BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities

Subject: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 06:59 AM

Hi, just wondering if other 'Catters who live in RURAL areas are experiencing similar problems to my home of Maleny, SE Queensland, Australia.

A large proportion of our population wants to retain our rural charm and community values and strong local ethical economy, in preference to the big-city Woolworths Supermarket moving in and taking over everything.

The usual tactics are to build a huge concrete monstrosity and due to their corporate buying power, make food prices so cheap that the existing local small businesses can't compete. Then when these have closed down and the BigBoys have got the monopoly, UP go their prices!!!

Trouble is, these BigBullyBoys don't buy from local fresh organic growers and producers, but from a centralised point elsewhere in the nation - and neither do they support the local community in donations the way our small businesses currently do. Corporate profits also go to the directors and shareholders elsewhere and are not spent in the local area.

Despite claims of "creating employment", statistics show that more jobs are actually lost when these guys come to your town, due to the closure of other businesses : Woollies like to gain control of "The Big 3" : food, fuel, alcohol - so after establishing the Supermarket, they put in the petrol/gas bowsers, then the tavern/pub. They also, of course, cover the bakery, newsagent, greengrocer, chemist/pharmacy areas (to name just a few) within their complex.

We have just witnessed the developers moving in with the bulldozers and (illegally) destroying stands of mature trees along our river bank (homes of the birds and possums) and in the process, the habitat of the endangered Platypus - all in the name of "Progress" that WE MUST HAVE, just because it suits the Big Business Bullies to increase their power and profits in OUR town : what The Community want for themselves and their future and the town in which they live, counts for nought!!!

I have posted this email from a friend who has posted pictures and data on The Net on the battle so far :

" Hello everyone,
Please take the time to have a look at this website that I have created regarding the protest action we are undertaking here in Maleny against a supermarket development.

http://www.ecocyber.com.au/maleny/Index.htm

If you are concerned by what you see and read, please send an email of protest to those able to remedy things:
http://www.ecocyber.com.au/maleny/Residents_Info.htm
Thanks for taking the time to support my town in this action.
Regards,
Steve "


Can other 'Catters report on similar happenings in their villages and towns??? Have any of you WON battles (or the war??)

Thanks,
Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: freda underhill
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 08:13 AM

Hi Rich-joy

what a pity to hear that Woollies has eyed off Maleny, one of the most beautiful towns in Queensland.

David Bradbury has made a documentary about a successful battle against developers in Byron Bay, information about it can be seen at:

http://www.frontlinefilms.com.au/videos/byron.htm

there is an article about the campaign here:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/01/14/1042520613023.html

and a here's link to the local rag, the Byron Bay Echo. They may be able to put you in email contact with the successful campaigners in Byron:

http://www.echo.net.au/


good luck and best wishes

freda

ps have some old friends in Maleny and go there every few years - I love it!

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: artbrooks
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 08:33 AM

This has been a problem in the States for a long time. What we see now is that the large supermarkets (in my city they are Albertsons and Smith/Kroger) are being eaten by even larger supermarkets like Walmart. Some specialty stores, like butchers, still survive, as do those catering for nitch markets such as organic/"health food" groceries. Its hard to fight lower prices and a better selection of food, though.

Good luck to you, and I hope you come out better than we did.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: JenEllen
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 11:29 AM

Yeah, Rich. Put "Wal-Mart" in the search engine and see how much fun we've been having in the states. I have to side with Art. I hope you come out better than we did, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 02:37 PM

Ironically, here in the states, the Woolworth's variety store chain is completely gone--they have been completely devoured by they big discounters(first K-Mart, and then Walmart) even Woolco, which was their big discount chain, is long gone--

This is the 21st century equivalent of being invaded by the Mongol Hordes, and like the Mongol Hordes, when the tide of battle turns, they will steal off into the night, leaving nothing but rubble--

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 03:37 PM

They will suck the life out of your town, then sell the shell to some foreign investor.

Beware of no-wage jobs so that you end up supporting THEIR employess as we here in the US have to do for Maul Wart!

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 04:01 PM

They call it progress! Also it's called capitalism.

You are going to have to deal with it.

They have the right to try to do a better job than others at what they do.

If you don't like it, don't shop there. Or move.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: DougR
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 04:14 PM

If the savings from dealing with the large chains over the Mom and Pop stores means nothing to you, then I can understand why you feel as you do. However, one cannot stop the world from turning. This is not the 20th Century, and as much as we might like to keep the old ways, there is little way one can stop it.

Martin offers some good advice. If you don't like the new stores, don't patronize them.

As to the snide remarks about Wal-Mart, I say, horse pucky. Wal-Mart is probably the largest employer in the U. S. next to the federal government. The people employed there need those jobs every bit as much as those earning six figure annual salaries. Also Wal-Mart contributes millions of dollars to local charities. It has become "fashionable" to bash Wal-Mart because, I suppose, they are so large and represent to the lefties all that is bad about corporations. They do far more good than harm in the communities they serve, as far as I am concerned, and they offer their customers good prices.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 04:22 PM

DougR

You are so, so right!

There have been other threads that have tried to knock Wal-Mart and the arguement against them is total bullshit.

I shop Wal-Mart. I pay lower prices for name brand merchandise and I like that. Spending more money on the exact same item to prove a point is not really very wise.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: DougR
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 04:43 PM

Martin: Yep.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 11:00 PM

Thanks for your comments, all.

However, I must say that many of us moved to the country to get away from the rat race of the Big City or the souless suburban sprawl and its ugly shopping complexes - WHY, Martin, should WE have to keep moving???!! It's not as if these things aren't already available to us , LESS than a half-hour drive away!! Why is it necessary to reduce beauty and serenity and uniquness to the lowest common denominator, so that everywhere is filled with the same crap?? (Once inside most shopping centres and large supermarkets, you could be anywhere in the Western world - they're all manufactured to the same formula ...)

Our town is already well serviced by many small shops AND a really GREAT supermarket, all owned and operated by people who live in the area and whose children go to the various schools in the district and who are a part of THIS Community - not some faceless Board residing down in Sydney or Melbourne! Woollies are NOT responding to a need by the population, but are just staking their claim (i.e. OUR town) for the future, against the other retail giants ...

DougR says : " If the savings from dealing with the large chains over the Mom and Pop stores means nothing to you, then I can understand why you feel as you do "
Well, I definitely don't have money to burn, but I can't believe that it should all come down to money and "cheaper goods" - quality of life and sense of Community, people having time for each other, peace and quiet, less crime and less traffic congestion, beautiful natural surroundings, proximity to wildlife, clean air : far, far, less pollution (atmospheric AND noise AND visual), a sense of space, land to grow healthy produce, - all these are important : all these AND MORE!!! And these are but some of the reasons why people give up, often high-paying, jobs in the city to move to the country.

So WHY must the city be shoved on our doorstep yet again??!!
WHY do we have to have our unique towns of great beauty homogenised into the enervating, ugly, blots of elsewhere???

(sad) Cheers!
R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 02:23 AM

G'day R-J,
In Katoomba in NSW they put in a Coles/K Mart which replaced an entire block of houses, and they did exactly what you said, underpriced everyone else and drove them out of business, and now, apparently they are the most expensive Coles & K Mart in the state.
Ironically, a lot of us are hoping Woollies & Big W will lob in town soon, to provide a little competition.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: musicmick
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 02:31 AM

Of course, Rich has a right to oppose supermarkets. I just don't understand why he's opposing them in this forum. There's little we can do about it and there's so much his neighbors can do. All Rich has to do is convince enough neighbors (It doesn't even have to be a majority. He can stop the mega-merchants in their tracks. (It shoulldn't be too difficult to bring folks around to his way of thinking. He has already convinced us.)
That's the way things work in a free society. No corperation stays where it's not wanted, not because they're sensative, but because they are bottom lined oriented.
I do not patronize the neighborhood Rite Aid. I prefer the independant on the side street and I am willing to deal with the shorter business hours and limited selection to support my community.
But, obviously, there are others in East Falls who choose price and convenience over home town pride. Thus, it has always been. It is the way of the world and the crumbled cookie.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: freda underhill
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 03:36 AM

musicmic

I think the point of this forum is to consult, just like on any other issue, in order to learn tactics!! that's the way things work in a free society!

best wishes

fred

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 03:49 AM

I s'pose, Musicmic, that considering The Mudcat Cafe is an international forum, of people who care about this planet and their society (i.e. FOLKIES!), I wanted to know if we Down Under, were alone in this problem, or, if a similar problem has occurred in other parts of the world (e.g. English village communities) and what (if any), stategies have been successful in retarding the impact of these huge monopolies in those other places.

I am certainly not against "supermarkets" - just those that are inappropriately situated and that use their money and power to smash any competition - all in the name of free enterprise! Many of us have decreed never to shop there if it takes over our town. Many of us have also decreed never to shop at another Woolworths store again - ANYWHERE!!! I'm enough of a realist to feel that I can adopt the former stance - but probably not the latter!!!!

Although - and I'm only on a SLIGHT tangent here!!! - it is that "convenience" that you mention, of the last 50-odd years of Supermarket foods, that has helped turn a large proportion of Western society into under-nourished, under-energised, yet overfed blimps - and I'm sad to count myself somewhere in those ranks!!!
Er ... anymore of those crumbled cookie crumbs left? ... what flavour are they? ... orange and macadamia! Yum! my favourite!!

Cheers!
R-J
(a She, BTW!)

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 03:58 AM

If Wookies is anything like the NZ variety it is like Tesco and Sainsburys here. They are locked in a battle for market share and it is looking like Tescos has won it. 1 in 8 UK pounds are spent in Tescos and to convince us that we should shop there they now sell goods that are anything but grocery. Clothes TV's Pharmacy and they have to open 24 hours and have the cafe to drag-in the unconvinced. Creches, resident chaplains, and singles evenings are the sort of thing they are trying.

Sounds a bit like a community dunnit? Where people wander round wondering at the two rows of shelves for pet food with or without herbs (Huh?) and the diminishing array of traditional fodder like jam and buscuits.

Sadly the 24 hours thing is the one facet that I have to use when I can't walk to my Co-op shop (politcally active and socially aware). I really enjoy that walk.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 04:04 AM

Just found this info about a similar problem in the very beautiful Kuranda, in tropical FNQ (Far North Queensland), Australia :


" Hi there,
I just thought I would make contact with your campaign to save the banks of the Obi Obi Creek from development. I strongly support your efforts and will be following the outcome with great interest. We in Kuranda are fighting simiarly a development proposal for a supermarket here. Whilst IGA has pulled out due to community opposition we will now go to the Planning and Environment Court to have the development approval thrown out. Similarly, and our main concern and campaign is against proposed development that will turn Kuranda "Village in the Rainforest" into a city of 50,000 (present population 3,000) . This is facilitated by the construction of a four lane highway through World Heritage Rainforest from near Cairns to Kuranda, a distance of 14 kilometres at a cost of $500,000,000. That's right, half a billion dollars, part of which will come out of the State budget for roads at the expense of all other needs in Queensland and destroying at least 50 hectares of World Heritage rainforest, inhabited by rare and endangered species including the Cassowary. Nothing is sacred anymore from development. "


I won't give her name as I haven't sought permission to copy this onto the Web (sorry)

Cheers!
R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: freda underhill
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 08:18 AM

Up the road in King St newtown (groovy part of Sydney, for those not from Oz) a MCDonalds set up. Now King St is the home of restaurants -you can walk up the road and by food from any country you want to name - African food, cambodian, turkish, vietnamese, tibetan, greek, Thai, lao, italian, french, mongolian, etc etc

I'm pleased to report that the McDonalds had to close down through lack of business - the competition was too stiff, and people in Newtown enjoy their food.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Peace
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 03:32 PM

One of the 'answers' is as follows. Get lots of people together and purchase certain staple foods in bulk. People pay for what they order up-front, and you and your friends order by the truckload.

Certain canned foods are ubiquitous (sp?--first time I have ever had a need for that word) to regions or areas. So, buy caseloads and sell only caseloads.

Peas, beans, corn, noodles, like that. It will mean you have to buy the fresh stuff from the store, but you will be able to realize a substantial savings on things you use very frequently. I was involved with something like that years back. There are a few simple rules.

1) You want to split a case, that's up to you, not the 'co:op)
2) If you weren't at the meeting, you get what's on the list or it ain't coming
3) You pay cash, up-front, period.
4) When the order comes, you arrange to pick it up. We ain't Pizza Hut and we don't deliver.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: musicmick
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 04:43 PM

Cher RJ,

I wish you all the luck in the world. You will need that and more. If, like youself, others succumb to the iniquities of mass culture cuisine and the lower prices that are available from chain retailers and the wider selection the store size permits, you have a hard row to hoe. It is, only, when a sizable number of customers elect to support their environment, at some cost to themselves, that the charm of traditional small town life can be saved. Of course, if your town is small enough, you could rally your fellow citizens to have zoning laws passed to preserve the local flavor and integraty.
What it all boils down to is democracy. By using the political and economic tools available to you in a free siciety, you can accomplish your goals. I'm a traditionalist, so I wish you the best.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 07:24 PM

Brucie has suggested what is basically the 'original co-op' style. Incidentally, if the cuurent local Supermarket initiated something like this, Woolies might be foreced to think twice...

The last time I was up there for your ABOFOTS, I noticed as I was drivingback, that the whole North Coast (visible fromo the mountain road) now is a sea of light. When I first started going up there in the 1970's, it was a sea of dark...

Just too many people...

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: freda underhill
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 07:55 PM

They have an excellent food co-op in Maleny - i think its businesses like that that the locals are worried about being muscled out by the big W.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 08:00 PM

Sadly, the town citizens thought that their town plan WAS in order : they'd held many meetings over the years to put forward their vision of what they wanted for their children and then forwarded the results to the council to be part of "The Plan".

But, all it takes are a few trusty councillors, and employees of a council (or govt dept) far away with a bigcity-culture, to be in the pocket of the developers and big business, and to then "lose" or just DELAY the paperwork and :
hey presto! legal vandalism!

So it's hard not to feel powerless against the bastardry!

We HAVE alternative places to shop - like I said, a great supermarket - AND a great Co-Op and organic greengocer etc. etc. - and the big stores are a half-hour drive away. It's NOW the problem of having the beauty and the wildlife habitats at the entrance to your town destroyed and to be "legally" replaced by people from far away with an ugly concrete block, complete with big advertising signs and water pollution and traffic jams and an eventual monopoly ...

I reckon it's makes for a healthier society for the money and goods in a town (or city) to be in many hands, not just a few (which is the ultimate aim of the Woolworths directors).

rant over - it's ANZAC Day here - and as the Maleny Protestors' banner says - "Thank You For Our Freedom : Lest We Forget"

Cheers!
R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 10:46 PM

There are lots of successful strategies for upending these folks--the critcal thing is that you must be organized, and everyone must be totally committed to see it through. The true problem are the officials of one sort and another who are in the pockets of the developers, but if you root them out, the battle is much easier--your people must be committed for the long haul, though--because often, it victory comes to those who just show up--

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 11:16 PM

Rich-Joy, they came to your town because their market research said that they would succeed there. And they will succeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: LadyJean
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 11:24 PM

The Pittsburgh Food Co Op is alive and well despite a big monopoly supermarket chain, and the arrival, two years ago, of Whole Foods, in the same part of town. Perhaps your locals could consider organizing co ops.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 10:10 AM

As a longtime advertising/marketing professional, Martin, I can assure you that marketing research is often really shoddy work--more often than not, it is contrived to support the view of who ever happens to be calling the shots in the corporate boardroom--

The real reason that these guys are expanding is that their business model requires expansion and they have the capital to expand--when the capital disappears, they sell out, close down, and move out--it costs more to stock and operate these mega-stores than it does to build them, once they go into the red, they have no hesitation about shutting them down.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 12:08 PM

True, I am also a marketing professional for a large corporation. But there are the ones who succeed and fail just like in anything else. How many Wal-Marts, McDonalds, and Walgreen drug stores have you seen go out of business?

So what if they have th capital to expand? That to me is not the point. It's that they have every right to do so. If they suck at it, that is the way it goes. You can write ordinances to keep them out of your town, but your residents will only go to the next town where they have opened up instead. Your town's businesses will lose and your town will lose the tax revenue.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Peace
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 01:12 PM

I agree with Martin. However, do not neglect the co-op idea. It does work and I does save people money. Eventually, however, all of it feeds the BIG machine.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 01:12 PM

No they don't go out of business they just hang on in there and slowly wither.

Maul Wart SUCKS

democrats BLOW

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 04:31 PM

I can't see anybody from the UK inputting on this. So here goes.

I live in a small rural town in England. population 3500 to 4500.
Next year TESCO will have a supermarket installed here.
What will the effect be to the local shops?
I think it will drive them out of business. We will be left with cafes and pubs.

Sure it will provide jobs and possibly bring more wealth to the town.

However, what will be lost is the fantastic small shop supplying specialised help and care. You go into these shops and they know their products and can advise at length on their products. They have time for you. You always see the same person, and their advice is so valuable. They support the community in many ways.

I personally don't see why Tesco's need to encroach on our small town at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: DougR
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 04:41 PM

Perhaps, but I believe there will always be niche for the small business that provides a needed service and does it better than the big guys. The one think lacking with most of the megastores is good service. You save money, but they can keep their prices lower because, basically, you serve yourself which saves the store labor cost.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 10:30 PM

Thanks, one and all, for your continuing comments.

Maleny, in Queensland, NE Australia, already has more "Co-Operatives" than most other places (I think second only to Mondragon, in Spain???)

Sadly, having strong alternative practices in place already, doesn't keep out the Big Bullies when they decide they want IN ...

And as I've said before, we already have a Woollies about 20minutes away in the next town (where many small businesses have NOW gone to the wall) - and there are any amount of super stores down on the coast, less than a half-hour's drive away.

However, Woolworths' aim is to monopolise every small town's economy, whether or not they're welcome OR needed!!! (i.e. greed)

I can't believe that "good business" ONLY = more money ... thankfully some businesses today are becoming more ethical and incorporating the "triple bottom line" into their philosophy instead ...

Cheers!
R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 11:52 PM

Who could forget Joni Mitchell's Big Yellow Taxi:

"You pave paradise and put up a parking lot"

Woolies sucks. It is just a huge money vacuum cleaner. Woolies don't own anything. They do deals with developers and lease their buildings for a 15 year term. They don't own the food they sell. It's contracted from the growers who they then screw into the ground with ever more stringent demands for unblemished goods.

"Give me spots on the apples and leave me the birds and the bees"

Poor Misery
(Rich Joy's Partner)

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,craig
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 02:33 AM

Lesson number 1.

Big business and property developers cannot be trusted.

A couple of months ago Woolwoths said they weren't going ahead with this project. The town sighed with relief and got on with its business.

At the time I thought it was too convenient and probably a developers trick to fool people into thinking the battle was won.

Of course, Cornerstone and Woolworths then turn up Easter Tuesday and demolish the forest before anything can be done.

This effort is typical of the development industry. Fool the pople and attack when they aren't looking.

As it was, Corenerstone acted illegally by clearing riverine vegetation. Don't expect them to be prosecuted though.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 03:24 AM

Over here in Germany we have similar problems.
In my home town (~25.000) all the smaller food shops (we call them Aunt Emma Shops) vanished, only one still survived due to his special service delivering goods to the lot of pensioners who can't walk and carry. In 7 years the keeper will close because of old age, and he won't find a successor.
All butchers with joint pubs selling meals and self made cider have closed, too. Instead we have got a lot of new restaurants run by Italians, Chinese, Greeks, and Turks. They are mostly run by entire families: it's cheaper because no wages are paid to family members.
There are still bakeries and butcheries, some old, some newcomers.
We have a market twice a week at the main street since medieaval times where the peasants sell their products. The ware is a little bit more expensive than in the supermarket, but the products from the land are of a higher quality.
1. Landownership: The town has bought a lot of areas in better times; it is not obliged to sell to any possible buyer if the community doesn't like his plans.
Due to German laws the community has some very fine instruments to keep the big corporations at bay:
2. The plan for area use: Here the community decides what can be built in a certain area and what not (general rules)
3. The building plan: Corporations allowed to use a certain area can be stopped when the planned building doesn't fit the communities restrictions (special rules).
3. A resolution of restriction: Special goods and shops can be banned from the general rules of 2 when area development runs to the wrong direction (we did it sometimes when I was in town council to protect the shops in town centre).
In supermarket sector we have a monopolist in the country; we just got an interesting offer by another corporation for an area in my town. The monopolist is bidding against; who ever gets it will pay by buying the land for the next 3 planned social projects. I personally prefer the newcomer, due to an old proverb: competition makes business lively (especially for the customers, with lower prices.)

Wilfried

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 02:33 PM

interesting point about taxes, Martin Gibson.
here in Vancouver as Im sure probably elsewhere, wall mart has been
wanting to open a store - but because of their size and the promise of jobs they want a break on property taxes - something those smaller stores dont get.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 07:45 AM

why dont we build cities out in the country away from all the crowds congestion and pollution?

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 08:31 AM

What id god's name is a nitch market ?

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 08:43 AM

I am more afraid of Martin Gibson's opinion than I am of Wal Mart.
He assumes that we have control over capitalism...that we choose where we shop(if big business destroys little business, big store are the ONLY choice. MOVE....spare me Mr. Gibson. Also the assumption that they do it better is an odd one..it equates bigness with ....what ?

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 01:21 PM

Mr Gibson belongs to the exclusive club of middlepeople, so you have to understand that if by competition Ozzy farmers work for nothing to compete with Asian famers who pay Woolworths to display Asian veggies the middlemen always collect because they own the warehouse as well as the Minister for import and shopping.

They never lose, you the consumer always get the shaft!

What can you do? Just don't shop at the cheap shoddy poison food mega stores! I don't as well as many others here in the US where shopping everywhere except Maul Wart is a saving.

We save money on return trips with defective shoddy broken in the package hardware, we save money on health bills by not eating Maul Wart pinebread ( made from wood chppings! ) or their shoeleather meat, or their watered down milk, or their underweight chickehshit coffee, or their wastecrude oil products like Smelly Valley Butter That Will Not Fatten ( sure you'll be dead from eating it )... and so on.

We save out community valable living wage jobs by supporting the local stores that pay a living wage. We save our tax burden by restricting the number of grossly underpaid Maul Wart employees who would be sucking off the welfare system.

So Ozzies if you care to save your society you can, though I agree one large bulldozer and a willing mob might be a little be faster In the end it will be the same thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,alexivirleo
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 09:41 PM

Martin Gibson calls this progress, I beg to differ. It simply another form of colonialism, empire building by the powerful few and a sure-fire way of controlling the masses by controlling what and where they consume. It is repressive and regressive, and the only things that progress are the monopolies that large corporations operate with more and more impunity AND government assistance, as well as assistance from those of us silly enough to think that those saved dollars in our purses don't come at a terrible cost . I live in Maleny, I live on not very much money, but I'd rather spend my last $ on a basket of local organic produce from the co-op, than support those lifebloodsuckers Woolies and have a trolley- full of cheap tainted goods.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 09:52 PM

Right-On, Sista!!

Cheers!
R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 01:14 AM

Actually, Martin, I can take you to a couple of abandoned Walmarts that were opened and closed within the last six years not far from the place I used to live North of Philadelphia--I remember the zoning adjustments and the local political fighting, including massive public concern at the traffic problems that the traffic lights and access roads would(and did) cause--

Walmarts are very vulnerable to certain sorts of competition, and oddly enough, often end up becoming their own competitors--If you care, there are some "guerilla" marketing strategies that can grease a Walmart pretty quickly--the only thing is that it doesn't have anything to do with organic co-ops or such things--

My problems with Walmart have to do with the fact that, A) though once they were a good employer, they seem to have become fairly despicable, B) Their stores are increasingly depressing and filthy, and C) their merchandise gets worse and worse (a result of their policy of forcing their suppliers to reduce prices every year)--

I actually like megastores, having grown up surrounded by Meijer's Thrifty Acres--though I don't think that they should be used to replace scenery--

The great anarchist visionary, Michael Kropotin, essentially predicted megastores, and the mass produced, low cost merchandise that fills them--they offer the working classes goods once only available to the aristocracy--and they represent an economy that is focussed on serving the classes that sustain it--

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,Steve Swayne
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 02:16 AM

Hello all,

I have read the threads of this discussion topic with interest. You may be interested to see the website created by the protesters in Maleny: http://www.malenyvoice.info

Thanks guys, and keep up all the positive comments.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,Aussiepom
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 10:22 PM

All the best to you, The Villan. If you feel strongly about your small town, keep talking to your friends about it. What do they think about Tesco moving in? Here in Maleny (around the size of your town) we have a very active group standing up for what we believe in. Not everyone feels the same. All are free to have their say. Ask people what they want in their in town, you may find you have a lot of support to stop this happening. Listen to the people who wantTesco - then if they're misinformed (some people still think it means more employment, cheaper shopping) do the research to find out what really happens, and share it with them. Once people realise the real consequences Ithink more would be passionate to stop the spread of big corporations and support a healthy local economy.

It's great to see the debate happening so widely. It's time to realise that the only reason these big corporations are so powerful is because we support them! The more people that withdraw suppport (eg don't shop there; lobby against development etc) the more we empower ourselves and stop feeling like victims of the big guys.

Even if you're the only person in your town that feels that way, you could enjoy the knowledge that you don't support an enterprise you don't believe in. I bet you're not the only one.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 11:05 PM

A couple of great websites relating to this debate (both from USA):
www.rmi.org is the site of Rocky Mountain Institute. Shows that there are ways for towns to grow at their own pace, and for small local businesses to thrive and townsfolk prosper. www.reclaimdemocracy.org - restoring citizen democracy over corporations.
Good to remind ourselves that even if the US government leaves MMMUUUUUCCHH tobe desired, there are some great people in that country making great attempts to restore the balance.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From:
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 01:00 AM

Some may say 'they don't want progress to come into there town', some may say 'U can't stop progress', others say 'progress is good for there town'. All I can say is we as people of this world have the right and obligation to ensure that progress enriches the environment and not just the pockets of those who bring it in. We as concerned members of our community must remind those who wish to "BULLIE" there way in, that it is up to us the direction that "progress" is taking OUR community. WE MUST ENSURE that this happens, not only for our and our children sake but the sake of OUR PLANET as a WHOLE. For All Creatures Great and Small.
Marko Cimesa, Maleny Protest Site, Qld.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 11:43 PM

THANKS, Guest 28th April, 11.05pm - those links were very interesting!

Cheers!
R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Shimbo Darktree
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 11:13 AM

Heavens to Murgatroyd, where does one start?

Firstly, I note that a question asked was "What is a nitch market?". Maybe I can help. In Australia, there has been a plague of nitches for some years. They are suspected to have been carried in a shipment of all-blacks (not a racist term) from a country (unnamed) to our immediate east. They are a small, uncomely mammal, but with a beautiful, soft fur for which the market has grown ("nitch market"). Rich-Joy's partner, Poor Misery (rofl ... I know him!) is, in fact, a nitch-sexer. (I would hasten to point out that this is a passive occupation, rather than an active pursuit.) He has also done the almost impossible, by keeping a nitch alive in captivity. It is a particularly fecund male, named "Four Ball Paul".

But I digress. The hard reality of Maleny goes thusly.

It was once a very small town, seen (by the "great majority") as having a few unwashed folkies carrying various unsavoury diseases, and indulging in various commie activities like not doing paid work, sharing with each other, and free love (must write about that one day ... I could never find the free variety ... and me being such a good-looking bloke, too ...). So far, so good. No-one is going to create a problem, except for the few people who believe in communes because it gives them their own power base.

Years pass, and city living becomes more stressful, while those pinko folkie radicals of yesteryear become the establishment of today. And they now want to actually live the life to which they once paid lip service. And where do they (read "we") go? To join the ranks of those verminous drop-outs in the sylvan surrounds of places like Maleny. It is happening all over Australia, and probably USA, UK, etc etc.

And what happens then? The fields gradually become housing, then speed up to become housing estates. While this is happening, the corner general store, local bakery, book swap, co-op club (whoops!), all either become larger, or close down. Why? Because the Big Boys are coming (see Cyril Tawney's "The Oggy Man"). They come because they believe they will make a quid, because they know that the town has developed to the stage where it is ready to lose its character, and become "just another town". Only the local people can stop this by doing things that have already been suggested - but will it happen? Once a place passes a certain size, it needs a very single-minded community to prevent unwanted development, because the truth is that a certain proportion of the community will welcome the development. And the Big Boys only need a proportion to start with - others will follow later.

I hope you and you neighbours win, Rich-Joy. Maleny is a great place to visit. Unfortunately, it seems it is also a great place to live, and perhaps too many "uncommitteds" have moved in. Get them along to the folk club, and we'll work on their conversion.

And keep the nitches out of the lettuces!

Love,

Shimbo

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 01 May 04 - 07:56 PM

ABC-TV Qld current affairs programme on Friday night showed how the concerned citizens of beautiful Buderim (on another mountain top, but closer to the coast) and Coolum-on-Sea (on the way to Noosa) have already lost their Battles With The Developers of Large Souless Shopping Centres, destroying the character of their towns ...

Maleny is gearing up for the long haul.

Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 02 May 04 - 12:30 AM

Well, I can see no one here has stopped Wal-Mart because of this thread. I believe they are still the world's largest company. I know for a fact that all of their suppliers love them. They provide their suppliers with tons of demographic and marketing information about themselves and the supplier's competitors.

Piss, moan, whine. This is just another typical thread bashing big business and/or Republicans.

I shopped at Wal-Mart the other day in a nice, clean store. Bought my son his first razor, a fine brand name. Bought a nice new desk chair also that I am sitting on right now. Fine deal and easy to put together. A great value.

So maybe a few Wal-Marts went out of business in some shitty areas that couldn't support squat. Hey, if they couldn't support Wal-Mart, they couldn't support much else.

And remember all you organic eating old folk-singers out there, shit is organic also.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Shimbo Darktree
Date: 02 May 04 - 12:04 PM

Thank you, Martin ... I am a bit lost on where the organic argument came from, but I accept your familiarity with your subject.

Shimbo

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 02 May 04 - 10:18 PM

You don't have to be familiar with it to know a simple fact, birdbrain.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 03 May 04 - 04:32 PM

Actually, Martin, Walmart's suppliers aren't necessarily too happy with them--check this out The Walmart You Don't Know. As to your snide remarks about the areas where the two Walmarts closed--there are plenty of other stores there that have not closed, in fact, they were both in high growth areas with lots of new retail development--

The thing about Walmart is that it sells to the bottom end of the market--a Walmart is great if you have no choice but to shop at those dumpy "mom and pops" that folks love to eulogize(but hated to shop at)--but the folks who move into the sprawling, expensive new developments want better quality stuff than Walmart carries, which is why Target, Circuit City, Kohl's etc are cutting into their market share--

Walmart sells low priced, low profit margin merchandise--their marketing strategy is to increase sales volume and to force their suppliers to keep cutting prices--that means the quality of their merchandise inevitably goes down--the thing is that the great majority of consumers want higher quality, and can afford to pay for it--where does that take Walmart?(Hint--Where are Woolco, Ames, and Jamesway?)

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 03 May 04 - 06:08 PM

So what? Really, so what?

Snide remarks? So a few Wal-Marts closed out of how many in this country? Hundreds? I'll bet less than 1% have closed.

What is so wrong with increasing sales volume and trying to get a better price from suppliers and passing it on to your customers? why don't you take a course in Business 101?

It has nothing to do with quality, especially when it comes to brand name merchandise which is virtually all the Wal-Mart carries. wal-Mart has very little if any in-house brands. don't like the way Sam's Cola tastes, don't buy it. I don't. It's crap. However, if they want to sell it for a quarter a can, they sure have every right to.

as for Target, they have the same brand names as Wal-Mart for more money.

But as I said, your issue about quality is full of holes. Wal-Mart cuts big time volume deals with it's suppliers for special prices on brand name products. The suppliers aren't being forced to do this, but Wal-Mart pays their bills quickly and gets the brand the exposure they want.

I still say that if you are paying more elsewhere based on silly principles, you are not really too good with money.

Target has the same brand names for more money. I never buy anything there. Kohl's on the other hand are geniuses as deep discounting clothes. You cannot buy Levi's anywhere for less. but you sure can't buy household or drugstore items there.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 03 May 04 - 06:41 PM

Hey Melany you do have a choice! In California Maul Wart had its arrogant OSU executive noses shoved up their own arses by City Planning, all you have to do is deny them permission to build. If they have already bought your city council, then take those buggars out and hang em - next elect your own people and revoke the planning concent.

The rest is easy ' p1ss oft Maulers go grow your stinking diseased Warts someplace else '

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,alexivirleo
Date: 03 May 04 - 08:11 PM

Hey Martin, maybe if you tried eating organically you would rid your body of all those nasty chemicals that are causing you to be so vitriolic towards your fellow folkies in this forum ( I am assuming that you consider yourself to be a folkie ??) hmmmmmm......folkies........folk music.......music of the PEOPLE..........hmmmm, seems like there might be some silly principles sung about in folk songs.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 03 May 04 - 09:10 PM

Actually, I gave up being a folk singer years ago.

I just sing gregorian chants in Chinese these days accompanied by a flugelhorn.

Keep humming. Maybe one day you'll get lucky.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 03 May 04 - 10:17 PM

I assume, Martin, since you said that you worked in marketing, that you realize that the "brand named products" that Walmart sells are made especially for Walmart, and are not necessarily comparable to the stuff with the same brand names that are sold in other stores. As to Target, fact is that a lot of the stuff in Target carries the Target label--better quality by far than Walmart--and fashionable to boot--

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 May 04 - 03:19 PM

MTed, if you believe that about the brand names that Wal-Mart carries, I will easily sell you a bridge over the desert. Brand names will not jeopardize their reputation for quality that way, especially sold in the high volumes that Wal-Mart sells them. As I said, Wal-Mart has big time buying leverage and will cut a high volume deal with suppliers that they cannot refuse. The suppliers make up for their lost profit margin with high volume gross profit dollars and so does Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart is a champion at big-time negotiating and cutting their profit margin way down on some products as loss leaders to get you in the store. Once there the consumer buys other items that Wal-Mart buys also at a great negotiated deal but does NOT pass on all the savings to you, so it all evens out for them.

It's called merchandising and no one in the world does it better than them.

As for Target, which is owned by the conglommerate Dayton-Hudson, I think their fashion is worthless even though they are marketing it as trendy.   By the low depth of hard goods inventory in their store, and their higher prices on those items, they have no where near the buying power that Wal-Mart has, house brand, notwithstanding.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: DougR
Date: 04 May 04 - 04:20 PM

It's amazing to me that you, M.Ted, and perhaps others, embrace Target while vilifying Wal-Mart! Martin is correct. Target is solely owned by the Dayton-Hudson Corporation which is a far cry from a Mom and Pop conglomerate.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 May 04 - 04:26 PM

From the article, linked above:

>Levi didn't actually have any clothes it could sell at Wal-Mart. Everything was too expensive. It >had to develop a fresh line for mass retailers: the Levi Strauss Signature brand, featuring Levi >Strauss's name on the back of the jeans.

Wasn't the same Vlasic pickles in those gallon jars at Walmart as were in the Vlasic pickle jars in the supermarkets, either. Tell you what, you go ahead and wear your Walmart clothes and I'll wear the ones I bought at Target, and lets leave it at that--

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 May 04 - 04:48 PM

Forget it. why should I leave it at that?

You pay more for the same garbage which is foolish.

Let's leave it at THAT!

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Kim C
Date: 04 May 04 - 04:58 PM

It's always been my understanding that all the clothes in the world are manufactured in about three places - they just put different labels on them, depending on where they're going and who's going to buy them. ;-) Target and Wal-Mart have different sorts of things - I have bought clothes at both. The independent shops in Nashville are invariably specialty boutiques that I simply CAN'T afford to shop in. How's that for irony?

Here's another thing to consider: when enough people move to a "rural" place, they start kvetching about all the stuff they don't have within a convenient distance. Some people WANT a supermarket. Some people WANT a Wal-Mart, or a Target, or whatever, because they don't want to drive 50 miles to the nearest grocery where they can buy baby spinach leaves (just for an example) in a bag. They want baby spinach leaves in a bag in their own neighborhood.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 May 04 - 05:48 PM

Hey Kim C. Nice yiddish!

Must be cool to live in Music City, USA!

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 04 May 04 - 07:48 PM

Smart folks don't want any of them.

Maul Wart is a disease which blights any community by sucking the life out of it! It takes your tax dollars, it closes American manufactureres of things you used only need replace every 10 years with something that you will have to replace in 10 minutes - because is was made by greed in a country called childabusegreedland.

In the old days they had a saying about this kind of thing. It ain't the roll but the quality of it.

You pays for what you gets and at Maul Wart you gets ripped off - remember falling prices for falling value!

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: dianavan
Date: 04 May 04 - 08:25 PM

I've adked this question before but have never really been answered. Isn't there some kind of law about monopolies in the U.S.??? Isn't this what those laws were intended to prevent? Don't you think the little guy deserves at least a fighting chance? I know I don't want my community ruined by a big box.

I think most of the people who want WalMart must be the kind of people who are living in isolated, monogamous relationships. They like to drive everywhere and use their cars as insulation against the outer world. They plug into their t.v. and computer as a way to socially interract with others. They are usually quite poor or have come from an impoverished background and have no critical consciousness. They strive for instant gratification. They think they are getting a deal because they cannot see the long term implications. They think that progress means moving ahead without any concern for the quality of life. They don't have many friends but its always the other guys fault. They absolutely have no sense of community. Above all, they take no responsibility for anything.

Oh, but there I go again, generalizing.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 04 May 04 - 09:43 PM

Well said, Dianavan!


This is the Australian situation at present :

" ... Anti-Competitive Conduct and Pricing :-

Alan McKenzie, spokesperson for the National Association of Retail Grocers of Australia (NARGA), was interviewed by Stephen Long on ABC Radio on 26 August 2003. He said that Woolworths and Coles Myer have the highest grocery retail market concentration in the world, approaching an unparalleled 80%; their control of petrol is about 30%, and liquor is 30­-40% of the market. In the UK, the three biggest supermarkets control less than 50% of the market; in the US, the top three control less than 25%. Nowhere else in the world do they have 30% of the petrol market. Some critics say that these lower prices won't be sustained once they squeeze suppliers' margins and force competitors out of business.


NARGA issued a media release on 17 December 2003 that announced how a recent High Court decision has dealt a fatal blow to the misuse of market power provision (section 46) of the Trade Practices Act.

Mr McKenzie writes: ""There can be no doubt that the latest decision confirms that the High Court has taken an unduly narrow view of section 46, a view that does not do justice to the parliamentary intention behind the provision.""

He goes on to state: ""Effective laws deterring abuses of market power are critical to the promotion of competition for the benefit of consumers. Unless the abuse of market power is prevented, efficient smaller players can be destroyed by larger and more powerful players with their deeper pockets and every interest in protecting any inefficient practices.""

He concludes: ""Given that a firm could engage in the same below-cost pricing or other potentially anti-competitive conduct, with or without market power, it is clear that in the High Court's interpretation of the key concept of taking advantage, there are few, if any, types of conduct that will be caught by s46, simply because such conduct can be engaged in by firms with or without market power.

Section 46 of the Trade Practices Act allows a company to fix prices below cost in order to eliminate competitors if that company does not have substantial market power.

Woolworths spent over $10 million fighting the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) in a Victorian Court over price fixing and misuse of power. One of its Safeway stores had stopped Tip Top bakeries from selling factory seconds and discounts at a stall at Preston Markets. Supermarket suppliers dropped Tip Top until small retailers ceased discounting. Woolworths CEO Roger Corbett commented: ""We don't deliberately undercut our small competitors."" If this case goes to the High Court, it will probably be overturned because they will be able to say that Safeway did not have substantial market power.

Federal Labor has said that it will amend the Trade Practices Act to prohibit predatory pricing. It highlighted the recent High Court rulings as weaknesses of the Act in dealing with predatory pricing, and cited section 50 of the Canadian Competition Act as one approach worth considering. This ruling prohibits firms from ""selling products at unreasonably low prices, having the effect or tendency of substantially lessening competition or eliminating a competitor, or designed to have that effect"". The Australian Democrats have been advocating amending the Trade Practices Act for quite a while now and are delighted that Labor sees the virtue of this policy position ... "

From Maple Street Co-op News,
February/March 2004
"We Won't Shop There - or There!"
by Lori Sturtz


and there's LOTS, LOTS more ...


Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 May 04 - 09:52 PM

dianavan, you have no idea what it is like to be an American.

Monogomous relationships?

Grow up, please.

Better yet, take a shave.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Kim C
Date: 04 May 04 - 10:02 PM

I'm not a huge fan of Wal-Mart, but...

Wal-Mart isn't a monopoly. There are plenty of other choices besides. Wal-Mart, as obnoxious as it may be, is some people's idea of the American dream: local store turned worldwide company. Not saying I necessarily agree with that, but here in the Land of Opportunity, you too have the opportunity to grow a business.

Then when you grow it and become wealthy, people will kick you in the ass and talk about what a parasite you are. Nice, huh? If you don't believe me, ask Ted Turner or Bill Gates.

Wal-Mart has stuff that people need and want at prices most people can afford. If people didn't actually shop there, they wouldn't be so huge. Don't blame them - blame the market. If you don't want to shop there, don't shop there. And yes, you do have a choice. Depending on where you live, it may be an inconvenient choice, but it's a choice all the same.

Martin, while Nashville's reputation as Music City is vastly overrated, it's a pretty fair place.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 May 04 - 10:09 PM

Kim C.

Your last post was a fresh air voice of reason that I truly appreciate.

You are a gem.
Please post more often!

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: dianavan
Date: 05 May 04 - 12:25 AM

But Martin, I am an American. I am also Canadian.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: dianavan
Date: 05 May 04 - 12:34 AM

...and Martin, I did shave both my legs and underarms. I usually do that in the Spring. I'm pretty much of a hairless wonder. Do you like me better now?

Did I forget to tell you that the shaving fashion was started by Eva Braun, Hitler's girlfriend? Seems he thought that the dark-haired, furry ones were not as evolved as the blonde, somewhat, hairless types. He liked Eva when she was silky smooth. Oddly enough, it is one of the vestiges that remain of the Nazi culture. That in itself, is enough to make most women stop shaving altogether.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 05 May 04 - 05:06 AM

At a recent meeting of the concerned citizens of Maleny, regarding the invasion of Woolworths' conglomerate, a lone voice took the microphone to expose the benefits of Woolworths coming to town.
He spoke; We listened; Quietly and attentively, allowing the freedom and the right-to-speech that our fathers and grandfathers had fought for in two World Wars.
Later last week, it all became clear.
Woolworths have signed a deal with a major petrol company (Caltex) to supply discount fuel for Woolworths customers and - wouldn't you know it? - turns out that "lone voice" owns the Caltex petrol station in town!!
(Why am I not surprised ...)

Now Martin Gibson posted on 25 April :
"True, I am also a marketing professional for a large corporation ..."
: COULD it be, that the "large corporation" he alludes to, is Wal-Mart???!!!


Cheers!
Poor Misery (Rich-Joy's partner!)

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: dianavan
Date: 05 May 04 - 02:24 PM

Martin - Since you are the marketing genius. Maybe you can tell us exactly who WalMart's target audience might be. Maybe then we can begin to understand the American consumer more accurately. This, of course, will help us to predict who will win the election.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: dianavan
Date: 05 May 04 - 03:17 PM

I meant to say target market.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Kim C
Date: 05 May 04 - 03:44 PM

I'm no marketing genius, but I'll take a stab. Considering that I've seen all types of cars from beat-up hoopties to brand new Escalades in the Wal-Mart parking lot, I'm going to guess their target market is anyone who wants to buy all their stuff in one place and spend less money on it. That's pretty broad. I see all kinds of people when I go there, including people who could easily afford to shop somewhere else but choose not to. And believe me, in the Nashville/Franklin/Brentwood/Murfreesboro quadrangle, there is absolutely no shortage of places to shop. (At one time, Murfreesboro, TN had the largest Wal-Mart Superstore in the country. That's probably changed since then.)

Diana, I am given to understand that the shaving fashion began in the 1920s with the flapper girls, since they were pretty much the first women to show their bare legs and arms (and armpits) in public. I could be wrong about that.

As far as the election is concerned, I imagine the undecided could go either way.

(Thanks Martin.) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 05 May 04 - 05:04 PM

dianavan, I do not work for Wal-Mart. I do not work in the retail industry, but I do work in a large American NYSE corporation for 20 years which is good to it's employees and pays me a nice living. I just happily shop there to save money.

Kim C. is absolutely right in her post above on who shops there. You might find that your wages just might go farther if you considered spending your money in a wiser fashion and get off of your high horse.

And Kim C. is right about the flapper girls also, who were the first real independent women in the 1920s. Their groundbreaking skirt length and American zeal for being sanitarily appealing and sleek predated that Nazi bitch. I think your Eva Braun/Hitler reference just smacked of anti-semitic undertones.

I don't hold it against you that you are Candaian, as my friend Brucie is also and he is a fine guy. Whether you were American or canadian, you still come across as a wench.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: dianavan
Date: 05 May 04 - 06:53 PM

My comment was not anti-semitic it was anti-Martinic. Do you always take comments out of context? Read the last line of that post for further clarification.

You have called me and many others a variety of names but somehow you seem to be able to justify that. Whats the difference if I decide to call you a name or label you based on your system of beliefs? I refrain from doing that, Martin, because you will just hide behind your religion and point at me and cry foul. Poor baby!

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Be careful Martin, in the future you may be the object of some pretty nasty name-calling yourself. Maybe thats why you feel so smug when you are able to do that on the internet. Would you dare to be so vile in person? I doubt it. You might think it but you are too much of a coward to ever let anyone know your opinions, face to face. The reason your capacity to care about others is so limited is that you are so needy yourself. Your mother must have been a real nightmare. If you were a child, I would have some pity but since you are just another greedy, self-serving, adult, I only despise you.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 05 May 04 - 08:37 PM

Sorry Martin--believe it or not, they have things at Target that they don't have at Walmart--You can insist all you want, but you'll still be wrong. Better clothes, for one thing.

DougR--read my posts above--I hate Walmart because the stores are dirty, the lines are long, and they don't treat their employees very well--Don't shop there because there are other places that have merchandise that is more to my taste--I like big stores, and have been known to spend time in Outlet Malls--

In the interest of full disclosure,, I once worked in the advertising department of Macy's,San Francisco--as far as Dayton-Hudson goes, I also worked in the marketing department for a very large specialty retailer(now defunct), where my boss was a marketing exec from Daytons--Of the twenty odd folks in our office, about half were musicians--

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,alexivirleo
Date: 05 May 04 - 10:05 PM

I've been trying so hard to feel compassion for Martin, I personally think he is a bit of a lost soul behind that sarcastic facade (flugelhorn - oh wow!) but; unfortunately, I must now allow my own reactive name-calling child loose! Down here in Orstraylia, we have a kind of all-purpose term, "wanker". It fits Martin admirably!

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 06 May 04 - 12:36 AM

Sadly, AlexiVirleo, I must agree.

Martin posts :
" ... the flapper girls also, who were the first real independent women ..."
Wow! SUCH an interesting "knowledge" of history he has ...

and

"Their ... American zeal for being sanitarily appealing and sleek .."
Well, I don't even want to open that can of worms!! (hopefully, Martin's analyst is already working on it ...)

and

" .. anti-semitic undertones ..."
- in Dianavan's post????????

Yes, AlexiVirleo, you're absolutely right - a real Richard Cranium ...


I didn't start this thread to get bogged down in reactive name-calling, but that's what Martin's big corporations do, isn't it? : Lead us up the garden path, into the mire, so that we lose our way until it's too late to be able to stop them from drowning us. Trouble is, some of us continually refuse to see the patterns ...


(sad)Cheers!
R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 06 May 04 - 01:14 AM

Martin generally is being deliberately cranky, with the intent of being amusing---except for the anti-semitism part--he is serious about that--

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Kim C
Date: 06 May 04 - 02:08 PM

Of course Target has some things Wal-Mart doesn't have, and vice-versa. Just like Publix has some things Kroger doesn't have, and so on and so on and so on. Once when I bemoaned the fact that I couldn't get 100% of my grocery list in one store, Mister reminded me about something called Competition. If all the stores had Absolutely Everything in One Place, they wouldn't need to compete with one another, which means they wouldn't have to keep their prices at a decent level.

As it stands, Mister and I will spend an average of $70 on a week's worth of groceries no matter where we shop. Believe it or not, the Wal-Marts in our area have a much better produce selection than most other grocery stores, and they have a few exotic fruits that are hard to find at other places. Wal-Mart also is the exclusive distributor of Rimmel cosmetics, at least around here. I happen to like Rimmel, so if I want something of theirs, guess where I have to go?

I have to say, though, that Mister says he feels like he's on an episode of The Simpsons everytime he steps into a Wal-Mart.

In a perfect world, we'd all be able to grow our own food and not have to patronize supermarkets so often. Sadly, it doesn't work that way anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 06 May 04 - 09:28 PM

Surprisingly, it often costs more to grow your own vegatables than it would to buy them. My dad, who is a compulsive gardener, pointed out that the vegatables in the supermarkets are at their cheapest just about the same time the garden veggies are harvested, so you are not saving the $2.39 per pound that the good tomatoes cost most of the year, you are saving the $.59 per pound that they cost the week yours are ready.

When you average out the cost of seeds and seedlings, fertilizer and pest treatments, the wire, the string, and the various things you need to keep the rabbits and woodchucks out, against what you actually used or gave away(no fair counting the stuff that rots on the vine, doesn't ripen before the frost, or is eaten by creatures), you pay about the same as you would if you ordered the food in a good quality restaurant--No problem, though, it is the home grown taste that we do it for, and the spiritual connection with ancient farmers--

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 07 May 04 - 11:11 PM

Martin Gibson--


Given your calm, measured approach to debate, I can't imagine why you don't sign your real name.


"I know for a fact all their (Walmart's) suppliers love them". --2 May 2004 12:30

Dead wrong. Your facts are as careful as your language. Love, spelled F-E-A R. All their suppliers fear them, since they are the 500-lb gorilla. This from that well-known leftist rag, the Wall St. Journal.


"The suppliers weren't forced to do this." 3 May 6:08

Wrong again-----if they want sizable contracts, Walmart is one of the few games in town, as a supplier knows, as they also know that if they don't, somebody else will, and the competitor's economies of scale will likely drive the first supplier out of business. That still does not stop the supplier that takes the Walmart contract from fearing Walmart's clout, especially since Walmart is likely to come back and demand yet more concessions to keep the contract. The suppliers realize their vulnerability.


For someone with such earthy (read needlessly foul) languge who claims to know something about the business world, you have an absurdly rosy view of Walmart's relations with its customers and suppliers. Costco, by the way ( as you may know, a competitor of Walmart), treats both its customers and its employees far better than Walmart--see earlier thread on Walmart where I posted comparisons from the Journal.


I love bluegrass, among many other kinds of music, and used to be in a band--scheduling rehearsals was a big problem. I'm sure you're a far better guitar player than I am. But I'd hate to try to discuss politics or anything else, with the possible exception of guitar technique, with you at a festival--fortunately festivals can be entirely focussed on music--and I'm a Republican (though for sure no Bushite).


I'm truly sorry the world has treated you so badly as to give you that huge chip on your shoulder, though I have to say I know people who are probably much worse off than you and not bitter in the least.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: sian, west wales
Date: 08 May 04 - 06:17 PM

For UK information, you might look at the New Economics Foundation website (www.neweconomics.org). There are some relevant articles on 'transforming markets' under the Economics tab. They did some good work on comparing the circulation of money within the local community on food at a supermarket and the same with a local 'veggie box' scheme. It used to be on the website; you might find it if you dig around a bit. Also Paul Allen at Centre for Alternative Technology (www.cat.org.uk) has done work on "Relocalization of the Food Chain"; I don't see the paper on the website but you could email him and I bet he'd send it to you. Similarly, Prof Kevin Morgan (http://www.cf.ac.uk/cplan/staff/morgan_k.html)has done a lot of food chain research and I have one of his papers on disc here somewhere. He, also, is quite good at sending stuff if you ask nicely.

I don't know how much good academic stuff would do you, however, as county councils tend to have anyone BUT the locals in mind and aren't reknown for listening to academic research. We're fighting Tesco's here in our west Wales town, but I reckon we'll lose. It's outside the town centre, intends to sell just about everything, will leave its town centre current site with an embargo on it against any other food retailer moving in (which could work counter to the county's own agri-food policies) and will be the biggest Tesco in Wales.

I think there is somewhere in Wales that kept a multi-national out, possibly Builth Wells. Other towns failed, however; like Cardigan and Brecon. Again, probably a lot to do with the local authority's attitude. And they are quite often just trying to do anything to meet the national government's targets for GDP growth, and hang the social costs. (Which takes one into the murky world of arguments for an indicator other than GDP in Economic Development) Also, Chief Executives make 'their name' on the size of developments they can attract to the area ... so they can move up the ladder to some bigger council and leave us with the long-term effects.

On a moderating note, however, it always pays not to make sweeping statements. For instance, Tesco is (as Super Market Chains go) the most open of those in UK to accepting local or regional produce and are also very good at paying the small producer within a reasonable billing period.

Of course, there's a whole other tangent we could follow (I think someone touched on it already). R-J, you talk about 'those of us' who move to rural areas to get away from urban rat race. Long-term rural residents aren't trying to 'get away' from it and may have different values. (and would probably be happy to spend more of their income on good food if their housing prices weren't so apalling, having been driven up by people selling up in the cities). There's been a lot of work done on this, as well; Bill Reimer's work at Concordia University in Montreal comes to mind.

sian
(who, until recently, worked in rural development)

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 11 May 04 - 02:53 AM

yes, Sian, there's more than an element of truth in your last paragraph!!!

Here in rural Australia, it's often the teens who are desperate for places like Shopping Centre developments, just to be able to "hang out" (I'm trying to recall where I used to go to do that - then I remembered that I wasn't ALLOWED to go out very often!!!!!!!!!!)

Also, people are moving Northwards to sunny Queensland, from the mega-cities of Sydney and Melbourne, where real estate prices are absolutely horrendous - this is in turn pushing our prices to ridiculous levels, unaffordable now for a large percentage of the Australian population. The gap between "rich" and "poor" is ever-widening. (probably the same in the UK and Nth America, I would think ...)

Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 May 04 - 05:16 AM

On the Channel 7 6:30 Current Affaris slot tonight, was a short article about the guy in Maleny camping up in the Bunya Pine tree on the proposed SuperMarket site..

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 12 May 04 - 05:21 PM

Guest, Ron Davies you have proven that you know absolutely nothing about business.

Yes, fear is a part of business. But the suppliers sure love the info Wal-Mart gives them on demographics and the size and scope of their segment competition. They give them market share data that they crave. I would never buy at Cost-co. No interested in buying a jar of applesauce that will last a year.

The world hasn't treated me badly at all you cowering blegrass wannabe. Right away your type is quick to obtain a degree in psychoanalysis when someone easily out debates you and makes you look bad.

Your right, I probably am a better guitarist, have a better job, a better family and home than you do.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 May 04 - 08:17 PM

And now David up the tree has made it onto the ABC National Radio news.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: dianavan
Date: 13 May 04 - 12:11 AM

Marty is being juvenile again.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 May 04 - 02:48 PM

Marty is being juvenile again? Do you mean that he stopped at some point?

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 04 - 11:25 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 14 May 04 - 12:05 PM

Sorry, everybody--our cat just posted to the thread.


First of all, "Martin", I will assume (though it may be a rash assumption), that despite your refusal to stand behind anything you ever say by giving your real name, and despite evidence on Mudcat of gigantic put-ons, that you really do exist; that utterances such as yours really can stem from the brain of a thinking individual. On the off-chance you do exist....


Your (sic) right. I am certainly impressed. You have so many strong points I can't count them all. Spelling and grammar are yet two more. I feel honored to share the same planet with you. Only your powers of logic are somewhat faulty (or perhaps nonexistent.) It's certainly too bad you can't afford an introductory subscription to the Wall St. Journal--sounds as if you could benefit if you could scrape the cash together. Of course the words sometimes are above two syllables--that might be a problem.

The Dry Branch Fire Squad has a great traditional bluegrass sound and a fantastic dry sense of humor. Ron Thomasson, lead singer (and an English teacher) once said in concert: "We believe in aggressive ignorance in bluegrass music" .   Mirabile dictu, (sorry Martin, that's Latin), there may be some people to whom that applies. I wonder if attitudes such as yours help explain why there seems to be friction between the bluegrass and old-timey communities--both being small minorities in music, you would think they would want to make common cause (how about that, I've made this a music thread).

Martin, I only hope you're as appreciated as I am in bluegrass and other circles. To ensure that you are, you might want to tone your approach down just a tad. Don't worry, I don't claim to be an expert guitarist--your fragile ego is safe with me. You may perhaps be unaware there are other instruments in bluegrass, and singing is even involved.

"Your (sic) right. I probably am a better guitarist, have a better job, a better family and home than you do" Or maybe not. Methinks he doth protest too much.

Re: psychoanalysis--Martin, psychoanalyzing you is no challenge, I asssure you. You might want to look in the mirror sometime.


Interestingly enough, you admit my point about fear. If you can't distinguish between fear and love, this says worlds about you ( and probably about other Bushites too). Suppliers may well appreciate Walmart's info on demographics etc. (though Walmart is hardly alone in providing this sort of detail--I daresay Costco does it too). This is hardly love. Martin, you'd best watch your terms and phrasing here--you're in the big leagues.

However, Martin, congratulations on keeping your usual gutter language out of your post. See, you can do it! (Hope you don't slip back into the gutter). Could this be a new trend?

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 14 May 04 - 05:56 PM

Martin's kids ask him, "Dad, if we're so well off, why do we buy all our clothes at Walmart?"

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,Smith's Lover!
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 11:00 PM

I love Smth's Food And Dug Stores! That Company is like family you feel it when you walk threw the door, they make you fel at home and with resonable prices freindly service and great deli and food items Smith's is king in the food business. Life was saddend when they left southern california it was like losing a close friend. And now all we have is some empty structures and some stores that were taken over as memories of Smith's Food And Drug Center's, Not to mention the jobs thesuper centers provided, Southern California awaits and anticipates the return of the King in food-Smith's Food And Drug Center.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 11:15 PM

I am not familiar with that chain, as we don't have them here. But we do have Jewel food stores and Walgreen drug stores (they started here in Chicago).

Fine prices and selection at Jewel and going into a Walgreen's is just such a comfortable thing to do.

Interesting to see this thread revived by someone else who counters the complete bullshit of the one who started it.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 01:30 AM

Martin, be careful of labelling those who you do not know, in circumstances you do not know, of spouting bullshit. Some may think you are just looking in the mirror too much.

I have been in the town of Maleny (Australia) and the surrounding countryside over the past thirty odd years. Everything the nice lady has personally said about the local situation is true. I do agree with her comments about Australian Big Retail Business destroying small localities. I have seen it happen personally many times, including the local Fruit & Veg driven out of Business in local Shopping Centres (Malls for the US - in Aus malls are open spaces BETWEEN shops), by price undercutting and then prices being put up when the competition has closed. At the same time, farmers are being paid less and retail prices are rising - the retail margins rising as profits rise.

You (and the person who revived this thread) are in a different country, so your personal comments may have nothing to do with the local situation.

Still waiting for some intelligent (non-gibbering!) contributions from you to the "Writing Challenge Threads".

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 09:17 PM

Robin--

I'm shocked, simply shocked to find that someone is criticizing "Martin Gibson". Don't you realize that Martin's good taste is only surpassed by his intelligence? Both, it might be said, stagger the imagination. (For more of "Martin's" strong points, see my posting of 14 May 2004 12:05 PM on this thread.)

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 10:38 PM

Ron Davies

What staggers my imagination is how you think good taste is a used rubber in your mouth. Gutter? Just wait. Get me started, Mr Douche Bag. You don't have a clue what it means to be staggered. any one who says "methinks" like you do sounds kind of like how Popeye the Sailor talks.

Your in the big leagues all right, Daivies. Big league shitheads.

You are a pompous snob whose writing really sucks.

Your posting was complete bullshit and really very self serving on your part.

Go fuck yourself with a blow torch.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 10:45 PM

Ah, "Martin", back to the gutter again. Well at least you'll be more comfortable there. Goodnight.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 10:57 PM

I'm hardly in the gutter, douchie.

I'm laughing at you from my million dollar house.

You are a girlie man, Ronnie baby. Have some quiche.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: mg
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 12:11 AM

One thing that can be done even retroactively is encouraging through tax reductions or whatever existing ugly malls to plant strips of greens or trees in their ugly parking lots..even 10% trees can make a huge difference..some parking lots, such as Shoreline city hall (near Seattle) are like parks...I think Northgate Mall is one of the worst abominations on the face of the earth...for new construction it could be easily made into part of the building code process..such and such a percentage of trees. Not everything is irreversible...a few jackhammers and a few urban foresters and change is made...mg

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 01:02 AM

Marty!

Your medications are available online!

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 11:24 AM

Guest, Your identity is not available on-line except under:

iamacocksucker.com

There you will find out who you really are and why I laugh at how you are obviously one of about 3 people who are the phoniest liars here.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 11:16 PM

It's true," Martin", some of the people around here are phony liars. That's one thing I just can't stand. I insist on only reading posts from real liars, and I think we should take a stand on this vital issue of our time. Don't you agree?

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Aug 04 - 12:26 AM

I'm with Ron.

You're no phony liar Martin.

or should that be
You're no phony, liar Martin...

Still hooked on the abusive insults, though I see Marty - if they aren't phony, maybe your alleged music ability is.

I have discovered that only the second raters in any field need to put down others - they do this because they have no real ability and are afraid that others will find this out if they don't intimidate them by spraying foul mouth abuse around.

I have always found that those with the most natural talent and ability have no need to masturbate their weeny-ego by trying to dump shit on others - they have no fear that others are better than them, and enjoy the challenge of meeting others who just may be better than them - they always enjoy the stimulation of a challenge.

To paraphrase an old song..

"Only the Phony"...

Martin, you display all the intellectual maturity of a teenager, so that's what I think you really are - just pretending to be a great musician. You have been called on some of your 'spouted facts' before.


In your Dreams, Sunshine!

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 Aug 04 - 01:09 PM

Robin--

We don't need to use foul language or any "four-letter words" on "Martin". He's vulnerable enough without it.   And, after all, he has proven himself the master of filth. Let him continue to live in the gutter by himself. If we are considered snobs for not using vulgar language, I think we can live with it, don't you?

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 28 Aug 04 - 06:12 PM

You are both girlie men.

You Ron Davies and fool troupe, are about as intellectual as roadkill. You both wouldn't last in a high school debate or on a mean city street.

As for my musical ability, you both prove to be completely ignorant as this is just a typical example of making your pompous assumptions on not knowing all of the facts.

ie. You have not heard me play or sing over the last 40 or so years.

You fools troupe display all of the maturity of a sad, bitter old man, set in your ways. You are so removed from your youthfulness, that you can only think inside your own very small box. It's the type of maturity that allows me to use shit language on you full knowing that it DOES yank your chain and will get to show how easily it is that you offend in all of your political correctness.

It's pretty entertaining.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Aug 04 - 08:12 PM

"Small things amuse small minds"

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 28 Aug 04 - 08:56 PM

Not clever

You could of at least gone, nah, han, nah, nah, nah.

It only takes a small amount of my brain power to get my point across to you, Fooly troop.

Small minds like yours are only big in their own mind.

Your impact here, is nil.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 Aug 04 - 10:06 PM

Martin--

A posting of 5 lines with no filth---you're definitely on the road to recovery. Keep it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 Aug 04 - 10:14 PM

--
However, Martin, the inference we have to draw, it seems, is that --how did it go?-- nah han nah nah?-- is the intellectual level of a response you would identify with. Perhaps that's not what you meant to say, but that is how it came out.

It would perhaps be slightly more useful to raise the level of discourse just a bit, hoping that doesn't strain you.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Aug 04 - 12:29 AM

Aw, Ron, don't strain the poor guy's brain... if that is the proper name for it.... :-) If he had half a brain it would be lonely!

"It only takes a small amount of my brain power to get my point across to you" - but it must be such a great effort without the potty words ....

Just keeping the shit out of his mouth is enough for Our Marty (hehe - the Spell checker tried to substitute Martyr!!!).

Surely, Ron, you wouldn't want to happen to Marty what happened to the constipated German Pilot - he came down in a Messerschmidt!


"Your impact here, is nil."

As I expected Marty, teaching a pig to sing is a waste of time, it just gets the teacher annoyed and the pig upset!

"No Brain - No Gain!"

:-)

Just for you Marty as you requested - stooping to your level so you CAN understand...

"nah, nah, nah, nah, nah"
(spelling corrected!)

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Ron Davies
Date: 29 Aug 04 - 08:46 AM

First of all, I again appeal for everybody to forswear vulgar language, including all "four-letter words" (that includes all scatalogical language). Martin, I hope you don't have to look that up. Using such language shows a poverty of vocabulary and of intellect. If the shoe fits....

For the rest of this post ( if you have interest), see my most recent post under the Open Letter to Nader Supporters, though it should have been in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 10:38 PM

refresh


see new thread : Is Our Community Loosing to the Corporation (can some Mudcat Elf please link to it??? - thanks!!!)


in our fight against being owned lock, stock and barrel by The Big Bastard Corporations : are we losing both the battle AND the war???
say it isn't so ...



Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Cod Fiddler
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 02:34 PM

I found out a shocking fact about supermarkets when I spoke to a producer of poultry a few weeks ago:

When you see a buy-one-get-one-free offer, it is NOT the supermarket that pays for the free item. It is the supplier! Supermarkets routinely check the account books of their suppliers to check that they will survive, though they have little right to do this. The suppliers are over a barrel - if they refuse they lose the supermarket's custom.

Agricultural producers commonly have very small profit margins - 1% is not atypical. In such a market the supermarkets are EXPLOITING their suppliers. No wonder farmers are struggling! Never mind Fair Trade in the 3rd world, it isn't fair in the UK.

Supermarkets are EVIL. Don't use them!

Richard.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Kim C
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 05:28 PM

Okay, so where do I shop then? Where I live, it's either supermarkets, convenience stores, or grow your own.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: dianavan
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 10:11 PM

Grow your own and start a co-op.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Cod Fiddler
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 01:37 PM

It's too late for your community. The life has already been sucked out of it. We're all doomed! Doomed I tell you!

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 06:51 PM

they can destroy my community anytime, I don't think anyone would notice - they'd like a new sainsburys though.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 08:18 PM

just added some parodies in the "Is Our Community Losing to the Corporation" thread - (can some Mud Elf please LINK??!!) - regarding the greedy grocery giant, Woolworths, that is destroying the rare and ancient Platypus (and our Community) in Maleny, SE Queensland in Oz.


Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 28 Oct 05 - 01:50 AM

If you wish to show some support for the valiant Communities attempting to resist the Corporate Takeovers of their towns, please consider purchasing a CD from this website :

http://www.peculiarhand.com/pages/atogm.html

For every CD sold, a proportion will go to the Community fund in Maleny :
http://www.peculiarhand.com/pages/good-reason.html

But that aside, the music is just plain good fun – and let's face it, we all need a bit of respite from the numerous negative impacts of Globalisation that bear down upon us nowadays ...


Cheers! R-J
Down Under