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BS: Matter and Spirit
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Bill D Date: 30 Jun 06 - 02:31 PM *grin* |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: beardedbruce Date: 30 Jun 06 - 01:54 PM Dewey, I have a great deal for you, cash and in small unmarked bills. You seem to think that the ONLY path to understanding is your own- THAT is the FIRST indication that you might not be accurate. I can claim to have had many conversations with the Universe, and thus have a far better understanding of it than you- BUT SO WHAT? The statement that "When you experience ( whatever) then you will understand" does not add value to any discussion. To suggest to BillD ( of all people) "Just try taking a philosphy course from a local university if you doubt this experience exists and/or existed in the mind's of many great men and women." indicstes a real disconnect between you and reality. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Little Hawk Date: 30 Jun 06 - 01:34 PM They smirk, Dewey, with the utter, smug assurance of a tiny, self-worshipping bubble of ego that KNOWS it is the final authority on everything it surveys and has an opinion on. Well, at least...until it dies. Then all the strutting and preening and "being right" is over, and the World goes on regardless, surprising in its graceful and effortless ability to survive and prosper without that little blathering bubble of ego. And then? Oh, the blessed silence! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Dewey Date: 30 Jun 06 - 06:29 AM Bill, Typing with your head up your rear-end, kind of limits your having a SERIOUS mystical experience. It's like saying there is no such thing as vanilla ice cream, and having the final say on the subject, just because you've never bother trying vanilla ice cream. Have you seriously tried finding God by practicing the 13 principles described in Napolean Hill's Classic Book, Think and Grow Rich? Whether you have or haven't experienced the 6th sense, does not, in one i-oda, change reality. God will APPEAR TO YOU, if you practice these principles and it will totally flip you out. I'm not asking you to take my word for any of this. You cannot take my word until you find God for yourself in you own state of mind. you will either confirm my truth, or deny it based on your attitude of mind, but be aware it is your attitude, not that of the many thousands if not millions out there that are/ or have experienced this very real phenomonon. Try to discover the face of God, like all ancient sages, philisophers, and wisdom teachers as well, you will find wisdom and intergated direction in the presents of God, and the devine spirit of the creation. The "secert' Napolean HIll talks about is denied to all, except those that are "ready" Aristotle, Socrates, Descarte, Voltaire, Mozart, Einstein, Edison, Burbank, Ford, Carnegie, Rockafeller, Emerson, Whitman, etc. etc. were all "READY" Study history and the above philosphers (for a starter) and you will READ IN THEIR BIOGRAPHIES that they ALL agreed on the presents of a Metaphyscial God guiding their every thought and activity. I'm not just touting or preaching here. This stuff is in your College textbooks, Just try taking a philosphy course from a local university if you doubt this experience exists and/or existed in the mind's of many great men and women. As far as the secret: Thomas Edison used it and asked God for many Good and perfect things which mankind is still benifiting from today. His Definite Major purpose which inspired his 6th sense was a noble one: the advancement of human understanding and happiness. he asked God for Good things, things which benefited everyone, and his consciousness was expanded to recieve these gifts from the universal intelligents which flowed though him.... due to this ONE IDEA. All riches have there BEGINNING IN AN IDEA. It has to be a major purpose that is not self-centered but benefits all that it serves. and from THAT SPIRITUAL force comes the MATERIAL force. Edison's fertile mind linked up with infinite intelligents brought some of the follow INTEGRATED ADVANCEMENTS in the physical world for mankind: Inventions such as concrete, rubber tires, car batteries, headlights. electrical power transformers, telephone lines, movie projectors, recording equipment, typewriters. All seriving his higher goal: "The advancement of human understanding and happiness" From that DEFINITE MAJOR PURPOSE of Thomas Edison's came the ability to move industrial goods, the abilty to light cities for industries, the ability for mass communication, the abilty to tame the landscape etc. etc. To raise crops. to feed people etc. etc. etc. No doubt, we are all still benifiting from this definite major purpose of what was one man and his devine connection to a higher form of inetllgents beyond man's. The infinite intelligents fell upon Faraday in this century, He CHANNELED thosands of formulas for ceramic semi-conductors, formulas from infininte intelligents, which when taken down to the lab were found to be 100 percent workable and correct. Advancements which lead to production of modern computer storage capacity, and low and behold.... we know have the internet (something by the way which could never have happed had Thomas Edison not used infinite intelligent to help him in the creation of the power grid and the advancement of basic phone service in every city, something which infinite intelligents also was responsible for as well if you take the time to study his life you will learn of these facts as I did, just do a google search and you will no doubtedly be amazed. Infinite Intelligents also helped Miscrosoft's Bill Gates come up will the DOS operating system. It is a true story and a FACT that this system, was GIVEN to him in its ENTIRETY in a DREAM while he was asleep, and upon awakening he put it to use. Don't you yet see the purpose of the power of intention? Intention is forced in the universe that allows the act of CREATION to take place, it flows through you and through every other living thing for the good and perfect benefit of the whole, when used and orchestrated with the state of mind that affirms and integrates the perfection. Just look at nature, and you will see the very intention of God himself... the infinite spirit in its very own creation: everything works to together in utter perfection for the good of the whole. Let's see if some of the arrogant scientists could be even 1/1,000th as good as nature ALWAYS is in intergrating and balancing the whole of creation for the good of all and everything within it. INTENTION IS EVERYWHERE, it's also in our mind's pysche and souls as well. i.e. everything!!!! And some of you smirk because, LH, Daylia, and myself cannot fully comprehend and explain it ALL in one small neat little sentence. Of course we cannot, God is not finite, and he is far bigger. So what that we cannot understand it all. We need not to still have to ability to to move with and experience the flow of such creativity and perfect. Then you begin to question where God is? And if he can still be determined, He is in fact and without doubt in EVERY ATOM working his wonders in both the spiritual and the material world constantly, in ways so bizarre and devine we will can NEVER see the full picture, but I say so what? I still know and can feel the force that is behind it all guiding me and guiding everything else as well. It doesn't mean that we cannot find the general collective experiences that the mystics of all ages agree to as being elements of the nature of god, this devine creator. Vanilla ice cream does exist. As does God. But you have to open yourself up to trying vanilla ice cream out, much like you have to open yourself up to God, to know his nature, and/ or favor. Anybody that's tasted vanilla ice cream, knows collectively much of the following and is in total agreement, the ice cream is cold, and it is cream tasting, it melts etc. People who have EXPERIENCED God, in a MYSTICAL way, all agree whole-heartedly about the following: God is in everyone, everything, every place, and everywhere at once, 24/7 and is independant of our small thoughts and own mind yet is able to give us precisely what we need at precisely when we need it once we have developed the pyscho-spiritual relations. Our Father (first cause) Which art in heaven (perfect) Hallowed (Holy, Full of Goodness) Be thy Name (authority, author of creation) Thy (GOD's) Kingdom (rules which define and unfold goodness) Come (Manifested in conscious devine activity) Thy will (orchestrated by infininite intellgents) Be Done (accomplished) In earth (the physical) as it is in heaven. (perfection through intercession with the devine) We are not alone in our thoughts or even in our very biology. As above, So below. (Hermes) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: *daylia* Date: 27 Jun 06 - 07:54 AM Wow, I can't believe the way this thread is shaping up! So many blessings flying about -- I feel more, uh, sacred every time I come here! ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: John O'L Date: 27 Jun 06 - 03:01 AM Bless me father, for I have sneezed... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: freda underhill Date: 27 Jun 06 - 01:58 AM Gesundheit! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: John O'L Date: 27 Jun 06 - 01:41 AM No Bill, and no Little Hawk, it was Guest AR282 for a while, bless you both. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Little Hawk Date: 27 Jun 06 - 01:32 AM I keep getting confused too. I thought it was 282AR for a while... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Bill D Date: 26 Jun 06 - 11:34 PM wasn't it RA282 for awhile? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: 282RA Date: 26 Jun 06 - 09:15 PM >>By the way, hope you don't mind me asking but what does 282RA stand for?<< It's a long, unintelligible story. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Little Hawk Date: 26 Jun 06 - 01:09 PM I don't take myself as some kind of authority. I just enjoy talking about things that interest me. None of us is an authority on these matters, as far as I can see. Yes, I do deliver little jabs sometimes...but we all do that, I think. It's human nature to do so when caught up in the heat of a debate. I find it genuinely intriguing that I might now disagree totally with someone about a matter which I would have agree with them entirely on at another time in my own life (regardless of what age I was at the time). It shows just how capricious and changeable human beings are. The people that really puzzle me, in fact, are the ones who never change their minds about anything from the time they are children till they time they have one foot in the grave. Is such extraordinary consistency indicative of steadfastness...or just sheer stupidity and lack of imagination? I wonder. ;-) I think the fact that people change their minds as time goes on is good...it shows they are willing to be flexible and adapt. I've met people who went from being religious to being atheists, and I've met people who did the exact opposite. In either case it could indicate either a step forward into a greater understanding...or a step backward into some kind of disillusionment or an attempt to find security and "cover up" against further hurt. It could be good or it could be bad...and that would depend entirely on the specific personality of the person in question. In other words: there are both wise and stupid ways of being "religious", and there are both wise and stupid ways of being atheistic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: 282RA Date: 26 Jun 06 - 12:37 PM >>Are you sure you're not just trying to "win the argument" on technical points. 282AR? ;-) I am trying to find common ground with you here, not perpetuate a disagreement...<< You have a knack for taking little jabs. "You sound like me when I was in my twenties" translates into, "Oh, I once thought like you but I was young and foolish but I grew out of it. Too bad you didn't." It rubs a person the wrong way. >>I realize that many of these matters are in fact inexpressible in human language. Nevertheless, there's no harm in trying to express them as best we can.<< It's a doomed venture. Any attempt to express it will be wrong. Why tell people something you know is wrong when you're trying to convey a truth? >>The effort of trying to can produce some great poetry and literature, and that's worthwhile.<< Poetry is generally metaphoric. Expressing truths in abstract that allow the reader to do his or her own processing. You can't just tell people how it is because it will be wrong and you're wrong if you attempt it. You're causing more harm than good if take you as some kind of authority. If you studied Eastern philosophy then you know Buddha was silent on certain matters. Why? Because no words will work except to worsen the situation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Little Hawk Date: 25 Jun 06 - 05:15 PM Are you sure you're not just trying to "win the argument" on technical points. 282AR? ;-) I am trying to find common ground with you here, not perpetuate a disagreement... I realize that many of these matters are in fact inexpressible in human language. Nevertheless, there's no harm in trying to express them as best we can. The effort of trying to can produce some great poetry and literature, and that's worthwhile. It seems to me that the scientific community has proposed the notion of a "first event", namely: the Big Bang. They propose that prior to that event there was no perceivable Universe as we know it, but that the Universe as we know it came into being as a result of the Big Bang. I believe they further propose that time itself did not exist prior to that event...time being the measure of an object's travel across a given distance. When there are no separate objects, and thus no distances in between them, there is in effect no time. It's interesting to me how closely that resembles some of the symbolic religious stories in Genesis and various other ancient holy books. I don't think that either science or religion will ever find final explanations for such things, because each explanation simply leads to further questions. It's like trying to find the smallest obervable particle...there tends to always be another smaller one lurking inside it, like the Russian dolls inside Russian dolls. It just depends how closely you are able to look at it. Despite all the facts we can marshall, life and existence remain mysterious. Religion and philosophy are attempts to unravel the mystery. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: *daylia* Date: 25 Jun 06 - 05:12 PM PS - thanks comin right back to you as well, 282RA. By the way, hope you don't mind me asking but what does 282RA stand for? (If you're an android and that's your offical |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: *daylia* Date: 25 Jun 06 - 05:03 PM Well, it does mean have a great day, or all the best, or may you always get your money for nothing and your chicks for free -- or whatever thing one might choose to think it means, I suppose. As long as it's a 'good' (ie desirable and beneficial) thing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: 282RA Date: 25 Jun 06 - 04:44 PM >>A philosopher does not require proof in order to espouse a philosophical theory<< Actually, he or she does. That's how the philosopher makes the point. This proof is more often than not self-evident. My criticism of a First Cause doctrine depends on self-evident proof--a priori, I suppose you'd call it. I pointed out why the First Cause doctrine simply cannot work: it violates everything we know about causality to the point where it is simply absurd to even classify it as a form of causality. I don't have to get up and prove it. That causality is an endless chain both forward and backward is self-evident unless you have a real world example of something appearing or occurring that was totally uncaused by anything and, of course, there can be no such thing. Hence the a priori nature of the evidence. As for reincarnation, I agree that it is likely and I do have an argument for it. However, its conclusion is not very specific. It does lead us to conclude that consciousness is somehow reborn or recycled in a physical body and that it appears that mind and body are mutually dependent. That means one cannot really exist separately from the other. The implication of this is that neither has any true reality but are manifestations of something more primal, more fundamental but whatever that is, it is not perceivable by us, not experiential. Therefore, it cannot be labeled because language cannot capture it. Therefore, to give it words is to necessarily misunderstand and mischaracterize it. How do we characterize it then? You can't. It's something you feel inside, something you KNOW. However, that part can never be transmitted to another person, it is necessarily limited to first person experience. You give the appearance of grasping that it is experiential but then try to explain it to others at which point you lose it and become another dogmatic preacher. If you understood that it is only something one can know inside beyond language, you would simply leave off at that point. All I can do is demonstrate why a concept doesn't really work but I can't do more than that. It gives the impression I negate everything nihilistically but I don't. There's something beyond the words but I can't express it and if I try, I'll not only be wrong, I'll be dogmatically expressing my beliefs--saying this is how it is but offering no proof. You can only prove what you can prove. Beyond that, it's just your feelings on the matter, at which point you have to back off. You've done as much as can be done. So I don't try to tell others what to believe at that point, I don't have any pipeline enlightenment myself. But I can show them why a superficial position doesn't work and doesn't even scratch the truth. What people do with that is up to them. I don't really know what to do with it either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: 282RA Date: 25 Jun 06 - 04:02 PM >>Oops, almost forgot ... bless you, 282RA!<< If it sort of means have a nice day, then, thank you, and you as well! And yes, everybody else also. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Little Hawk Date: 25 Jun 06 - 02:14 PM I think you're misunderstanding my basic perspective on this kind of subject, 282AR. I'm interested in such subjects as "matter and spirit" from a philosophical point of view. I don't belong to any organized religion and I don't consider myself a member of any particular religion or creed. I am not attached to any particular religion's set of rules or dogma. I'm essentially a philosopher by nature. I'm interested in philosophical ideas. All religions contain a great deal of philosophy about life and about human nature, and that's why religions interest me. You keep asking "where's your proof" to me or Daylia or whomever...and I think, "Why would he even be asking that????" Philosophy is a study of hypothetical ideas which are interesting in their own right. The moment one of those ideas becomes provable it's not philosophy anymore...it's a known fact! My tendency to believe that I have a soul...or that souls reincarnate...is a philosophical hypothesis. I don't know that there is any way of proving it, except to experience it consciously. I don't know it for a fact, but I find it a philosophical premise which makes more sense to me than believing that I'm just a temporary consciousness trapped in a dying physical body which will cease when the heart stops beating. A philosopher does not require proof in order to espouse a philosophical theory, and that's all it amounts to. A philosopher enjoys considering alternative philosophical theories, and he will usually like one better than another. That's natural. I like the theory that we have souls which outlive the body. I never claimed to have proof of it, nor would I demand that anyone else provide proof of it. ;-) Such things usually cannot be proven or disproven...but they are interesting and they are worth talking about...and talking about them should not arouse hostility in people who subscribe to a different philosophy, should it? Isn't it more fun to have many philosophies than to only have one? As you can see, I am in favour of freedom of thought on this matter...accordingly I am little inclined to tie myself rigidly to any one set of religious philosophy. I understand your resistance to what you see as religious dogma...as practiced by some people...but if that's what you're fighting against, then I am not your enemy. **** You asked what it means to "bless" something (or someone). That's strictly a matter of personal opinion. Here's what it means to me: It means to send positive thoughts and intentions and feelings toward that something or someone. It works way better than sending negative thoughts, feelings, and intentions...I can tell you that! Try it and see. Any number of examples could be given, but I should think it's so obvious that it's hardly necessary. A "blessing" is simply a positively directed thought, that's all. And positive thoughts lead to positive actions, don't they? A belief in what I think of as "Spirit" is simply a belief in the power and effectiveness of thought to affect life in a great variety of meaningfull ways. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: *daylia* Date: 25 Jun 06 - 11:10 AM Oops, almost forgot ... bless you, 282RA! And a full round of blessings on the whole house, too. Hee hee! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: *daylia* Date: 25 Jun 06 - 11:02 AM What do you mean "bless" something? Uh ... according to Websters, to "bless" is to invoke divine care for (ie "Bless your heart!"), to praise, to glorify, to approve, to confer prosperity or happiness upon, to endow, to favour, to hallow or consecrate via religious rite. I meant all of the above, except the "religious rite" bit. To bless something does not require religion or rites. All it requires is a joyful, loving, appreciative heart and mind. And what is your proof that this mysterious "blessing" produces the results you claim? It's not mysterious at all. But sorry, if you want 'proof' you will have to produce it for yourself, via your own personal efforts and experience. No one else can possibly do all that for you. Doggone it, eh? Oh well, as my son says, that's just the Way o'the Road. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Bill D Date: 25 Jun 06 - 10:28 AM to 'bless' is to brush away gnats with a feather duster, prior to offering the supplicant a coconut. (The 'blessor' must be nude, to show the he is not the source of the gnats) No, wait... I guess that is a blessing in disguise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: 282RA Date: 25 Jun 06 - 10:25 AM >>Napolean Hill refers to God as Infinite Intelligents, the First Cause<< And there Napolean meets his Waterloo. God cannot be a First Cause because that is nothing but an unknowable assumption. Everything we know about causality shows as that it is an endless chain. Every cause is an effect of a previous cause. Every effect serves as a cause for an effect further down the road, so to speak. So a First Cause is an effect of a previous cause that cannot exist since the effect is the First Cause. Hence, a First Cause violates everything we know about causality. It is, in fact, non-causal. If it is non-causal, then it cannot cause anything to happen. It's the old chicken or egg argument all over again. Which came first? Can't have one without the other so which came first? This simple but profound question points out that the very idea of a First Cause is fundamentally flawed. First Cause is a just a label for something we don't understand and lulls us into a false perception that because we have labeled it we must therefore understand it. So we say "god is the First Cause" without ever understanding that we are saying nothing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: 282RA Date: 25 Jun 06 - 10:15 AM >>I like the cut of your jib 282RA, but you let yourself down with wild generalisations like that one. They are labels for concepts which are not yet clearly defined, and as such are immeasurably useful. If not for the labels we would not be able to discuss the concepts.<< But most people do not understand the difference between the concept and the label. They assume one is the other and hence Christianity. You can go into any church on a Sunday and listen to some hotshot throwing out words like "spirit" "matter" "God" as though these are completely understandable and have been proven beyond all doubt when a philosopher would instead ask now that we have these labels what are we labeling? And why couldn't we switch the labels around or do away with them altogether? When you assume you know what the label means, you're already wrong. And too many people assume they know what the label means. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: 282RA Date: 25 Jun 06 - 10:06 AM >>People who make a point of blessing the things they like and want in their lives, every day, find themselves happier, healthier, more satisfied, confident, prosperous, loving and successful human beings.<< What do you mean "bless" something? And what is your proof that this mysterious "blessing" produces the results you claim? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Bill D Date: 24 Jun 06 - 11:09 AM You may think it's usable material, but it'snot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: *daylia* Date: 24 Jun 06 - 09:48 AM 444! Ha ha HA! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: *daylia* Date: 24 Jun 06 - 09:47 AM I dunno, Bill, that looks like quite the affliction. If snouts like that ran in my family, I wouldn't be wasting precious time sniffin around other people's personal business -- believe me, I'd be sniffin out the causes and possible cures instead. Rhinoplasty, gene therapy, even amputation might be in order. Or maybe you all have something stuck in there, causing the swelling? A buildup of professional airs putting the pressure on? Or maybe a lifetime's worth of giant boogers? Hmmmm - if the latter's the case, I wouldn't even attempt to pick 'em, myself. Y'all could just have 'em extracted. Professionally. Easy enough! And you might even end up with enough , uh, material to fill up a couple of those infamous potholes! On second thought, what kind of tree does your family like best? Apple, perhaps? ; > ) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Jun 06 - 06:08 PM Chongo is always happy to advise. Just ask him. I think he sort of believes in God in a kind of general and vague way...but at the same time, he's not religious. That is, I've never heard of him belonging to or attending any church. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Bill D Date: 23 Jun 06 - 06:02 PM oh, my yes! Maybe if Chongo drops by, he could offer advice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Jun 06 - 05:59 PM If I could only train my dachshund to type that way, Bill...just THINK of the pearls of wisdom that would fall on this forum! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Bill D Date: 23 Jun 06 - 11:05 AM The whole family can sniff out silliness and nonsense pretty well, that's why we occasionally have to sit on our hands. ;>) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: *daylia* Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:53 AM Ooooo ... maybe only the nose Knows! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: bobad Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:51 AM Well Bill, I see where you get your good looks from. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Bill D Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:49 AM (Uncle Charlie was a good typist...he and a bunch of other distant relatives are busy working on the works of Shakespeare, even as we converse) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Bill D Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:43 AM (my toes aren't prehensile) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: freda underhill Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:41 AM more comfy than your toes? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Bill D Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:37 AM *sitting on my hands* (why yes, I did type this with my nose, why do you ask?) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: bobad Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:31 AM Some people are fortunate in that they have their edifices completed whereas others are still digging the holes for their foundation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: *daylia* Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:31 AM I doubted, most painfully, all my life. Till just a few years ago, when I found myself in deep personal crisis, in big BIG trouble, literally at my wit's end, helpless, hopeless, just twisted in pain and grief and fear with no other option in sight -- and I found myself praying for help just like I did as a little kid. Desperately. As a last resort. "Jesus, if you really exist at all, and if you really love me like they've always told me you do, please PLEASE PLEASE TAKE THIS AWAY FROM ME NOW" And lo and behold, there He was, manifest in perfect Light and Beauty and Power and Joy, in the privacy and sanctity of my own inner vision. Right arm outstretched, commanding, healing, blessing. And so it was. The pain was gone. The fear was gone. And I was just blown away with shock and gratitude. Words cannot even begin to describe how it felt ... 8-D In the wisdom and power of that 30-second healing vision (and a couple more in the months that followed), He taught me more than I could have hoped to learn in an entire lifetime about spirituality, about Him, about myself. What was most astounding to me at the time was how very well he knew me! He knew exactly what I was experiencing and thinking and feeling, what I'd experienced and thought and felt all my life in fact. He knew exactly what I needed, and how to give it in a way that would have the most meaning, the most healing power, the most wide-ranging and lasting and beneficial effects, for me, personally. ANd that experience changed me forever. IN fact, I am still benefitting in new ways, still learning and deriving new inspiritation from that encounter. And others like it in the years that followed -- not just involving Jesus, but the many many other spiritual Beings who guide and bless and protect and benefit and uplift me, every single day of my life. As They do for every single one of you, whether you recognize or believe it or not. Thank you so much to Mudcat for the opportunity to share this, to Freda and to others above ..... your willingness to share your own profound, life-changing yet most illogical, controversial and unscientific experiences was what gave me the courage to post this here at all. K Bill, Wolfgang etc etc -- I'm all done. Lock and load! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Amos Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:18 AM Well, Little Hawk, looks like you and Dewey have sewed this whole thread right up, and the rest of the Cosmos is also in the bag thanks to you two intrepid analysts. Not an inch of ground uncovered. Staked, strung and fenced, on 16-inch centers, purdy as you please, with wall board aligned, screwed, mudded down and painted up as pretty as you please. Thank God for that. Now we can turn our attention to more important stuff, like hair coloring and weight loss. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Jun 06 - 09:11 AM You're absolutely right, Dewey. Pedantic little minds will, of course, leap with joy upon some of your misspellings (as if it mattered!) and use those little shreds of excuses to reject out of hand the value of the whole sum and substance of what you have just said....because that's the way pedantic little minds operate. Nevertheless, you are absolutely right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Dewey Date: 23 Jun 06 - 08:06 AM opps!! I meant "grateful hearts" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Dewey Date: 23 Jun 06 - 08:01 AM Napolean Hill refers to God as Infinite Intelligents, the First Cause, the Collective Subconscious, the Universal Intelligents. Whatever the rest of you wish to call him/she/it is a subjective issue of your own mind, until you call on the spiritual powers of your collective mind, you will be working from your subjective mind only. Mr. Hill refers to the synthetic imagination and the creative imagination. By the way, It is not just a term I made up, it is the most real thing out there and will convince anyone beyond a doubt that there is a SEPERATE higher intelligence being (beings) beyond our being and that we are not alone, either in the thoughts we send or the infomation we channel. the synthetic imagination (man's physical mind for example), weighs things againsty all that it knows only, it deduces some type of conclusion from available facts only, it is grounded in the physical and the known world largely. Things must be "thought out" here, retieved from available ideas mulled over in detail through trial and error only. With this mind, it is mainly a thinking and retrieving mind and a finite world. Facts come from where-ever the brain can find them and nowhere else. This mind makes mistakes and often lacks confidence and the ability for guidance and/or direct. This mind stumbles, makes mistakes, fails to act, acts of erroneous information, because it is not being guided by a higher cause our developed in its/our confidence and/or will. Now, the creative imagination, works entirely different. Rather than mull over dull and available ideas only, and merely sort them for usefullness, using man's small limited brain capacity. the Creative imagination takes the finite mind of man and links it directly to infinite intelligents in the form of an affirmation or prayer. Like the Creator the creative imagination CREATES..... that is after all the prupose of God..... to create. And everything that he creates is benefical and good. the creative imagination has the added ability of making all our thoughts deeds and action right and perfectly correct, in the most integrated and devine way. When we let go of our thoughts, and act in love and faith on our ideas, through faith in a higher invisible idea guiding us, we are asking GOD to execute our will. We are calling on the Creative, rather than the synthetic imagination, and we are finding the correct answers at every turn and acting upon them. We are also drawing ourselves closer to the divine, which in turn is expanding our consicousness, brain power and will unto itself and ourself simultanously throuhg timeless interchange. God the collective, begins growing, the creative imagination, becomes a channel to which interaction becomes benifical. Master the 13 principles in Naploean Hill's Book, Think and Grow Rich. and God will appear to you in you thoughts, deed and and life continously, you will get a since of oneness and of purpose, and you will feel the collective presents of a divine being beyond man's. The "secret" to which Napolena Hill describes in Think and Grow Rich will always be denied, and only avialable to those that are "READY" If you are READY for the infinite intelligents, than the infinite is READY for you. If you aren't than you will be denying it on this message board rather experiencing its exist in you thoughts and intuition. Napolean give a hint of the "secret" a secret to which Thomas Edison used to Create thousand of inventions, on such things like the phongraph, to which there was no previous blueprints or even concepts. All this "stuff" had to come from somewhere. it came from the infintie intellignets and the creative collective subsonscious, whatever you want to call it. I call it GOD!!! The "secret" was used for ever major invention inculding the computer I am type at now. Napaleon HIll's Says reguatrding the secret (infinite intelligents) "the secret cannot be given away because it comes in TWO PARTS." 1. All riches, accomphishment etc. have there beginning in and idea ******IF******you are READY for the secret (infinite intelligents interacting with your state of mind) you already possess i/2 of the secret (infinite intelligents) 2. Therefore you will READILY recognize the other half once IT (INFINITE INTELLIGENTS) enters you mind. The secret is INFINITE INTELLIGENTS. Its not what YOU do in life that gets you down the road of life , it is what INFINITE INTELLIGENTS does for you, because of your STATE OF MIND at all times. Your state of mind and surrendering in postive expectation toward a higher guidance will bring on the infinite intelligents, the 6th sense which is beyond the physical body and is the true body of man and his purpose in the cosmos. And yes, it is real to those that are READY to experience their own higher self and their own creative non-physical/spritual mind, and the creator that is behind that mind always. If you knew who walked beside you at all times you could never doubt anything ever again. Also ponder the following prayer: From God whom cometh all Good and perfect Gifts With greatful hearts we thank thee for thy blessings Teach us to enjoy thy blessings with love and thanksgiving As long as thou giveth us strenght teach us to use it For thy love, honor and Glory. Amen (President and General George Washington) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: John O'L Date: 22 Jun 06 - 11:20 PM 'There's a lotta good ways to be wicked...' - Hezekiah Jones? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Jun 06 - 11:06 PM For sure. There are many ways to do anything. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Amos Date: 22 Jun 06 - 11:00 PM Even Steven Colbert admits, "I believe there are MANY ways to accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior....". :D A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Jun 06 - 10:07 PM Faith in stupid things leads to stupid results, faith in wise things leads to good results. The reason fundamentalism has a bad name is because it's rather common for fundamentalists to believe in stupid things, such as: "Our way is the only true path. Those who don't follow it are doomed." Exclusivity and intolerance are not indicative of spiritual wisdom. Tolerance toward differing faiths is. The spiritually wise do not attempt to convert other people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: John O'L Date: 22 Jun 06 - 09:31 PM I am also not entirely at ease with the logic that says: Fundamentalism is evil Faith leads to fundamentalism Faith must therefore be evil. There are may degrees of faith. Hysterical faith lends itself to political manipulation and fundamentalism. Moderate faith should not be thus tarnished. There are many poisons which, taken in small doses, are medicines. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Matter and Spirit From: John O'L Date: 22 Jun 06 - 08:02 PM They are only labels and are utterly useless. I like the cut of your jib 282RA, but you let yourself down with wild generalisations like that one. They are labels for concepts which are not yet clearly defined, and as such are immeasurably useful. If not for the labels we would not be able to discuss the concepts. ...only our mental constructs to deal with something we do not understand. 'Only'? Aren't you being a little dismissive? |
