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BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque

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GUEST 09 Jun 04 - 07:01 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Jun 04 - 07:05 PM
Stilly River Sage 09 Jun 04 - 07:11 PM
GUEST 09 Jun 04 - 07:25 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Jun 04 - 07:29 PM
Stilly River Sage 09 Jun 04 - 07:32 PM
GUEST 09 Jun 04 - 07:34 PM
GUEST 09 Jun 04 - 07:35 PM
GUEST 09 Jun 04 - 07:40 PM
GUEST,Jaze 09 Jun 04 - 08:02 PM
GUEST 09 Jun 04 - 08:09 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Jun 04 - 08:09 PM
Blackcatter 09 Jun 04 - 08:16 PM
GUEST 09 Jun 04 - 08:18 PM
Stilly River Sage 09 Jun 04 - 08:21 PM
GUEST 09 Jun 04 - 08:23 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 09 Jun 04 - 08:35 PM
GUEST 09 Jun 04 - 08:36 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 09 Jun 04 - 08:40 PM
GUEST 09 Jun 04 - 09:06 PM
Bill D 09 Jun 04 - 09:11 PM
GUEST 09 Jun 04 - 09:24 PM
Sorcha 09 Jun 04 - 09:34 PM
Stilly River Sage 10 Jun 04 - 12:06 AM
GUEST 10 Jun 04 - 12:13 AM
Stilly River Sage 10 Jun 04 - 12:39 AM
GUEST 10 Jun 04 - 12:40 AM
GUEST 10 Jun 04 - 12:49 AM
Blackcatter 10 Jun 04 - 01:14 AM
GUEST 10 Jun 04 - 06:38 PM
Greg F. 10 Jun 04 - 06:51 PM
GUEST 10 Jun 04 - 07:07 PM
The Fooles Troupe 10 Jun 04 - 08:05 PM
Uncle_DaveO 11 Jun 04 - 11:12 AM
Stilly River Sage 11 Jun 04 - 05:06 PM
Greg F. 11 Jun 04 - 06:49 PM
GUEST 12 Jun 04 - 10:00 AM
Greg F. 12 Jun 04 - 10:42 AM
GUEST 12 Jun 04 - 11:06 AM
Greg F. 12 Jun 04 - 02:25 PM
Stilly River Sage 12 Jun 04 - 02:34 PM

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Subject: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 07:01 PM

It was noted in another thread that, despite the hagiography being created of Reagan as the greatest/most popular president of the 20th century (despite the polls that prove quite the opposite). The historic and contemporary polls show that Kennedy wins that mantle by a landslide. Of course, I attribute that to a certain extent to his assassination, but also to his youth, vigor, optimism, and the fact that he was the first non-WASP ever elected president.

It certainly seems to me that the Reagan and Republican handlers who planned and are orchestrating this state funeral are desperately trying to cast Reagan in that very same mold.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 07:05 PM

But they won't have General De Gaulle striding along making all the other heads of state look like hobbits. I suppose there will be some heads of state.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 07:11 PM

There isn't a lot of precedent to follow--and I didn't pay attention when Nixon died (1994). Since he resigned they must have let his family take care of everything. Truman was 1972, Johnson 1973. It has been a while.

The first big state funeral was when Lincoln was assassinated, and they did a story about it on NPR this evening. I remember hearing that Jackie Kennedy had her staff rapidly research that procession and funeral for JFK.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 07:25 PM

Well, all the G8 leaders will be there I think, because they are "already in town" so to speak--they are meeting in GA. right now.

But this funeral doesn't stand a chance of matching the Lincoln state funerals and mourning rituals (the big daddy of US state funerals). Not only did Lincoln lie in state in the Capitol, but the long train ride that carried him back to Springfield, IL took a REALLY long time (over a month I think). Anyway, at each stop they would roll the casket off the train, and thousands came to view his casket, attend the memorial services.

I also don't understand something about this funeral--Nancy Reagan is standing and walking alone with a single soldier/escort, without their children, who are being kept out of all the ceremonial parts (ie just now as they did the 21 gun salute). She is standing on the Capitol stairs, looking frail, pathetic, and alone, watching the casket be brought in, while the Reagan children are already inside with the other members of the audience (Congressional and administration leaders mostly) in the Rotunda.

It is clear in this drama, that in death, just as in life, Nancy Reagan fully intended to be seen as the "star actor" in Reagan's life. This is a great contrast to the Kennedy funeral, where Jacqueline, the two small children, the entire Kennedy clan, and most of the Washington establishment that was allowed to do so, walked behind the horse drawn carriage carrying the casket as part of the funeral cortege. This is a much more Protestant looking sort of funeral along the lines of the Humphrey state funeral with no one walking, the limos, etc.

This family has been mostly estranged all the Reagan childrens' adult lives, so watching this obvious and painful separation of Nancy and the children one last time does bring all the separateness and alienation that the country witnessed between Nancy and Ronald the parents, from their children. The pundits rarely commented upon the Reagan's obsessive and jealous exiling of their children from their stage, but here it is unmistakable.

Patty and Ron both opposed their father's politics and policies, and were reviled by the Republican party (especially Ron, the dancer). The daughter who was desperate for his father's attention and a Republican party darling, Maureen, died of cancer a number of years ago. Also, no grandchildren in this drama either. Just the old widow and her Confederate hero, apparently--trying to cast themselves in the presidential drama of King Arthur's Kennedy court.

By contrast


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 07:29 PM

I suppose, if they had the bigwigs walking, like at JFK's sending off, the security people would have kittens


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 07:32 PM

Watching those guys carry the casket up the stairs (it's on the news hour--hard to avoid watching them carry the casket up the stairs) I wonder if there's a protocol to take a rest along the way? In all of the time it is taking them to move it from the portico into the rotunda, it must be heavy. Do you suppose there is, as when informally moving a heavy chest of drawers, a signal for resting it on a corner before dropping it?

"Put it down--my fingers are breaking!"

The gravity of the situation must make that box all the heavier.

The rotunda is a beautiful room. But I'm turning off the program now, because the zealots are about to start speaking.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 07:34 PM

"There isn't a lot of precedent to follow..."

??????

I think you need to brush up on your state funerals in the Capitol Rotunda history there, SRS. There is PLENTY of precedent to follow. It is only a presidential state funeral that hasn't been held in over thirty years. But there have been many, many state funerals where the deceased has laid in state in the Capitol rotunda, including the Unknown Soldier from the Vietnam War, former VP Hubert Humphrey, and FBI director J. Edgar Hoover.

Two DC police officers shot down in 1998 while protecting the Capitol also lay in state there.

One of the great things about the US, really. We allow "the common citizen" to lay in state in the nation's Capitol rotunda too, not just the high up mucky mucks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 07:35 PM

BARF!!!! Cheney is at the right hand of Nancy!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 07:40 PM

Some interesting presidential funerary history from an AP article currently circulating online:

"The first presidential state funeral was for William Henry Harrison.

He caught a cold during his inaugural address in 1841 and died of pneumonia 30 days later, becoming the first president to die in office.

Alexander Hunter, a Washington merchant, was commissioned to put on a first-of-its-kind American ceremony.

Hunter draped the White House in black. Official buildings and many private households followed suit, starting a now-lost tradition that was repeated at Lincoln's funeral 25 years later.

For Harrison, Hunter ordered a curtained and upholstered black and white carriage, which was drawn by black-clad horses, each accompanied by a black groom dressed and turbaned entirely in white. Along the side marched white pallbearers, dressed in black.

Before Harrison, the funerals of former presidents saw little pomp in the capital. Numerous ceremonies were held across the country for George Washington after his death Dec. 14, 1799, but his funeral was a local affair at Mount Vernon, Va."

While channel surfing, I heard one of the talking heads say that FDR never had a state funeral.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: GUEST,Jaze
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 08:02 PM

While I think he deserves a respectful funeral since he was the president, I'm a little confused on the "riderless horse"issue. It's supposed to symbolize a fallen leader. HE DIED OF OLD AGE!!! almost twenty years after he was president. I realize for Nancy the world began and ends with him but come on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 08:09 PM

Republican only eulogies, apparently. And piss poor orators, to boot. Cheney, Hastert & (R) Senator Ted from Alaska. ZZZZZZ....

And besides the appallingly dull and politically partisan eulogies, it must really suck to be there, considering nobody can SIT DOWN!!! There are no friggin' chairs!

More presidential funerary history trivia--

Eisenhower first laid in repose for 28 hours at the National Cathedral after a small, private ceremony for the family. He was then caissoned down Constitution Ave to the Capitol rotunda, where President Nixon delivered the eulogy, and the body laid in state until the following day. Then, it was back to the National Cathedral for the public funeral service, and on to Union Station. The funeral train took two days to get to Abilene, where he is buried at his library.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 08:09 PM

Maybe they should have a riderless elephant when it's a Republican, and a riderless donkey when it's a Democrat...


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: Blackcatter
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 08:16 PM

Well at least Reagan was a horseman - that at least counts for something. Unlike many, those were his actual boot on the horse. I have little respect for the man, but I am also a horse rider and I thought that was a nice aspect.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 08:18 PM

Pretty damn dull funeral, if you ask me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 08:21 PM

Guest, I don't need to brush up on any history. There isn't a lot of precedent to follow. I wasn't talking about any OTHER kinds of state funerals, just those of ex-presidents. And there haven't been many of those lately.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 08:23 PM

President George Washington died on December 14, 1799 at the age of 67. Just before he died, he instructed his private secretary: "Have me decently buried; and do not let my body be put into the vault in less than three days after I am dead." We cannot be sure whether Washington was allowing time for his family to mourn, or whether he had a fear, common at that time, of being interred alive.

Because Washington's death occurred before the embalming process was developed, his body was preserved for the funeral rituals by placing it in Mount Vernon's frigid drawing room. His mahogany casket was made by Joseph and Henry Ingle, who operated a furniture, cabinet and undertaking business in Alexandria, Virginia.

Word of Washington's death was spread by messengers and the mail service. In those pre-TV and Internet days, many Americans would learn of Washington's death many weeks after the funeral and entombment were over.

On December 18, Washington's funeral procession -- cavalry, infantry and guards, a Masonic band, clergy, Washington's horse, mourners, dignitaries and his farm manager and workers -- accompanied the body to its final resting place in the family burial vault at Mount Vernon.

In contrast, President Lincoln was honored with 12 separate funerals over a 20 day period that began April 19, 1865 in the East Room of the Executive Mansion in Washington. After that, the funeral train bearing his walnut casket traveled over 1700 miles to Indianapolis, Albany, Cleveland, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Chicago, Columbus, Buffalo, New York and Harrisburg over a 20 day period ending with his burial in Springfield, Illinois on May 2. The grandest funeral coach for the Lincoln funerals, weighing two tons and drawn by 24 horses, was seen in New York City.

This lengthy funeral period was possible only because Lincoln was the first president to be embalmed. Thomas Holmes, who developed the modern practice of embalming, used it during the Civil War to preserve the bodies of officers killed in battle so that they could be returned home for burial.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 08:35 PM

GUEST--at the top. Right you are. This has imitations (I use the word purposefully) of the JFK funeral. Sad.   A staged presentation by the widow and all those who went along with this charade.   I am sad in my feeling for his widow and her devotion---but many, including myself, have been down that road. Her dearly departed was, to me, no hero and I do not have the luxury of orchestrating a huge memorial tribute to my departed---at taxpayers expense. And I would not have done it anyway. It is a personal thing.


By the way---over 1,000 showed up for my spouse's sad demise many years ago---no hoopla. Just emotion and friendship.   So---Nancy--I empathize but do not sympathize.   She has it all programmed. Just like the Reagan years. To the detriment of the nation.

Woody Guthrie said This Land Is Your Land. Ronnie thought This Land Is His Friend's Land.

Let me urge you all to listen again some old Tom Paxton Recordings---short shelf life as he says. But, you know, they are now still topical .



Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 08:36 PM

Pennsylvania Avenue has also seen the sorrow of seven Presidential funeral processions, including processions for the four who died by assassination.

William Henry Harrison's body was escorted up the Avenue by twenty-six pallbearers, one for each state. The new president, John Tyler, as well as the Cabinet, the Diplomatic Corps, and fourteen militia companies made up the procession.

President Zachary Taylor was the next president to die in office, and his, July 13, 1850, funeral procession stretched for over two miles behind the hearse.

The death of President Abraham Lincoln, on April 15, 1865, shortly after beginning his second term, and just days after Robert E. Lee's surrender to Ulysses S. Grant, resulted in an unprecedented outpouring of grief nationwide. The first president to die by assassination, Lincoln's body was escorted from the White House to the Capitol on April 19 by a cortege numbering 30,000. Arriving late and unable to take its assigned position, the 22nd Colored Infantry fell in at the head of the procession, while African-American lodge groups brought up its rear.

James Garfield, who was shot at the Baltimore and Potomac Railroad station just off Pennsylvania Avenue on July 2, 1881, died of his wounds ten weeks later while attempting to recover at the New Jersey shore. Returned to Washington by train to that same station, Garfield's body was escorted up the Avenue to the Capitol by a procession that included the new president, Chester Arthur, and former president Grant.

Shot by an assassin in Buffalo, New York on September 6, 1901, President William McKinley's body was returned to Washington by train ten days later. On September 17, the dead presidents casket was escorted down the rain dampened Avenue from the White House to the Capitol. Carriages bearing the new President, Theodore Roosevelt, and former president Grover Cleveland preceded the marchers.

President Warren G. Harding died of a cerebral stroke in San Francisco on August 2, 1923. The funeral train arrived at Union Station on August 7th, and the next day, General John J. Pershing and a cavalry escort led the funeral procession from the White House to the Capitol.

Shot by an assassin in Dallas, Texas on November 22, 1963, President John F. Kennedy's funeral procession along the Avenue two days later was televised worldwide. The slain president's casket rode on the same caisson that had borne Franklin Roosevelt's body down Constitution Avenue eighteen years earlier, making Roosevelt the only President to die in office whose procession did not take place on Pennsylvania Avenue.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 08:40 PM

Your Point??   Sitting Presidents. How about long ago retired presidents ---I shall leave the rest of the humor out---


Bill H


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 09:06 PM

The New York Stock Exchange has traditionally closed for presidential funerals. The exchange also closed for the funeral of Martin Luther King Jr. in 1968.

Reagan appointed the first woman to the US Supreme Court. Ironic, eh?

FDR 85 years, almost to the day, after Abraham Lincoln-also at the finish of a great war, with all the attendant echoes of sacrifice and rebirth.

It was, appropriately, a grand exit. Roosevelt died of a cerebral hemorrhage in Warm Springs, Ga., and it was nearly two days before the train carrying his coffin and his widow could make its way up to Washington. The coffin sat in the last car, guarded by one man from each of the service branches, and as it passed, thousands of Southerners, black and white alike, knelt and prayed by the tracks, or sang "Rock of Ages" and "Abide With Me" and "Onward, Christian Soldiers"-the hymn he and Winston Churchill had sung so defiantly together, four years before.

In the capital there was a solemn procession through the streets, the coffin draped with an American flag, carried on a caisson pulled by six white horses. The funeral was held in the East Room of the White House, and when the service began America was silent. "That Saturday afternoon was probably the quietest of the war," wrote William Manchester, in his brilliant account of FDR's death and burial.

The radio went still for the moment-and carried no commercials for four days. Newspapers carried no ads that day. Buses, streetcars, automobiles stopped where they were. Movie theaters and grocery stores closed their doors.

The next day the funeral train resumed its journey home, to the president's estate at Hyde Park, and thousands more lined the tracks-families, Boy Scout troops, a troop of monks from a Hudson River monastery; weeping and waving, or standing in stiff, stunned silence. The West Point corps of cadets met the train and marched with the president's hearse up the winding road from the Hudson River siding to the family rose garden.

There waited much of the Congress, the Supreme Court, the new president and his family, Eleanor Roosevelt and her daughter Anna and son Elliott. (Sons John, James and Franklin Jr. were still at war.) There were also 883 veterans from every service; Geoffrey Ward, in his superb study of FDR, noted that "The medals and decorations they wore recorded the trials of the great war that Roosevelt had directed and whose end he had not lived to see—North Africa and Monte Cassino, Guadalcanal andMidway, Tarawa and Normandy."

There, at Hyde Park, Franklin Roosevelt was laid to rest, with a solemn Episcopal benediction and a 21-gun salute. A riderless horse with its stirrups reversed stood outside the garden; a single bomber flew overhead, emblem of the brave, barbaric new world the president had guided the nation through.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 09:11 PM

well, it was quite a show, no matter what your politics....I sat & watched it. I must disagree with 'guest' back up there ^ aways...Dick Cheney's eulogy was eloquent and moving....I might not have agreed with all the sentiments, but if you didn't know the details, you'd be impressed...If I were in that coffin, I'd want someone to say that quality of stuff about me!

I am on record as being aghast at how gullible the public was at Reagan, but the ceremony was somber and well executed.(if a bit 'excessive'..21 F-15s? Geeze!

What I worry about is that the medium will affect the message...that folks who were 'on the fence' or who never read the Mudcat discussions...*grin*..will watch that amazing couple of hours of stagecraft and decide that "With a ceremony that grand, he MUST have been a wonderful leader".....an idea that will, no doubt, not be squashed by the current administration...."....and we today carry ON the ideals of this great statesman. Cast your vote accordingly."

No matter WHAT you think of Reagan's administration, he knew how to push many people's buttons, and those who DID like him have created an aura and mystique that is hard to chip. Those of us who saw a pretty transparent set of clothes on the Emperor can only shrug and hope that history will gradually work it out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 09:24 PM

My point is this was a dull funeral, by presidential funeral standards. No drama, because he was 93 frickin' years old, and had been out of the spotlight for over 15 years, and no matter how badly the Republicans wanted to invoke the past, it just didn't work, despite the build-up and hype by the right leaning press.

Nancy Reagan, in my view, came off looking like a bad actress--she looked stiff and pathetic in a maudlin way. His son Michael, stiff and rehearsed. The fact that the children didn't stand with Nancy came off as just plain bizarre to me.

There was no bi-partisan unity present for this funeral. Reminded me of Nixon's in that regard. Nobody really seeded to care much,
everyone seemed to be just going through the motions, because after all, he had suffered, the family has suffered, and at 93, people are just relieved to see him go so the suffering can end. It was very anti-climactic after the media hype and build up.

And I found the tone, especially of Hastert, to be shrill and partisan. The Repubs seem to be desperately trying to get all the election year mileage out of this they can, which also leaves a bad taste. And it seemed tackily over-the-top too. Like Bill D said, 21 friggin' airplanes? C'mon. FDR had ONE, and not even a state funeral, and he died in office. Genuine mourning from the people, not this phony shit being peddled like laundry detergent.

Much classier presidential funerals are the precedent. This one just didn't satisfy, IMO. Not because of Reagan's politics, but because of his & Nancy's controlling personalities, the decision to leave the kids out in the cold, a lot of people who came just to say they were there, not of genuine grief, that sort of thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: Sorcha
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 09:34 PM

I'll just be glad when it's all over. I'm sick of the hype, the lies, the exaggerations, the copy catting, sick of all of it. The man is dead. Bury him. He hadn't been 'home' for years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 12:06 AM

For all that I dislike Reagan, picking on the family at the funeral seems a bit strained. How does one compose one's face when there is a high likelihood that a television camera is just waiting to swoop in on any expression? Nancy and Ronald were a matched set--she was as obnoxious as he was in her time at the White House. Moreso when they were preparing to move in--Nancy had the balls to suggest that Roslyn and Jimmy Carter should move OUT of the White House early so it could be redecorated. But she's 80-something and coming off of 10 years of living with someone with Aldzheimers. I wouldn't wish on anyone, not even her. Who knows what was going on with the kids--they didn't look uncomfortable where they were. But I didn't stick around to listen to Cheney or any other speakers.

BillD said ....I might not have agreed with all the sentiments, but if you didn't know the details, you'd be impressed...If I were in that coffin, I'd want someone to say that quality of stuff about me!

Bill, if you were in the coffin listening to that, I'd be worried, I wouldn't be impressed!

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 12:13 AM

C'mon. How many first families can you think of that wouldn't include their children in any part whatsoever of the funeral? OK, the Bushes, because they can't even be bothered to show up for their daughter's college graduation.

There's Republican family values for you.

The Washington Post referred to the funeral as "austere".

I say, dull.

And as to all this "they are human, they have suffered so terribly" crap...

Puhleez. Where is the concern for all those humans who suffered as a result of Bad Actor/Worst President Ronnie and his Marie Antoinette marionette wife, hmmmm?


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 12:39 AM

Guest, you must have missed some of the other Reagan threads. I'm no fan of his on any level. But there reaches a point when you draw a line as to how far the invective needs to bleed away from the target. I didn't say anything about their suffering, I said I wouldn't wish Aldzheimers on anyone--I presume this was a difficult life, you're the one who suggested this might result in drawing false correlations in suffering. For most people, losing a spouse or a parent is painful, no matter what the circumstances.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 12:40 AM

And anyone who thinks the very wealthy Nancy Reagan actually was the caretaker of Ronald Reagan rather than a staff of medical personnel after the Alzheimers kicked in, well...you know what they say about swampland in Florida...


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 12:49 AM

These people are public figures who are notorious for their lack of compassion for those in our society have suffered most, and who have come to represent, to me, my family, my friends, and the vast majority of my colleagues, the absolute worst of American political life.

You suggesting that those of us made working poor by Reaganomics should have compassion for the Reagans, is like suggesting to the Argentinian mothers of the disappeared, that they ought to vote for Pinochet being pardoned.

In other words, what you are suggesting is galling to many of us who suffered directly as a result of the man's policies, and didn't much appreciate his and his wife's "let them eat cake" attitudes towards us. Especially when his heir is busy driving us ever further into the wilderness.

But I'm sure you don't give a shit about that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: Blackcatter
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 01:14 AM

GUEST - you're an idiot and leave the swampland in Florida alone - having you associated with it, only hurts it's value.

Do you realize that mulitiple times over a few hours you've said that a funeral is boring? It's a funeral, for goodness sake! How pitiful are you? Since when are funerals riveting, especially since you have no direct connection with the deceased?


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 06:38 PM

So I sit down to watch the nightly news, and it hits me. This funeral was scheduled at the same time as the national nightly news broadcasts!

And lo and behold--they are now going live to the Capitol rotunda right now because, surprise surprise--Dubya and his darlin' gal have arrived to pay their respects, again, timed perfectly for the nightly news broadcast.

Sigh.

If only people could make genuine distinctions between the hucksters and manipulaters, and the real deal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 06:51 PM

Overall, more Kafka-esque than Kennedy-esque.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 07:07 PM

Good point.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 08:05 PM

Noting that an american cowboy was given full military honours (some of these are given to leaders), including 21 gun salute, the gun carriage reversed boots in the stirrups, and 'missing man' flypast...


"His Grace! impossible! what, dead?
Of old age too, and in his bed! ...
'Twas time in conscience he should die!
This world he cumber'd long enough;
He burnt his candle to the snuff;
And that's the reason, some folks think,
He left behind so great a stink."


Jonathan Swift, from A Satirical Elegy on the Death of a Late Famous
General


Robin
---
"My men have a disease of the heart which can only be assuaged by
gold" - Hernan Cortez


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 11:12 AM

Boys and girls, in death as in life, Ronald Reagan was and is SHOW BIZ!

I learned fron NPR this morning that the script was written 16 years ago. The plans for these doings were devised, in great detail, when he was still in office, and they are being carried out almost in exact detail as planned then.

I'm told that the timetable has been stretched a little to accommodate the IMF conference at Sea Island, so that international leaders are available to attend, but the script (screenplay?) was written a LONG time ago.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 05:06 PM

They're burying Reagan at sunset at the spot at his library that he picked and has visited many times. The ceremony out there will be a reflection of his Hollywood years, apparently. Lots of celebrities. On the news they said Kirk Douglas (who has had several strokes) and Charlton Heston (who has Aldzheimers) will be there. If they sound anything like Margaret Thatcher (who I think also had a stroke) did in the news clip I heard at lunch, it will be a short and breathy and not too audible set of remarks. But robust Gov. Ahnold will be there, too. They said the Reagan children will speak at this ceremony. It sounds like it all might be kind of odd and very sad for a lot of different reasons.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 06:49 PM

The absolutely saddest part is what the man did to the country & its citizens while he was alive.

I also think the Republican National Committee is missing out on a real entrepreneurial opportunity here- they should cremate the ol' Gipper
& sell small packets of his ashes, or better yet, auction them off.
Relics of Saint Ronald! Next best thing to pieces of the true cross!
They'd make a fortune for the Bush campaign.

Surprized Rush hasn't promoted the idea on his show, actually.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 10:00 AM

I thought the entire ordeal seemed like a week long militaristic love fest.

If I never hear 'Hail to the Chief' played again...

Thank GOD it is over.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 10:42 AM

Its far from over. They'll be beating this tin pan right thru Election Day. They're only catching their breath....


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 11:06 AM

The Republicans would be stupid to do that. The country grew impatient quickly with all the blanket coverage, and plenty of people recognized they would simply have to endure the hype about a president they loathed.

But everybody is ready to let it go. When the late night comedians are cracking jokes about how long and dragged out the proceedings are, you know it won't be long before it is permanently put out of people's minds.

I'm sure Bush/Cheney will try and milk it for all it's worth. But the American electorate isn't even paying attention to most the hoopla. Remember, the majority of Americans no longer watch network or cable news. And the over the top coverage of the Reagan beatification ceremonies is one of the many reasons why most people don't watch network or cable news.

The other thing is, there are too many much more serious things happening that people are paying attention to, like the war in Iraq, the prisoner abuse scandal, Bush' failure to get NATO support at the G8 summit, despite getting a perfunctory and unenforceable UN resolution, etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 02:25 PM

Would that you were right, oh Guest.

Time will out...


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Subject: RE: BS: Reagan Funeral Looks Kennedy-esque
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 02:34 PM

I saw that the California funeral appeared in replays over the course of the evening. I listened to the immigrant South African minister do the final talk once the casket was moved to rest atop where it will be interred.

What surprised me about that was his apparent lack of discretion in choosing to use so many personal pronouns--"I" came up often, and for all that it was Reagan's funeral and he was the family's personal pastor, this guy talked about himself and his life and his wife--it sounded like his soapbox audition for something. By the time he finished his 10 minutes or so we knew more about HIS life than anything that he might know about Reagan. It really was odd. And for all that I didn't like Reagan, they could have turned off the cameras at the point when Nancy broke down. There is a limit to how intrusive and what the public needs to see.

Okay. Now back to our regular carping.

SRS


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