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Music is 'The Word'?
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: GUEST,Martin Gibson Date: 08 Jan 04 - 04:15 PM Two Bears Sounds like you've been enjoying the Maui Wowie. Cough. Cough. |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: *daylia* Date: 08 Jan 04 - 04:28 PM Martin, just so you know, Two Bears is one of the few people I've ever met who has no interest in using recreational drugs. Nor has he ever used them. daylia |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: GUEST,Martoons Date: 08 Jan 04 - 04:40 PM Beware- flippant thread reply ahead!! Everyone must try and remember that If Music is Love and G-d is Love then Music is G-d; or If Music is Love and Love is a Many Splendored Thing then Music is a Many Splendored Thing; or If Music is Love and 'Love is never having to say you're sorry' then; Music is Never having to say you're sorry. I love this stuff!! Buster |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: Amos Date: 08 Jan 04 - 04:41 PM Martin: I think you're taking the easy way out of an uncomfortable spot, and the inaccurate way; Two BEars' observations are for th emost part perfectly intelligible, in accordance with many case histories, match a lot of my own experience and are certainly within the bounds of many schools of spirituality. A |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: GUEST,Martin Gibson Date: 08 Jan 04 - 04:42 PM Glad to know he's so naturally high. As they say, space is the place. Very groovy and far out. |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: Two_bears Date: 08 Jan 04 - 07:36 PM > Two Bears my friend, thank you for your input here! You know I have > the greatest respect (and gratitude!) for the amazing and > powerfully effective spiritual teachings/technology I've been > learning through you over the last few months. Aloha nui loa Daylia; my sister. It's my pleasure. > At the same time, big warning bells went off when I read ...and > that abundance of lifeforce energy can be photograpged by kirlian > photography. You can go online and see the difference in the field around a Reiki master's or Qigong masters hands when they are at rest and channeling the energy. The field is about 3 or 4 times as wide, and with a lot more colors like pink, blue or green showing up in the field around the hands or fingers. There are kirlian photos of a Reiki Masters hands on page 20 or so of the book "Empowerment Through Reiki" by Paula Horan. > I know what you've said about life-force energy and healing is > true, but that's only because I bit the bullet, tried it myself and > watched it work many, many times over. I've got the healed slipped > disc in my back to prove it! But it certainly would have sounded > like just so much airy-fairy hogwash to me a few years ago, and > that's most likely how it sounds to the majority of the good people > here at Mudcat. When I became a Reiki master in the late 1990s; a friend told me "Go to Huna because that is where the real healing is." I did some research into HUNA, and told my friend "Not only no but hell no." Simply as a test; I put HUNA to work, and I started observing real miracles happen occasionaly. > I don't think that methods like Kirlian photography meet the > rigorous -- and absolutely necessary -- standards of the scientific > community. Yet. If they did, highly intelligent well-versed and > good-hearted people like Bill would not be scoffing at the notion Some people are sincere skeptics, and that is great! In 1973 when I was being trained in three forms of Qigong; I was skeptical to the max, and I thought Tsang was the largest crackpot ever to walk the earth. At the time; my western trained mind could not accept the notion of the energy he called ch'i. That was until I saw him do things that were supposed to be humanly impossible > I just hope I'll still be around if and when the earthly sciences > finally come "into harmony" with the mystical, spiritual > or "esoteric" wisdom that's been around for thousands and thousands > of years I think you will see science and metaphysics get a lot closer together in a few years. |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: GUEST,Martin Gibson Date: 08 Jan 04 - 07:48 PM Thank you, Grasshopper. |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: Two_bears Date: 08 Jan 04 - 07:49 PM > Two Bears Aloha nui loa Martin; my brother. > Sounds like you've been enjoying the Maui Wowie. If that is you honest oppinion; then so be it. The fact that you find the mystical difficult to believe is honest skepticism. 30 years ago if Tsang (my Qigong master) had told me "You will lay hands and heal people of severe health problems in minutes"; I would have laughed in his face, and asked where I could buy some of what he had been smoking. 30 years ago; I was exactly like you. If it can't be seen and measured scientificaly; it didn't exist. What changed my mind was that 24 years ago; I was diagnosed with a terminal disease. I went from riding motorcycles to riding a wheelchair. I was given 6-12 months to live, and in 8 weeks by directing universal lifeforce energy into my weakened muscles; I walked away from the wheelchair. That is NOT supposed to happen! |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: GUEST,Martin Gibson Date: 08 Jan 04 - 07:58 PM Well, I'll be dipped in shit! Did you ever consider whoever did the diagnosis was wrong? |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: Two_bears Date: 08 Jan 04 - 08:00 PM > Martin, just so you know, Two Bears is one of the few people I've > ever met who has no interest in using recreational drugs. Nor has > he ever used them. Halucinogens are NOT necessary. The brain creates small amounts of DMT (Di-Methyl Tryptamine) if memory seves, and uses that halucinogen during REM sleep and visionary experiences. I agree with the statement of wicasa wakan (holy man) Frank Foolscrow when someone asked if he used Peyote. He said and I quote "I don't need drugs. Wakan Tanka (Lakota name for the Great Spirit) can take me higher than any drug." |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: Two_bears Date: 08 Jan 04 - 08:06 PM > I think you're taking the easy way out of an uncomfortable spot, > and the inaccurate way; Two BEars' observations are for th emost > part perfectly intelligible, in accordance with many case > histories, match a lot of my own experience and are certainly > within the bounds of many schools of spirituality. Aloha nui loa Amos; my brother. Thank you for the kind words. Amos; it's a shame that most of the people on this planet have no idea of the true potential of the human mind and body. |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: Two_bears Date: 08 Jan 04 - 08:18 PM > Well, I'll be dipped in shit! If that is your choice. ;-) Aloha nui loa Martin; my brother. > Did you ever consider whoever did the diagnosis was wrong? No; for two reasons. 1. I saw the scans (taken before and after I started energy healing) myself. 2. I went from riding motorcycles to being so weak that I could not raise the motorcycle from the kick stand, then later; I was too weak ro walk, and I had to ride in a wheelchair. Tsang had been insistent that ch'i could be used to heal the body, and I had absolutely nothing to lose to add alternative healing to the allopathic medications I was taking. I became convinced that energy healing is real when I walked away from the wheelchair, then I knew energy healing was real when I saw the second test without a trace of the disease. |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: *daylia* Date: 09 Jan 04 - 08:43 AM Your personal case history is incredible, Two Bears. I vouch for it's authenticity, and I know you have at least a couple dozen more too. Nice try with Martin! Somehow I doubt that he checks in here to "broaden his horizons" and "expand his knowledge" though ... Anyway, just in case this thread is on it's last legs, I wanted the last "Word" to be a Musical One -- in Western philosophical/mystical tradition, so people will know the ideas presented in my first post are not restricted to Eastern swamis. So here's a little quote from Aristotle; "[the Pythagoreans] saw that the ... ratios of musical scales were expressible in numbers [and that] .. all things seemed to be modeled on numbers, and numbers seemed to be the first things in the whole of nature, they supposed the elements of number to be the elements of all things, and the whole heaven to be a musical scale and a number." And a couple from Kepler, who ... 20 centuries later, wrote in his Harmonice Munde (1619) says that he wishes "to erect the magnificent edifice of the harmonic system of the musical scale . . . as God, the Creator Himself, has expressed it in harmonizing the heavenly motions." And later, "I grant you that no sounds are given forth, but I affirm . . . that the movements of the planets are modulated according to harmonic proportions." I found them here (this article will awaken the mathematician in us all! ;-) -- Pythagoras and the Music of the Spheres Yours Lovingly, metaphysically, philosophically and Musically, daylia |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: GUEST,Aristotle Date: 09 Jan 04 - 08:48 AM I thought Greece was the word? |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: GUEST,Aphrodite Date: 09 Jan 04 - 10:13 AM Nah .... Greece is John Travolta's hair, my son. |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: Two_bears Date: 09 Jan 04 - 10:29 AM Anyway, just in case this thread is on it's last legs, I wanted the last "Word" to be a Musical One -- in Western philosophical/mystical tradition, so people will know the ideas presented in my first post are not restricted to Eastern swamis. So here's a little quote from Aristotle; ----- I will get it back on music. I love to play the Native American flute. I like to liten to almost all forms of music. The only exceptions are old country music and Rap. My musical livrary varies from classical to pop, to heavy metal. |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: GUEST Date: 09 Jan 04 - 02:39 PM Two Bears, do you ever use your music in your healing work? |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: Two_bears Date: 09 Jan 04 - 07:24 PM Two Bears, do you ever use your music in your healing work? ----- Yes and no. I memorize songs for the flute so I can play songs without the music. This strengthens my mental focus; so I can direct more mana, mana mana, or mana loa for healing. Another mental exercize I do is count backward from 500 to 0 by 3s. Several people have reported my flute playing elevates their mood. |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: dianavan Date: 10 Jan 04 - 03:18 AM I'm not sure if music is the word but I am sure (based on my own experience) that music gives rise to the spirit. For all you doubter out there (this coming from an unbaptised heathen with no religious connections) let me tell you a little of a childhood experience that left me with no doubt of something greater that myself . I was on a beach where the tide was so low that you could see the skeletal masts of schooners that tried to find the N.W. passage. A place where the great Columbia River meets the powerful Pacific. I was about eight years old. I could look north and south and west and see no human movement or signs of civilization (except the masts). Great flocks of little birds gathered at the 26 miles of tideline. I was standing there watching the tide suck the sand from between my toes when I heard a sound swelling from the sea. I looked up and saw the rays of the sun bursting through the clouds and the sound grew louder. Soon I was encompassed by the sound of one great choir, singing one single note. It was perfect! I hope this answers some questions. For me it was observable but not a word was spoken. I thought the word (language) was, in fact, the fruit that was plucked from the tree by Eve. The ability to discriminate. The ability to know one from the other. |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: AllisonA(Animaterra) Date: 10 Jan 04 - 06:06 AM Dianavan what a wonderful experience! Thank you for sharing it. I can only speak the truth that I feel. Making music is a spiritual experience for me. When I sing with others (or recently, play the concertina alone or with others) I am lifted out of myself and held in a place where there's just music. Whether I'm alone or with others, the music is what is being served, and part of that is the community of those who make music, whether they're physically in the room with me or not. I've had experiences I would describe as "mystical" outside of music, but they seem no more valid or real than when I'm singing or playing. Allison |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: *daylia* Date: 10 Jan 04 - 10:49 AM dianavan, what a beautiful experience! Your story points out so well the awesome and mystical power of Music, of Sound, that mysterious "divine connection" between Music and Nature, where both are One. And the difference between what is "religious" and what is "spiritual". Thank you so much! I've had experiences like that only in dreams, where Nature is often so breathtakingly splendourous, and the beauty and perfection of the music I sometimes find myself creating makes anything I could produce here in physical reality sound like some kindergarten band ... (so how come I get to be so "perfect" only in my dreams huh? HUH???) Making music is a spiritual experience for me. When I sing with others (or recently, play the concertina alone or with others) I am lifted out of myself and held in a place where there's just music. Whether I'm alone or with others, the music is what is being served ... Allison, thank you for this too. When I am playing music, completely focused on the sounds and feelings I'm producing, it seems to carry me away from physical time and space into some other state of awareness where nothing exists except the music, the imaginations and emotions it inspires. I lose track of time, forget my surroundings, and sometimes when I'm finished I realize I've been so completely "lost in the moment" that I honestly cannot remember a single note I've played! That can be almost scary, sometimes ... One way I've found to musically "bridge the gap" between what is physical and what is spiritual is to take a song that was written about a physical romantic type of love (and there certainly are a plethora of those!), and sing it with all my heart -- but sing it to "God", to the "Goddess", to Jesus, to my "Higher Power", to my "Guardian Angel", to Creator ... whatever my understanding is of that awesome Creative Power that is greater than myself, at the time. Here's a song I used this way just a few minutes ago .... (with no-one else around but my cat!) FEELS LIKE HOME Somethin' in Your Eyes, makes me wanna lose myself Makes me wanna lose myself, in your Arms There's somethin' in Your Voice, makes my heart beat fast Hope this feeling lasts, the rest of my life If You knew how lonely my life has been And how long I've been so alone And if You knew how I wanted Someone to come along And change my life the way You've done It feels like home to me, it feels like home to me It feels like I'm all the way back where I come from It feels like home to me, it feels like home to me It feels like I'm all the way back where I belong A window breaks, down a long, dark street And a siren wails in the night But I'm alright, 'cause I have You here with me And I can almost see, through the dark there is Light Well, if You knew how much this moment means to me And how long I've waited for Your Touch And if You knew how happy You are making me I never thought that I'd love Anyone so much It feels like home to me, it feels like home to me It feels like I'm all the way the back where I come from It feels like home to me, it feels like home to me It feels like I'm all the way back where I belong It feels like I'm all the way back where I belong Words & Music: Randy Newman |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: Peace Date: 10 Jan 04 - 08:33 PM People who don't find aspects of spirituality in music and song are missing one of life's finer pleasures. Songs can touch the mind, heart, soul and memory. All ya gotta do is listen. |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: Two_bears Date: 12 Jan 04 - 06:42 AM Linn (Bat Goddess) -- I couldn't agree more, that people need to sing, preferably publicly and especially in groups, for basic spiritual sustenance. I sure do, anyway. ----- Hello poppa gator: I am glad that you find spiritual sustenance through singing. For me; it is playing my native American flute morning and evenings. I can think of nothing more spiritual than turning the breath of life (a gift from the Great Creator) to play spiritual music to honor the Great Spirit. I also get spiritual sustenance by giving thanks for and blessing the food I eat. |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: Two_bears Date: 12 Jan 04 - 06:43 AM I'm not sure if music is the word but I am sure (based on my own experience) that music gives rise to the spirit. ----- I agree completely; and I am a devout pagan. |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: *daylia* Date: 12 Jan 04 - 11:33 AM Well, I feel "nurtured" just reading this thread! And inspired by other people's experiences of the sacred power of music in their lives. It's nice to know I'm not the only one who feels this way about music (I know I must have my biases, being a musician and music teacher myself). So thank you very much, brucie and Two Bears et al ... For me; it is playing my native American flute morning and evenings. I can think of nothing more spiritual than turning the breath of life (a gift from the Great Creator) to play spiritual music to honor the Great Spirit. I studied spirituality with an organization called Eckankar for a number of years. According to their (Eastern-based) traditions, it's no wonder both you and your audiences feel uplifted by your flute playing, Two Bears! Eckists teach that the single note of a flute is the Sound heard on the "Soul Planes" of awareness! (For Eckists, Spirit manifests in two ways on the levels of existence "below" the realms of pure Spirit -- through Light and Sound. So, each "level" -- or plane -- of awareness (ie physical, emotional, mental, soulful, spiritual) -- has it's identifying color and Sound). And they teach that the Sound of the planes beyond the Soul levels (those of pure Spirit) is that of a thousand Violins! In any case, it seems that playing and listening to flute music sure "takes me there!" Even more so than piano, or guitar -- and I do love both of those! BTW thank you for the flute tabulatures you gave me the other day -- I've been practicing "Grandfather" and "The Warrior's Return". Almost got 'em memorized now ... I'll give you a "phone concert" soon (you've been duly warned!) :-) I also get spiritual sustenance by giving thanks for and blessing the food I eat. Well, I've noticed that when I use your method of giving thanks to Creator and then blessing my food with life-force energy (or ch'i), it even TASTES better. Whether it's the power of my own mind or the power of the energy I raise, I sure like the effects -- and so does my body! So Mahalo nui loa my friend ... (that's Hawaiian for thank you very much) daylia |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: Two_bears Date: 12 Jan 04 - 02:08 PM Well, I feel "nurtured" just reading this thread! And inspired by other people's experiences of the sacred power of music in their lives. It's nice to know I'm not the only one who feels this way ----- I'm glad you started the thread. ----- I studied spirituality with an organization called Eckankar for a number of years. According to their (Eastern-based) traditions, it's ----- If I member correctly; (Eckankar) Eck was brought to the U.S. by Paul Twitchell, and his mentor was Rebezar Tarqs. I studied a little Eck; but was never a member of the organization. ----- no wonder both you and your audiences feel uplifted by your flute playing, Two Bears! Eckists teach that the single note of a flute is ----- I do not usually play in front of audiences. There are only three reasons I play my flute. 1. Spiritual reasons 2. Increase my mental concentration. 3. Because I enjoy playing the flute. ----- In any case, it seems that playing and listening to flute music sure "takes me there!" Even more so than piano, or guitar -- and I do love both of those! ----- I agree completely! ----- BTW thank you for the flute tabulatures you gave me the other day -- ------ Don't thank me. I didn't invent that form of tabulature for the flute. Richard Hawkey (the inventor of that system taught me that method. ----- I've been practicing "Grandfather" and "The Warrior's Return". Almost got 'em memorized now ... I'll give you a "phone concert" soon (you've been duly warned!) :-) ----- Great! Glad to hear that. Take the assorted scales (for flutes in assorted keys) in the back of the manual that came with your flute, then transport sheet music into tabulature so you will have so you can play a wider range of music to play on your flute. Some are offended by playing Amazing Gracem Greensleeves, Auld Lang Syne, etc on the native American flute; but the flute has such a great way to elevate one's mood; that I don't care what those traditionalists think. ;-) ----- Well, I've noticed that when I use your method of giving thanks to Creator and then blessing my food with life-force energy (or ch'i), it even TASTES better. Whether it's the power of my own mind or the power of the energy I raise, I sure like the effects -- and so does my body! ----- Glad to hear the confirmation. FYI; Universal lifeforce energy has been called MANY names. Akasha, ch'i or Qi, Itaki, Ki, mana, Manitou, Nuwati. Orenda, Orgone, Prana, Ruach. etc. ----- So Mahalo nui loa my friend ... (that's Hawaiian for thank you very much) ----- You are certainly welcome. |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: Cluin Date: 12 Jan 04 - 03:30 PM Not my story, daylia. It's Lewis Carroll's (part of "Through the Looking Glass"). But I like it too. ;) |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: *daylia* Date: 13 Jan 04 - 10:48 AM Aw Cluin --- It's been too many decades since Carroll's made it off the bookshelf onto the nightstand, I guess. Thanks for clearing that up! daylia |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: Cluin Date: 15 Jan 04 - 06:03 PM "A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart and can sing it back to you when you have forgotten the words." * unknown glurgist |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: *daylia* Date: 16 Jan 04 - 08:21 AM Cluin, that's beautiful - thank you! Hey, I think I've had a real "Friend" or two after all, then ... Here's a bit of musically inspiritational prose from Fritz Kreisler. I've been blessed with experiences like the one he describes a few times -- when this mysterious change happens in the midst of playing a well-known and loved piece (on a well-mastered instrument, so technique etc is not a distraction). Rather than me playing the music, it feels like the Music somehow starts "playing me", and the sounds coming through my hands seem to swell up with new depth and meaning and majesty; COMMUNION Some of the loftiest aspirations of the human soul are reserved to those who have the great gift of musical expression, for they thereby lift themselves out of a material world and enter a spiritual one ... Whether I play in public in the midst of thousands or in the privacy of my own room, I forget everything except my music ... I am lifted out of the material world and come in touch with another, a holier world - as if some Hand other than mine were directing the bow over the strings. |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: GUEST,Martin Gibson Date: 16 Jan 04 - 02:20 PM A lot of deletions/censorship was done on this post. |
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Subject: RE: Music is 'The Word'? From: GUEST,Martin Gibson Date: 16 Jan 04 - 02:23 PM I rescind my previous post with apologies. |
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