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Lyr Req: Linden Lea

Related threads:
(origins) Lyr Add: My Orchet in Linden Lea (William Barnes) (21)
Lyr Add: Linden Lea (42)
Lyr Req: Under the Old Linden Tree (20)
Lyr Req: The Linden Lea (13)
Tune Add: Linden Lea (7) (closed)
Lyr Req: Linden Lea (9)


Fliss 24 Sep 04 - 08:24 AM
jacqui.c 24 Sep 04 - 08:33 AM
Fiolar 24 Sep 04 - 08:38 AM
Liz the Squeak 24 Sep 04 - 03:47 PM
McGrath of Harlow 24 Sep 04 - 04:02 PM
Fliss 24 Sep 04 - 05:58 PM
GUEST 31 Dec 05 - 09:17 PM
Malcolm Douglas 31 Dec 05 - 10:52 PM
Manitas_at_home 01 Jan 06 - 02:44 AM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Jan 06 - 04:25 PM
Joybell 01 Jan 06 - 04:42 PM
Liz the Squeak 01 Jan 06 - 05:32 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Jan 06 - 06:41 PM
Lanfranc 01 Jan 06 - 07:39 PM
Liz the Squeak 02 Jan 06 - 06:05 AM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Jan 06 - 09:23 AM
Liz the Squeak 02 Jan 06 - 05:46 PM
GUEST,Jon 02 Jan 06 - 07:10 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Jan 06 - 07:12 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Jan 06 - 07:19 PM
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Subject: Linden Lea & Rowan Tree
From: Fliss
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 08:24 AM

I do like the Irish music, but at the Forresters on a Tuesday nite we do all sorts of music & song.

I keep meaning to learn some songs that I sang at school - in the days when we all sang folk songs.

Linden Lea is a favourite of mine. Ive got the tune ok but must brush up on words.

Nother fav is Rowan Tree. so I ought to have a go at that too.

Do you think the sisters would mind PCS?

fliss xx


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Subject: RE: Linden Lea
From: jacqui.c
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 08:33 AM

If I've done the clicky right you can find the words here:-0.8510 - Thread - Message - Lyr Add: LINDEN LEA ^^ - Nov 21 1998 11:08PM -   NonMember - or go into search and just put in Linden Lea.

It's certainly a beautiful tune and one of the ones not heard enough nowdays.
    Well, you didn't do the link right, but I fixed it.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Linden Lea
From: Fiolar
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 08:38 AM

Try and get hold of The Yetties' version of Linden Lea - it's the best.


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Subject: RE: Linden Lea
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 03:47 PM

But it's definately NOT Irish... it's as Dorset as its author, William Barnes.

And me.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Linden Lea
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 04:02 PM

As Fliss rather implied when he wrote we do all sorts of music & song.

And the best version I've ever heard of the song is that by Dave Goulder (who wrote "The January Man") on his CD Stone, Steam and Starlings. You know the way you can hear a song for years, and then hear someone singing it, and it's the first time you've ever really heard it - hearing Dave sing this song was a case of that for me.


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Subject: RE: Linden Lea
From: Fliss
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 05:58 PM

Oi McGrath, sir/madam... Im not an he but a she...

Will have to look out for the versions. Do like 'January Man'.

Thanks for link Jacqui. Already had words, was just saying I should re learn them.

What prompted my memory of the song was buying a little publication called 'Evergreen' on the sales stall at WI the other month. It has article on Barnes and the song lyrics.

Nice little publication "of miscellany of this and that and things gone by". Its got quite a lot of poems & songs. Seem to remember article on it being on Country File or Midlands Today or something like that.

I suppose nostalgia comes with the increasing years and songs we sang in the 50s and 60s at school harked back to an even older era when England seemed a "green and pleasant land"! The little booklet seems to enshrine this.

Agree with you McGrath about listening to songs and then suddenly realising what they are about.

Its surprising how a slightly different handling of a song can change its emphasis. I love the Dubliners, but a lot of their versions are raucous and when sung more delicately songs like Raglan Road, Holy Ground shine for their words.

Waxing lyrical tonite... better than waxing anything else I suspect!

cheers me dears

Fliss

PS
Bought myself a copy of Angela's Ashes going to try and do a bit of reading over the weekend. Need to get rid of the tail end of cold & chest infection. Bruises from headbutting the brick pile in the garden have faded, but still got sore head & cricky neck. Poor old sod aint I.


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Subject: Lyr Add: LINDEN LEA (W Barnes, R V Williams)
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 05 - 09:17 PM

Linden Lea
Music by Ralph Vaughan Williams
Words by William Barnes

Within the woodlands, flowery gladed,
By the oak tree's mossy moot,
The shining grass-blades, timber-shaded,
Now do quiver under foot;
And birds do whistle overhead,
And water's bubbling in its bed,
And there for me the apple tree
Do lean down low in Linden Lea.

When leaves that lately were a-springing
Now do fade within the copse,
And painted birds do hush their singing
Up upon the timber tops;
And brown-leaved fruit's a-turning red,
In cloudless sunshine, overhead,
With fruit for me, the apple tree
Do lean down low in Linden Lea.

Let other folk make money faster
In the air of dark-roomed towns,
I don't dread a peevish master;
Though no man do heed my frowns,
I be free to go abroad,
Or take again my homeward road
To where, for me, the apple tree
Do lean down low in Linden Lea.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Linden Lea
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 31 Dec 05 - 10:52 PM

That was a kind thought, but not necessary. The words have been posted here several times (see links above) in both the standard English and dialect forms. All discussions are archived and easily available: see links above.

It was worth mentioning Ralph Vaughan Williams, who wrote the music that made it famous. Nobody else who contributed to this old thread had bothered to do that.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Linden Lea
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 02:44 AM

Guest did!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Linden Lea
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 04:25 PM

I think that it comes across much more powerfully in standard Englishj spelling, rather than with Barnes's Dorset spelling.

If you've got a Dorset accent, it'd come out as Dorset anyway. And if you haven't, it's better to sing it in whatever accent you do have, rather than trying to Mummerset it up.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Linden Lea
From: Joybell
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 04:42 PM

Hildebrand has been singing this song for years. (When he can get through it for crying). He always sings everything in his own American Midwest accent. It's just as powerfull this way too. This year our apple trees do bend down low with fruit for us and I'll be singing that line all Summer and Autumn. Hildebrand dreams about plucking apples straight from the tree. He adores apples. Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Linden Lea
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 05:32 PM

Mummerset? MUMMERSET????!!!! Wessex would have been slightly more acceptable, but MUMMERSET?? You should be ashamed of yourself!

It's not Dorset spelling, it's dialect. There is a difference.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Linden Lea
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 06:41 PM

Mummerset is what people speak or sing when they are trying to sound nglish rural. Moves between Norfolk, Devon and Shropshire at the speed of light.

Spelling is what I'm talking about here - it's quite possible to write dailect words and dialect constructions in standard spelling. But attempts to work out ways of writing English that indicate pronuncation always seem to backfire. I remember Tim Laycock saying he'd found that native Dorset speakers faced with standard spelling of Barnes poems found no difficulty in reading them aloud in broad Dorset - but had a hell of a job managing the same poems written in Barnes's gallant attempt to get the speech down of paper in black and white.

And then there's the related business of people misinterpreting dialect spelling as somehow insulting. For example someone will see "Gib" or "de" in place of "give" and "the", and feel angry, even though in fact that may well be the way they actually pronounce the words themselves. Standard English spelling may be illogical and arbitrary, but everyone knows in practice that you don't have to read the words the way they look, you can use the spelling as a prompt for saying them the way they are said in your part of the world.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Linden Lea
From: Lanfranc
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 07:39 PM

I first sang "Linden Lea" at school aged 12. In the same class was a lad by name Jones NJ, since better known as Nic Jones. He and I were lucky, as were most of our generation in England at the time, in that the singing of English folk song was encouraged in schools. There was a schools radio programme called "Singing Together" that was, for me, one of the high points of the week when I was in primary school.

Nowadays, if schoolkids have any music lessons at all, they are steered in the direction of rap more often than anything with any connection with their heritage. My wife, a teacher, was once again horrified to discover that few in her class knew any traditional Christmas Carols.

If asked, most English kids today would say that a dialect is a monster in "Doctor Who"!

O tempora, O mores!

Alan


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Linden Lea
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 06:05 AM

I AM English rural and I've never sung in Mummerset in my life!!

But I do accept your comments about dialect and Queens' English. After all, when you've been brought up speaking proper all your life, suddenly being confronted by the language of a half German monarch who wouldn't know a peggle if they trod on one, would be confusing.

Same goes for Chaucer.... how many people could understand him these days?

LTS


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Linden Lea
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 09:23 AM

Same goes for Chaucer.... how many people could understand him these days?

I suspect it wouldn't take that long, actually listening to him, rather than trying to read him. If we could make sense of Rab C Nesbitt, I'm sure we could manage Geoffrey. It's largely the spelling that puts us off.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Linden Lea
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 05:46 PM

There you go... I have to watch Rab C Nesbitt with the subtitles on.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Linden Lea
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 07:10 PM

He and I were lucky, as were most of our generation in England at the time, in that the singing of English folk song was encouraged in schools. There was a schools radio programme called "Singing Together" that was, for me, one of the high points of the week when I was in primary school.

Perhaps I'm reading something into this that is not there... What years did you have Singing Together? They always encouraged folk songs (in the English laguage) but in my years and later, I would not describe the effort as specifically "English Folk Song". In my time they also had English translations/ adaptations of "foreign language" songs. Even in the earliest edition I have to hand (Spring 1967), I find Lisa Lan (Welsh) and Ho-La-Hi (German). Then of course in the same pamphlet we have Jim-along-Josie (American) and Queen Mary (Scots) on top of that.


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Subject: Lyr Add: MY ORCHA'D IN LINDEN LEA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 07:12 PM

I watch with the subtitles too, because that way I get more of the jokes. But even without the subtitles the sense still comes across pretty well. (If that's the right word...) It seems sometimes the ear can pick up meaning while the eyes are struggling to put the sounds together.

Familiar spellings take us straigt to the men aimng, andtehn we translate that bacl into the sounds that go with that meaning.
..................

For any one reading this who isn't familiar with William Barnes Dorset dialect in print, here is Linden Lea as he wrote it originally:

    MY ORCHA'D IN LINDEN LEA

    'Ithin the woodlands, flow'ry gleaded,
    By the woak tree's mossy moot,
    The sheenen grass-bleades, timber-sheaded,
    Now do quiver under voot ;
    An' birds do whissle over head,
    An' water's bubblen in its bed,
    An' there vor me the apple tree
    Do lean down low in Linden Lea.

    When leaves that leately wer a-springen
    Now do feade 'ithin the copse,
    An' painted birds do hush their zingen
    Up upon the timber's tops;
    An' brown-leav'd fruit's a-turnen red,
    In cloudless zunsheen, over head,
    Wi' fruit vor me, the apple tree
    Do lean down low in Linden Lea.

    Let other vo'k meake money vaster
    In the air o' dark-room'd towns,
    I don't dread a peevish measter;
    Though noo man do heed my frowns,
    I be free to goo abrode,
    Or teake agean my hwomeward road
    To where, vor me, the apple tree
    Do lean down low in Linden Lea.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Linden Lea
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 07:19 PM

As I meant to write there:

Familiar spellings take us straight to the meaning, and then we translate that back into the sounds that go with that meaning.


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