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Subject: Chord Req: How to breathe From: Jocia Date: 11 Aug 04 - 03:34 PM I have previously read the majority of all the replies people have sent in put there is one thing that keeps bothering me I have a strong voice but when I sing I'm ususally out of breath, my vision gets blurry and I have no idea where am I singing from can someone help me how to breath? Do my ribs stay still and my stomah is the only thing moving? Or do I tighten my abs and expand my a little? HELP!! |
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Subject: RE: Chord Req: How to breathe From: Alice Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:42 PM Jocia, lay on the floor, sing a little, and focus on how you are breathing now when you sing. Do your lift your shoulders when you breath in? They should stay relaxed and down. Can you feel your ribs expand and the lower part of your tummy move down and out? That is what should be happening when you take in a breath. You have to learn to relax while you are breathing correctly as well as while you are singing. It takes time and practice to retrain and strengthen the muscles that you are not used to using. Practice while singing scales on ooh or aah, then on singing passages of songs you know. Be aware of the phrasing of the melody and the logical breathing spots in the lyrics and tune. When the tummy pulls down and relaxes out, your diaphram moves out of the way so your lungs (and rib cage) can expand fully. Then, the air can be controlled as it is used to send a stream of sound through your vocal cords. This is much easier to understand if you have a teacher there in person to show you what you are doing wrong and how to do it correctly. Good luck. Alice Flynn |
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Subject: Singing: How to breathe From: Turlough Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:42 PM Hm, I must admit that you fooled me with this Subject line. I really thought there was some obscure folksong with the even more obscure name "How to breathe"... But now I see you meant (vocal) cord request, not chord request! ;-) I'm not a great singer myself, but a friend once gave me the advice to "sing through your nose" when you run out of breath. That way, you lose less air, so you can carry on longer. It worked for me, more or less... T.
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Chord Req: How to breathe From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 12 Aug 04 - 09:37 AM Diaphragm Control! - is needed for Singers, and players on any Wind Instrument that is Mouth (or Nose!) Blown. And Petomain had other methods of control... |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: GUEST, Hamish Date: 13 Aug 04 - 02:43 AM Some hints and tips here (http://www.lombardy.clara.net/breathing/index.htm) |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: GUEST, Hamish, again Date: 13 Aug 04 - 03:04 AM ...and there's this previous thread |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 13 Aug 04 - 10:01 AM Um, how soon do you get out of breath? Either you are trying to sing phrases which are too long, or you need to see the doctor. It worries me when you say your vision gets blurry. I suppose it is safe to say that the average person can sing a complete sentence in the average song, unless it has a final note which is more than 4 (or maybe 6) counts long. Can you do that? |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 13 Aug 04 - 12:23 PM Preplan the song you are practicing. Decide where the breaths come. Usually they will be at the end of a line. Don't leave the breathing to chance or what you might feel like at the time of singing. Now, how do you take the breath? NOT through your nose, and not through a minimally opened mouth, and not by expanding the chest. EMPHATICALLY not by expanding the chest. Open the mouth and throat, at the time suddenly expanding the abdomen by means of the diaphragm, which will draw in a great draft of air into your lungs. I hope that description is clear. It should give you a full breath. Don't take little sips of air. Done properly, this takes very little time in a tiny pause at the end of a line. But practice singing a line and consciously doing such a breath, with no thought at that moment of going on to the next line. Then do that line and breath again. Done over and over, line-(breath) by line-breath) will help you get the feel of how the line should feel breathwise. If you MUST breathe in the middle of a line, it can be a smaller, partial breath, but middle-of-line breathing is to be avoided. Hope this is helpful. The results do repay the practice. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: GUEST,Wotcha Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:44 AM Last year I tried out for a Barbershop Quartet and they had a professional German voice instructor present. Since all I could sing was "folk" (nasal intonation and all), she cleverly pointed out how not to sing. Apparently, you should keep you feet apart, bend slightly, and use the diaphram for force the air over your vocal chords (rather like US Drill Sergeants); this relieves the pressure on the vocal chords. With practice it works, but I've given up on Barbershop Quartets for now ... Cheers, Brian |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: shepherdlass Date: 14 Aug 04 - 05:16 AM Jocia - Try breathing out hard, so emptying your lungs as completely as possible ... then feel what it feels like to let the air back in. You breathe naturally from your diaphragm in that situation - you just HAVE to refill your lungs fully. Remember how that feels and try to incorporate at the end of each line that sense of the air reaching the very bottom of your lungs. Not that I never run out of breath (I'm asthmatic anyway!) but it helps. |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: GUEST,Al Date: 14 Aug 04 - 10:43 AM Here's the first description that has ever made sense and worked for me: During a breath, try to feel the lower ribs in your back spreading apart. Al |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: Alice Date: 14 Aug 04 - 12:42 PM Brian, I'm glad you gave that technique up of forcing air over your vocal cords. Pushing air like that will eventually cause damage. |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: Liz the Squeak Date: 15 Aug 04 - 03:04 AM Practise taking in a large breath and then expelling it slowly, whilst saying or singing some phrase or other. I find myself singing (or thinking in my head if in a public place) a line from The Messiah - ' I know that my redeemer liveth' - it seems to take the right amount of time to expell a good breath (and stops me hyperventillating when I'm starting to panic - my surgeon thought I was a radical happy clappy Christian when he realised what I was saying to myself on the operating table!!!). Don't wear a tight waisted top or dress either. Men get the better deal because they get to wear DJ's in concerts, so have nothing preventing the expansion of chest or stomach. Ladies tend to go for nice fitting gowns that show off the assets but don't leave a lot of room for expansion. Like any other muscle, the diaphragm needs exercise to make it work more efficiently, so the more you practice, the better it will get (I have a habit now of "clenching" everything below the boobs, whilst sitting at my desk.... works wonders for the pelvic floor muscles too! LTS |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: Richard Bridge Date: 15 Aug 04 - 04:32 PM Rule one - avoid bullshit. Rule two - see rule one. Rule three - if you run out of breath you will have less control over your voice, so breathe before you run out of breath. Rule four - (to be continued, the microwave bell just rang) |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: Richard Bridge Date: 15 Aug 04 - 04:51 PM Rule four - try to figure out where in the song taking a breath will not disrupt the song. Section 5 - try to ignore all the pretentious crap you hear about "sing from the stomach" (oh really, it has no mouth), or "push from the diaphragm" (oh, really, having a baby too?) You need someone who thinks like you. My singing has been crap for years and no amount of psychobabble could help me. Someone I know who also thinks like an engineer explained a few things to me in engineering, scientific, terms I could relate to. Now I can try to do what I was being told might help. I ain't good, yet, but I think I can hear it making me less bad. |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: AggieD Date: 16 Aug 04 - 06:47 AM Do you warm up before you start to sing? Not just your vocal chords, but also your whole body. Try having a really goood stretch, reaching as high as possible with both arms, then reaching with one at a time. This helps to stretch & warm up the rib cage muscles. Don't overstreth yourself. An exercise I learnt many years ago from a very good teacher was to stand in relaxed posture, legs slightly apart, hands hanging heavy at your sides shoulders rolled back & down,expel as much air as you can(imagine a beach ball deflating), then push out your diaphragm as far as you comfotably can, not only forwards but all round your body. This exercise will help to strengthen the muscles that are normally underused, & if done regularly, you will eventually be able when you do go to sing to more naturally take deeper breaths. If you want more warm up techniques e-mail me & I will let you have a few more ideas. Ignore Richard, you do need to phrase a song with breath, otherwise it can totally ruin the meaning. If his voice is crap, then he should go to a decent teacher, or just stop singing. |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: Sooz Date: 16 Aug 04 - 07:50 AM Your diaphragm is naturally domed and flattens quite automatically when you breathe in. If you let your guts flop it gives it more space to do so. |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: s&r Date: 16 Aug 04 - 08:05 AM Sooz is right. Most important is to make sure that there's space for the diaphragm to flatten. Tight belts, trousers, corsets, large meals, etc fill your abdomen and push up into the ribcage. The breathlessness and blurred vision etc sounds like either lack of oxygen or hyperventilating. Stu |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: GUEST,Mark H Date: 24 Aug 04 - 06:59 AM Ok, first of all, Richard, why do singers on broadway etc subscribe to all that 'pretentious crap'if it doesn't work? What I want to know is, as you fill your diaphragm and push it out, should this automatically fill your lungs and therefore your rib cage? I always seem to be conciously breathing from my diaphragm but then conciously filling my rib cage too. Is this wrong? |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: GUEST Date: 24 Aug 04 - 12:07 PM Reply to original question from Jocia: This link is excellent - well worth the read: http://www.alexandercenter.com/pa/voice.html |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: Richard Bridge Date: 24 Aug 04 - 03:44 PM People who buy in to pretentious crap always think it works, like crystal pyramids and blessing mandolins. Now the science being hidden by the pretentious crap might work. But unless it is presented in testable quantifiable terms we will never know. All I ask is for it to be presented in simple mechanical terms. Without the psychobabble. Ye canna change the laws of physics, Jim. Then we can test it. A diaphragm is a birth control device. I ain't singing from that. And bel canto is no part of the tradition. |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: GUEST,Frank Date: 24 Aug 04 - 05:17 PM One of the interesting parts about the breath is that it is involuntary. This means that if left alone, the breath comes in naturally. If there is any attempt to "control" the breathing process, this amounts to tension that interferes with the process. Once natural breathing is allowed to happen and the voice hooks up with the intercostal expansion (that occurs naturally) then some measure of allowing the voice to phrase based on this support can be somewhat controlled. The process of breath support and the relaxation of the facial muscles, vowel placement, relaxed tongue, flexible jaw and elimination of inhibitory tension in the mask has to be dealt with by a good vocal teacher. Posture is important but not a rigid military stance. The shoulders and chest should be relaxed but up, not collapsed. I think in bel canto they call this the singer's "noble" stance. No inhibitory tension while standing this way. The extremes in vocal flaws are too much breathiness or belting, both injurious to the cords. Once the breath support (involuntary process) is available, the right amount of air goes through the cords which approximate and produce a solid natural sound. This then needs to be developed through exercises that free the sound and not inhibit it. It's tricky. There's a lot of psychology that goes into it. Alexander Technique is good. The best is to find the best vocal teacher you can by listening to students who study with him/her. I refer you to NATS (National Association of Teachers of Singing) which can be found on the website. Get a good teacher. Frank |
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Subject: RE: Bluegrass Singing technique From: Mark Clark Date: 24 Aug 04 - 06:45 PM I haven't seen this video but I did notice that Homespun now sells a bluegrass singing instructional video by Peter Rowan. I'm guessing that Peter emphasizes the sort of voice-saving and voice-enhancing techniques that the best trained singers among us have recommended. I don't know how Bill Monroe trained his voice but when you listen to Mac Wiseman or the late Charlie Waller, you know they didn't just belt out a song. - Mark |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: Don Firth Date: 24 Aug 04 - 08:26 PM Richard, this "pretentious crap" works if you understand it. The diaphragm, the main muscle with which you breath (check a good book on human anatomy) is semi-voluntary. Which is to say, most of the time you don't have to think about it, it just does its job. But it can be controlled—indirectly. Lots of people are shallow breathers, and the chronic shallow breather who attempts to sing is going to find himself or herself constantly running out of breath before a reasonable breathing point comes along (you can hear this in a lot of pop singers—and in folk singers as well—when they have to grab "catch-breaths" in mid-phrase and sometimes in mid-word). When these folks breathe, the diaphragm does move, but not to the extent that it can. Usually the person's ribs expand a bit and sometimes their shoulders actually move a bit when they breath, but this provides a very weak base for singing. Have you ever watched the abdomen of a dog when it's asleep? Or a baby? Natural breathers, without tension. When you "sing from the diaphragm," you haul in enough air that your abdomen moves out and your lower ribs expand, and you fill your lungs. It should actually feel like you're filling your abdomen as well. But don't suck in so much air that you overfill your lungs. Once you have a good lungful of air, you can actually "set" your abdominal muscles (and indirectly your diaphragm) and sing a long phrase without having to interrupt it for "catch breaths." If you can sing long phrases, you can decide where to breath so the song makes sense (called "phrasing"), and not have to worry about when you can breath next as you are quickly turning blue. Good breath control ("singing from the diaphragm") and a relaxed, open throat are the basic fundamentals of being able to sing well. Before you start singing, if you consciously relax your shoulders, take a couple of good, deep breaths (all the way to your belly-button), yawn a couple of times, and wobble your jaw a bit to make sure it's relaxed, it will improve your singing quite a bit. Opera singers (and opera and lieder [art song] are the two most technically difficult and physically demanding kinds of singing) concentrate a lot on good breath support, i.e., "singing from the diaphragm." They also keep their throats open and relaxed. That's why they're able to sing flat-out for a couple of hours, live to tell about it, and come back and do it again a day or two later. And keep doing it for years. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: GUEST,mackawood@yahoo.com Date: 09 Dec 04 - 07:28 PM what is the first steps and so on? |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Date: 09 Dec 04 - 08:05 PM Macawood, have you read through this thread, or the first of the related ones? That might explain! |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 10 Dec 04 - 06:37 AM I think you'll find that question may have been a deliberate attempt to get people to send that address an email for harvesting purposes - it's becoming very common these days. |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: dick greenhaus Date: 10 Dec 04 - 07:35 PM A very useful technique I've found is to seimply recite the lyric slowly, noting where natural pauses occur. Aids in avoiding breathlessness, as well as vastly improving phrasing. |
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Subject: RE: Singing technique: How to breathe From: GUEST,Anne Croucher Date: 11 Dec 04 - 06:10 PM a good trick to practice is making sounds when breathing in - most people can inhale and still produce some vowel sounds. I think 'O' is easiest. If you are running out of air rather than overinhaling you can then snatch a little breath to get you to the next natural pause without there being a silence. I can breath in and sing 'its''you''my' or 'and' - I don't try to do this for a deep breath, the sound is more nasal than my normal voice, but it might account for the problems people have in singing with me. It is something I just do - I never thought about it until other singers asked me when I breathed. I do have a lung capacity rather larger than the expected volume, I assume from singing a lot, but breathing during a song is not something I have ever needed to worry about, what with remembering the words and the chords I leave everything else to the automatic systems. Anne |
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