Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?

Subject: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: GUEST,Washtub wannabe
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 12:48 AM

What kind of string should I use for my washtub bass? Your choice of tub? Length of broom handle?

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 05:05 AM

The traditional, and still one of the best choices for a broom-handle bass, is what's called "binder twine." This is a (usually) sisal twine, about 1/8 inch diameter, formerly used to tie hay or straw bales together. Still used in farm country as a general purpose (read cheap) twine, but the few people who make square bales now use wire for that.

If you want reasonable "acoustic" volume, you need a string that's relatively heavy (weight, not necessarily strength) so something like a light braided clothesline rope is usually more appropriate than "skinny string." You'd like it to be elastic enough that you can stretch it a little to change pitch, but the monofilament fish line sometimes used stretches a little too much for my taste - and doesn't necessarily return when you let off the pull. With a typical broom-handle rig, you can't really change the length much - you have to rely on just changing the tension to get pitch modulation.

Too heavy a string, or trying for too much "tuning range" risks pulling the bottom out of your tub. Been there, done that, bought the tacos and ate the tea shirt.

I'd recommend looking for a light, braided, cotton or nylon twine if you're planning on recreational (and musical) use for your tub. The string isn't really all that critical as long as it gets a sound that satisfies your needs.

If you want to get into the competition for loudest/biggest/fanciest etc., then you'd maybe want to look at things like weedwhacker line or aircraft cable and such. I use lawnmower "starter cord" on my "super double (two tub) bass" but it has a finger board, and the string is pulled to a tuned tension at about 80 to 100 lb. Not something you can do very easily with a broom handle.

John

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: greg stephens
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 08:01 AM

well, i'm in England and the instrument of choice here is the tea-chest bass. I understand you have to use washtubs in America because all the teachests got wet in Boston harbour. Anyway, I imagine the technolgy is much the same, washtub or tea-chest.
I've always found that the stuff sold for washing lines in ironmongers or similar householdy sort of shops does the trick. I've tried heavier sisal string and it didnt seem so good, though it looks hairier and more ethnic.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: cobber
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 08:10 AM

It was mostly tea chests when I had a go too. Wash tubs were most common in the old photos but they were really hard to find. I found a string in an old music shop's sale bin once. It was an old catgut double bass string. I know it was probably cheating but it sounded great.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: kendall
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 08:38 AM

I've never heard a washtub bass played with any accuracy at all. Many people try, but they are clueless. They are like Boron thumpers.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 12:13 PM

Well, now deceased Herb could play a damn melody on his; he used leather 'wang'.....like a super long bootlace.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 01:07 PM

here is Jim Bunch, known on Mudcat as Gutbucketeer...he might have some suggestions, but likely similar to what Mark has said...

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: kendall
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 01:19 PM

Maybe I'm just biased 'cause I prefer real instruments.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: kendall
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 01:24 PM

The first and only time I have heard the tea chest bass was in Jamaica. A trio called "Ken and the cane cutters" were performing at the hotel. I was very taken with them.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: GUEST,Paco Loco
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 01:34 PM

Washtub Jerry told me he uses a Porche clutch cable.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 01:50 PM

OUCH! Even with a glove on!

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 04:30 PM

I remember making a washtub bass more than 40 years ago. I used an actual double bass string, LaBella I think. It was a white colored wound string, nylon as I remember. I can't remember which string it was, probably A but I just don't remember. It worked great with good volume and tone production. The broom handle was just however long replacement broom handles are at the hardware store. I think you'll want to fasten the string so it goes over a notch in the top of the broomstick before heading down to the washtub. That way you can tension it using the broomstick alone or by sliding your noting hand down the broomstick to produce the higher tones.

I too have heard these played right in tune.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 04:38 PM

An old bloke in NZ many years ago made himself a one string kerosene tin fiddle and strung it with a bowden cable (from a bicycle).
I used to have a tea-chest bass with a broom handle but I forget what I strung it with - probably nylon chord, because that was available.
Robyn

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: RWilhelm
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 05:20 PM

My wife's been at it for ten years now and just wore out her first tub. She's also a standup bass player, so she began with a gut bass string, using the "fretting" method, sliding the hand up and down the stick. She now uses braided cotton twine, about 3/16" and changes notes by pulling the stick back and forth; I beleive that way is more common now. She has tried nylon twine but found it stretched too much. For volume, be sure to put a piece of two-by-four or something under the rim to let the sound out. If you can play on a hollow wooden porch, even better.

As for tonal accuracy, it's not concert quality but it sounds pretty good to me.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Jeep man
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 06:34 PM

What is the best way to attach the string to the tub? Jeep

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 07:00 PM

Eye bolt, with nut on the inside.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: GUEST,Washtube wannabe
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 07:13 PM

...way cool, folks! Thanks!

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 10:35 PM

I built a modified washtub base a couple of years ago that is much easier to play than the traditional one using a broom handle. The one I built has a lever to control the tension on the string. The plans from Dennis Havlena's webpage:

http://www.ehhs.cmich.edu/~dhavlena/bass.htm

Another one you may be interested is somewhat like a traditional base. It has 4 strings and has a washtub as the resinator:

http://www.ehhs.cmich.edu/~dhavlena/db.htm

The string Dennis recommends is made of dacron. Seems to work quite well.

Cap't Bob

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: johnross
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 10:59 PM

The No. 2 Wheeling Washtub is the Martin Guitar of washtub basses. There is a brand of washtub called "Martin," but it doesn't sound as good as a Wheeling.

And when you're not playing it, it's a great place to ice down the beer.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: greg stephens
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 01:14 AM

I've played with a three good teachest bass players and they all got notes well in tune with what was going on. Excellent solid support for the other instruments, both rhythmically and melodically.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: cobber
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 01:24 AM

We had a guy here in Australia who played in a country band with Dennis Reeves. He used to knock me out because he was so accurate with his playing and he didn't just play root notes. There were some pretty fancy runs in there. A good musician will shine through on anything and some people will be happy with close enough. It's all in how seriously you take it.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 02:42 PM

One of our sea music bandmembers plays a washtub base. We're always amused as Norris describes the process of washtub selection, walking into the hardware store, selecting a washtub, placing it over his head, and singing a few verses of "Blood-Red Roses" to access its tonal quality. You can imagine the excitment generated in the store! Apparently, not all washtubs sound alike and you may need to test 5 or 6 of them. Note, it is not necessary nor especially desirable to first fill the wahtub with water.

Norris generally places an inch thick book under one corner of the washtub when he is performing, and he can run a full scale of notes.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble
Roll & Go

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 03:03 PM

people play fiddles and fretless banjos accurately by just knowing where to place fingers...learning the 'right' tension on a well set up tub bass is just practice.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: s&r
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 06:52 PM

We always used window sash cord, from most ironmongers - didn't fray, wore well and sonded quite punchy.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: johnross
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 07:17 PM

Has anybody ever tried to bow a washtub bass string?

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 08:00 PM

Johnross-

Bowing sounds culturally excessive to me but I'll consult with Norris.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 06:22 AM

Bowing works quite nicely on my "supertub" double-tub-double-bass gutbucket, but it is a "fingerboard" arrangement. Response with a bow is probably about 3dB below what comes out of my standard standup bass.

Modulating string tension to get the pitch while bowing would be a little past just the "walking and chewing gum" level as a coordination exercise on more typical instruments.

You don't generally use nearly as much string tension on a gutbucket as on a "real" standup bass, so the response is a little "muted," even with my 80-120 pound string tension, compared to what you get from normal "string-whanging;" but it's certainly viable on mine if you don't need maximum volume.

On a typical broom handle bucket, you likely will not have sufficient string tension for the bow to get much action on the string. A longer, and heavier, string - at higher tension - would get you there; but you do run some risk of pulling the bottom out of the tub before you get to where it will work very well. Most typical buckets would probably need a cello or bass bow to "bear down" hard enough to get useful string response, all though you could possibly "proof the concept" with a fiddle bow.

I've seen one gutbucket that used a rather small monofilament fishline with a built in pickup and amp, that worked reasonably well with a fiddle bow; although it seemed it was so much work that the owner didn't resort to the bow except for a few "select" numbers.

John

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: fogie
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 12:13 PM

Seems to me that you've all overlooked the tuning capabilities of the MANGLE, which you could feed the string through and wind!

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 01:07 PM

Granted, there is a lot of weak, toneless tub-thumping out there, produced by players who approach the tub strictly as a percussion instrument and don't even try to play notes (or who don't have the ear to discern the difference). However, a *good* player can pick just about anything on a washtub that could be played on any acoustic bass. For proof, you might give a listen to the work of one Fritz Richmond, who recorded several Vanguard albums in the mid-60s as a member of the Jim Kweskin Jug Band. (Most if not all are available on CD.)

I developed a decent level of expertise myself back in the old days, using white woven natural-fiber rope about a quarter inch in diameter. We used to call it "clothesline rope," which is an even more obsolete term now than it was then, but the same product is also known as "sash cord," and was already recommended earlier in this thread.

A couple of years ago, I tried to rig myself up a new washtub bass and start playing again. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of buying yellow nylon "rope," a newer product that has become more readily available than the old-style white cotton rope. I got very frustrated at my inability to play any notes at all -- I was only able to produce the worst kind of toneless thumping that has always given the instrument a bad name.

So, I learned that decent gutbucket playing requires the right equipment (especially the string) as well as a reasoably skilled player.

For someone with the right kind of musical intuition, the washtub bass can be played nearly as easily as the kazoo, and the output can be just as musical and as complex as *any* bass figure you can imitate, improvise, or "hear" in any way in your mind's ear.

PS: It's not as easy as you might think to have your bass double as a beer cooler when not in service. Once you drill that hole in the bottom for the eyebolt, you can forget about holding water. Also, with the bolt and all installed, the tub won't sit flat on a floor or deck (although I suppose you could set the tub in sand, mud., etc., easily enough)

The alternative is to remove the bolt/string/stick assembly and duct-tape the hole shut, and then reinstall it when you're finished drinking and ready to play. Way too much trouble for me -- especially since you're likely to want to start playing before you're done drinking!

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 08:24 PM

I take it the hole is normally in the centre of the base, not near the sides?

Robin

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 08:32 PM

fogie -

Actually, I use an electric fence stretcher (tension ratchet) to get the string up to pitch on my fingerboard bass. You'd have to crank a mangle pretty fast to do good runs.

Several people have suggested filling my bottom tub with beer, and drinking it "down to pitch." I'm sure that eventually I'd reach a point where people might think it's sounding better; but I haven't tried it ... yet.

John

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 09:51 PM

Robin

At its simplest, the instrument is just a tub, bucket, trash can, or any other "container" turned upside down, with a hole in the middle of the bottom. Run a string through the hole, and tie a knot on the inside of the tub to keep it from pulling through. Fasten the other end of the string to a stick - typically a broom handle, and adjust the length of the string so that you can pull it tight by "swinging" the stick sideways.

For a more durable string connection, an eyebolt (#8 or #10 - .08 to .12 inch shank diameter) with washers and nuts on both sides of the tub surface will let you tie on so that you don't chafe the string. Use "fender washers" if available, and some add rubber fender washers to keep the bolt from rattling, and the hole won't leak if you want to cool the beer.

You want the string connected to the middle of the largest surface available, so that the motion induced moves as much air as possible.

You can put the bottom of the stick on the ground beside the "bucket," but most feel you get better action with the stick notched to sit on the rim. (You do get more "leverage" if the bottom of the stick is closer to the string attachment to the tub.) Put one foot on the rim to hold the tub down, haul back on the stick, and whack the string. Play with it until it sounds good - which can happen because you've figured out how to make music, or just because you've gotten used to the noise it makes.

One of the first "improvements" is to get rid of the inevitable "rattles." Take the handles off (or if you used granny's good tub, duct tape them securely and hope she doesn't notice the hole). You may find rivets or even seam gaps in an old tub that need a little "hammer adjustment," or a dab of solder, to tighten them up - but that's getting into "fussy mode."

Many will recommend putting a board under one edge of the tub "to let the sound out." Whether this helps or not depends on your individual tub, it's personality, and how you play it. (Some think a bigger amp makes their guitar sound prettier too. Judgment required.)

One of the main "acoustical faults" of the typical tub is that the concentric ribs in the tub bottom make it a little less than an ideal diaphragm. It's a little too flexible. As you advance in your playing you may want to put a heel on the surface, to stiffen it so that you can get a little more range in string tension. Later, you may want to add a "pressure plate" in the form of a small wood block so that your soggy shoe soles don't muffle the response.

The first generation progression is often to try to figure out a way to get "better control" of the string tension. ("Better control" usually means higher tension, but not always.) A variety of cranks, levers, wheels, and such appear in people's designs, usually in the form of something hung on the top of the stick. When this "mechanism" grows enough to get cumbersome, there's often a move to fasten the stick to the tub to make it easier to use the new "devices." Most such improvements tend to be something that suits an individual's perception of what fits his/her individual style, so one should be wary of accepting them as "generally suitable" for your personal instrument. Such modifications also move somewhat away from the joy of building and playing a simple "found" instrument.

The real test of your creativity comes when you take your gutbucket out in public to play. In any reasonably large group (at any festival), there will always be someone who will want to run and get his own bucket, and very nearly always will be determined to "prove" that his is better than yours. It's rather a mixed blessing that, unlike other "obnoxious" instruments like ... (can we leave off several common ones, and mention spoons maybe without offending) it's virually impossible for two gutbuckets to play together in the same group, if one of them is trying to "prove" something. If you're creative enough to avoid such encounters, it's a fun instrument - in appropriate circumstances.

John

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 07:38 AM

Very nicely done, John.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 10:49 AM

Thanks John

I've played one before - a tea-chest style many years before, but don't remember the details of construction well enough. Except that it had no bolt - just the string thru the hole. Always good to check with an expert...

I've got a couple of good quality tea-chests sitting in the garage at the moment, and enough other junk to put them together.

Robin

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: GUEST,terry
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 11:33 PM

I used to play the gutbucket about thirty years ago and have recently joined a new band (same banjo player). My problem is that the string (A gut string from an upright bass) is the same string I used back then. It's actually not in too bad a shape but I am trying to find another string to replace it. I would prefer the same type but have been unable to find a source that would sell me just one string and the price for a set isway to high. anybody out there who has any information please let me know. It would be lousy to get back on stage and have the string break.
                                             thanks

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Sorcha
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 12:19 AM

You might try Southwest Strings if you are in the US.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Sorcha
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 12:21 AM

Yup, they sell singles. Click on the Strings tab top, just to the right of center. Then click on a brand to see the offers.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 04:19 AM

Does strimmer line work? Seems to be the string of choice for the tromba marina.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Sorcha
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 08:54 AM

My friend Herb used a piece of whang....rawhide I think. Maybe just a LONG heavy bootlace type of leather. I think strimmer line would be too lightweight.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Gern
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 11:15 AM

Parachute cord works well for me.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 06:38 PM

Yeah, Bill recommended ya' check out Gutbucketeer, who plays in my band on occasion...

He uses a bicycle shifter cable...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Ned Ludd
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 06:54 PM

My Tea chest uses an old extending dog lead and a standard English broom handle. The string is tied with a knot through a washer at the tea chest end and just a notch at the top! I can get a full octave and am only out of tune when drunk!

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Rowan
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 01:25 AM

When I played teachest bass (more than 30 years ago) I used an old bow string I had left over from my archery days. It was one I'd made myself (for a 55lb recurve, using dacron) so the loops at the ends were properly served and all I had to do to attach it at the bottom end was use a wooden toggle inside the teachest and make sure it didn't chafe against the teachest's soundboard. It sounded fine but I couldn't be bothered with the hassle of trying to fit it into the Corolla so I gave it away and took up lagerphone (initially) and then concertina. My brother converted a teachest into a very upmarket-looking bass and used a string from a double bass; it sounded fine too.

Although I'd heard of washtub basses (as equivalents to teachest basses in style and context) they were mostly described by (and as associated with) North Americans; I've not seen any in Oz.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 01:31 AM

I suspect Rowan, that they were not as readily available in Australia (on the recycled market) - most people who had one without holes kept them, either as a useful item, or as a reminder of their ancestors. The rusted ones were scrapped.

I haven't seen them in hardware stores for ages - most little corner such stores died thanks to the huge Hardware barns.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Bert
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 01:34 AM

Come on Gutbucketeer, where are you? We need to learn from the best.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 01:08 PM

With the advent of Google since the start of this thread, it's possible to add some links...

Washtub bass (Wikipedia)

The Washtub Bass Page

Build a Yates Style Washtub Bass

Build a washtub bass from Tradition Music, Home of Barefoot Larry's Hillbilly Slap Strings and The Tradition String Band

Build a simple washtub bass, or Build a real, 4-string upright bass using an upright washtub

etc. (Google "washtub bass" search results)

(I was originally googling just to find washtubs...)

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 09:05 PM

I just noticed this thread. If you search you can find other threads with past recommendations. However, for the last year or so I've been using a $3.00 bicycle dérailleur cable. It works even better than a stand up bass string, costs a lot less, and lasts a lot longer. You can hear samples on my group, Snakehead Run's myspace page www.myspace.com/dennyandmarkblues (created before I joined and we had a name).

JAB

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: GUEST,Scott Leeper "world's best washtub bass pla
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 01:47 AM

Weedeater string is the only way to go. It does't hurt your fingers and is by far the best sounding {size .095} is best. Too short is ok but too long and you will get too much wavering sound. My bass is electrified and specialized so I can play at loud volumes. I play by pulling the stick back and forth - no fretting {fretting kills the ring of the string}
I proclaim myself the best living washtub player in the world because I have not heard anyone play one better. I would love to give up my throne to one greater. If you wish for proof then see me play at myspace.com/benmillerband and see our gig calender. Then you can come to a show.

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Megan L
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 04:43 AM

Kendall dear beuy perhaps ye should consider takin up permenant residence in this cellar ah keep hearin aboot theres a lightnin storm on the way :)

Subject: RE: Washtub Bass: What kind of string & why?
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 10:05 AM

Dear Scott Leeper,

Enjoy your delusion. The day you are in the same room with Jim Bunch, you will no longer be able to have sex or play the gut bucket. You will have witnessed the coming of the God of the Gutbucket. In fact, I would advise you to avoid him at all costs.

***chuckle***

Mick