What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?

Subject: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: wilco
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 05:21 PM

The thread on the meager talent in today's country music raised a question in my mind. I'm about 100 miles from Nashville, and I've met lots of people in the "music business." One of these people is the comptroller for Gaylord Entertainment, which owns the Grand Ol' Opry and WSM radio ("Home of the Opry). I've often commented that Gaylord has absolutely blown their franchise in country music, failing to capitalize on their heritage, miserable marketing, etc.
    Wouldn't it be something if the Opry re-gressed to earlier, less-polished formats, featured less "Nashville" stuff, etc.
    I would can the top forty format, sponsor talent shows all over the south, get real big in the festival scene, push indy record labels, get the WSM network all over USA (with regional tie-ins), etc. In short, I'd do what they did 75 years ago, and give people what they want.

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: khandu
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:10 PM

Hell, I'd go through the honky-tonks and find some real country boys who hate the glammer-glitzy-cookie-cutter mentality that is so prevalent in "Today's Country".

I'd ride the backroads and find the boys that only play at get-togethers in somebody's home, places where the old songs in the old style are not forgotten.

I'd chase away all the Shania wannabes (and Shania, too!) along with the pretty boys who are taught how to smile and strut and pose.

I would showcase only real musicians, no matter if they weren't sexy-good-looking hunks and babes.

And I would die broke!

Ken

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: Frankham
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:42 PM

One of the reasons the music business is in trouble today is that the executives are out of touch with what people really want. But they cling to their business model formulas. Going back to the honky-tonks of yesteryear isn't going to widen an audience for country music either. Hank is gone and can't be replaced. Same for Elvis. Country music may have to be redefined and bluegrass music is helping to do this.

WSM acquired the Opry under Judge Hays because WSB in Atlanta decided country music which was popular in Atlanta in the 20s was too declasse. In short, WSB had snob execs which made a fatal decision and forcefully exported "Country" to Nashville. When the Opry left Ryman it became corporate.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 08:42 PM

I've been to Nashville once. Arrived on a Grayhound bus from D.C. Stayed in a broke down old hotel 'cause it was cheap and I was broke. Went up to WSM's offices and got their free tickets to the Opry at the Ryman. Saw a great show which included Roy Acuff balancing his fiddle bow on his nose to bring out applause for other acts when he wanted it. I also saw a mentor-from-afar of mine named Hank Snow. (He never knew he was that.) I followed him to Champaign, Illinois and caught his shows at the Illinois State Fair before I headed back home to Chicago where I got a job at the Old Town Folklore Center---the retail outlet for the school Frank Hamilton was one of the founders of.

I don't know if this idea of Wilco48's would work or not, but nothing since the Opry left the Ryman has ever made me think about going back there-------until I read Wilco48's idea. All that'd keep me from doing that would be my health situation now. It does sound good though.

Just remember what Utah Phillips was talkin' about when he said that something was "good though".    ;-)

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 12:58 AM

I would change the format. There are still old time stars on the Opry every week but they are shoved in the background. L'il Jimmie is there nearly every week so make sure he's on the TV segment.
Newer singers who play traditional stuff don't have a hope in hell because the record companies are setting the agenda.
Perhaps country music should be defined as having to contain country music. I.E> NO SHIT ALLOWED!
               Sandy

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: GUEST,Dale
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 02:40 AM

First thing I'd do would be to hire Lester "Roadhog" Moran and his Cadillac Cowboys and start me a Saturday Morning Radio Show.   Then I'd get about a half dozen more bands like that and fill up the whole morning with "LIVE" music.   Mistakes allowed, sounding like Garth, Toby and the rest not allowed. Let 'em advertise baby chicks and home remedys. Read letters from the listeners, play requests, and plug their show that night at the Elks Club.

Saturday nights reserved for the Opry, of course, BUT the big stars who show up one in a blue moon don't automatically get the portion shown on TV. On Friday nights, there'd have to be sort of a WLS National Barn Dance Show, with a bit more variety. I wouldn't even mind having the opera singer, the really bad comedian, and the little kid with the guitar who just might even turn out to be another George Gobel.

Have to have a Renfro Valley sort of show on Sunday Morning, pious talk and gospel music required.   Actual preaching optional, but absolutely NO begging for money. Listeners can tune out if they don't like it.

Early evenings Monday thru Friday would be the WJJD Suppertime Frolic sort of show. Get a Randy Blake type to spin the records. (Yes, records only) Hank Williams, Hank Snow, The Chuck Wagon Gang, they'd all have their 15 minute segment. Wouldn't even mind if the commercials, all delivered by the Randy Blake sound alike outnumbered the songs. Advertise the harmonicas, song books, and Royal Crown Cola. Make sure the Randy type let everyone know that if they didn't order the very next day, that they likely wouldn't be able to get those fine products. Finish it off with old transcriptions of Lonnie and Wayne, The Carter Family and The Blue Sky Boys.

All the other time slots would feature real country music. Oh, I'd let 'em play the so called "new" stuff, but restrict the amount, sorta like Canadian Content rules, only make it stricter, maybe 10%, and they'd have to balance it out by playing one from the 30s or 40s for every one.

Now we are talking unlimited funds, aren't we?   Buy up the close by frequencies and shut them down, so Clear Channel really means just that again, so at night the music wings its way out over the air waves to most of the country, and a good bit of Canada, so little boys can lie in their beds and listen when they are supposed to be sleeping. At least one Hank Snow would have to be played each night, so the kid could drift off to sleep satisfied.

Buy The Nothing Network and change the name back to The Nashville Network. Hire David Holt to run the place.

Sit back and enjoy it, and watch the money roll out. Who knows, people might even learn to like it.

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: Frankham
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 11:40 AM

The "Barndance" format was a great innovation in radio, I think. It was less "star" centered in that there was a variety of acts. Lulu Belle on WLS and others were great "stars" but not like the way Nashville hypes it's recording artists today.

The connection between the performers and the audience on a personal level seems to have lessened in recent years. The fan may not be as important as he/she once was.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 11:10 PM

Dale,

As I think you know, I grew up listening to Randy Blake on WJJD. He was always trying to sell rose bushes ! "Send no money----C.O.D.!"
My mailman would've killed me if I had ordered TREES through the mail.

Art

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: GUEST,Dale
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 12:09 AM

Oh, yeah, ROSE bushes ~~ especially if you didn't cough up the money and he had to cart them BACK to the postoffice!

There was a song that went, "Send in your name and address, just a dollar ninety-eight. Just pay it to the postman at this very special rate." But that is all I remember of it.

I well remember when Randy played a song that he hadn't previewed before playing. Can't remember if he let it play all the way through or not, but when he came back on, he said something like, "WELL. we sure won't be playing THAT one again!!!" Think it had something to do with a honky tonk man.

I wasn't listening, but I heard that he cried that last night on the air before WJJD took it all away.

After being cancelled by WLS, the Barn Dance survived a while longer over on WGN, but soon faded into history.

Well, it is FUN to imagine all this, but as J. Golden Kimball is reported to have said, "There's not one chance in hell that it'll ever happen."

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: Greycap
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 03:02 AM

This is the one thread I really like - it defines what'll happen if I've been good and die with God looking after me. Anything involving Hank Snow does it for me - I had the honour of opening for him at the Liverpool Empire and the London Palladium many years ago.
Keep the suggestions coming.

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: GUEST,Mary
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 03:15 AM

I would put the Opry back to what it used to be .
Good ole' country music.
The Grand ole' Opry...seems to be taken over
by rock artists.
Though very , very talented...musicians and singers
there are so many artists who are full fledged rock
singers and then call themselves country.
Little Jimmie Dickens
Porter Wagonner
Jeanne Shepard
Alan Jackson..
and the fabulous George Jones
they are what we should see everynite
we watch the Grand Ole' Opry.

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: GUEST,Dale
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 03:53 AM

I DON'T believe this. Like I said, I am not hitting the submit button, it is happening automatically.

Let's see, where was I?

Oh, Mary, I hear you, but to be serious for a bit since you were, I just can't see how that would work. Virtually everyone you mentioned except for Jackson is old or fast getting that way, and some are beyond their prime, good though they were. What is needed is young people LIKE them who will carry on the tradition. Unfortunately, that sort is rare and getting even rarer.

I am not saying there is no place for them on the Opry, it is just that the Opry is not a museum, but a living thing, which should replenish itself ever so many years. Trotting out stars who are doing the same hit songs they did forty or more years ago is just not the answer.

I don't know the answer. I can think of a few young groups that COULD make a difference on the Opry, but I can't see management hiring them.    The powers that be are far too wrapped up in the ***STAR*** mentality.    While we are having fun making our wish lists, they are pretty much unrealistic ~~ especially mine!

I am pretty close to the situation at the Ozark Folk Center, and I am also aware of what is going on musically in several of the local schools, compared to what it was 20-30 years ago. The number of young people who can and WANT TO play this type of music is a number that diminishes year by year. I don't have figures in front of me, but I can guarantee you that the number of teen age or younger performers at the OFC is no more than half of what it was even 6 or 8 years ago.

Whether you are talking about the Opry or the OFC, or any number of other venues, the audience is growing old right along with the performers. At what point will the sort of music we are talking about cease to be a viable option?

Frank pretty much said it earlier One of the reasons the music business is in trouble today is that the executives are out of touch with what people really want. But they cling to their business model formulas. Going back to the honky-tonks of yesteryear isn't going to widen an audience for country music either. Hank is gone and can't be replaced. Same for Elvis. Country music may have to be redefined and bluegrass music is helping to do this.

It is getting way late, and I should get to bed. More later.

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: wordfella
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 07:01 AM

Funny thing--last week, Cumulus Broadcasting bought WSM from Gaylord, which is owned by CBS/Infinity/Viacom. (Or maybe they bought Gaylord--I'll have to check.) My son works for a Cumulus station group in Lexington, KY. I don't think he knows what the corporate plans are, but we can hope for something restorative.

CBS really boogered the whole operation--but what do you expect from an outfit that cancelled The Beverly Hillbillies, Green Acres, and Hee-Haw so they wouldn't be perceived as the "hick" network?

I'll check on the details and post again later.

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 12:58 PM

What was the name of that great show that was cancelled by the old Nashville Network, the live one done as if it was a club of sorts? Was it The American Music Pickin' Parlor...or something like that? Mark O'connor and Jerry Douglas and all were regulars. Mostly acoustic music. Their concept seemed to me like a perfect start for a modern Opry type of show. Drove me nuts when it was cancelled. T was a thousand times better than modern country music.

That'd be a good start for this good idea !

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 01:57 PM

article about radio from No Depression   Should be of interest to those who are enjoying this thread.

I found it while looking for GOOD info about American Music Shop, the program that Art is thinking of. (Had to work at it a bit myself before I came up with it) I found many mentions, but not the GOOD, yet.

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: GUEST,Mary
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 06:04 PM

Dale....I appreciate your response.
I must admit they are up there in age...
I have always love the old old traditional
hillbilly music.......and Ricky Skagg bluegrass
and sometimes forget that the world can't
revolve around only the music that I love .
Alan Jackson, some of Clint Black
and Goerge Strait..seems to be the closest thing
to hearing the good ole' twang that I have always
loved.
But....considering the question is
What if U owned ????
I probably wouldn't of made much money
with my decisions....but I would of loved
every minute of the music...versus now..
that I still watch the grand ole' Opry,
and the best evening in my opinion
are Ricky Skaggs Doyle Lawson Alan Jackson
and all the grand ladies and gent of the
grand ole Opry.

from Mary

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: wordfella
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 06:04 PM

The Cumulus/Gaylord details are here:
www.michaelprater.com/nashville.htm

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 03:58 PM

I would let Eddie Stubbs run the show.

He is one of the most knowledgable people in country music.

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 06:34 PM

Wow! What a great idea and a great thread. My first reaction is to join the movement and help revitalize the Opry. I well remember attending the Opry—still in the Ryman—and feeling so great when I realized the most applause all night was for Mother Maybelle Carter playing a solo—probably &ldlquo;Liberty”—on the autoharp. Of course the stage managers couldn't get her off fast enough. And even Mother Maybelle had to endure the guy with the snare drum standing behind her a little way.

The thing is, though, nearly all of the wonderful acts that played back then had originally joined the Opry on the strength of their commercial success. In its heyday, the Opry wasn't a rest home it was the vibrant center of a growth industry. Its format and success came directly from the avarice of greedy executives looking for a way to exploit the musicians and listeners for maximum ROI.

I agree that music industry executives are completely out of touch but, as others have suggested, I'm not sure there is a paying audience for the Opry we all remember so fondly. The festival idea might work but we'd probably need commercial sponsors. The Opry stars always worked for scale which, at the time I made the trek, was well under USD $30. The show was supported by sponsors who lined up because WSM is a clear channel station and WSM had the radio audience to make it pay off for advertisers. Musicians were expected to be there a certain minimum number of Saturday nights and make their money through record sales and personal appearances.

What sort of model might be self sustaining today?

      - Mark

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 07:24 PM

Mark,
You said "the Opry was the vibrant center of a growth industry--"

How 'bout this...

A retro-growth industry where the elderly are noticed as in Down From The Mountain. They are venerated and vindicated. Old folks like whoever is good that is still alive. Even folks like my friend John Hartford, who, sadly, are about to die. Nobody under 40 or 45. Emmylou and others with great looking gray hjair. Breaking even is all they shoot for. MAKING GOOD MUSIC AND BREAKING EVEN !!! THE GROWTH IS, more or less, IN TRYING TO INCREASE THE SIZE OF YOUR AUDIENCE, not your penis. We can send spam e-mails all over pointing that out. ;-)

I love it.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 01:03 AM

To think it would of been so nice for my kid to read this forum.
Why ruin it with the second to last sentence.

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 01:53 PM

I found a Web site by Ben O’Connor that tells me Ben is on the same page we are. Has anyone been to The Denver Barn Dance and can they give us a report?

Art, I think I stayed at the same run-down flophouse hotel you did. Dingy gray walls, single bare light bulb hanging from the middle of the room and toilet down the hall. Is that the place? I went with two friends and, as I remember, they charged us each $4.00. It was just a short ways up the hill on Broadway from the Ryman if memory serves.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: What if U owned WSM & Grand Ol' Opry?
From: fsharpdim7
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 01:55 PM

I think we are close to what you all want and the future is the Woodsongs webcast. It is now cheaper, at least in Chicago, to get a dsl line than having a second phone line for the pc. This will allow me to watch the Woodsongs webcast live. The next step, for me, will be to get a 20+gig mp3 player, so that I can watch webcasts on the train while I commute, or replay them on the tv.
I would hope that in the near future Mountain Stage, Prairie Home, River City Folk and other great radio shows will also be able to webcast.
This would mean a lot of Opry's all over the "dial."
Could I be right?
While I'm at it, be sure to watch what happens with the new movie, "A Mighty Wind." It is supposed to be a great comedy and the time may be right for it to start the next great "Folk Scare!"
Chris