Opinions please: Protest Singers

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 10:37 PM

Mick - I just have to correct you on one point - "airplay is non-existent".   There are a number of radio shows that DO play socially relevant songs and protest songs. There are some radio shows that ONLY play music of that sort. Speaking for myself, my program is a mix of styles but I do include music such as you describe, and I am not alone.    The difference between 2004 and 1964 is that "folk" music is not a hip trend that is embraced by a relatively large audience. In 1964 "folk" music could be heard on commercial radio stations, but it wasn't the protest variety that you describe.

If you look at the Folk-DJ list, you will see that today there are literally hundreds of shows airing across the country, and the majority of them DO play songs of a topical nature. It may be selfish of me to ask this, but why aren't more people listening?

My father-in-law was a program director for a local radio station during the early 60's. The station used to broadcast live concerts from Palisades Amusement Park, a venue that is sadly only a memory. One night the station had booked an artist whose name everyone here would know. (I will only say it wasn't Pete Seeger.) Before the broadcast the station management made it clear to the artist that the station would pull the plug if any controversial songs were performed. This artist grudingly complied.   

I only mention this story to illustrate the constraints that were placed on musicians during the 1960's.   We often forget just how restrictive radio was during this time. The songs that did get airplay were either sugar-coated imitations of folk music, or songs that were relatively "safe" choices - such as Peter, Paul & Mary's "Blowing In the Wind" (a song that had great social significance, but was not overt in its message as many protest songs were.)    What is amazing, and a testament to the strength of the "folk revival", is that the songs we all remember were passed on largely through concerts, magazines like Sing Out! and Broadside, and communal sharing of songs in hoots and the like.   THIS is what is missing in the year 2004. Yes, Sing Out! is alive and well, but the readership is not at the numbers it was in the 60's.   There are fewer venues that present this type of music, and the audiences SEEM to be dwindling (based on attendance at several clubs in the NYC/NJ area.) There are powerful songs being written, but fewer people are getting the opportunity to hear them.   Check out some of the names mentioned - Joe Jencks, John Flynn, Anne Feeney, Ani Difranco and others. They do reach younger ears, but as we know, the strength is in numbers.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: LadyJean
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 11:04 PM

We might mention the Dixie Chicks. Long may they sing.
I think Eminem did some kind of protest rap. I really really hate rap music, so I don't know.
Here in Pittsburgh, two bands Rusted Root and Anti Flag sing protest songs. They have a fair sized following.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: NicoleC
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 02:07 AM

A modern protest thread, and no one has mentioned Willie Nelson yet? Of course, his fan base runs too deep (and he's probably beyond caring about his popularity at this point), so he doesn't risk much with his 2nd protest song.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 06:47 AM

I was going to mention Willy and his protest song.
Good ideas here, and probably all valid. Clinton, you may be right, but I'd like to think otherwise.
Seems to me the thing that killed the Viet Nam war was TV coverage of the "body count". All those coffins coming home with the cream of our crop of young soldiers. That's why you don't see that today; George doesn't want you to. Doug, that's a fact, not my opinion.

We hAve become a nation of greedy, myopic consumers and as long as we have that republican attitude, "Pull up the ladder, I'M aboard." We will continue to be screwed by the robber barons.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Clean Supper
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 07:47 AM

I write and sing protest songs. A living example of the continuing existence of protest singers. I am currently putting my songs on a website but it´s not up yet and I´ve recorded some. The above-mentioned Solidarity Choir sings some of them too.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 10:09 AM

That thing about the draft is close to the truth. If George brings that back, the shit will hit the fan.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 10:59 AM

Well, Kendall said protest singers. Sure, rap probably incudes a lot of protest, but I don't really see most of us learning rap songs to share with others at pubs, song circles and gigs. I REALLY don't see Morse Code doing covers of Eminem.

I think a lot of people just don't like being preached at, and that's what many protest songs can sound like. I like Tom Paxton, but even he can get preachy at times. The best songs are ones that just tell stories or show pictures. They imply protest, they make the listener think and come up with their own conclusions - a risky thing.

In the 60's, most of us were younger. We listened to Dylan, Baez, PP&M, Paxton, Seeger ON THE RADIO, and it made some of us us want to sing. That style of music just isn't popular enough to get into the Top 40 these days. Mass media doesn't inspire would-be singers to go learn how to play guitar and sing a protest song. Rap IS hugely popular, and it's what a lot of people who are now at the same place in their lives we were in the 60s listen to. It's the style that inspires them.

It's a pop culture thing, and many of us prefer unpopular music. Small record labels, hole-in-the-wall venues and local performers mean it's pretty difficult to hear or just hear about protest singers of the day.

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 11:18 AM

To the names that Deb Cowan mentioned, let me add the following in no particular order:

Pat Humphries
Sandy Opatow
Holly Near
Alix Dobkin
Ruth Pelham
Bev Grant
Jamie Anderson
Charlie King
Karen Brandow
Luci Murphy
Joel Landy
Judy Gorman
Fred Stanton
Eliot Kenin
Si Kahn
Kim Harris
Reggie Harris
Larry Otway
Bob Blue
Paul Kaplan
Jon Fromer
Len Chandler
Patricia Shih
Collen Kattau
Utah Phillips
Rosalie Sorrels
Matt Jones
Sharon Abreu
Tom Neilson
Phil Hoose

and of course...

Pete Seeger
Peggy Seeger

I am certain other Mudcatters can add to the list!

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 01:21 PM

We have Janice! You've added some great ones. Most of the names mentioned have been of an older generation. Does anyone have any "under 30" musicians to add?

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 01:35 PM

(Jerry R Jan 2 3:14: one could say that blues says the same thing. *G*)

I think it's important to note that in our own communities people are writing and singing and recording protest songs. In Juneau, Alaska, a number of people are known for it- in addition to their other songs. I'm thinking specifically of Buddy Tabor and of Pat Henry. Songs like 'Mr.Basketball Shoes', and 'Get Stuffed'and lots more.

AlaskaMike, I know you're a prolific writer- do you do protest songs?

It would be interesting to read - and hear- the lyrics that Mudcatters are writing.

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 02:02 PM

I wrote one around the loss of real country music but what I had in mind was the political situation.
I repeat, rap is to music what etch-a-sketch is to art.

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: NicoleC
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 03:59 PM

I'm sure classical lovers say the same of folk. And country music lovers say the same of rock. And rock music lovers say the same of Top 40 pop. Music is not an entity with a precise definition that we can hold works up to for comparison and classification.

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 04:23 PM

"... come mothers and fathers
throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daugheters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin".

And they said Dylan's music would never stand the test of time. I guess he was writting about his own generation after all. The gift of foresight.

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 06:05 PM

Hey, Ed:

I don't like rap, but I don't want to knock it. But, the earliest rap was really street music about fighting for equal rights. There was a lot of stuff about police brutality, which rarely gets TV airplay. I have no doubt that there is still "protest" rap being written and recorded. I don't listen to the radio that much, so my exposure is the black video channels and MTV. Every time I flip by, I stop for a moment to see what's happening. Mostly rotating buts, crotch grabbing, breast jiggling and talk about getting a ripe young thang in bed. I wonder if Electric Avenue (not rap, I realize) were released today, if anyone would play it?

Maybe that's where the protests are still alive...

Reggae, Mon.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 07:10 PM

There are plenty of people writing and singing good songs about real things. Sometimes they are angry about things that could be changed, sometimes happy because the changes are coming, sometimes sad because they are the wrong changes.

A term like "protest songs" suggest that these are all the same type of songs, and implies that they are all about standing and shouting out in a temper, and that's not true, and never has been.

There are songs that belong on picket lines and rallies and marches, and they tend to come up when they are needed, and most of the time they are pretty simple and straightforward and to the point. Perhaps "protest songs" is a fair name for those kind of songs, and they can be worth their weight in gold.

But there's room for songs that don't belong there, and yet which aren't pap. And they keep on coming along all the time, even if they don't get played on the pop stations too much.

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 09:35 PM

Good point, Kevin. People may not think of older songs like Peg And Awl,Cotton Mill Collic or Penny's Farm as protest songs, but they certainly were. One thing you find in older protest songs is a sense of humor. Very dry humor, but I love it. They could probably get their point across better by making people laugh, even while their awareness was heightened. They could laugh at themselves, too. "Serves them people, suits 'em fine, for thinking that a mill was a darned gold mine."

Protest songs now are mostly serious, man. And angry. Subtle as a brick (don't you just hate generalities?) Real People's Music books some fine talent, focusing on their activism. They are agents for Sy Kahn and Peggy Seeger, among others. Both singers I enjoy greatly. I asked the owner of Real People's Music, tongue in cheek, how he knows whether people are real or not. If there's some simple test you can do to find out, I'd like to know it. I was wondering even if I was real. Or as Pogo would say, A Fig Newton of my own imagination.
Gee, maybe I'm a guest in my own life :-)

Jerry

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: freda underhill
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 09:43 PM

we have a fantastic young singer song writer in oz, paul spencer.

i even think he's>30.

he's off picking oranges in spain!

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: LadyJean
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 11:39 PM

I had an argument on Tuesday with a miss of perhaps 19, who was telling us all how wonderful China was because they had no social programs so everybody had to work or die. Those were her words not mine. The younger generation isn't what we were.

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: Hrothgar
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 03:30 AM

Maybe we aren't listening in the right places - of all the names Janice listed above, I've only heard of seven, and that includes the two Seegers.

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: Suffet
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 12:04 PM

Greetings:

I just heard Pat Humphries, Sandy Opatow, and Jon Fromer at the Peoples' Voice Cafe in New York City last night, and the place was packed to capacity. These are people who are out there, and they are being heard -- at union meetings, at conventions, at conferences, at political rallies, and at direct actions (such as the annual School of the Americas protest in Georgia), as well as in concert. But for the most part, they and the rest of the people on Janice's list, are being frozen out of the mass media. The commercial radio stations won't touch them with a 50-foot pole. TV talk shows, except for a few on public access cable, don't invite them. National Public Radio might give them some airplay -- they did a feature on one of Pat Humphries' songs two years ago, Swimming to the Other Side -- but for the most part they are afraid of offending their corporate and government sponsors. Even most college radio stations these days shy away from anything that could be construed as controvesial. Mudcatter Ron Olesko's WFDU is a notable exception. The Pacifica radio stations, such as WBAI here in New York, do have the guts to play contemporary topical-political songs, but they are only a handful.

Deb Cowan mentioned four names. Aside from Steve Earl, you may have some trouble finding them, but if you get a chance to hear Joe Jencks or Anne Feeney and Chris Chandler, then by all means do so. They are fantastic performers.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: kendall
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 01:08 PM

That miss of 19 has never gone to bed hungry while the fat cats say "Let them eat cake."

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 01:27 PM

There've always been people who think like that young lady. You have to keep an eye on them. It's the kind of fanaticism that can end up in orchestrating famines and settimg up death camps.

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 01:49 PM

We're all protest singers. We make sounds to protest the silence. Because we can.

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: Peter Woodruff
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 01:56 PM

I LOVE protest songs. When I retire I'm going to work for Walmart, not as a Walmart greeter, but a Walmart complaint department associate. That way I can get lots of raw material for protest songs about change we don't need!

Peter

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 03:38 PM

Two thoughts.

First, we seem to be short on UKprotest songwriters...

Second, the miss is not only a fascist pig but is also wrong. A material point of discussion in China today is the extent to which state banks recycle funds into loss-making enterprises precisely in order to provide a social program. It may (anathema to me) be a sort of workfare, but it is a support program for income and housing that would not be provided by western style capitalism.

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 05:31 PM


First, we seem to be short on UKprotest songwriters...


Just a thought - we didn't have commedy clubs back then. Is that where the "protest" talent has gone?

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: InOBU
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 05:41 PM

THANK YOU JANIS! And yes, Steve is right, we are frozen out of the mass media, if it weren't for Rick Fielding, WBAI, and a bunch of colege statations, I'd be pissing in the wind (the answer my friend is...) Beyond that, the search for protest singers under 30 often means at rally's there is age discrimination against us old bastards.
Cheers.
Larry

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 05:50 PM

"Never trust anybody over 30", Larry?

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 05:53 PM

Willy Nelson has a new song out protesting the war - when asked if it might upset some people he basically said "Stuff 'em"

Robin

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: johnfitz.com
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 06:08 PM

A part of the problem might be that much of the protest music of the sixties was galvanized around the anti-war movement. That movement was driven by the sheer power of emotion. Many of the songs had that raw power as their foundation. Protest songs are now written, to a large degree, by people who sing from an ideological point of view. There is an intellectual purity and predictability that doesn't always make for powerful songwriting. People will always be drawn to a good song. I like Billy Braggs stuff. It feels real to me. I'm sure we could all point to some great protest material, but, I agree with Kendall: there certainly is not any kid of dynamic movement happening in repsonse to the political climate.

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 06:22 PM

That's probably why Billy Brag was chosen to do the old Woody Guthrie stuff...

Robin

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: tar_heel
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 06:30 PM

if protedt singers depended on me to hang around and listen,they'd wait a long damn time...don't have time for such foolishness!

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 06:37 PM

Rage against the machine ? The ultimate in contemporary protest music. Though they approach issues through a rap/ rock medium, as opposed to the traditional folk music, their message is clear:

"believing all the lies that they're tellin ya,buying all the products that the're selling ya.cellular phones sellin a death tone. corporations cold, turn you to stone before you realize.no escape from the mass mind rape"...........
BULLET IN THE HEAD, RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 06:59 PM

Larry, I don't think anyone is descriminating against you "old bastards", but rather looking to see who will carry on the tradition. As I've said before, there are many young singer-songwriters who are doing the job.   Those who have said the youth of today aren't doing their share are wrong and not opening their eyes in my estimation. It may not come from a "folk" singer, but there is plenty of protest in today's youth culture.   Don't forget, our generation wasn't JUST listening to anti-war songs either. There was plenty of bubblegum music in our day too.

Johnfitz, you make a very good point about the role emotion plays in the music and how intellectual "purity" and predictability make for some lousy songs.   The protest songs that the general population remembers and responds to manage to get their message across in an almost subtle way. I've found that there are two basic types of protest songs - the "over your head with a hammer" approach which mainly works on protest lines and rallies to raise spirits. Away from that environment, those songs often fail to hold the same emotion. The more skillful songs, including many of Woody Guthries songs, were written with a different approach.   I find his "Talking Dust Bowl" to be one a great example of an effective approach. He uses humor and wit to get his point across and most importantly, he makes the audience think.   He doesn't have to list the injustices that were done to the Okies during the depression but he gets the point across. I still remember hearing that song when I was young, before I ever heard about the troubles of the times. He made me think.

Some of the artists mentioned, Joe Jencks and John Flynn come to mind, write in that same style. They can rally a spirit and teach us something.

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: Peter Woodruff
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 07:30 PM

I read all that dustbowl stuff, but wait, Woody was then, This Woody is now. We have the same problems with the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. Slimey Wall Street crooks, embezelment, cheating bad guys and gals. Makes me want to join a militia.

How 'bought you?

Peter

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 07:33 PM

There's no shortage of people writing good songs which say something about the world we live in, and the problems we share in living in it. Anywhere I go where people sing (leaving aside karaoke) I hear them.

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: Ed.
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 07:40 PM

You do go to (I assume) a select number of places though, McGrath?

Most young people today (in the Western world) have nothing to protest against. Life for them is pretty easy. They're not scared stiff that aguements between capitalism or communism and the resultant 'bomb' are about to destroy them...

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 08:03 PM

Unless I have some sort of head trauma I doubt I will ever join a militia.   

Again, it points to the beauty of Guthrie's work.   Those issues have been with us for eons.

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: Peter Woodruff
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 08:29 PM

That's right Ron!

Peter

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: pdq
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 09:54 PM

Thank you, GUEST of 6:37 for stepping outside the (Cat) box. Most of us do not listen to "urban" of any type. Most of us are not able to give a example of current protest material.

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: InOBU
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 10:21 PM

"Never trust anybody over 30", Larry? As a matter of fact, as a traditional musician, I didn't buy that when I was 16, or today. Pete Segar was an old guy well over 30 when he was being played by those of us who were also listening to Phil Oachs, when HE was under 30. Fact is, we have a funny sort of youth culture today, as well as a culture that allows the capitolist media choose who our spokespeople are. Steve Suffitt and Joel Landy can attest to the fact that at the last rally at which we were asked to sing, all the signed bands sang to the crowd, the sound system was turned off and then it was our turn. If Phil Oachs were alive and starting out today, I predict he would be unsigned and listened to by the likes of Steve, Joel, Janis and I, and played by Rick and WBAI... the protest music scene in the US is absoultly anemic, there is active ecconomic censorship of American music, as is witnessed by the number of stations banning music during this crime refered to as a war by the ciminals in office.
Cheers
Larry
PS I know today voices of annoyence are not in vogue, but ... well, so what.

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 11:51 PM

I have to disagree with you Larry about the protest music scene in the U.S. being absolutely anemic. You are right that there are a handful of stations playing "protest" music that you refer to, but I honestly think it has less to do with content and more to do with style. I have not been pressured as to the content of the material that I play on non-commercial radio.   The fact that folk music is not a commercial style effects the number of stations where it can be played.   Back in the days when it was in vogue, FM radio was still in it's infancy in terms of the number of people who were able to listen in. AM radio ruled the roost, and Phil Ochs was not getting his protest songs played on WABC-AM.

You are probably right in the fact that Phil Ochs would probably be unsigned today, but then again most of the artists we are discussing are unsigned. Major record labels are not signing "folk" artists. However, rap music artists DO get signed by major labels and they DO get played on the radio. Granted the majority of Mudcat crowd does not listen to this music (myself included), but to dismiss their "protest" and then continue to complain about the lack of protest seems like we are trying to make the results fit our preconceived notions.

When you say that the "capitolist" media chooses our spokespeople, I would ask when this was not the case.   It is less of the media choosing the spokespeople but rather a case of spokespeople knowing how to use the media. That may be the issue today, we don't know how to make our voices heard.

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: Kent Davis
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 12:50 AM

I am no fan of Country music, but if it's protest songs you want, you'll find plenty on the Country charts:
"The Last Fallen Hero" Charlie Daniels Band
"Uneasy Rider '88"       "       "      "
"America Will Survive" Hank Williams, Jr.
"American Soldier" Toby Keith
"Red, White, and Blue" Lynyrd Skynyrd
"The Great Defenders" Lee Greenwood
Of course, they aren't protesting what you want them to protest, but they ARE protesting.

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: GUEST,The
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 08:03 AM

Happy New Year to all our US "catters".
If you wish to hear the epitome of protest songs then you should get your very own Michael Moore and Ralph Nader to become song writers.
I doubt you could find a better catalogue of justifiable causes.

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: Barry Finn
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 10:12 AM

Nice Tread Kendall

There are protest singers/songwriters about but you aren't about to hear much from them. Mass media has condemed them to the scattered winds, the government buries the protester before the voice can be heard or gets to loud. The spin on what to fear is so hyped that only half a yr ago John Q Public would've lynched the protest singer. The 60's wasn't all about "trust no one over 30" it was more like "question authority" rather than today's "what's my priority".
The war & the civil rights movement had a galvanizing effect on the protest movement. It brought the Weathermen, the Black Panthers, the SDS, the Diggers, the young & old (my father marched baring his WWII Purple Heart & my sister & I walked beside him), the draft dodging org. in many cases the religious groups, it brought together the likes of Martin Luthher King, the Bergin Brothers, Abbey Hoffman, Huey Newton, Rap Brown, it crossed the color barrier, the generation gap, the Canadian border, musical styles, it crossed the country in buses & trains from the White House Plaza to Selma, Alabama, to East LA. The protests were of a size that couldn't be ignored & the riots couldn't be contained by the government. At all these places the speaker & the singer rallied around the different causes. Today there's no orginazition

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: Barry Finn
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 11:21 AM

sorry hit the submit button insteaad of correcting my spelling of Today there's no 'organization' that has brought together the leadership of the groups trying to make a difference. The scope of what's gone sour in this country IMHO dwarfs the 60's so much it's an aaalmost impossible job. We don't know what we're eating & if it's healthy or not unless you grow it or you raise it. Globle warming is a greater threat than most want to know about, mass extinction gets not even a single note, the ongoing killing of the land, sea & skies is looked at as the the price we have to pay for profitt. The Secrets of our shadow government, it's tight grip on the media, it's use of fear to erode our rights, the violations of human & civil rights, it's arrogant disregard for the UN, other governments, the invasion of nations under the pretext of fear & protection & the seemingly conquest for world domination seems to make singing & writing protest songs a task that's has no starting or ending point, a daunting but not impossible job. Until we can join hands together in protest (divide & conquer) & John Q Public starts to question authority instead of swallowing the spoonfed shit he's been eating for yrs now, until we find our leadership instead of our followship we will have no effective voice in music or in protest even if the singer is singing the sound will be muffled before it gets heard. Quite cynical, yes. Are we as bad off as it's looks, worst? Are we gonna try to change things for the better, maybe? Are we waiting for the country to right it's own wrongs, probably? Will we be satisfied with using only our vote as our only means of making change, I hope not? When the songs & the protesters voices get to be heard in strength above the battle maybe then we can co-exist with the world we live in. Since the 60's we've somehow managed to lose all that we had gained & more. We've lost the wars against crime, drugs, health care, education, poverty, homelessness, discrimination of all kinds, unemployment & we've lost our collective voices.

Barry

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: GUEST,The Benn Agency
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 11:29 AM

Barry,
      I repeat. Log on to Michael Moore. He has detailed in no uncertain terms much of what you are concerned about and proposes some solutions

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 11:54 AM

You know it just occurred to me: Whether the kids are properly focused on "the correct" issues is perhaps none of our business. Whether they "get" it is much less important than whether we have sold out or failed on the issues enumerated by Barry, above, or whatever else we personally deem important. The kids' business (now that they're of contracting age and setting the tone in media and elswhere) is theirs, as is their music (which we're not supposed to get). Our business stays the same: building a world for them to do their business in, and it looks like we are messing up in the US at least, with wealth disparity being what it is and trending as it is.

durrned kids

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 12:06 PM

Neil Young, by the way, has an entire tour going strong and just extended based entirely on protesting the war. It is themed on a young girl coming of age, with us old folks encouraging her onwards in the save-the-trees vein, while accepting their lack of control on those choices.

I guess we can't really get too angry at the young'ns for failing to appreciate what we're sending their way.

Subject: RE: Opinions please: Protest Singers
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 02:09 AM

hmmm - protest songs never made a difference Clinton? I beg to differ! The U.S. no longer drafts young men. Birth control is now widespread and abortion is available. Women have careers.
single mothers are not sinners. Segregation is against the law. Not bad for one generation!

Perhaps the messages have changed. Maybe we need songs for the environment. Maybe we need music for veiled women. Maybe we need a voice to cry for starving children, aids victims and endangered animals.

As a Canadian (born in the U.S.A) I am amazed that you give Bush so much power. Fingerprinting the innocent? Racial profiling? Please grab a brain! I thought my family participated in three generations of war so that you could be free! That means personal freedom and privacy too! "You don't know what you've got til its gone"

At least the rappers express their anger and hostility thats been born of a culture of opposition. Whats left of the U.S. is appalling. You have to have a critical consciousness to be able to protest. Unfortunately, the uneducated masses are only too happy to buy the biscuit and content themselves with a commercial world.

Maybe if we all take a week off work and do nothing but sing and dance, the politicians will get the message. They have no power but that which we give them. Maybe its time to take it back.