BS: Bush is a religious fanatic

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: Chris Green
Date: 19 Oct 04 - 03:47 PM

Doug R - I agree that being a Methodist does not equal fanaticism. Neither does belonging to any of the other mainstream Christian sects. Or to Islam for that matter.

However, take a look at the many conflicts around the world - Northern Ireland, Israel/Palestine, and so forth. What swiftly becomes apparent is that it is in fact tribalism and self-interest that are the root causes. Religion is merely the excuse. George Bush, by using religion time and again to help justify what he has done and is doing in the Middle East, can in my book be labelled a fanatic. So can the fruitcakes who are going around beheading foreign workers in the name of Allah. Religion and politics are, in short, a bloody dangerous cocktail!

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: Amos
Date: 19 Oct 04 - 04:44 PM

Well said, Db!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: DougR
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 01:44 AM

I don't believe George Bush has used religion to justify anything! Name an example! He has merely stated on many occasions his own faith and how he relies on it in times of stress. I don't believe anyone can produce any proof that GWB has stated that he did one thing or another because God told him to.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: dianavan
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 01:52 AM

DougR - Are we talking about the same George Bush? The Texas Pretender? The one who claims to be a Christian? Methodists are methodical. Are you saying there is method to his madness?

d

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 02:29 AM

"If such as he in Heav'n may be, then welcome, hail, Damnation!" Robert Burns
I like that part of your query, dianavan ------"the one who claims to be a Christian". There are more false claimants stepping thro' the portals of the cold stone "churches" than genuine followers of the Christ.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: Amos
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 10:03 AM

...George W. Bush, the born-again Christian, apparently hears his mother's "he" as the providential He. According to Stephen Mansfield's sympathetic account in The Faith of George W. Bush, he then calls his friend, the Charismatic preacher James Robison, host of the TV show Life Today, and tells him, "I've heard the call. I believe God wants me to run for president."

...A month after the World Trade Center attack, World Magazine, a conservative Christian publication, quoted Tim Goeglein, deputy director of White House public liaison, saying, "I think President Bush is God's man at this hour, and I say this with a great sense of humility." Time magazine reported that "Privately, Bush even talked of being chosen by the grace of God to lead at that moment." The net effect is a theology that seems to imply that God is intervening in events, is on America's side, and has chosen Bush to be in the White House at this critical moment.

..Time magazine reported, "Privately, Bush talked of being chosen by the grace of God to lead at that moment." World Magazine, a conservative Christian publication, quoted White House official Tim Goeglein as saying, "I think President Bush is God's man at this hour, and I say this with a great sense of humility."

...In that speech, Bush said, "Freedom and fear, justice and cruelty, have always been at war, and we know that God is not neutral between them." The implication: God will intervene on the world stage, mediating between good and evil.
..Frum is quite open about the importance of fundamentalism in the Bush Administration. The first words he says he ever heard in the White House from George Bush were: "Missed you at Bible study." Frum writes, "Bush came from and spoke for a very different culture from that of the individualistic Ronald Reagan: the culture of modern Evangelicalism. To understand the Bush White House, you must understand its predominant creed."




Doug:

These are a few rapidly chosen samples from a search that revelas a continuous subtext of messianism and aspitrations to divine right on th epart of Bush, or for him by his right-wing admirers.

In my view this is extremely unhealthy stuff in the body politic.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: Amos
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 10:09 AM

One other interesting presentation of Bush's messianic and fanatic side is found in this essay on Bush Fundamentalism.

These are impressions of a nutball.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: Amos
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 11:22 AM

See also this thread on Saint George.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 12:10 PM

Bush is a Methodist as Bush is a conservative.

Seriously, Bush being a Methodist is a myth that seems top be circulating in Texas. In fact he rarely attends church services. He became devout after three days of intence councilling by Billy Graham. He has participated in a very evangelical Bible study since that time. Methodism is Laura's church but it is just a patina for George.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: Chris Green
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 02:18 PM

Just on the subject of divine guidance for leaders who claim to have a one to one with God. Can anyone quote me an instance where God has told them that what they're doing is wrong? Or, as I suspect, do they "hear" what they want to hear?

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: Amos
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 02:22 PM

HEll he couldn't even answer up to any item he has done wrong.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: Chris Green
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 02:39 PM

Oh, I'm not so sure. I'm sure it's all there in the Book of Vindications! :)

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 02:46 PM

Methodist? Maybe that's the demonination he belongs to, but it doesn't take listening to him or watching his actions very long to determine that he is much more of a Calvinist than a Methodist. Part of this includes the idea (and where, exactly, is the Scriptural basis for this?) that once you've been "born again," you are under God's guidance and are no longer capable of sin.

Now, in an American president or any other world leader, I call th kinda scary!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: Amos
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 02:51 PM

I think there is a stipulation in the New Testament somewhere that you have to come to Him with the eyes of a newborn child, be born again into innocence and freedom from sin, in order to be able to see.

But so many of his original statements have been twisted into hard policies meaning something else altogether that I won't vouch for any of it.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: DougR
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 04:07 PM

Opinions, Amos, opinions.

Bush has made it quite clear that he seeks divine guidance when making important decisions. So did Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, and probably every president that followed (not sure about Clinton of course). As one writer said in this thread, (paraphrasing) of course one might look for guidance and still make the wrong decision. However, as a Christian, I don't think it is unusual for one to ask for guidance during difficult times.

Jack the Sailor: I wasn't aware that you are so close to the first family that you could know such private things about them. How did you do that?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 06:47 PM

in 1982? I had a tape recorder near the TV during Mark Russell's election night program. All you need to do is substitute "Dubya" for "Reagan"
tune is "When the Roll is Called Up Yonder"

"We are television's fundamental preachers of this land,
With a message, Hallelujah, hear it well.
We are not endorsing candidates, we take a neutral stand...
...so vote for Reagan, or you'll go to Hell!"...
cho:
Go to Hell, that's our pronouncement.
Save yourselves from our denouncement.
This is an unpaid political announcement.
Wen the roll is called for Ronnie on the tube.

If you want to find salvation, tune to channel 98.
Live by satellite our message comes to you.
If you read between the lines, you'll find our candidate-
You'll be saved, if you vote for you-know-who.

cho:
You know who...that's our pronouncement
Save yourselves from our denouncement.
This is an unpaid political announcement.
Wen the roll is called for Ronnie on the tube.

We never give advice about your choices or your vote.
In politics, it's not ours to conspire.
So hurry out to vote; put on you hat, it's getting late-
It's either Reagan or the Everlasting Fire.

cho:
Oh the Fire. that's our pronouncement.
Save yourselves from our denouncement.
This is an unpaid political announcement.
Wen the roll is called for Ronnie on the tube.

If Jesus came today, he'd never make it on TV,
Without our suits, our hair, our smiles, our perfect tans..
Yes. he'd never be accepted without out haberdashery-
But thank the Lord, he's registered Republican!

cho:
Republican...that's out pronouncement-
Save yourselves from our denouncement.
This is an unpaid political announcement.
Wen the roll is called for Ronnie on the tube.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: Amos
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 07:02 PM

I t is one thing to check for Divine guidance, or cosmic harmony or whatever when making a decision.   I would do the same.

But I would never even think for a moment that "God wants me to be President". As if such a thing were possible!! These were were quotes straight out of your loonie-boy's mouth. Maybe you believe in the puppet-master version of the Almighty. I think it is blasphemous.

Opinions, yup. They kinda makie the world go 'round.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 08:13 PM

Could it be that he got God and Karl Rove mixed up?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 09:05 PM

Doug,

Is that a serious question? Why do you think I need to know the first family? I do watch the news.

I know he seldom goes to church because.
a. He says he seldom goes to church.
b. People who know his schedule say he seldom goes to church

It's not like he had the White House Bowling alley converted to a Methodist Church and they sneak the parisoners in there every Sunday morning and hold a service there.

I know he was in the Bible study for the same reason.
I know about Billy Graham from the news and from bios of Bush.

If I was that close to the first family I would know who attacked Bush with the pretzel.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: dianavan
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 10:27 PM

I wonder Bush has ever taken the time to thank God for anything?

d

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: Amos
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 11:01 PM

I am sure he has, dianavan. The problem is probably not in the things he thanks God for but in those he asks God for.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 04:37 AM

When Bush speaks to his god, he for sure is NOT speaking to Mine!

Subject: RE: BS: Bush is a religious fanatic
From: Amos
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 08:01 PM

The United States was attacked on Sept. 11, 2001, by Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda. The president responded by turning most of the nation's firepower on Saddam Hussein and Iraq. When Mr. Bush was asked by the journalist Bob Woodward if he had consulted with former President Bush about the decision to invade Iraq, the president replied: "He is the wrong father to appeal to in terms of strength. There is a higher father that I appeal to."

---

The above quote is recapped from a New York Times editorial.

I think he would have done better, in this case, consulting with his physical father.

A