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Subject: Tune Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: GUEST,guest Date: 13 Oct 04 - 03:12 AM Can anyone shine a little light on the subject of project your voice. When I see a good singer on stage, I really get the urge to sing my heart out but I just can't seem to get any volume with out going way out of tune. There sure must be a few of you regular performers that could give a few tips.............. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: Jeanie Date: 13 Oct 04 - 04:23 AM I think the very best way for everyone to make the most of their voice is to go to a voice class or have one-to-one tuition with a voice teacher. The written word can only go so far in describing what to do and what not to do. Depending on where you live in the world, there are organizations which have lists of recognized voice teachers in your locality. If that isn't possible, practical or financial reasons, a video course can be a good idea. There is a very good one by Patsy Rodenburg, Head of Voice at the National Theatre and the Guildhall School of Music & Drama, called: "A Voice of Your Own", produced by Vanguard Productions, P.O. Box 70 Norwich NR1 2FD. As far as books are concerned, the very best I have found is: "The Voice Book" by Michael McCallion, publ. Faber & Faber, which is used as a set text in a lot of drama and music schools. It is directed to "everyone who wants to make the most of their voice", whether for the spoken word or for singing, and is packed full of exercises, starting with the body posture and breathing. He is very hot on standing/sitting in a way which will free the voice, before moving on to anything else. There's a new book coming out at the start of next year by sound therapist and voice teacher Stewart Pearce, who is "Master of Voice" at Shakespeare's Globe Theatre in London, called: "The Alchemy of Voice". The title alone sounds intriguing and I think that would be another good one to look out for. Hope this helps. All good wishes, - jeanie |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: Geoff the Duck Date: 13 Oct 04 - 04:48 AM A lot depends on what type of singing you wish to do. Some people do naturally have a "loud" voice" but there are a number of different techniques which can help to amplify your natural volume level. The secret to most techniques starts with correct breathing. If your lungs are being squashed due to your body position - slouching forward, hunched etc. you will not have enough air in them to allow you to project, or to hold a note. If you are bending your head down to look at your chest (singing into your boots), you will be constricting your windpipe, and you will also not be able to sing as loud. Both of these can often be combined with lack of confidence. Sit or stand up straight, with shoulders back and note the difference in the shape and position of your rib cage and chest. You can pull air into your lungs by expanding your rib cage, but this doesn't produce as much control as using your diaphragm (the layer of muscle which separates your chest cavity from where your intestines live. Breathing from "the stomach" is what enables singers, brass players etc. to hold and control a long note. It also allows you to sing/play a longer number of words/notes before you need to take another breath. Once you are breathing properly, what you do with a note is changed by different factors. We all have a personal range of notes we can use for singing. Some people have deeper or higher voices. Others have a wide or limited range. I am sure that the "trained" singers will tell us that if taught correct techniques, it is possible to extend your own natural range, but that is beyond my personal experience. I have discovered that certain parts within the range of notes I can sing are "stronger" than others. Also that a song which sounds fine sung realtively quietly at home will disappear into the background noise when sung out. Often this can be overcome by starting a couple of notes higher in the scale, where the natural resonance is slightly different, but holds up better in a larger air space. (must dash - might give more thoughts later) Quack! GtD. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: s&r Date: 13 Oct 04 - 05:17 AM Untrained singers often go out of tune in trying to sing loudly. I agree with the previous postings, but would just add don't try to achieve volume - look for clarity and sing without strain. The volume will increase anyway as your singing muscles develop. Even with a teacher the development of your voice is a slow process. Good luck Stu |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: Geoff the Duck Date: 13 Oct 04 - 05:19 AM Singing out of tune may be due to you trying to sing in a key which doesn't suit the range of your voice, i.e. the key in which somebody else sings a song will be chosen to suit their voice, but will not necessarily be one which you can sing in. You may have better luck in a lower or higher key. Alternatively, people go out of tune due to poor breath control, often due to the lack of breathing technique mentioned in my previous posting. If your breathing is restricted, you are less able to control the note which emerges, and it is more likely to go out of tune. Volume is another issue. Some singers do not sing particularly loudly. They encourage the audience to quieten down to a level where the song can be heard. With some audiences this will not happen. Quack!! Geoff. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: GUEST,guest Date: 13 Oct 04 - 08:39 AM Thank you all for your comments, funnily enough I never thought much about breathing. It may sound very odd to you trained singers but I was concentrating on the words and staying in tune. I am very interested in this breathing idea, I finacialy can not run out and start paying for teachers but maybe be someone could suggest some where on the net to give more insight to this breathing technique?? I am very interested to read more, and try a few new things out. Thanks again for taking the time, very much appreciated !!!! K |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: GUEST,MMario Date: 13 Oct 04 - 09:03 AM volume and projection, while often going hand in hand do not necessarily do so (at least that seems to be the case for me) I can't tell you *HOW* - but I sometimes go for volume (almost always a mistake)- sometimes for projection - and they have completly different "feels" - and I know I can project widely for much longer then I can hike the volume. Clarity is a lot of it - and something about the tone (not pitch - but tone) |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: Morticia Date: 13 Oct 04 - 09:28 AM There are masses of really good threads here on breathing technique, might be an idea to go and look at some of them.......I know I learned a lot and it's generally acknowledged that I have a 'big' voice......damn thing has a life of it's own, in fact! The trick, for me, was learning to breathe from my diaphragm......think of it as breathing in and out without moving your ribcage, then you can feel where it is. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: Liz the Squeak Date: 13 Oct 04 - 09:37 AM Morty has it, more or less. She used to be quite loud, but with not much body, now it's louder and gutsy... she has, if I may be so bold, bottom. The diaphragm is the most misunderstood bit of singing... you really do need to learn how to use it. Having said that, learning to sing quietly but accurately is harder. Opening the mouth well is a good start, but gaping like Brian Blessed on speed isn't. It is possible to make a loud noise through a relatively small hole, it all depends on what support you have underneath it. This is where the diaphragm comes in. Keep persevering and one day it will come. LTS |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: GUEST,MMario Date: 13 Oct 04 - 09:42 AM indeed - after a day of hawking (loud calls to advertize) my booth at ren-faire my diaphraghm hurts - mainly because I don't keep it in shape - then abuse it for 8 to 10 hours at a stretch. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: GUEST,Raggytash Date: 13 Oct 04 - 09:58 AM At the age of about 18 I got the best advice I've ever had regarding projection of my voice. It came from Ted Edwards a long time friend who worked the folk clubs of the North West(England) It went thus "pick out t'best looking bird on t'back row and sing to 'er, if she can hear yu everyone else can" Over a very short period of time my projection grew immensely and I've never forgotten those pearls of wisdom |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: GUEST,MMario Date: 13 Oct 04 - 10:03 AM a director I worked with at high school drama performances told cast members - "pretend your sibling is at the back of the hall -and you want them to hear you insult them, but you *DON'T* want your mom behind you to hear...use that voice" |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: Geoff the Duck Date: 13 Oct 04 - 10:06 AM Hardly a trained singer. House trained maybe. Actually I learned to breathe whem I was playing a brass instrument. It is just one of those things which is useful in other spheres of music, as is reading the dots, although for that you also need to reprogramme your fingers for a different type of instrument. Quack!! GtD |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: GUEST,MMario Date: 13 Oct 04 - 10:11 AM K - Alice will probably chime in here sooner or later - she probably has the most information "at her fingertips" as it were - checking the older threads is good as well - |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 13 Oct 04 - 10:11 AM This is an issue of great currency for me. I have a strong voice (some would call it loud) and don't have a lot of trouble projecting, even without amplification. That's come from many years of singing, more than any training or conscious effort to control my breathing. I think all of the advice in here is great, though. My situation these days is that for the last year, I've been doing a monthly gospel program in a nursing home, and it can be a real challenge at times. A few of the residents like to "sing along," which I don't want to discourage. Unfortunately one of the men has Downs Syndrome and doesn't sing any words, and he sings melodies in his own head, in a different key. He always sits in the fron row, too. Another man used to be a musician and really gets into the music. He's had a stroke which has left him unable to say any recognizable words, and he too sings his own internal melody. When the two of them really get into a song, it's a battle to sing louder than they do, without becoming so distracted that I forget words. I can handle it pretty well (must have been all those years of trying to sing louder than the hecklers,) but a friend has started to come with me to sing, and he dissassembles under the stress. He doesn't have a strong voice, and he is not comfortable performing in front of people (or even singing in our living room.) I've continued to encourage him to project more strongly, and perhaps I can use some of the suggestions in this thread to help him. He's not in a position to take voice lessons right no, and his life has really collapsed on his head, this lasty year. I tell him that this experience will really be good for him, if he doesn't get discouraged because he is being forced to learn how to project his voice more, and concentrate on the song and the message, rather than be completely distracted by the audience. I believe he will become a much better singer, and I already see some improvement. Maybe that's another technique the voice instructors won't tell you about. Try singing while operating a jack hammer, busting up concrete. Sometimes survival can be a good teacher. Jerry |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: GUEST,MMario Date: 13 Oct 04 - 10:31 AM or while disk-harrowing a corn-field. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: PoppaGator Date: 13 Oct 04 - 12:22 PM Another untrained singer (like Geoff and Jerry) chiming in: I'm a great believer in STANDING UP, although I suppose that sitting up STRAIGHT is almost as good for keeping your windpipe open and unobstructed. If you're bent over, your airflow will be restricted, with negative impact on your volume, your range, and your tone. Using your imagination, surprisingly enough, really seems to work for projection -- if you "aim" your voice at something or somebody far away and straight in front of you, your voice will actually carry more strongly, and in the desired direction. Imagining that you're reaching out to your sibling at the back of the room is an idea I hadn't heard before, but it sounds like an excellent idea. Years ago, singing on the street, I used to try projecting to the tops of distant office buildings -- ridiculous, of course, but even though I'm sure I never actually reached those buildings, I know my ability to reach listeners in my immediate area was enhanced. More recently, when I had an opportunity to sing with a rock/soul band with a big horn section, I began to imagine my head and torso as yet another wind instrument in the band. I even went so far as to "tune up" (actually, *warm* up my voice) by scatting along with the trumpets, trombones, and saxes, just repetitively intoning notes at the top and bottom of my range. During the two years I was part of that emsemble, I learned to sing louder than ever, and (more importantly) to sing loud more easily. I even discovered that my *range* improved when singing loud and singing "like a horn," without straining for the added volume. Straining to be loud would normally decrease one's range, but learning to really open up your throat, and to sing loud without straining, can actually extend it. In the end, it all comes down to experience, i.e., lots of practice -- but not to practice bad habits. Be consicous of your posture and your breathing, use your imagination to project your voice, keep at it, and try to *gradually* extend your vocal reach. I once found an excellent website where someone selling voice lessons provided a great deal of good free advice -- sort of a free first lesson -- in hopes of enticing people to purchase the full course. I intended to find the site and include a link in this message, but was not able to come up with it. Maybe a more persistent web-searcher could locate some useful instruction -- there's probably more than one such site out there somewhere. |
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Subject: RE: Advice Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: leeneia Date: 13 Oct 04 - 06:45 PM A professional told me to join a regular choral group, and that is excellent advice. I joined a church choir, and it has done wonders for my voice and enriched my life. And I'm not religious, just a searcher. |
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Subject: RE: Advice Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: alanww Date: 13 Oct 04 - 08:08 PM I am untrained but got a reasonable volume in my voice by practice and more practice at maximum volume on the way to work in the car, using deep breathing, as suggested by Morticia and Geoff the Duck. I increased my lower range more or less in a similar manner and by attempting to sing base harmonies in unaccompanied song sessions. I also believe in standing up, as advocated by PoppaGator. What, me LOUD? "I like to rise when the sun she rises...!" Alan |
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Subject: RE: Advice Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: PoppaGator Date: 13 Oct 04 - 09:20 PM Singing in the car -- excellent strategy! Be as loud (and as lousy) as you want, and get in lots of practice. This assumes that you're driving alone, not with impressionable children, other family memebrs, friends you'd like to keep, etc. |
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Subject: RE: Advice Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: Bert Date: 13 Oct 04 - 10:01 PM What I do an awful lot is use some microphone technique. Hold the mic close to your chin just below your mouth and listen to the feedback. Move it closer on quieter passages and move it away when you get louder. Also remember that a very small moment of silence can sometimes work wonders to make a noisy audience quieten down. If all that fails then stand up and take a really deep breath and sing something that's well within your vocal range. And if you're singing and find that you are just not going to make that note, then SHOUT it instead of singing it. |
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Subject: RE: Advice Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 14 Oct 04 - 12:48 AM .. and have a reat, cause you hay have just starined your voice if you don't know how to 'shout with projection'.... |
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Subject: RE: Advice Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: Jeanie Date: 14 Oct 04 - 04:54 AM It can sometimes be forgotten that by trying to stand or sit up straight, a singer or speaker can over-compensate and produce restrictions to vocal freedom that he was trying to avoid - different ones from those brought on by slouching, but restrictions nevertheless: - If you pull the small of your back in (in attempting to "stand up straight") you are forced to breathe mostly in the upper chest, however aware you may be of using your diaphragm, and the back loses a lot of its width at the point where the lungs are largest, leading to shrillness and lack of rich resonance; - When people try to "stand up straight" they are often tempted to lock their knees, creating a tightening of other muscles, including the muscles of the glottis, in a knock-on effect; - If you pull your head back, in trying to be "straight" when taking a breath to speak or sing, this has the effect of closing part of the throat and puts the larynx in a poor state of relationship with the breath. Even if the movement you make is very small, it has a profound influence on the sound you produce: it leads to lack of control of the soft palate and the tone you produce will be overly nasal. This also leads to a strain in the higher notes and a generally thin resonance. INSTEAD: *drop* the jaw when taking a breath to speak or sing. I think it's important to stop *trying* to do anything. Learning to use your voice well, as nature created it, means learning "not to do" rather than "doing". As soon as you think of it in terms of "doing something", a tension is created, which restricts vocal freedom. That's why voice teachers are so fond of the Alexander Technique: a way of re-creating the relationship between the head, neck and back which nature intended, which will release your voice to its full and beautiful potential, too. - jeanie |
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Subject: RE: Advice Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: ossonflags Date: 14 Oct 04 - 05:52 AM All good positive advice ! A couple or three tips that could work for you. Like anything else you want to do well, prepare. I realise this is going to open another debate up but here goes.Throw away the laptops, lever arch files and assorted paperwork and try and learn the songs,reading a song fom a piece of paper means you do not know it.I equate learning a song to learning how to drive a car, when you pass your test you are only starting to learn to drive.learning the words to a song is only the beginning to learning and understanding the song.Get this right and hopefully it will increase your confidence which should lead you to project better. The voice is like any other part of your body, before use it needs warming up.So before you start, try a warming up exercise of humming a song to yourself, dont laugh but I use "Somewere over the rainbow" or the "White cliffs of Dover" Try not to be the first person to start, joining in with a couple of chorus songs should get you well warmed up. As has been suggested find a key that suits you,if you know the key the song is in ask some kind person in the group with a guitar or other instrument to give you it.Failing that carry a pitch pipe,good investment at a coupla bob. Posture is vital, if you are slumped in a chair looking at the ground you will only project to the the floor. I realise that a lot of people lack the confidence to stand up and sing, so try sitting up straight and hold your head up, not back. Above all practice breathing using your diaphragm. If you do stand up use the room, project your voice over the heads of the company at a corner . This can act as your personal sounding board. Again posture, stand up straight, feet slighly apart untill you feel balanced and comfortable, head up and away you go! And practice, practice, practice............................! |
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Subject: RE: Advice Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: Peter T. Date: 14 Oct 04 - 08:39 AM One interesting thing is that in the theatre one learns that projection is mostly about articulation. If you articulate your consonants very strongly, you can whisper and be heard at a great distance. That is the "secret" to projection in the theatre. However, I have discovered in taking singing lessons that you need to be very careful not to articulate your consonants because it breaks the flow of the vowels, upon which the singing voice works. Interesting dilemma for a theatre trained person -- took me awhile to get the hang of it. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: Advice Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: Jacob B Date: 14 Oct 04 - 02:21 PM Here's one thing you can try to learn how to breath from the diaphragm. Lie down on your back (the wonderful thing about the internet is that you can say that without it sounding like an indecent proposition.) You see, we're all born knowing how to breathe correctly. A newborn baby has no trouble making itself heard in the next room. Over time we learn the "wrong" way to breathe, and it becomes a habit - but there is still one position in which everyone breathes correctly, and that's when we lie on our backs. So lie on your back, and just breath deeply in and out for a while. Pay attention to how your belly is moving, and what it feels like. After a while, take a deep breath in, and then sing a note as you breathe out. Don't try for volume, you're just trying to experience what it feels like to create a sound from your diaphragm. Do this for a while. Finally, stand up and try singing the same way, letting a sound come out when you breathe out, and trying to have the same feeling of your belly moving in and out, and the air coming from it. I hope this helps Jacob |
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Subject: RE: Advice Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton Date: 14 Oct 04 - 03:01 PM With reluctance I reply. It's really tricky. Of course a good voice teacher. But one of the most important things is .....don't overtax your voice by yelling, shouting, and forcing. Folk singing can ruin your voice if done incorrectly because it has an attitude associated with it that makes it seem like a shout or an "outdoor voice". Projection is not necessarilly volume. It is vocal balance free of tension. Jeannie is right about the Alexander technique. Problem. You hear blues shouters and high-edged rock singers and bluegrass singers and they may be hurting their voices. One thing, don't throw your head back while you are singing because you are putting strain on the larynx. And then there is Louis Armstrong, perhaps Dave Van Ronk, Tom Waits and Bob Dylan. Also, Led Zep and other well-known rock singers. Louis managed to keep his voice for a long time but it sounded well....like Louis. Frank |
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Subject: RE: Advice Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: chinatogalway Date: 15 Oct 04 - 01:04 AM Jacob, very interesting ! I will definately try this. I understand alot of what has been said and GREAT advice. As someone who grew up hugely embarrassed to sing a note I am very eager to feel confident with this breathing approach. I must admit though that this breathing from the diaphram is a very odd thing to get your body to do, is it not? How do you breathe in and not fill your lungs with air.........I am sure many of the trained singers here find it second nature, but how did you start this breathing technique?? is there a simple excercise to start someone off, and that will clear this breathing from the diaphram |
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Subject: RE: Advice Req: projecting your voice, how?? From: GUEST,DavidfromSydney Date: 15 Oct 04 - 01:59 AM Breathing from the diaphragm is not about not filling your lungs with air. It's about using different muscles to do this. I have been having Buteyko treatment for emphysema for some time now. Buteyko is mainly about learning to breathe properly, and interestingly enough it emphasises the same thing that I was taught as a boy soprano many years ago. Breathe from the diaphragm. Place your hand on your stomach, feel the movement there as you breathe in and out rather than your shoulders and upper chest. It's a discipline that I had to relearn, and takes practice. Practice whenever you have a spare moment. Sit down, relax your shoulders, put your hands on your knees, look ahead and slightly down (relaxes the upper airways). Breathe in...feel your stomach push out, pause...breathe out by pushing your stomach in. Buteyko also emphasises breathing through the nose, not the mouth. This is not practical while singing, but certainly very valuable at other times. I get far fewer colds than I used to and to that extent the quality of my voice has improved. I still sing, but I find that lack of breath (I have about 35% lung function left) has restricted my range somewhat, and I have to rehearse songs from the point of view of learning to phrase them, and deciding where I will take breaths (something that I never had to think about before). You may find that doing this will also help your ability to project. |
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