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Clancy Bros. and such: Curiosity

Related threads:
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Rapparee 17 Jan 04 - 08:55 AM
GUEST,Maurice Mann 17 Jan 04 - 09:03 AM
Leadfingers 17 Jan 04 - 12:36 PM
GUEST,Bernie 17 Jan 04 - 01:03 PM
Mickey191 17 Jan 04 - 01:12 PM
ard mhacha 17 Jan 04 - 02:41 PM
Blackcatter 17 Jan 04 - 04:43 PM
Folkiedave 17 Jan 04 - 04:54 PM
Joybell 17 Jan 04 - 05:57 PM
GUEST,Frank Hamilton 17 Jan 04 - 07:50 PM
GUEST,Sean Mc Cormack. 17 Jan 04 - 08:09 PM
Joybell 17 Jan 04 - 08:18 PM
JJ 18 Jan 04 - 08:09 AM
Bo Vandenberg 18 Jan 04 - 07:02 PM
curmudgeon 18 Jan 04 - 08:43 PM
Blackcatter 18 Jan 04 - 10:53 PM
Jimmy C 18 Jan 04 - 11:42 PM
Blackcatter 19 Jan 04 - 12:36 AM
JJ 19 Jan 04 - 08:49 AM
Blackcatter 19 Jan 04 - 11:03 AM
GUEST,guest mick 19 Jan 04 - 11:19 AM
ard mhacha 19 Jan 04 - 04:23 PM
PoppaGator 19 Jan 04 - 05:01 PM
Blackcatter 20 Jan 04 - 01:25 AM
paddymac 20 Jan 04 - 02:29 AM
greg stephens 20 Jan 04 - 04:44 AM
ard mhacha 20 Jan 04 - 07:54 AM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 20 Jan 04 - 08:32 AM
Rapparee 20 Jan 04 - 08:47 AM
GUEST,Lighter 20 Jan 04 - 04:18 PM
Nerd 20 Jan 04 - 04:52 PM
Blackcatter 20 Jan 04 - 06:34 PM
Nerd 21 Jan 04 - 01:54 AM
Bob Bolton 21 Jan 04 - 04:37 AM
JJ 21 Jan 04 - 08:03 AM
GUEST,Lighter 21 Jan 04 - 10:14 AM
Blackcatter 21 Jan 04 - 10:54 AM
ard mhacha 21 Jan 04 - 01:26 PM
Folkiedave 21 Jan 04 - 05:51 PM
Rapparee 21 Jan 04 - 06:04 PM
Blackcatter 21 Jan 04 - 06:18 PM
curmudgeon 21 Jan 04 - 06:34 PM
Blackcatter 22 Jan 04 - 01:17 AM
Gurney 22 Jan 04 - 01:54 AM
GUEST,guest tom 22 Jan 04 - 08:21 AM
GUEST,weerover 22 Jan 04 - 12:00 PM
Jim McLean 22 Jan 04 - 12:38 PM
Bob Bolton 22 Jan 04 - 04:17 PM
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Bob Bolton 22 Jan 04 - 11:48 PM
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Subject: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 08:55 AM

My introduction to Irish music, and that of many others, was via the Clancy Brothers. Their music was energetic, the singing was good, the playing was okay. Granted that they edited the songs, but it seems to have been for better "sing-ability."

Other groups have done the same sort of thing.

And yet, the Clancys (and some of the others) are maligned.

Why?

I'm curious.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: GUEST,Maurice Mann
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 09:03 AM

Like everything else, it's just fashion. Same way as in singarounds you hear the same song over and over then suddenly it disappears for a few years. That and the price of Aran sweaters nowadays!

Maurice


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Leadfingers
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 12:36 PM

Any body who has any thing to do with popularising anything is liable to suffer the same fate from the self appointed experts, who are only too happy that lots of punters get involved in 'their' thing, but are not in the least prepared to go out looking for converts themselves.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: GUEST,Bernie
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 01:03 PM

Only my two cents worth,but any dumping on the Clancy's that has occured,I feel is simply because they were TOO succesful as a world-renowned professional act,made a pile of money,and for a few years became a kind of "folk industry",for want of a better term.
They introduced a whole generation of us here in North America and home in Ireland to the songs/history of our homeland;never overly self-righteous,often with great good humor...all,I think,had some theatrical background,that,along with the "sweaters" was used to good effect to sell the music ..I see not too much wrong with that...most importantly,all four were strong,magnificient singers,articulate spokesmen on stage,and had more energy,drive and balls than any other such act I've ever seen[and I think I've seen most of them]....as the group evolved,I felt that the lineups with Lou Killen,then Bobby and Robbie O'Connell' was not quite as dynamic[no offence to those three fine singers]...but,by then,maybe the songs HAD become a little too familiar.....I still thrill to their performance of "Legion of the rear guard"with the whole song being driven just by Liam's great,driving,rythym on a Nylon-stringed guitar,no less!....Tom's poetic readings were state-of-the-art;then almost unknown among folk acts,etc.......thankfully Tommy is still going strong,Liam has done some fine work with his son,Donal,and nephew Robbie....Tom,Paddy and Bobby have passed on.......a wonderful legacy ........


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Mickey191
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 01:12 PM

They were terrific! From the first,when they apeared at the "Village Vanguard" in Greenwich village in NY, to the last, they were a joy. Saw them every chance I could get & bought their records.They alone were the reason alot of Irish/American kids, such as myself, became interested in the genre. In turn, the older folks came to appreciate that Irish Music could be more then McCormick & the McNultys.

Who's maligning them? Why? Can't people just enjoy a thing for what it is-no deep probing needed here. Just friggin' enjoy!


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: ard mhacha
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 02:41 PM

As the man says just listen and enjoy, Bob Dylan did say that Liam Clancy was the best singer of folk songs he ever heard.
Musical snobs abound everywhere and espically on the Mudcat.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Blackcatter
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 04:43 PM

A wonderful statement Bernie - are you new around here or am I having a senior moment (at the tender age of 37)?


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Folkiedave
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 04:54 PM

I saw them perform with the Eddie and Finbar Furey. They were great!!

Regards,

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Joybell
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 05:57 PM

Thanks Bernie. They also had a big influence on us here in Australia. I always admired their straight forward approach to the songs. Your comments are spot on. Joy


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 07:50 PM

En route to Shannon on Aer Lingus I had a conversation about the
"boys" or "lads" with a fellow passenger. "Oh," she said, "They're Americans!"

They were marvelous guys. Wherever they went, instant hooley!

Tommy Makem is the Bard of Armagh in my book.

I was privileged to work with them in Chicago. I remember those parties. Off came the shirts and with a can of beer they could sing around the clock.

They made Irish music come alive for me and lead me to an interest in Comhaltas and Irish music in general. God bless 'em.

Frank


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: GUEST,Sean Mc Cormack.
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 08:09 PM

This thread should be in, how do you make money out of folk music, if you see Liam Clancy's house in Waterford, in Ireland, you will see how it's done. The Clancy's were first of all actors, who took Irish Music to a level never seen before in America, when they payed the first time in Carnegie Hall the Irish at home had never heard of them, but they were super. They were also the first to bring some of the neglected songs of the English tradition to a wider audience, but of course, in terms of the Mudcat Cafe they sold out, fair play to them.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Joybell
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 08:18 PM

Who says they "sold out" Sean? I haven't read all the threads about the Clancys on Mudcat but there's no comment like that on this thread. Joy


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: JJ
Date: 18 Jan 04 - 08:09 AM

I have every one of their Columbia albums on LP, a collection filled out through a couple of years of careful eBay bidding. How is it that a group so popular had so few of their recordings make the jump to CD?


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Bo Vandenberg
Date: 18 Jan 04 - 07:02 PM

Some people simply cannot enjoy the success of others -- I think that is the root of any slagging. If they didn't perform a song as you would do it, you can be sure there is more interest in that song now for your version.

They opened up concert halls, audiences and radio waves to folk music. Not bad for New York Insurance agents. I think their biggest talent was infectious love of their material and audience.

People who hate a trail blazed by others best make their own trail -- bet it doesn't reach as far.

Sigurd


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: curmudgeon
Date: 18 Jan 04 - 08:43 PM

Certainly, no one can deny the importance of these lads on the resurgence of traditional Irish song. When they came on the scene there was only Patrick Galvin, Seamus Ennis, Margaret Barry, Paddy Tunney, and a couple others, all wonderful, but without the C/M dynamics.

Oddly enough, the first true Irish trad songs I heard were recorded by Ewan MacColl. But when I first heard Tommy Makem, I was hooked. But of more importance to me, after absorbing the Columbia discs, was the discovery of the material on Tradition; not overly slick or arranged, but rather honest to the sentiment of the songs.

Their musical "flaws" if indeed they can be thus categorised have to do with copyrights and Hiberniosity.

When they issued their song book on Oak, many of the songs were copyrighted by them, as original or arranged adapted, et al. At the time, Sing Out called them on it, noting that their claim for South Australia was for a version, note for note, word for word, and in the same key as Lloyd and MacColl had done it.

I cannot flaw them personally for implying that some of their English songs were Irish; critics, reviewers, and singers who don't bother to research their material all share in the blame.

Back around 1961, I learned a version of the English song "The Wild Rover" from a recording by John Runge, no claps, no syncopation. When I met Lou Killen some twenty years back, he sang his version of this same lyric with the preface that he wished he's never taught it to some freinds of his.

All this said, we who love Irish song will always be in their debt for the opening wide of the gates of this genre of song -- Tom


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Blackcatter
Date: 18 Jan 04 - 10:53 PM

JJ -

I have 18 Clancy Bros albums on CD. That's pretty much enough for me. (I also have many of the early albums).


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Jimmy C
Date: 18 Jan 04 - 11:42 PM

I was at their concert in the Ulster Hall in Belfast in the early 60's and have been a fan ever since. They ignited an interest in Irish Music that was always there but a little below the surface. When the interest grew the new singers/musicians did more research into the material and a generation of musical snobs evolved, and the Clancys etal were seen as comercial entertainers rather than true singers of folk songs. I encountered the same snobbery with some Irish speakers, they always complained that the language was dying and something had to be done, but when the interest in the language grew and many people started speaking it these same language snobs did not feel so special anymore. I always felt many of them wanted to keep a closed shop,all others were viewed as outsiders. Anyone who maligns the Clancy's are probably those who feel they are more traditional and as such true folkies rather than commercial folkies, although not one of them would refuse the opportunity to make it big the way the Clancy's did. I hope this makes sense.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Blackcatter
Date: 19 Jan 04 - 12:36 AM

Simple statement - how did the Clancys HURT traditional Irish music?

They did nothing to cause songs to be forgotten.

They did nothing to cause traditional styles to be forgotten.

They did nothing to cause people to ignore traditional music.

They did nothing to casue the history of storys behind the songs to be forgotten.


And above all the other stuff they did do (as is listed earlier inv the thread - they helped foster a revival in American folk music. Ask Pete Seeger or Bob Dylan what influence they had.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: JJ
Date: 19 Jan 04 - 08:49 AM

Blackcatter, please tell me where you got those CDs! The vinyl is fine, but it does wear out.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Blackcatter
Date: 19 Jan 04 - 11:03 AM

Hi,

Over the years in various local stores in the Orlando, FL area. Some of them aren't reissues of original albums, but are put together from various live performances and studio things, but they're all pretty good at the least.

Here's what I have - Amazon or Barnes and Noble or Virgin Records probably have some of them available on line.

Lark in the Morning and The Clancy Children - So Early in the Morning (these 2 were released by Tradition in a 3 CD set along with a Seamus Ennis CD.)
In Person at Carnegie HallColumbia
The Clancy Brothers Live! w/ Robbie O'ConnellVanguard
Ain't It Grand BoysColumbia Legacy (2 CD set)
ReunionShanachie
Songs of Ireland and BeyondColumbia Legacy
The Clancy Brothers & Tommy MakemTradition
Tunes 'n' Tales of Ireland (w/ Robbie O'Connell) Folk Era
Irish Drinking SongsColumbia (an album w/ the Clancys and the Dubliners
Irish Folk Songs & AirsThe Clancys & T.M. & their families - Legacy
In ConcertColumbia
ChristmasColumbia
28 Irish Pub SongsPrestige Sounds
Wrap the Green FlagColumbia Legacy
Luck of the IrishColumbia Legacy
The Makem & Clancy Concert (Liam Clancy)Shanachie
Older But No Wiser(w/ Robbie O'Connell) Vanguard

Hope that helps


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: GUEST,guest mick
Date: 19 Jan 04 - 11:19 AM

To some extent the Clancys invented the genre . To what extent do people think their format was influenced by the success of the pop bands of the time ,the Beatles etc?


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: ard mhacha
Date: 19 Jan 04 - 04:23 PM

Jimmy C, You hit a couple of nails on the head, I agree with your viewpoint on The Clancys, I know lots of people had their first introduction to folk music from the lads.
And you are right about some of the Gaelige snobs, there were too many School teachers involved.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: PoppaGator
Date: 19 Jan 04 - 05:01 PM

I'm pretty sure that these guys predated the Beatles (even though their heyday continued well into the rock era). In fact, the future Beatles very likely heard a few Clancy Brothers tunes while they were still in Liverpool.

The Clancys were living in New York (or, at least, spending a lot of time there) in the early-to-mid-sixties, at which time they were acquainted with, and greatly influencing, the young Bob Dylan. Several of Bob's early songs featured his original lyrics sung to Irish and quasi-Irish tunes from the Brothers' repertoire (e.g., "Restless Farewell" and "With God On Our Side"). This was long before anyone in America ever heard of the Beatles, and *probably* before many Brits. The Beatles may have been famous in Hamburg by then, but I doubt that the Clancys were aware of them yet.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Blackcatter
Date: 20 Jan 04 - 01:25 AM

I'm not sure exactly when they started performing (it was after 1955 whne Liam and Tommy M. emigrated to the U.S.). But they were most definately performing and recording before 1960. Since the Beatles became successful themselves in 61 or so, obviously the Clancy's were not influenced by the Beatles early on. Possibly there was a connection with the skiffle craze - which only had a limited run in the U.S. - but who knows.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: paddymac
Date: 20 Jan 04 - 02:29 AM

I had the very great pleasure of opening for Tommy Makem here in Tallahassee 6 or 7 years ago. Simplest and best rendition of "Four Green Fields" that I have ever heard. He is a gentleman of the highest order.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: greg stephens
Date: 20 Jan 04 - 04:44 AM

Liam has a great autobiography out at the momen,can't remember the tiyle. fascinate insight into the New York scene in the early days. Plus the account of his life as a minder (and more!) for an American song collector in Ireland is totally wonderful.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: ard mhacha
Date: 20 Jan 04 - 07:54 AM

Liam Clancy`s book is entitled, "The mountain of the women", this ia great read, this man led a fascinating life,Greg is right a wonderful read.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 20 Jan 04 - 08:32 AM

More the Kingston Trio than The Beatles, I should think...

Regards


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Jan 04 - 08:47 AM

When I married, it wasn't so much a merging of two lives into one as a merging of Clancy records (LPs at the time, but I've been married so long it might well have been wax cylinders).

Over the years, I've found CD recordings by the Clancys at both Borders books and Barnes and Noble. The last one we bought was "Wrap the Green Flag 'Round Me."


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 20 Jan 04 - 04:18 PM

Nobody interested in folk songs who saw the Clancys and Tommy Makem's TV debut on the Ed Sullivan Show about 1960 or their appearance on the Danny Thomas sitcom a little later is likely to forget it. Sure, the
guitar was thumpy and the rowdy enthusiasm has become unfashionable, but the energy! the freshness! the fabulously unsentimental songs like "Brennan on the Moor," which were then almost never heard outside of the old Folkways catalogue! The tin whistle, played to perfection by Tommy Makem, was also a novelty.

The Irish repertoire in the US at the time was mostly limited to "Danny Boy," "When Irish Eyes are Smiling," "Harrigan," and a few others, plus bel canto performances of some of Thomas Moore's pieces - and "Danny Boy."

Makem and the Bros. opened up the Irish songbag to Americans (and most Irish!) like no commercial group before or since. Their texts and tunes were free of hokum and almost always close to the originals.

If their best albums now seem bland or dated, it's only because we've become used to the more complex performance styles that the Clancys paved the way for.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Nerd
Date: 20 Jan 04 - 04:52 PM

I don't think there are many who doubt that the Clancy brothers paved the way for Irish music in other forms. But there were some things that bothered people about them that I think were legitimate.

The idea of pretending a song was Irish was one of those things. Indeed, the Dubliners recorded The Wild Rover before the Clancys did, but made it clear it was a song Luke Kelly had picked up in England. The Dubliners weren't ashamed of Luke's apprenticeships with Ewan MacColl, and the influence of both English and Scottish material on his repertoire. The Clancys pretended everything they played was Irish. There was also a general hokiness about Clancy shows that bothered some people, with everything being very scripted. There was the fact that, once they became big, they hired some of the best musicians in Ireland to tour with them (eg. Nollaig Casey and Arty McGlynn), but hid them behind the curtains so nobody saw them. That way, it looked like they were really playing their instruments. These are all minor things, of course, but they added up and annoyed a lot of folks.

Then there was a feeling among many Irish people that the Clancys were playing music aimed at the American market, and that they were in fact Americans, "returned Yanks," who had made millions of dollars simply by marketing their Irishness. They felt it unfair that some people could get rich by being "professional Irishmen" while many other Irishmen were poor. So that added to it.

However, they did gain a level of acceptance on their own terms in Ireland, and of course were hugely influential on the whole "ballad group" phenomenon. Then, in the following generations, another development occurred: the generally rudimentary nature of the musicianship in ballad groups turned off many young people to Irish music, while the stiff classical arrangements of the Chieftains didn't help either. Bono for one has spoken about this; they learned about Irish music in school, but hated it. So there are a number of different reasons why people don't like the Clancy brothers.

But the bottom line is, even if you don't like their music, if you like what came after (eg. Planxty, The Bothy Band, Altan), then you owe them a debt.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Blackcatter
Date: 20 Jan 04 - 06:34 PM

The Clancys pretended everything they played was Irish

I would argue against this statement. Their albums typically say little one way or another whether the songs are Irish or not. In concert, they talk about some of the songs as they introduce them, but most of the time it's about the song, not where they learned it, or even who wrote it (this is a pity, but it was common - hell, they didn't typically make a big deal about the songs Tommy Makem wrote. Their Irish Songbook simply states for The Wild Rover: "The story of a young man reformed from drinking, this is quite a popular song in Ireland, England, and Australia."

The liner notes from In Concert clearly states: Peggy Gordon: "is a love song from Scotland." Mick McGuire: "one of the rowdiest of all vaudeville songs." In This Windy Old Weather: "was borrowed with thanks from Pete Seeger."

Maybe - for simplicity's sake - they were often refered to as Irish Singers - this might be a unfortunate simplification, but it happens all the time. (After 30+ years of recording, Jimmy Buffett still cannot be "labeled")


As for the other two issues stated, I cannot argue with either. One is merely a stylistic choice they made (most likely fostered by the fact that Tom and Paddy were actors aas well).


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Nerd
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 01:54 AM

Blackcatter, thanks for your response. As to the dates, they predated the Skiffle craze slightly. Their first recording was made, according to its producer Kenny Goldstein, in Kenny's kitchen in Brooklyn in 1956. Kenny's wife Rochelle had to hold her hand over baby Rhoda's mouth during the recording. Rhoda now has twin boys of her own, about 11 years old...


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 04:37 AM

G'day Greg Stephens,

... the account of his life as a minder (and more!) for an American song collector in Ireland ...

I came across a Tradition CD of that collecting trip - unfortunately I can't lay my hands straight on it. The collector was an American woman, who was running Tradition Records and had come to Ireland with another woman, following some introductions and suggestions from the older Clancy boys in New York. They met the Makems, mother & son ... and this is when Tommy Makem met Liam Clancy. They all went off in an hired Austin A40 and met wonderful old Irish musicians and singers ... both sides of a border being patrolled by murderous factional gunmen.

The Tradition CD is called The Lark in the Morning - Liam Clancy, Tommy Makem, Family & Friends D 19379 ... and has some wonderful notes and photos squeezed into a tiny CD booklet (the LP version of these notes must be a treasure!). If you can still find it ... grab it!

Apart from its own great charm, I find it interesting to compare with the beginnings of systematic collecting in Australia ... in mush the same years.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: JJ
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 08:03 AM

Thank you, Blackcatter, for the CD list. In it I see my problem -- only three, perhaps four of those are the original Columbia recordings (not including the two-CD set).

Those are the recordings I long to see returned to print.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 10:14 AM


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Blackcatter
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 10:54 AM

JJ,

There is probably more of the Columbia recordings available on CD - those just happen to be the ones I've bought from local shops. Columbia probably has a online catalog.

Nerd -

You're probably right with the Skiffle craze. And really, I think that the Clancys & T.M. took their cue from their families get-togethers in the pre-war days in Ireland. That's what they always said and we have a bit of proof with the connection of the early recordings of Tommy's mom Sarah's friends, etc.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: ard mhacha
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 01:26 PM

Bob Bolton writes about " both sides of the border being patrolled by murderous factional gunmen,".    Bob when Liam Clancy and Tommy Makem were heading off to Tommy`s home in Derrynoose, Armagh, the only murderous gunmen they would have encountered in those days would have been some Farmer shooting rabbits.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 05:51 PM

I have the original Vinyl of "The Lark in the Morning". (For sale) The woman collector was Diane Hamilton. There is no booklet........(that i not to say there wasn't one.......songs collected 1955......Liam Clancy looks like a naughty schoolboy............

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 06:04 PM

I have a copy of the Traditions "Lark in the morning" and I don't remember a booklet with it....


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: Blackcatter
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 06:18 PM

As far as I know there wasn't a booklet with Lark in the Morning.

The opening sentence of the notes from the CD state: "The songs on this album are from a much more innocent time and they are presented here in all their unadorned simplicity." They were written by Liam Clancy for the reissue of the album.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiousity
From: curmudgeon
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 06:34 PM

As with many LPs from the good old days, some had booklets, some did not. My copy of the Lark has one -- Tom


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiosity
From: Blackcatter
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 01:17 AM

Guess I didn't know very far - But the one you have has to be different than the one in the CD - Liam talks about things that happened as late as 1987.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiosity
From: Gurney
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 01:54 AM

Just like many others, I was much influenced by the Clancys.
I can understand why someone would think they tried to make every song Irish, but their lovely accents do that automatically.
The only sour note I can recall is this: I owned their songbook, 35 years ago. All the songs in there were marked copyright(them,) and they were mostly traditional songs, some predating them by hundreds of years.
No, there were no arrangements in it, just a treble staff and guitar chords. I wonder if they really tried to claim copyright to songs like those, or if it was some manager chancing his arm.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiosity
From: GUEST,guest tom
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 08:21 AM

Is that the same book that has the great photo of them singing in a tree all dressed up in their aran sweaters ? I'd love to get a copy of that picture if anyone has it.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiosity
From: GUEST,weerover
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 12:00 PM

My first interest in folk music derived from my granny's collection of CB records. I'm off to see Sean Cannon tonight: if it hadn't been for the Clancys & Tommy Makem I might never have heard of him.

wr


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiosity
From: Jim McLean
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 12:38 PM

I knew Paddy very well in the early sixties and shared a drink or two (or three) when he was in London. They had their own publishing company, Tiparm, hence everything Trad was copyright themselves thus allowing them to claim 100% royalties.
I had great time for them all.
Jim McLean


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiosity
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 04:17 PM

G'day again,

The Tradition sampler CD (where I gleaned the catalog # for Lark in the Morning CD) does, on inspection, say that the notes are new ones by Liam Clancy ... so the LP did not have them.

ard mhacha: I now have the CD to hand: Liam Clancy describes the car being bailed up by "The B specials" - who had "shot and killed a young man near Keady the previous year" - when they were returning from a night with Paddy Tunney, in Letterkenny, County Donegal ... and claims they were let pass on because one of the occupants had trod in '... "doggy doo" (as Catherine so delicately put it) ...' and the smell was pretty ripe by that point!

I have to get back editing February Mulga Wire ... and that has just been slightly adjusted by the arrival of Malcolm Douglas' new revision of the EFDSS Classic English Folk Songs book. Now I have to shuffle content and write a new review! (Well, thuis is now posted in the morning from my work 'puter, as Mudcat was speaking but not listening all last night - this message:

Error Occurred While Processing Request
Error Diagnostic Information
An exception occurred while reading the content stream from the web server


Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiosity
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 07:09 PM

Bob or folkiedave, do you happen to know whether 'The Lartk in the Morning' was reissued by Murray Hill as part of the 5-LP-Tradition collection 'Songs, Ballads, Jigs & Reels of Ireland'? There is one LP with the Clancys and their families, sometimes children singing short songs on their own. I've been trying for years to find out which LP that is. Haven't got time tonight, but I'll copy the tracklist if that helps.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiosity
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 11:48 PM

G'day Susanne,

My copy is just a single CD - and it is listed on the 'sampler' CD in its own right. As I understand Tradition's comments, they came across it in the depths of their back catalog ... realised it contained the first recordings of Liam & Sarah Makem - and decided it should see the light as a CD.

It is possible that it is also 'packaged' with others to form a 'set' ... but I know nothing of that.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiosity
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 11:53 PM

Oh ... Susanne,

I should have read your post more carefully: this is not any the "Clancy/Makem Family" recordings - Liam and Sarah both sing one song each on this CD and the rest is, essentially, "field recordings" of Irish singers and musicians ... some of whom went on to become well known in the "Folk Revival".

I do have some of the sort of "family" recordings of the Clancys and Makem, with the kids joining in, or doing their own songs ... both as LPs and as CDs ... somewhere on my shelves. I'll see what I can find.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiosity
From: Blackcatter
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 01:58 AM

Lark in the Morning (CD) from Tradition is subtitled "Liam Clancy, Tommy Makem, Family & Friends." It features tracks by Paddy Tunney, Tommy Makem, Padraig O'Keefe, Joan Butler, Peg Power, Liam Clancy, Joan Clancy, Dennis Murphy, Sean Mac Donnehadha, Sara Makem, Peter Bates, & Thomas Baynes.

I purchased it as part of a 3 CD set entitled The Best of the Celtic Tradition. The other 2 CDs were The Clancy Brothers & Tommy Makem & A Bonnie Bunch of Roses - Seamus Ennis.


I have 2 Clancy albums that feature their kids - So Early in the Morning from Tradition with Robert Clancy's grandkids, Peg Clancy Power, Bobby Clancy with help by Seamus Ennis and Diane Hamilton.

The other is Irish Folk Songs And Airs from Legacy. The CD doesn't list who actually sung in the album, but both albums sound like they were from the same recording session - different takes maybe for some of them, but very similar.

Hope this helps.


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiosity
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 02:54 AM

G'day again,

I still can't see the 'family' CD ... but I think it is So Early in the Morning, as given by Blackcatter. (I seem to have at least a dozen Clancy/Makem LPs .. including two 'family' ones ... prbably mined for the CDs mentioned above!

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiosity
From: JJ
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 08:41 AM

Is there a possibility, I wonder, of a new group -- Aoife Clancy and the Makem Brothers?


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Subject: RE: Clancy Bros. and such: Curiosity
From: Blackcatter
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 11:25 AM

That'd be fun. . .

I have wondered if any of the girls and boys of the Makems and Clancys ever "hooked up"


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