Subject: RE: Deportees From: catspaw49 Date: 03 Oct 01 - 10:24 PM Thanks muchly Joe....That had to be a tough find and it surely does make the song obvious as Mac said....almost like sitting in Woody's mind as he wrote. AND GENIE.......Yeah, Woody didn't write the tune although it would be more accurate to say that Woody didn't put a tune to it.......Woody didn't write many tunes at all!!!!!(:<)) Spaw |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: GUEST,karen Date: 03 Oct 01 - 10:16 PM McGrath. I'm not sure nothing changes. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong as I've not studied this much over the recent few decades but,....at the time the song was written, wasn't it US law that any of those illegals that managed to have a baby while in the US could remain because the child was a US citizen? And, was the law later altered to state that only children born of at least one citizen parent were naturalized? |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: GUEST,Genie Date: 03 Oct 01 - 08:51 PM Not that this excuses the paper for not following up, but is it possible that in 1948 passenger lists were not readily available? I often hear news reports nowadays that say things like, "to Iraeli (or Palestinian) children and their father were killed by a bomb ...). Genie |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: Bev and Jerry Date: 03 Oct 01 - 08:33 PM Joe:
Thanks for the article. We saved it. When a little more time has passed sincd September 11, we'll read it to the kids before we do the song. This will give them the message a lot better than what we've been saying. Bev and Jerry |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 03 Oct 01 - 07:29 PM Names of the crew, no names of the deportees - you can see how the song would have shaped itself as he read that report.
"...Mexican nationals who entered the United States illegally, and others who stayed beyond duration of work contracts in California... All were agricultural workers."
"Some of us are illegal, and some are not wanted, Our work contract's out and we have to move on"
Nothing really changes does it? "Economic migrants" they'd call them today. |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: GUEST,Genie Date: 03 Oct 01 - 05:15 PM Joe, For what it's worth, I prefer the tune that The Whiskey Hill Singers use for Deportees. Maybe that's because I heard it first, but I think it's a prettier tune than the one more commonly heard. Sweet Honey In The Rock have still a different tune. Anyway, Woody didn't write the tune, so I guess it's ok to stray from the one folks usually sing. In fact, I think what I sing now is a combination of the Whiskey Hill version and the more common one, mainly because they've kind of blended in my mind, with my favorite parts of each being retained. Rich, from what I've seen of Woody's original notebooks (in the travelling Smithsonian exhibit), he probably DID write "rott'ning.' |
Subject: Deportee - Newspaper Article From: Joe Offer Date: 03 Oct 01 - 04:35 PM I've been meaning to post this for quite some time, but never got around to it. This is the text of an Associated Press article from the New York Times, printed on January 29, 1948, the day after the fateful "Plane Wreck at Los Gatos Canyon." I imagine this must be the very same article that Woody Guthrie read, the one that inspired him to write "Deportee." -Joe Offer- From the New York Times, January 29, 1948 32 KILLED IN CRASH OF CHARTER PLANE California Victims Include 28 Mexican Workers Who Were Being Deported FRESNO, Calif., Jan. 28 (AP) A chartered Immigration Service plane crashed and burned in western Fresno County this morning, killing twenty-eight Mexican deportees, the crew of three and an Immigration guard. Irving F. Wixon, director of the Federal Immigration Service at San Francisco, said that the Mexicans were being flown to the deportation center at El Centro, Calif., for return to their country. The group included Mexican nationals who entered the United States illegally, and others who stayed beyond duration of work contracts in California, he added. All were agricultural workers. The crew was identified as Frank Atkinson, 32 years old, of Long Beach, the pilot; Mrs. Bobbie Atkinson, his wife, stewardess, 28; and Marion Ewing of Balboa, copilot, 33. Long Beach airport officials said that Mr. Atkinson, formerly of Rochester, N.Y., had logged more than 1,700 hours flying time as a wartime member of the Air Transport Command. The guard was identified as Frank E. Chaffin of Berkeley. The plane, which was chartered from Airline Transport Carriers of Burbank, was southbound from the Oakland airport, when it crashed in view of some 100 road camp workers. Foreman Frank V. Johnson said that it "appeared to explode and a wing fell off" before it plummeted to the ground. A number of those in the plane appeared to jump or fall before the aircraft hit the earth, he added. The wreckage was enveloped in flames when the fuel tanks ignited. Not until the fire died down were rescuers able to get near the plane. By then, there was nothing to be done but to extricate the bodies. The scene of the crash is in the mountains about twenty miles west of Coalinga, seventy-five miles from here in the rough coastal area. |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: Maryrrf Date: 27 Mar 01 - 09:34 AM I like the version of this song that was done by "The Highwaymen" - which was Johnny Cash, Willy Nelson, Chris Christopherson and Waylon Jennings touring together. I didn't realize it had been recorded by so many others! |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: simon-pierre Date: 27 Mar 01 - 01:20 AM Good discussion on the meaning of the song in this Other thread |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: raredance Date: 27 Mar 01 - 12:13 AM The recently published "Woody Guthrie Songbook" (1999) and the old "Woody Guthrie Songbook" (1976) both contain a couple minor differences from the lyrics that Joe posted above. End of the first line is "rott'ning" which looks not quite right, but I think some of the recordings actually use it. Second line "oranges" becomes a three note word, or-an-ges, "are" is dropped. In the chorus the line is give as "You won't have your names...". Not just any name but "your" name seems directly more personal. And the last word is plural "deportees" One of my favorite versions of the song is by Sweet Honey In The Rock, has a real emotional intensity, as does most of their material. rich r |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: GUEST,BigDaddy Date: 26 Mar 01 - 10:56 PM I've been haunted by the imagery and beauty of this song for years (first heard it sung by Dolly Parton). Just this past week I've finally gotten around to teaching it to myself. So I was startled at the synchronicity of seeing the thread here. Anybody else have one of those moments on Mudcat? |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: Joe Offer Date: 26 Mar 01 - 08:09 PM Collectors Choice Music just released a 14-cut CD called Dave Guard & the Whiskeyhill Singers. Some of the cuts are great, but I can't say I like their recording of "Deportee." -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: Mark Clark Date: 21 Jan 01 - 11:51 PM I first heard friends sing this wonderful song but the first recording of it I remember hearing was done by the short-lived Whisky Hill Singers in the early sixties. - Mark |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: Doctor John Date: 21 Jan 01 - 01:59 PM There is certainly no recording of Woody performing this either for the Library of Congress (and not all of these are released) or for Moe Asch. However he did make a series of recordings - 200, I think - for his music publishers, the Richmond Organisation. The Guthrie family at one time agreed to release these but later had a change of mind. One has been released (somehow) by the Bear Family - "I've Got To Know". I suppose there is a possibility that "Plane Wreck" may have been recorded in this series but I have never been able to obtain the list. Joe - Creosote Dumps. The fruit growers in California soaked their excess fruit, which was going to waste, in creosote to make it uneatable so it could not be "stolen" and eaten by the hungry migrant families. Nice what we do to each other. Dr John |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: Peter T. Date: 21 Jan 01 - 11:59 AM jaze, is that right? Did they leave the Arlo/Emmylou song off the album -- damn, I was going to go out and get it, as I saw the video just last night. Emmylou Harris at her most gorgeous (I mean this most sincerely, even as a big fan, but boy, did she look great). Where was I? Oh yes, nice version of Vigilante Man, as well, by Bruce Springsteen (nothing to do with the Guthrie version at all). And terrible pontificating by Bono of U2. To make a useful contribution to this thread -- Nanci Griffith did an interesting version of Deportees on one of her group albums (Trip to Bountiful maybe): Tish Hinojosa injects a little Spanish!!!!yours, Peter T. |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: mkebenn Date: 21 Jan 01 - 10:54 AM I am always amazed at the blank stares this song receives in certain circles, it made me weep as a twelve year old.."Farewell to my Juan, farewell Rosalita" Mike |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: Bev and Jerry Date: 20 Jan 01 - 08:57 PM Joe:
Nice post. These are the lyrics we have used for many a year so they must be the right ones! Bev and Jerry |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: jaze Date: 20 Jan 01 - 07:45 PM The best version of this song I've heard was by Emmylou Harris and Arlo Guthrie on the "Vision Shared" video. Sadly, one of the best performances(I think) was left off the CD. So I frequently watch the video. They should do a whole album together. |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Jan 01 - 06:36 PM A mention of the original tune Woody used comes in this recent thread, with the words "Woody performed the song as at least one of the Peoples' Artists hoots in New York, but his original tune was almost a flat monotone and it (the tune) was not well received." I'd like to hear it sometime - I can think of some great songs which people have put down as having pretty well no tune. You don't necessarily need to use a lot of notes. |
Subject: Corrected Lyrics: Deportee From: Joe Offer Date: 20 Jan 01 - 05:19 PM Balladeer told me that the lyrics in the database don't match what's in the Judy Collins songbook, so I checked that book and Carry It On (Pete Seeger and Bob Reiser) and the Sing Out! Reprints book and came up with the lyrics I'll post below. They don't exactly match the Collins version - it's my extrapolation from the three of what seems to me to be closest to the "original." I relied most heavily on Carry It On, because that seemed to be the most credible source. I see above that I noted that Woody chanted the lyrics with no specific tune. I wrote that back in the days when I was more casual about documenting my sources, and now I can't find the information again. Anybody know of a source that explains that Woody chanted the song? -Joe Offer- DEPORTEE Full name of the song is "Deportee (Plane Wreck at Los Gatos Canyon)." Woody Guthrie wrote the lyrics after reading an article from the New York Times. The New York Times of January 29, 1948 reported the wreck of a "charter plane carrying 28 Mexican farm workers from Oakland to the El Centro, CA, Deportation Center....The crash occurred 20 miles west of Coalinga, 75 miles from Fresno." recorded on Judy Collins/3 and Guthrie Greatest |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca Date: 06 Oct 97 - 05:39 PM I think that I had that album years ago. Does it have a version of the song that goes "Way down yonder in the Indian nation/ I ride my pony on the reservation" . . . I do remember a version of Buffalo Skinners. Is it a lot slower than you usually hear it sung? |
Subject: Lyr Add: DEPORTEES (Woody Guthrie) From: Becky Date: 05 Oct 97 - 08:41 PM Well, I tried 3 times to post these words last night...better late than never?!? (If it'll let me this time!) Arlo Guthrie did a documentary about Woody, some 10-15 yrs back. A friend of mine got it on videotape, and I taped (audio) a song Arlo and Emmylou Harris sang, Deportees. These are the words to that version. Sorry, none of it was in a 'chant' form. DEPORTEES (Woody Guthrie) The crops are all in and the peaches are rotting. The oranges are packed in their creosote dumps. They're flying you back to the Mexico border To pay all your money, to wade back again.
My father's own father, he waded that river.
CHORUS: Goodbye to my Juan. Goodbye, Rosalita.
Some of us are illegal, and some are not wanted.
We've died in your hills. We've died on your deserts.
The sky plane caught fire over Los Gatos Canyon.
Is this the best way we can grow our big orchards? Sorry I have no chords of music to add, but providing there's no major typos, at least here are the words. Becky aka O2bnmbr1 |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: Joe Offer Date: 04 Oct 97 - 05:56 PM Come to think of it, I don't really know what that phrase means, about oranges being stacked in their creosote dumps. I lived in Fresno for five years, so you'd think I would know. I never did see what happened to rotten fruit - I guess I just assumed it went for cattle feed. Leprechaun or somebody, can you explain? -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: leprechaun Date: 04 Oct 97 - 05:11 PM In my The Greatest Songs of Woody Guthrie album, the song is parenthetically called "Plane Wreck at Los Gatos," and the album cover says, "Words,Woody Guthrie;Music,Martin Hoffman." And in the song on the album sung by Cisco Houston, the oranges are stacked in their creosote dumps, which seems to be a recurring image in Woody Guthrie's works. The album also has "Buffalo Skinners," one of my favorites. |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: Bill D Date: 04 Oct 97 - 12:34 AM Searching the entire internet for 'deportee' gave 123 hits...includuing PP&M websites and Woody Guthrie sites...maybe there is something out there...(I was too sleepy to look all the way thru the list..) |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: Wolfgang Date: 01 Oct 97 - 03:31 AM the option is already there: enter deportee*, or if you want even *portee* |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: RS Date: 30 Sep 97 - 07:47 PM Well I had checked the Database for "Deportee", and when I was told "Sorry, no documents were found which match your query", I didn't even bother to check for "Deportees", because I assumed that "Deportee" would have been recognised as a _part_ of the longer word "Deportees", if either word were in the Database. Did indeed find the song when I rechecked for "Deportees". I gather that the search for text within the Forum Threads _is_ this kind of "inclusive" search (sorry, I don't know the technical name) where, for example, a search for "Art" will retrieve both "Arthur" and "Martin". Perhaps it would be a good idea to include this in the Database Search as well - either as the default mode, or at least as an option (if it is felt to be too inclusive for general use). Thoughts on this? |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca Date: 28 Sep 97 - 11:09 PM I don't think I ever had an album of Arlo Guthrie and Pete Seeger together, but I did see them at the 1980 Atlantic Folk Festival in Nova Scotia so maybe I heard it then and it stuck in my mind. (Although very little from that weekend sticks in my mind) BTW, today I found a whole box of my vinyl when looking through my storage locker. It was like meeting a group of old friends after a ten year separation. Woody, alas, was not there. |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: Joe Offer Date: 28 Sep 97 - 02:19 AM Hi, Tim - I e-mailed the guy with the big Woody Web site, and he claims to have a discography of just about everything Woody recorded - with no recording of "Deportee" until after the tune was added in the 1960's. Arlo recorded it on the "Together in Concert" album he did with Pete Seeger in 1975, but he used the 1960's tune. -Joe- |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca Date: 27 Sep 97 - 11:21 PM I seem to have a dim recollection of this being sung by Arlo Guthrie, but I could be wrong because in the days before the loss of almost all of my vinyl I had several Woody Guthrie collections and I might be confusing the two. |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: Joe Offer Date: 27 Sep 97 - 01:56 PM Thanks, RS. The Woody Web Site was really interesting - but no "Deportee." The song is listed in the database as "Deportees," by the way. I'll keep looking. It may be there were no recordings because it may not have been much of a song until Martin Hoffman came up with an actual tune. -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: RS Date: 27 Sep 97 - 01:04 PM Should've checked my bookmarks before submitting the last post. Check out "The Woody Guthrie Pages" at: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~davida/woody.html - the site includes "Discography" & "Record Info", so it might well answer your enquiry. Also the lyrics to Deportee are at: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~davida/0deportee (These differ slightly from the ones in the "Judy Collins Songbook", e.g. the website has "The oranges are filed in their creosote dumps" vs the songbook has "piled", which makes more sense to me ... but I'm not in the mood to do proofreading today). Haven't checked the Woody Guthrie website in detail though ... let me know if it has what you're looking for! |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: RS Date: 27 Sep 97 - 12:54 PM Sorry, can't help with the Woody Guthrie recording. There is a later version on the album "Judy Collins #3" - EKS-7243. "The Judy Collins Songbook" gives the following information: "Deportee: Plane Wreck at Los Gatos - Words by Woody Guthrie; Music by Martin Hoffman - Copyright 1961 and 1963 Ludlow Music Inc., New York, N.Y." Are you looking for the words? - I didn't find them in the database, can post them if needed. |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: Joe Offer Date: 27 Sep 97 - 05:36 AM I'm still looking for a recording of Woody's original, chanted version of this song. Anybody know where I might find it? |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: Bill Date: 23 Jan 97 - 01:44 PM I just found the Library of Congress recordings. They were made by Alan Lomax. He interviewed and recorded Woody Guthrie in 1940 so it was before Deportee. They are on Rounder:CD's 1041--1043 |
Subject: RE: Deportees From: Bill Date: 23 Jan 97 - 09:59 AM I remember hearing a set of songs that Woody Guthrie was comissioned to do for the Library of Congress, I think "Deportee" may have been on it but I am not sure of the tune. That might be a starting point though. Good Luck. hoymanwi@dmps.des-moines.k12.ia.us |
Subject: Deportee - looking for background information From: Joe Offer Date: 23 Jan 97 - 04:13 AM I think it was January, 1948, that a plane crashed in the beautiful green hills of Los Gatos Canyon, about 10 miles from Coalinga, California. The plane carried workers who were being deported to Mexico. The crash killed everyone aboard. Woody Guthrie read a New York Times article about the crash, and wrote "Deportees." As I understand it, Woody chanted the lyrics to no particular tune; and then a tune was written by a schoolteacher in the 1960's. I wonder if anybody knows where I can get a recording of Woody chanting the original version. Any ideas? Joe Offer Click for lyrics in Digital Tradition |
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