate sandwiches, my Mother in Law (an absolute gem) and therefore my wife, In addition to lots of useful words (yacht dyke ) and a particular brand of courage which necessitates the consumption of large quantities of Cherry Heering or Scnapps.