God wants armed nudists

Subject: B.S. God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 May 04 - 08:54 PM

OK, let me bring this up.

In the New Testement, Jesus tells his followers that they should sell there extra clothes,give the money to the poor, and go without supplies, since he will provide for them.

Just after the last supper, ( See Luke) Jesus turns to the disciples, and says "Who among you have swords?" Two of them pull out swords, and he then says o the others "Go, sell your clothes and buy swords."

I have my sword.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Pogo
Date: 28 May 04 - 09:15 PM

LOL

{OP TMI

what part of Luke?

And to add to more deep religious thoughts...

Revelation 8:1 Proof of no women in Heaven ;O)

Zechariah 5:1 First documented evidence of a food fight

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 May 04 - 09:21 PM

I think I am now a part of the tribe.

I am unemployed, can't afford clothes, and I've still got my sword from my SCA days somewhere...

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 May 04 - 09:23 PM

Luke 22:35&36


sorry about all the typos, but I NEVER said I could type. Anyway, when I go into Ordained Minister mode, I seem to make a lot more mistakes...

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 May 04 - 10:31 PM

I did that, sold my clothes, bought a sword.

Cops arrested me, took away my sword.

I told them beardedbruce told me that God wanted me to go naked and carry a sword.

Now they're looking for beardedbruce.

They did give me a nice, bright orange, jumpsuit.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Blackcatter
Date: 28 May 04 - 10:36 PM

Part of that is what St. Francis did, wasn't it?

I'm nude a lot - and I've got a quarterstaff! (Actually it's a buck and a quarter staff).

Thank you! I'm here all week!

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 28 May 04 - 10:52 PM

Armed nudists would not last long in Alaska. Ice and snow in winter, mosquitos and black flies in summer. Definitely questionable.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 May 04 - 11:01 PM

I have never stated that a religion set out for a ancient group of desert dwellers had any application to a modern person in Alaska.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 May 04 - 11:17 PM

and of course... Matthew 24:23. Seems straightforward to me- why do they keep knocking on my door?


Rapaire: Hardly a good start to your campaign. Does this mean i might not get the management position in Sewage? I was counting on that...

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 May 04 - 11:22 PM

Blackcatter:

Sorry, but we have to go with the literal words- You need to get a sword. If we use a loose interpretation, since the sword was the standard arm of the individual soldier of the time, we would need M-16s or such.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 May 04 - 11:03 AM

Beardedbruce, people have been using literal understandings of the Bible for a couple of 1,000 years now to do all sorts of very destructive and pointless things. I mention this merely as a caution... :-)

I am going to check out your quote later today and see what context it is in. I suspect it was intended by Jesus as a metaphor, not a literal instruction to his disciples regarding clothing and swords.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 May 04 - 11:17 AM

please do.


I am just relating the words of Jesus, as given in the New Testament. Feel free to twist them to mean whatever you want- that is a time-honored thing to do.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: S O P
Date: 29 May 04 - 11:23 AM

Alska Mike:

Simply avoid licking your sword.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Mark Clark
Date: 29 May 04 - 11:25 AM

Ha! Now, with Jesus in the garden, didn't Peter whip out a sword and chop off a soldier's ear? What was that about? Clearly these guys were walking around everywhere with swords. Not a group to be messed with, that's for sure.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 May 04 - 11:31 AM

I suppose that lets the Venus de Milo out then?
JGM

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 May 04 - 11:34 AM

A vile, pagan image!   :)

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 May 04 - 11:35 AM

Nice tits!
JGM

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 May 04 - 11:52 AM

33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.

34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.

35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Of course, other translations read a little differently...

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Hollowfox
Date: 29 May 04 - 11:55 AM

Well, armless nudists have the excuse that they can't pull their trousers on.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 May 04 - 11:58 AM

... and actually, I have two ( or more ) swords... But how about the rest of you?

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 May 04 - 11:59 AM

Did the disciples wear pants???

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 May 04 - 12:27 PM

Even breath can come in short pants!
JGM

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 May 04 - 12:59 PM

and the other quote...

Matthew 24:23
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

24:25
Behold, I have told you before.

24:26
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

24:27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. "

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Blackcatter
Date: 29 May 04 - 01:09 PM

Bruce - do you have 2000 year old swords or are you cheating a bit with Damascus steel or something?

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 May 04 - 01:16 PM

Nothing in the text about how old the swords have to be. I have a number, but the pair of late 19th cent. repro 14th cent hand and a half "bastard" swords are the ones I would use... a 45 inch blade helps to keep the pointy end far enough away from me.

I am still working on the purse and scrip...

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Megan L
Date: 29 May 04 - 01:17 PM

Bruce Iv'e got a tongue that wid clip cloots does that count an I'm no peelin aff even fur the wee man, to cauld and faur ower many midges. :)

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 May 04 - 02:01 PM

Well, each of us has to make our own spiritual choices...

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: robomatic
Date: 29 May 04 - 02:05 PM

Leads to re-definition of the saying:

"Don't point that thing at me"

Or maybe plurification...

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Blackcatter
Date: 29 May 04 - 02:15 PM

Well I'll keep my staff. Never been Christian (or even Jewish like Jesus) anyway.

It's always struck me odd that people who want to hang on the words of such a book. Give me Heinlein anytime.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 May 04 - 02:22 PM

Everything in excess: Moderation is for monks.



But remember what he says about sonnets......

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Blackcatter
Date: 29 May 04 - 02:40 PM

"Everything in moderation - including moderation."

            - Heinlein

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 May 04 - 02:42 PM

where is that? Mine is from the Notebooks of LL

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Blackcatter
Date: 29 May 04 - 03:04 PM

That's not all his quotes. I've got my sources.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 May 04 - 03:04 PM

Matthew 10:

5: These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7: And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8: Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
9: Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
10: Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

So, they would not have two coats, and should sell the coat to buy swords...

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 May 04 - 03:13 PM

Rapaire:Date: 28 May 04 - 10:31 PM

"I did that, sold my clothes, bought a sword.

Cops arrested me, took away my sword.

I told them beardedbruce told me that God wanted me to go naked and carry a sword."

No, I merely said that Jesus wanted you to go naked and carry a sword. Those of us with forsight have swords already.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 May 04 - 03:33 PM

Little Hawk:

"I suspect it was intended by Jesus as a metaphor, not a literal instruction to his disciples"

So, metaphorically, how would you interpret Matt. 10:10:" Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat. "

8-{E

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Strick
Date: 29 May 04 - 04:28 PM

In memory of the great, recently deceased Alan King:

You know why armies never fight naked? Where you gonna hang your canteen? Oh, yeah? For how long?

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 May 04 - 04:31 PM

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 May 04 - 04:32 PM

Well, what about Celts? the original Woad warriors...

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Strick
Date: 29 May 04 - 04:36 PM

The Celts weren't really naked. They wrapped their kilts around their forearms.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 May 04 - 04:42 PM

...and they needed bagpipes to frighten their enemies?

8-{E

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 May 04 - 06:32 PM

thread is drifting- let us get back to religion.

More of Matthew 10:

34: Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35: For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36: And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37: He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Family values.... ( and the sword)

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Blackcatter
Date: 29 May 04 - 06:36 PM

Anything that tells you what to do with said sword Bruce?

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 May 04 - 06:41 PM

still looking... Have you found anything?

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: DonD
Date: 29 May 04 - 07:30 PM

The King Kong of Peace?

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 May 04 - 07:42 PM

The last entry does not make sense to me: Care to explain what you mean?

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 May 04 - 10:52 PM

beardedbruce,

I'm currently on Levapro - could you tell me what you are on? I think I want some... :-)

Robin

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 May 04 - 11:04 PM

coreg, zocor, prinivil, spironolacetone, aspirin, and a wide variety of herbs and vitimins....

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Amos
Date: 30 May 04 - 09:58 AM

Ahhh!! Comes the light.


A

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Megan L
Date: 30 May 04 - 01:53 PM

Your sword should also be two edged and sharp


Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-­edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Strick
Date: 30 May 04 - 02:33 PM

Or the real truth is more like this:

Matthew 26:49-54
Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, "Greetings, Rabbi!" and kissed him. Jesus replied, "Friend, do what you came for." Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"

Isaiah 49:1-3
Listen to me, you islands;
hear this, you distant nations:
Before I was born the LORD called me;
from my birth he has made mention of my name.

He made my mouth like a sharpened sword,
in the shadow of his hand he hid me;
he made me into a polished arrow
and concealed me in his quiver.

He said to me, "You are my servant,
Israel, in whom I will display my splendor."

John 1:1a & 14
In the beginning was the Word...The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

Revelation 19:15
Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations...

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 May 04 - 02:48 PM

yes, but, not being God, I cannot turn my tongue into a sword...

The quote from John does not seem applicable.

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?"

Twelve legions of angels? sounds like real overkill, to replace one sword...

I am as entitled to select the quotes that support my point as anyone. But there are a lot of swords in there, aren't there...

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Megan L
Date: 30 May 04 - 02:54 PM

407 :) and no Im not such a loser that I sat counting them

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 May 04 - 02:57 PM

snd my swords are two-edged and sharp. Though again, they are mine and not God's...

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 May 04 - 03:06 PM

"God wants armed nudists".... and I have been wondering just WHAT to wear to the Diocesan Convention coming up!

Actually, armed nudists is not so far off the track. "Armed" for spiritual warfare and naked as a child, at the same time. Sword of truth, etc.... all terribly Biblical.

~Susan

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 May 04 - 03:09 PM

I meant a real sword, or two. I do not see a figurative one in the text...

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 May 04 - 03:13 PM

Ah, but that the tricky thing with Scripture. You have to balance each thing with everything else in there, and see each piece from an integrated contextual view of the while shebang. That's why proof-texting (using a concordance to find one or more "Scriptural" basis for a rigid, preciously-held personal position) is a dead giveaway that someone doesn't really know Scripture, just a pack of citations for indivdual verses. (Not what I see you doing BTW.)

~Susan

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Strick
Date: 30 May 04 - 03:15 PM

"yes, but, not being God, I cannot turn my tongue into a sword...

The quote from John does not seem applicable."

Ah, but you're very points show it's applicability. The trick is you don't need to turn you're tongue into a sword or even carry one for God to achieve his purpose. In your first quote, Jesus was speaking metaphorically, warning his disciples to expect tough times ahead. The Twelve always were a little dense, you know. When they tell Jesus that they have two swords in the following verse, I've always pictured him shaking his head in disbelief at their literalness and saying, "That is enough". In truth two swords were really more than enough. Didn't need them at all.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 May 04 - 03:23 PM

"go naked and carry a sword" = "walk softly and carry a big stick"?

~S~

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 May 04 - 03:24 PM

"In your first quote, Jesus was speaking metaphorically, "

   I am glad that you have such a knowledge of what he meant... Does he talk to you often? (as opposed to talking to the rest of us...)


Is it a metaphor because you don't want to admit that Jesus was a violent revolutionary?

Sometimes, I think that one has to accept the words as they were said, rather than as on would want them to be.

The Church made enough changes to back up their viewpoint and authority. The parts they could not change were too well know for them to alter.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 May 04 - 03:26 PM

Just wondering. Would radical feminist theology assert that the naked sword-carrier is in fact a description of male authority?

:~)

~Susan

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 May 04 - 04:08 PM

btw,

"John 1:1a & 14
In the beginning was the Word...The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us".

Isn't the "Word " a metaphor for a tapeworm? If not, why not???

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 May 04 - 04:10 PM

Given the fact that there are a whole bunch of other sacred texts we could be debating about, in addition to the Bible, this is just the beginning. There are lots more things we could argue about, believe me. There's the Book of Mormon, the Baghavad Gita, the Upanishads, the Buddhist writings, the Sikh writings, and so on, and so on, and so on. It's really endless. Oh yeah, and the Q'ran too. And then some more recent ones as well. Ever read Sri Aurobindo? No? I thought not. Very intellectual and impressive stuff, I can asssure you.

And here's the ticket: Whichever book or set of books YOU decided is "the ONE and ONLY Word of God" will depend entirely on this...where did you grow up? who did you listen to? whose word did you decide to trust on the matter? what were your cultural influences?

In other words, it's arbitrary.

Me, I think they just might all be the Word of God. I'm a bit radical, of course, and don't mind a ship that flies under multiple flags in the least. I see some good in all of them.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 May 04 - 04:11 PM

For anyone who wants to tell me what God really meant when he wrote some line in the Bible, PLEASE see my post of 29 May 04 - 12:59 PM . It will move things along a lot faster.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 May 04 - 04:13 PM

Little Hawk:

I hate to say this ( really), but I agree with you. Of course, not one of the religions I know of actually FOLLOW the word of God ( even as they see it).

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 May 04 - 04:15 PM

Given the fact that God has about a billion trillion planets to look after what makes you think he wrote one obscure religious book on this one?

Unless, of course, you are speaking in this sense: God supplies the motive force that allows every person to write...therefore God wrote all the books.

I could go for that notion.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Blackcatter
Date: 30 May 04 - 04:20 PM

You go for the notion - I'm going for a beer.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 May 04 - 04:21 PM

"Thou art God" ? Not a problem for me....

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 May 04 - 04:22 PM

beer vs notion... depends on the beer. I have a good many notions....

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 May 04 - 04:25 PM

"When they tell Jesus that they have two swords in the following verse, I've always pictured him shaking his head in disbelief at their literalness and saying, "That is enough"."

Gee, and I always pictured him muttering "Bunch of idealistic fools: How do they think we are going to get anywhere without a power base?"

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 May 04 - 06:49 PM

He obviously wasn't talking about literal swords, since he rebuked Peter for cutting the guy's ear off with one in the garden, and he then healed the ear. The swords were metaphorical.

I wonder which is the most notable holy book on Ganymede 4 or Arcturus 9 right now? It would be interesting to see what they said.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 31 May 04 - 06:50 AM

"He obviously wasn't talking about literal swords, since he rebuked Peter for cutting the guy's ear off with one in the garden, and he then healed the ear. The swords were metaphorical."

I am not so sure. Maybe he was just so digusted at Peter's incompetence with the sword. If I tell you to arm yourself for conflict, and you use that arm inappropriately, does that mean I did not tell you to arm yourself?

The swords were real. The statement is a statement of what Jesus wanted his followers to do.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 31 May 04 - 08:24 AM

Or maybe he decided that two swords were not sufficient to fight off the crowd that had shown up to arrest him.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 31 May 04 - 09:36 AM

Luke 22:

47 And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him.

48 But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?

49 When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?

50 And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.

51 And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Strick
Date: 31 May 04 - 10:52 AM

I am glad that you have such a knowledge of what he meant... Does he talk to you often? (as opposed to talking to the rest of us...)

You know, I don't have to actually have a conversation with Peter Yarrow to form the opinion that "Puff the Magic Dragon" is about nothing more than a boy and his toy.

Is it a metaphor because you don't want to admit that Jesus was a violent revolutionary?

No, just an integration of all the things He said and His actions. The only violent act in any of his bios was overturning the tables of the money changers at the Temple (though you could call withering the fig tree "violence"). Everywhere else he makes it clear that, at least on the first visit, it's not about changing the world through violence. Even his disciples wanted him to lead a revolution. He kept telling them he was, just not the kind they were expecting.

Gee, and I always pictured him muttering "Bunch of idealistic fools: How do they think we are going to get anywhere without a power base?"

More like that despite all they had seen and heard, they didn't know real power when they saw it.

John 18:36
Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: wysiwyg
Date: 31 May 04 - 11:20 AM

I was thinking yesterday that a letter from someone you know well and love dearly will have a deeper significance than one from a stranger or an enemy. Maybe this is part of the truth that without yielded belief, we do not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.... Who helps us understand what we have been taught. In any event, unless one approaches the Word as the living thing it is, and receives it in right relationship (He's God, we ain't), we are reduced to wringing the words in clenched, frustrated hands, demanding MAKE SENSE when what they actually are designed to do is make love-- to be caressed and snuggled into.

I don't know anyone in this thread well enough to know whether my comments have any relevance to what has been said, but it is a meditation that has been on my heart for some time, and so I decided to see if it could find words.

YMMV

~Susan

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 31 May 04 - 01:19 PM

"You know, I don't have to actually have a conversation with Peter Yarrow to form the opinion that "Puff the Magic Dragon" is about nothing more than a boy and his toy."


True. you are entitled to form whatever opinion you want to. But others have formed different opinions, on some topic. Otherwise, there would be not reason to question it.


"John 18:36
Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."

Which tells me that the Church has no business being involved in ant earthly kingdoms... I am afraid they have been overstepping their bounds for the last 2000 years...

WYSIWYG, I have no problem with your viewpoint. This thread is in response to individuals telling me that because they believe something that the rest of the world has to agree. I have read the New Testament entirely, twice- and continue to read various translations as I find them. I agree with LH (shudder) that most, if not all of the religious texts used as a basis for various religions have some aspect of "truth", if only as a set of rules for dealing with one's fellow humans. I am glad that you have found whatever you have found in the Bible.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Strick
Date: 31 May 04 - 02:16 PM

True. you are entitled to form whatever opinion you want to. But others have formed different opinions, on some topic. Otherwise, there would be not reason to question it.

But I do rely on good authorities when I can.

"No, "Puff, the Magic Dragon" is not about marijuana, or any other type of drug. It is what its writers have always claimed it to be: a song about the innocence of childhood lost."

Puff the Magic Dragon - snopes.com

Which tells me that the Church has no business being involved in ant earthly kingdoms... I am afraid they have been overstepping their bounds for the last 2000 years...

You just need to read some of the other parts to see that's not entirely true.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 31 May 04 - 02:43 PM

The problem that I see is that NONE of the versions of ANY religious text have been written by God/Goddess(s). They are all written by humans, each with his/her own axe to grind. I was shown a Bible, and told it was the literal word of God- It was printed in 1902, in Philadelphia.... Another was printed in 1830, and had a bunch of different words. It, too, was the literal word of God. So, If I write my own, can I claim it is the literal word of God, and demand that everyone act according to what is written? Are you going to tell me that those other people were "inspired" by God, but I could not be?

Do you know what they do to people who listen to the voice(s) in their heads, and do what they are told?

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 May 04 - 02:59 PM

elect them to parliament....?

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 31 May 04 - 03:06 PM

Perhaps, in some places... Here they like to use ECT.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 31 May 04 - 03:30 PM

"Oppose laws"

Which tells me that the Church has no business being involved in ant earthly kingdoms... I am afraid they have been overstepping their bounds for the last 2000 years...

"You just need to read some of the other parts to see that's not entirely true. "

What right has any religion to oppose (or encourage) laws that apply to non-members of their faith? Is it moral to apply my set of standards, from my religion, to the laws that are for all citizens? They have the right to do whatever they like to their own members- that is what being a member of a religious group means. BUT, they have no right to push laws that limit the freedoms of people not of their faith.

And yes, I object to the (defacto) laws forbidding the use of cars in some places in Israel during the Sabbeth.



If I am a member of a group that believes that all members should tithe, do I have the right to demand that non-mambers tithe, and work for laws to enforce that? If you think so, start sending me money.

(As an ordained minister, I will even let you write it off as a tax deducttion- though the government might not. But then, I have a Higher Authority...)

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 04 - 03:41 PM

I'm curious, BB, why does agreeing with me about something cause you to shudder? :-) I'd really like to know. (Is it because of politics or UFO's? Or is it a William Shatner-based issue?)

Anyone who believes in a God at all is eager to know what eternal truths might emanate from that God. Accordingly, they usually rely on the opinions of other people...people whom they trust...as to WHERE those truths might be found. This is how people in a Christian civilization end up going to the Bible for "the Word", while people in a Muslim civilization end up going to the Q'ran, and people in a Hindu society end up going to the Baghavad Gita, and Bahai's end up going to all of the above...but with special emphasis on the more recent writings of Baha'Ullah and his family.

The wisest people I have ever had the good fortune to meet find the eternal truths in all of those sources mentioned above (and in many others), while not being exclusive about the matter. This results in people who do not fight religious wars, do not persecute people for belonging to another faith, and find some goodness in all people regardless of their outward beliefs.

A prophet will always speak to people in the vernacular of their time, according to the expectations of their time. Translations of his or her words several thousand years later are easily misinterpreted. I'd say, pay close attention to the behaviour of the prophet if you want to get the message. Jesus didn't attack people with swords. He didn't harm people. He healed them. He showed great compassion. He rebuked those doing the most evil things, but he did not harm them in any way. That's a powerful demonstration of enlightenment.

It can easily be seen that if all people were to behave similarly to his example the World would be a much better place for it and we would not be experiencing wars, crime, and other such problems. We would be a peaceful community of brothers and sisters living in equality, and sharing what we had with one another. That's something worthy of aspiring to. The greatest victory is the one which enables all participants to win.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Amos
Date: 31 May 04 - 03:52 PM

If I were a member of the church shown in BB's link I would come to too conclusions very rapidly.

One is that some people want to control, and have no interest in religious issues, but are purely involved in politicizing the group for personal gain.

The other is that anyone who would kowtow to that kind of authoritarian dictatorial Grundyism lacks the spine to stand up for their own freedoms, or mine, and I didn't need them in my life.

I would then abandon such a group post-haste and find a better way to pursue my religious interests than dancing with a bunch of control-freaks.

The Bible has nothing to do with it. It is riddled with contradictions requiring subtle and flexible justifications as interpretations, or requiring outright rejection. It is a hodgepodge of viewpoints. The very thought that it could be dictated by a single, higher, spiritual viewpoint is close to ridiculous, sorry. It is much too internally inconsistent to be the product of a single Consciousness, no matter how grandiose.

A

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 31 May 04 - 03:56 PM

Amos:

On this I agree with you 100%

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 04 - 03:59 PM

Yes, but is it a Shatner-based issue?!!!

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 31 May 04 - 04:10 PM

8-{E

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 04 - 04:12 PM

Is that supposed to be a face with a mustache? Or does it mean "Eat me!"? Seriously, I don't know what you mean by that symbol.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 31 May 04 - 04:14 PM

my emoticon... glasses and beard.



It means I do not choose to make a reply to your question at this time.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 04 - 04:15 PM

Amos - Well, it could be from a single higher source...but filtered through the very different perceptions and personalities of the various writers...resulting in various conflicting pieces of information. For instance, I've always found Paul's writings to be quite peculiar in some respects. I get the feeling he did not like women very much, for example. I think Paul hijacked the whole religion, in fact.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 04 - 04:16 PM

Oh. Okay, BB, understood.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: GUEST,God
Date: 31 May 04 - 05:10 PM

This is God. None of you speaks for me.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 04 - 05:21 PM

Nice to see you back, God.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Bill D
Date: 31 May 04 - 05:41 PM

that's not God...It's some other Supreme Being using his name!
   Hmmmff! You think we smart Mudcatters can't see through cheap tricks like that?

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 04 - 05:46 PM

Such as...?

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Amos
Date: 31 May 04 - 06:22 PM

LH:

See?? My remarks are only minutes old and you're leaning over backwards parsing complex justifications out of thin air. Get back, man -- it's a trap.

A

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 04 - 06:29 PM

Having been adversely affected (NOT effected) by "authoritarian dictatorial Grundyism" when I was young and sensitive, Amos, I know exactly what you mean.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Pogo
Date: 31 May 04 - 09:35 PM

SO BB what are you an ordained minister of?

As for Paul, LH yeah I'd agree he was pretty old fashioned in his views but then he was a man of his times and we can't really make a completely fair judgement of the fellow by 21st century standards. He still remains one of me favorites. He did have such a lovely way with words in other respects :)

2 Corinthians 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

Really so far as the Bible goes yes it does have many mistakes and contradictions. I still believe it to be written under the divine inspiration of God...but I take into consideration that those who wrote it were still only human and it has gone through a lot of revisions and such over the years.

If you focus solely on the flaws you overlook the beauty of the gem.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Amos
Date: 31 May 04 - 09:45 PM

Admiring a gem is a fine and upright thing to do and it compliments both the admirer and the jeweler.

Worshiping a gem is asinine.

A

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Bill D
Date: 31 May 04 - 09:47 PM

Couldn't God have 'inspired' someone to correct the worst mistakes by now? Sure has been a lot of blood shed over varied interpretations.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 04 - 09:55 PM

That has probably happened, Bill. There are alternative versions of the story, such as the book I mentioned before, "The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ". It's very much worth reading, I can assure you, and it presents what is to me a much more believable and complete account of Jesus' life. It was written in the 1800's. It will, however, be dismissed out of hand by most Bible readers, because it isn't the version they are familiar with, and it wasn't written 2000 years ago.

You see, God can inspire whatever he wants...but does that mean most people will ever read it? Or believe it? Ha!

The whole story of creation is written in Nature. Still, how many people see it or recognize it?

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 04 - 10:00 PM

Put it this way, Bill...you build a sacred shrine or a healing center and how many people will come? A few.

You build a casino and how many people will come? A few million.

That tells you what is going on in this World in a nutshell. Don't be surprised that the errors have not been corrected. Whether they get corrected or not depends on people's use of their own free will, and most of them would rather use it for something like gambling or watching football games.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Pogo
Date: 31 May 04 - 10:05 PM

True on both posts Amos and BillD...and from the different varieties of the Bible that seem to be coming out nowadays Bill...

...well...who knows? :)

They've started piecing together the fragments of the Dead Sea Scrolls from what I've heard...there'll be another Bible.

As with any writing that deals with sacred matters I guess it depends the attitude you have while you read it. If you read it with the sincere purpose of bringing yourself closer to an understanding of higher matters, then well that's what you get out of it. If you read it solely for the purpose of historical interest then you will hopefully recieve an better understanding of history. If you read it to find out every single thing that is wrong with it or doesn't make sense then well you will find what you seek I guess.   

I consider the scriptures sacred and worthy of deep respect but because I know they speak of God. Just my view on things :)

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Pogo
Date: 31 May 04 - 10:07 PM

LH indeed :)

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 04 - 10:08 PM

That's an excellent point, Pogo, and I agree with it wholeheartedly. You get what you look for when you read a sacred text. "Seek and ye shall find." (exactly what you are seeking)

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 31 May 04 - 10:42 PM

Strick claimed as follows:

The only violent act in any of his bios was overturning the tables of the money changers at the Temple (though you could call withering the fig tree "violence").

Then we have the incident of the Gadarene swine. In order to carry out some mental therapy he destroyed some farmer's entire herd of pigs. I tend to see that as an act of violence.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Pogo
Date: 31 May 04 - 11:05 PM

hmmm...but technically you also could say that the demons he cast out destroyed the pigs...they just asked Jesus if they could go into the pigs since I guess they were desperate for any kind of body they could get their mitts on.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 04 - 11:07 PM

Not so. He simply cast a whole bunch of demons out of a guy, the demons went into the swine, and the swine panicked and ran into the water and drowned themselves. That's not deliberate violence, it's an unexpected side effect, that's all. The swine might just have well run away from the water, after all.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 04 - 11:10 PM

Right again, Pogo.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Jun 04 - 10:45 PM

Couldn't God have 'inspired' someone to correct the worst mistakes by now?

That's why we have Bible and theology and other sortsa perfessers, so they can argue over who is correcting whom, but see it would not matter if any of them were actually right, i terms of ending controversies-- the whole thing about prophets is no one in their time or place believes them!

I just tell people this-- if your efforts to persuade have not borne good fruit, SOMEbody in the discussion isn't being what they say they mean to be, and usually it's TWO somebodies, not just one of them.

~Susan

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 04:45 AM

At the naturist clubs that Essex Girl and I go to, all the men seem to be equipped with "weapons" - some larger than others. Most of the women seem to have suitable sheaths for said weapons.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 08:42 AM

but did they "buy" them, as per Scripture? Or were they gifts from their parents?


" the whole thing about prophets is no one in their time or place believes them!"

So, since no-one on Mudcat believes me when I say there are WMD in Iraq, I could be a prophet?

                               8-{E



"I just tell people this-- if your efforts to persuade have not borne good fruit, SOMEbody in the discussion isn't being what they say they mean to be, and usually it's TWO somebodies, not just one of them."


I am not sure that I understand this: Is it not possible for different people to have a different understanding of something, based on each person's own experiences and beliefs?

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 10:29 AM

Is it not possible for different people to have a different understanding of something, based on each person's own experiences and beliefs?

Quite right, bb... I was a bit carried away about the precise point I wanted to make. To tailor it to your question, I would say this-- the "different understanding" due to view and experience is one thing, and the conflict that comes instead of peaceful mutual regard and curiosity is something else. That's what I see happening far too consistently, and what has been much on my mind of late as I lead a group of layfolk wrestling with all of this stuff.

Another thing I was thinking about yesterday was this-- I don't want a God that I can understand. I want one that can understand ME. To do that S/he/it would have to be bigger than I, more patient, more tolerant, more loving than I.

A God I could understand would be small enough to sit on a shelf. A God that could understand me--well it would be big enough to encompass not only me but every other human bean in all our endless "me-me-me" variety over all time. I'd rather sit on His/her/its shelf!

"Big"? Well, we have a parallel for this in human relationships and dealings. Say I do a thing that hurts someone else. Instead of lashing out, say that person comes over and gives me the hand of friendship. This causes me to feel differently, and perhaps I confront a thing I need to change in myself, for love of that person. In human terms, we would say that the person who lashes out is a small person, and that it's "mighty big" of the one who chooses to be a friend even when entitled to feeling wronged.

The God I know says he's mighty big enough to be God over not only all humankind, and the creation we see His hand in, but all the other gods-- to be the higher power no matter how high we set the ceiling of our understanding. Now, that's gonna be just too damn big and powerful for any one of us to totally understand. How we gonna understand who She was in another time and culture other than our own present-time, for one thing?)

So I learn to live with Mystery-- and I reap the harvest of doing it. I get to plateaus of newer, higher understanding by being willing to allow the mystery NOT to make me afraid, but to enjoy Its operation.... each higher plateau of understanding makes a new place where I can look further up, and damn if I don't eventually get up there and see it for myself. Each view is different once reached, than it looked from below, and I look up, again....

So to me, any one thing I do not presently understand just makes a profitable topic for calm meditation.

I'm not in a hurry to nail it all down so I can understand it... I don't mind as much anymore if others around me don't understand what I say about it. I much prefer the quiet chat on a long drive or around a campfire, with folks also climbing up the mountains.

~Susan (still typo'ing without bifocals)

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 10:45 AM

I have no problem with a God of that size- My objection is to those people who tell me how to act, what to think, and what to feel because "God" told them to. If I do not agree that the Bible is more than the tribal myths and history of one group in one place, with large amounts of editing over the years by those in power in the attempt to control peoples actions and thoughts, why does that make me less moral? WHy can't I be judged by others on my actions, my treatment of others, and the goals that I work for?

I do not know if here is a "God"- Can you define what that term means? An old Caucasian man on a throne, watching each of us, and punishing "sin"? The entire Universe, as a single, living entity? The aliens who have a higher technology?


My major objection is the deification of a book, written, edited, altered, translated and interpreted by humans as being "Holy".

If one chooses to believe that, just try reading what is in it:

Matthew 24:23
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
24:25
Behold, I have told you before.
24:26
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
24:27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. "

IF I believed it was the word of God, here he is telling me not to believe all those trying to tell me to believe it.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 11:23 AM

"I just tell people this-- if your efforts to persuade have not borne good fruit, SOMEbody in the discussion isn't being what they say they mean to be, and usually it's TWO somebodies, not just one of them."


If you are trying to persuade someone of something that is not true, you will encounter very similar phenomena to those you encounter trying to communicate with someone who isn't really communicating. Viz, a decrease of understanding and an inflexibility of "space".   In live communication the "sense of space" increases.

A

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 12:15 PM

Amos, the "good fruit" is not always agreement.

bb, I dunno that I have anything terribly useful on each of your points. Let me see if I can address them singly.

My objection is to those people who tell me how to act, what to think, and what to feel because "God" told them to.

Well, my first thought was, what are you doing listening to people who tell you how to act? My second thought was, Ouch! It sounds like you ran into small people with yet smaller concepts of God.

If I do not agree that the Bible is more than the tribal myths and history of one group in one place, with large amounts of editing over the years by those in power in the attempt to control peoples actions and thoughts, why does that make me less moral?

It does not make ME see you as less moral; I can't speak for folks who would say that it does; and since I don't care to spend a lot of time with folks who make that kind of assumption about people, I can't say I really know what they are thinking or how their thought process got that way. Except for seeing that something must have hurt them into that narrowness of thinking, all I see from that attitude is that they are not yet what they say they mean to be.

WHy can't I be judged by others on my actions, my treatment of others, and the goals that I work for?

The paradigm of judgment here is not necessary.... neither self-judgment, judgment by others based on your beliefs, nor judgment by others based on your goals and actions.... you have complete flexibility of viewpoint. If you take your attention away from the judgmental aspects of an interaction, including whatever is judgmental within yourself, and inner fear of same--- be the bigger person, to use the language I used-- what might be possible?

I do not know if there is a "God"- Can you define what that term means? An old Caucasian man on a throne, watching each of us, and punishing "sin"? The entire Universe, as a single, living entity? The aliens who have a higher technology?

What (Who) I can say that I know will be of no use to you, absent the openness TO know... the openness to being completely surprised by someone else on the other end of a line that has only been dead or full of static. My own path to that openness may be of no value to you, but what I did was simply allow myself to contemplate who and what God said he was, Biblically. The rest flowed out of that. I was highly resistant, myself. Nobody was gonna talk ME into all that hooey!

My major objection is the deification of a book, written, edited, altered, translated and interpreted by humans as being "Holy".

I can't agree that deification of the book makes sense either, and that's not at all how I see it. I would have to think some more about a good answer for this one, but it wold be about seeing how God works in and through all of his creation, including people as individuals and people as groups.

If one chooses to believe that, just try reading what is in it...

I would have to spend some serious time studying all that I could know about these passages, to speak to your point on them. But not having done that, my instinct would be that their context should shed some light and lead to a different understanding.

A thought I heard recently that took root but which has not yet resulted in an articulable meditation is: God is not the author of confusion, and that whatever confuses me might resolve if I start from that basis.

The more I get to hear what others think and feel, the more I appreciate the Anglican heritage that encourages me to really think about my spiritual life and all it entails. I'm not much of a fan of organized religion as an institution, but I'm lucky to benefit from the institution's efforts to participate in the revealing of truth, over time.

So it works for me-- really well, with much good fruit along the way. It CAN work, and without that judgement thing taking up too much attention or energy.   

YMMV. YPMV. (pronouns)

I'm enjoying talking with you anyhow! :~)

~Susan

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 01:23 PM

The entire Universe as a single living entity sounds about right to me...

WMD's in Iraq? Well, of course there are...ever since the US military arrived! :-) They are the World's number one stockholder in WMD's, don't forget. They take 'em wherever they go. Israel also has a stockpile of undeclared WMD's sufficient to roast all the wieners you've got and then some!

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 01:34 PM

Agreement was not the point in my post, either. But never mind. What (Who) I can say that I know will be of no use to you, absent the openness TO know... the openness to being completely surprised by finding oneself on the other end of a line that has only been dead or full of static.

A

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 02:53 PM

LH:

But you keep seem to forget that the UN ( remember them) ONLY PROHIBITED IRAQ from having WMD. But that has been stated in the other thread(s). But if you acknowledge that I am right, I must not be a prophet...

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 02:59 PM

Even if you were, BB, we wouldn't notice it, according to the usual rules...

A

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: GUEST,8=0)==
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 03:37 PM

Q What do you call nudist with an IQ of 180
A Smarter than the average bare. Phonetics Ch1 V1.
8<}=

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 03:49 PM

Well, BB, it goes this way: Prophets are generally ignored or not believed by the vast majority of people in their own time...BUT...they are recognized and believed by a few people. This is the usual rule. Then those few succeed over time in getting other people interested in the prophet's teachings and they gradually build a strong following.

So whether people believe you or don't believe you doesn't prove a darned thing one way or another!!!! Life's tough, ain't it? :-)

Now there have been some prophets, too, who were tremendously successful in their own time and WERE believed by a lot of people. Mohammed, for instance.

So any blanket statement about the matter is going to be wrong part of the time.

As for the U.N., what do I give a fig what they said about Iraq? They've passed rulings against Israel that were not responded to a number of times, and the USA has not yet invaded Israel to "enforce the will of the U.N." Ha! I laugh. The USA was enforcing its own will, not that of the U.N.

The U.N. is a virtually toothless and often craven political entity, not an instrument of world justice. Like all political entities it is subject to lobbying of various sorts by its major financial backers, depending on the situation. It is controlled by the security council, which is controlled by a few major powers...it does not effectively represent the nations of the World in an equal manner, although it pretends to. It does give them a place to talk, though, which is better than nothing.

Iraq's status as a regional military threat ended in 1991. They never had a status as more than a regional military threat, and were certainly no threat to the USA at any time whatsoever.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 03:53 PM

The U.N. is a virtually toothless and often craven political entity, not an instrument of world justice.

Now, LH. Don't be judgemental!

A

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 04:50 PM

"Iraq's status as a regional military threat ended in 1991. They never had a status as more than a regional military threat, and were certainly no threat to the USA at any time whatsoever. "

I do not agree with this statement.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 05:49 PM

BB:

What do you mean exactly?

A

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 06:15 PM

You made an unsubstatiated statement that I do not agree with.

It ain't so.

I was trying to be polite, since you seem to think that your idea of what should be must be true.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 06:54 PM

The statement you quoted was not mine. What part of it do you disagree with? And why?

A

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: 42
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 07:09 PM

Just to be the canine equivalent of Errol Flynn...are there any other kind of nudists?

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 07:16 PM

"Iraq's status as a regional military threat ended in 1991."

So the us forces taht invaded in 2003 met no resistance?


" They never had a status as more than a regional military threat, "

Agreed, only because they did not have transportation to be global.


"and were certainly no threat to the USA at any time whatsoever. "

IF there were WMD, as were discovered by both the UN inspectors and the US troops, this is blatently false. Anyone who can gas 100,000 + of his own people is a credible threat to the US.

You did say any time whatsoever.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Jun 04 - 12:12 AM

Sure thing, BB. I didn't think you'd agree with me. :-) You enjoy your opinion, and I'll enjoy mine. There are already 800 dead Americans and maybe 20,000 wounded who would most likely be fine if they hadn't invaded Iraq...and these are the early days...but, man, we will never agree on this war and I know it. C'est la vie!

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 05:07 PM

Yes, but if I am wrong we have 800 dead Americans... If you are wrong we have millions of dead Americans.


Not much vie at all...

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 05:38 PM

Good one Bruce.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Pogo
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 09:18 PM

*sigh*

I hear sounding brass and tinkling cymbals. And when I start hearing musical instruments urinating that's a baaaad sign

C'mon folks...let's get back to more theological discussion...like being nudists for God for pity's sake

;OP {OD

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 01:45 PM

any chance of getting back on track in this thread?

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 01:47 PM

I have it on good Authority that He also wants fully-clothed pacifists, so no worries.

~S~

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 01:54 PM

and where does it say that? (grin)


In fact, I think that ANY point of view can be supported by direct quotes from whatever religious text one cares to look at. There are ALL written down and translated by (imperfect) human beings, each with his/her own predjudices and biases. Thus, the use of direct quotes is NOT a vilid argument that that Almighty ( in whatever form) has stated any preference about anything.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 01:58 PM

So BB, what do you consider "the track" this thread is supposed to get back on, anyhow?

~S~

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 03:44 PM

How can the Infinite want anything? You have to lacking something already in order to want it, and you cannot lack anything when you are infinite. :-)

If people say God wants something, what they are really saying is that they want it.

What I just said will not seem credible if you think God is only existing "out there" somewhere at a separate distance from you. If He/She was by definition "out there somewhere" then He/She would not be infinite, because to be infinite means "in here" as well as "out there". It means: everywhere simultaneously.

My conclusion: God does not give a hoot about armed nudists. :-)

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 03:51 PM

God wants what He wants....if you don't know what He wants then seek it! God wants YOU! to be there for Him. Seek and ye shall find!.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 04:04 PM

Well, I won't argue with that... :-)   I certainly want God, that's for sure. I mean, I want conscious union with God, all the time.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 04:11 PM

Little Hawk....you seek God which is all He wants.............what about others who post here?.......May the Lord Bless you all whatever.
Best wishes, Mike.