BS: Newlywed Advice?

Subject: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: hesperis
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 01:59 PM

So, what horrible stories and blazing triumphs and nice quiet moments did you have when you were newlywed? What advice would you give to a couple starting out on this weird and wonderful strange trip through life?

Songs good too.

Thanks, I really need some Mudcat Cheer right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 02:20 PM

Our first 6 months was AWFUL...we fought and bickered and carried on like two complete idiots. Why? Who knows...new job, the idea of being with someone FOREVER (the reality of it I suppose)....I could pin it on those kinds of things but the truth is, I don't know why we didn't get along...we just didn't. We had lived together and knew each others good points and bad so I can't blame it on that either...we just didn't mesh. We did a lot of yelling (which solved nothing) and eventually just both settled down. We learned to talk things out (never had a big fight before we got married), give each other space and exactly how much and when to compromise. It was a miserable time and to be quite honest, I asked myself MANY times just exactly WHAT HAVE I DONE?!?!?!?!?

It's now 12 years later and we are very happily married. It's not always daisies and sunshine but for the most part, we are indeed, very happy. I'm glad I didn't kill him....er...uh...I mean, um...I'm glad I stuck it out and learned how to get past all the initial bickering and ridiculous stuff that we fought about.

Chin up....you married him for many reasons...think of those and keep those things in mind when it gets rough.

All my best,

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 02:26 PM

Don't go camping in a small tent for the honeymoon!
Giok [Don't ask]

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: DougR
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 02:27 PM

A drop is as good as a gallon.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: jimmyt
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 02:31 PM

Learn to be best friends with your spouse. My wife and I have worked on our friendship over the years and it will help you weather whatever storm comes along. I can't imagine what could be more important on my marriage. Try to look at things wrom both perspectives. This is, of course, impossible, but at least try to see things from your partner's perspective as well as yours. You would be surprised how many confilcts this will help resolve.

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: el_punkoid_nouveau
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 02:53 PM

The only advice I remember us getting from my Mother-in-law was "Don't ride a motorbike in the last month of pregnancy".

We took it.

epn

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 02:56 PM

I think Jimmyt is right on the money....my husband is my best friend as well...and as my husband likes to say, when you marry someone, you have agreed to ALWAYS consider the other person before deciding to do anything (my girlfriend calls this "deferring' but I think it's more of a common respect issue).

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: Davetnova
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 03:16 PM

Hesperis, listen carefully (a phrase of superteds[copyright]).
His wiggleybit that goes fairly hard goes in the little space behind the peey bit. you'll get it right from there

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: hesperis
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 06:02 PM

LilyFestre - thanks. We lived together before this too and really do love each other. I think it's just that we're living in a shoebox with the parents.

Davetnova - Er, we figured that out already. Thanks for the laugh though!

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 06:14 PM

AAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG.....living with the parents...NO NO NO....by ALL MEANS.....GET OUT OF THAT SITUATION ASAP!!! My mother-in-law lived with us for a year and a half.....that REALLY put a strain on the marriage....for your own sanity, save as fast as you can and get your own place....even if it's a one room shanty!!!!!!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 06:29 PM

Living with parents -- either set -- has got to be terribly difficult. I'm sure it's a problem; let's hope it turns out to be your only serious problem.

We've been married 32 years, which neither of us would have expected. We had only met five months earlier, and decided to "make it legal" for a couple of reasons not worth even trying to explain at this late date. We both had the attitude that more people get divorced than not, so -- if any problems were to develop -- why not us? We'd be glad to split up before suffering *any* undue strain at the effort to stay together.

All these years later, nevertheless, here we are, still together, still best friends, and neither of us has ever even felt it necessary to fight over much of anything.

I wish I knew why, knew any secret I could pass along -- as the old saying goes, I'd bottle it and make a fortune. I think it was just dumb luck that two compatible individuals stumbled upon each other; either that or we're both supremely wise and intelligent, and both easily resisted every temptation to hook up with anyone but the ideal partner.

Good luck to you two!

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: freightdawg
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 06:33 PM

Even after 20 years there are times that I think I cannot live another minute with the Mrs. Freightdawg.

And then I stop for 30 seconds and think what life would be without her.

SNIFF! WAHHHHHH!

Our rough spot came at about 6-7 years. It was hell there for a while. Divorce was briefly considered. Murder was....well, we'll leave that alone.    ; )

Point is the honeymoon is just a transition phase and it is largely based on too many decisions and not enough information. You are both bound to make some mistakes. Give each other space to learn. After awhile you will have all the information you need, which for him doesn't matter because by then she will be making all the decisions anyway (arrrghh, sorry about that, couldn't help it, my finger slipped on the keyboard).

Best of luck!

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 07:31 PM

Separate holidays. Spend at least one weekend away from each other.

The theory is you appreciate each other more when you get home, but the reality is, you are calmer because you got a good night's sleep without him stumbling in at 2.00am, stealing your best chocolate and snoring all night.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 07:48 PM

The name of the game is COMPROMISE! If you can't do that then you can't do marriage unless someone is totally submissive. That's not a good relationship.

Another thing is that you should share your interests but allow time for individual interests as well. I've known some people that wanted to never be apart but there's something wrong with that. One and one might figuratively make one but two objects can't occupy the same space at the same time. You'll need a break sooner or later and as soon as you both realize it the less painful it will be.

Not everything is going to be hunky dory. Meals will be missed or burned. Trains will be late. Promises will be proken whether or not you intend to. As long as it isn't the BIG PROMISE (for heavens sake be true to each other) you should be able to work through it, and whether you believe it or not it is work because you must keep working on the marriage. Don't get complacent!

And lastly, it helps to live a comfortable distance away from the relatives. One so that neither one of you feels like they can just go home to mother. Two, so that the relatives don't interfere with your marriage. You made a commitment to each other and you should face the world on your own, but together.

16 rollercoaster years and still enjoying the ride.

Congratulations, I wish you well!

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: hesperis
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 08:31 PM

Well, we just figured out that it's mostly the situation and the relatives. We are willing to compromise, but they aren't, and it's their house. (Not ours at all.) So instead of rearranging the rooms so that everyone has access to what each person needs, they're insisting that we completely change what we're capable of - instantly.

When we can't live up to their unrealistic expectations they get angry and maryrlike instead of trying to help us figure out how to use our STRENGTHS in the situation. Basically, preventing us from being able to live here peaceably long enough to move out peaceably.

Both I and my husband have a hard time finding employment and an even harder time getting to work every day because of various conditions. (Not an excuse, an explanation.) If we both worked we'd end up with one full-time min wage position, basically, and no health insurance. We might be able to survive on that but what with immigration crap on top of it all I can't work here yet. I can't run a business here yet, which is really the only work I'm capable and qualified to do. It's probably the only work he'd be capable of anywhere close to fulltime as well.

I've been trying to figure out if I could get him to Canada but I'd have to go on welfare to get both rent AND food taken care of while waiting for him to get permission, and then I wouldn't be able to sponsor him in because you can't do that while on welfare. I can't find solid information whether or not I could do that while on a student loan.

So, we're stuck at his parents' place if we want to be together and not seperately homeless, and they know it. Except that they probably figure if they can get rid of me he'd be more controllable. Ha.

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 08:38 PM

Vaseline.

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: Amos
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 09:14 PM

Advice for newlyweds from a veteran Pastor:

1. The rules change here; the game is not the same game you were playing up to this point. The points system is totally different now. The definition of "winning" is new and different now. The goals are different. So is the nature of the plays, the purposes tactics strategies moves and awards for winning. All new.

So forget the efforts you used to make to win as a single person. You won that game. Now learn how this one works, just as a beginner always must.

2. The most important single thing is the communication line. Don't let anyone cut it and don't cut it yourselves. Don't withold from each other, don't start in lying or pretending and if you do, get it sdaid ASAP. The communication line is only there as long as you put it there, and it is sacred.

3. It is a "postulated" relationship. Don't put it on automatic and expect it to continue. it continues because you put it there every day. The connections only works when you put it there.

Love,


A

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 09:19 PM

After the can't-look-at-anything-but-each-other phase comes (sometimes LONG after) the phase where you join hands and agree on what to look at, together. Ideals, plans, vision, specific goals. Values that are better supported by the teamed pair than by two individuals not-paired. A lot of the stress goes away when there is a shared sense of being shoulder to shoulder, headed for the future and knowing what you, as a team, consider the highest order of honor.

It IS the in-laws' house-- not something you can control-- but you CAN control your point of view, your reference point, your context within which this temporary situation is set. Look large and wide, and when you two see the same spot, head for it, and have fun getting there.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: Gypsy
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 10:27 PM

Arrrrghhhhhhhhhh.........the in laws! we took care of himselfs mother for the last 4 1/2 years of her life..........i know EXACTLY what you are going thru!
t'enny rate: You have married your best friend, and is best to treat as such. After 25 years, we still say please and thank you. We are quick to forgive, and slow to anger. Judging is a dead end route, so we avoid that as much as we can. We play together, laugh together, and love together. Marriage is FUN.........always remember that

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: Bert
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 10:37 PM

Remember that he is not you. I know it feels like it, but you need to allow a person their own identity.

And here's a song

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: dianavan
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 11:49 PM

I will pass on the advice from my mother who was happily wed to her husband for 45 years.

She said never go to sleep angry, always give a kiss good night and don't think you can come running home to me everytime you have an argument.

I will add: I know that family can add to the problems but look at what they too, are giving up. They no longer have the personal space they once had. This is a strain on all of you. Find a way to make it work. Family is a wonderful insurance policy.

Make sure nobody feels ripped-off. Talk.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: hesperis
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 12:23 AM

If they'd swap the rooms then we wouldn't be intruding on their space so much. They don't want to do that... all I can think is that they just don't want us here at all and are trying to make it even more difficult to coexist than it is already. Possibly it's some kind of punishing way of trying to force him to get a full-time job to get us out of there.

Except that they don't get it that he literally can't do that. So we'll just end up leaving here and have to leave each other too because of not having a home for the government to let us stay together. Or maybe they want that for us, just so I'm not with him anymore. I don't know.

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: GUEST,Harmoni
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 12:41 AM

COMMUNICATION!!! Listening as well as speaking.

Understanding--try to put yourself in the other person's shoes.

Respect--some people treat their dogs better than they do their spouses.

Laughter--sometimes, that's all you can do.

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 01:30 AM

They may recognise that they've put themselves and the two of you in a co-dependent situation, but don't know how to say "this isn't working out" and maybe help you two figure out a way to leave for your own place. They may not be able to articulate what they're feeling due to fear (of what might happen if they kick you both out), anger (at feeling trapped), guilt(over feeling fear and anger), frustration (that they cannot do anything to remedy the situation), etc. much as you and he may be feeling.

Is there a third party, i.e. minister, counselor, etc. who may be able to sit down with all involved and help one another to articulate and LISTEN well?

Also, I would suggest you both go to a Work Force Center and see what training they may have for suitable jobs. I have a real problem when someone tells me they can only do one particular kind of work and only in this amount of increments. I know about your health challenges, darlin', so please do not feel offended. Just know that there are always at least three choices, not one, not either/or, always a third one out there and, quite possibly, more.

Communication cannot be stressed enough. In writing, in person, on the phone, however, but get folks to talking, honestly, openly, and where they feel safe. In this case that should probably be away from the home.

Good luck!

luvyakat

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: GUEST,Jenny Islander
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 02:18 AM

We lived together for a long time before getting married . . . but still, things changed after the wedding. Just opening your mouth and saying "My husband" or "My wife" changes things. You are both going to change. Expect this, pay attention to your spouse, and you won't wake up with a familiar stranger in a few years.

Re the in-law problem: Can you get out of the house? Together? Without them? To a park, the library, a hymn sing at church, a gathering of others with a cheap common interest? The Society for Creative Anachronism (www.sca.org) has a reputation as hospitable to all; I know that my local chapter has saved my sanity more than once when the house seemed to be getting smaller by the hour. The smaller the chapter and gathering, the more family-friendly and relaxed it tends to be; start with a shire's monthly potluck if possible. And by all means, find a qualified counselor, as was suggested above.

Here's a wedding song about the divine madness of love: Beggars to God.

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: hesperis
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 10:47 AM

kat - yay, good advice! Thanks. Wish we knew a decent minister or counselor here. Steve could use some training resources probably - I know what I'm good at.

Jenny - We tried to go join the ymca because we both need to get in better shape... for one month's membership because that was all we could afford, and they wouldn't accept a payment for just one month. As it is, if we go out we end up spending money on food and can't really afford that.

*hugs to everyone*

Keep those stories comin'!

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 12:15 PM

OK... so you're married.

So... living with his parents, and all the unresolved issues between him and them... is creating a little stress? Either he gets out of it by working hard and moving out with you with their blessings and support... hard work being his statement of love and devotion to you... and his declaration to his parents that he is proud of the choice he has made to marry you and will therefore care for you with every bit of strength he can muster...

...or he can fall back into the enabling pattern established long ago by his parents... and let them push you away, in order to continue holding him back.

The choice is clear.

Bond with his parents by encouraging him to work hard. Your new life will be worth it!
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 12:21 PM

True marriage is a "giving contest". The one who gives the most gets to be one of the two big winners!


Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 12:44 PM

My Beautiful Wife (of 40 years' standing) and I, after about twenty of those years, were looking back, sizing up what made our marriage go so well. We decided, among other things, that we both knew from the start that neither was any kind of remotest threat to the other. Even when the inevitable difference of opinion occasionally came up, if intemperate words ensued (very seldom) the recipient knew that he/she was not really rejected or demeaned, that it was only the situation talking, not the other person. Irritation, maybe, but no hard feelings were involved, and that only very temporary.

And, in line with someone's mother's advice, referred to above, no-one ever went to sleep without lots of cuddling, hugging, kissing (and who knows what else). Not even the remnants of irritation got by that barrier.

You say that sounds like sloppy teenage romanticism? Okay. What's your point?

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: Gypsy
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 10:47 PM

Sounds like a tough one with the parents. Where are you? In my area, we have an awful lot of agencies that might be able to help, not the least of which would be the churches. Or the private industry council, which would help you start up a business. If there is a presbyterian church around, talk to their deacons. we do alot of that kind of intervention/aid.

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 12:36 AM

Like someone said, get out of the house as much as you can. Whatever room you have, use it, and basically not the rest of the house. Use the great outdoors and the library and go shopping or whatever. I doubt they are manipulating you by not rearranging the house. They probably are just set in their ways. The less you interrupt their habits the happier everyone will be. Ask if there are times that would be convenient for you to schedule the laundry, the bathroom, and the kitchen. Don't watch TV with them. Go for long walks in the evening. Don't move their stuff. Don't use it if you can help it. Women are very very territorial in their houses. This is your mother in law's house. It's like an alpha dog; respect her terrority or don't at your peril....be smarmy if you have to....you'll get out soon I think....mg

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 01:28 AM

After 30 plus of marriage there are a couple of things I can add.

1. Don't expect to be happy all the time. Life isn't like that. If the bad times don't go away. Try to find out why not and fix it.

2. Give each other some room. Don't try to spend all your free time together.

3. If your complaint about your spouse is womething you knew about when you were married, live with it. It's your fault, now, and it's not going to change. Probably.

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: hesperis
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 04:30 PM

"Whatever room you have" - that's the problem. We don't have a private room large enough for sleeping AND computing for both of us. We can't get a two-person-sized bed in his room AND have two desks and a dresser and a shelf and get to the closet. If we had all that in the room, we wouldn't even be able to sit at the desks or open the drawers!

So we sleep in the room that everyone else needs to use for computer time. I need more sleep than anyone I know who doesn't have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and I'm also sick a lot on top of that - even more sleep needed.

They won't switch the rooms, which just forces a clash of needs that would be *completely unnecessary* if the rooms were switched. And then they just tell me that my need for sleep doesn't matter because it's excessive, and that I'm sick too often so I can't really be that sick, and that they're already making sacrifices by having us here so that I just have to sacrifice sleep for it.

Unfortunately I'm incapable of keeping them happy by keeping normal sleep hours. So there is no solution to the problem, unless they switch the rooms or we leave or I suddenly get at least 80% better in health.

And if we leave, we'll both be homeless and not be able to be together.

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 06:37 PM

We can't get a two-person-sized bed in his room AND have two desks and a dresser and a shelf and get to the closet.

If that's really the practical difficulty causing in-law frustration and spousal strain, GOOD NEWS!!! You can solve that immediately.

Share a twin bed, you're both small, or roll out a double bag at night on the floor, and take turns computering on ONE desk. Or use the closet as the dresser and move the dresser and probably one desk out. Or raise the single or double bed on cinder blocks and put the puder or puders UNDER it like a loft. Check out HGTV. This is a perfectly normal problem, easily and frequently solved.

I just got done paying $28 a NIGHT for a room like you describe, on a long training retreat (via grant). You got it for free???

Cripes, you have a roof and food, and you can't work out the rest? You would go homeless and split up because you can't arrange the rent-free room that's available??!!?? That sound like computer addiction more than a life-threatening health situation. Water, food, and roof are FIRST priorities. From that you build the rest as is actually and practicably possible.

Scale down the furniture and the expectations of what others will do for you and the problems will be much smaller, too.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: hesperis
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 07:49 PM

We can't sleep together on a twin bed. We did that in Canada for the first three months until we got a double futon. I didn't sleep much at all those first three months except when he got up. Not even a double will fit in that room unless most of the other furniture goes out.

What will fit in that room? One desk, one double bed, no dresser because the drawers wouldn't be able to be opened (and I don't know how they'd manage to get it out of the room anyway), no other desk. Or one desk, one dresser that can't be used as a desk, one twin bed that we can't sleep on... he has a computer and I am using his laptop. So there'd be nowhere to put one of the two computers.

We've been sleeping on the floor when it gets too bad. And our knees bump into the dresser and the desk.

I don't know what gave you the idea that he's small, he's over 6 feet tall!

We can't empty the closet because the basement doesn't have room in it, so my clothes are on the floor anyway. To clear the floor to sleep on it we have to put my clothes elsewhere.

Computer addiction? Sure. I've admitted to that freely. That's also my only way of earning money or of studying. I do almost everything on the computer because it doesn't care whether I'm sick or not like people do, particularly job employers. Contract employers don't care where you do a job, or what you look like, they just want the job done. Job employers need people to actually show up all bright-eyed and bushy-tailed.

The only reason I'm not working right now USING MY COMPUTER is that I'm not legally allowed to work in the US yet. But I'm studying more advanced web development so that when I can work again, I'll be in the position of being able to get contracts more easily.

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 08:13 PM

Your message is full of "can't"s, and believe me, I understand about that.

But GOOD NEWS-- you CAN put the one computer there is room for (the laptop) at the disposal of the person who can earn money with it right away (not learn how to earn, EARN). You CAN get rid of whatever doesn't fit, selling what you can and lending or giving away the rest, if you are unable to find and pay for storage facilities.

From what you have described, this is what is possible, and you CAN do it. From there you CAN make your way into greater self-reliancy. It's been done. You can do it, too.

Sometimes in life you lose your stuff. Sometimes you walk away from stuff to be more mobile, more adaptable, more operationally fluid. (Ask those of us who've left our stuff when going back to get it wasn't safe or possible, or when it was already gone.)

You CAN determine the MINIMUM priorities you can agree on as a couple, and rigorously live them, putting all else under subjection to those priorities. If you do this, you will discover that you have lived your way out of what seems unsolvable now.

This is what any honest life-skills counselor will tell you with the information you have provided. Don't do the impossible, which is to try to control others. Control what YOU can control.   You CAN do that.

Right now you have a STUFF problem. It's your stuff, and it's under your control. Right now your stuff does not meet your needs; it's drowning you and keeping you from meeting your real needs for privacy and sleep. You acquired it with the best possible intentions and surely it's served a good purpose, but right now it's in the way. You are trying to move forward-- you are on the move.

Travel light. You would not load a two-man dinghy the same way you'd load a cruiser, would you? Where you are is temporary. Live like it is, not like it's the destination where you can relax.

You aren't at your destination yet, or at safe harbor. You're still traveling. Assume that you are traveling forward, and jettison the stuff that's dragging you under.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: freda underhill
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 08:33 PM

respect, courtesy. if you both treat each other with courtesy, it will work.

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 09:25 PM

If you can telecommute and work from "home," and your only problem is the legal hangup with immigration or whatever, wouldn't it be possible for the American-citizen spouse to show the portfolio and get the contracts, and then for, er, um, both partners to participate in producing the actual work? Who'd know? If Mr. Contract Boss can't see that you're working in in your jammies and bathrobe, they can't see whether it's you or him, either.

I'm not going on record as encouraging fraud or anything; it just occurs to me that a workaround is possible here. Imagine how cool it would be for the two of you to accomplish this together, outsmarting the system. You'll become closer than ever before!

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 09:40 PM

Wow. I guess I would have thought the two of you could have slept in a twin sized bed as well...having seen your pics, you both really are small enough that that would work. When I was closer to your age, I lived with a young man and we had next to nothing....a card table to eat at, two folding chairs, a $12.00 couch from the Salvation Army and a twin sized bed that we slept in...it took a little getting used to...but hey..snuggling is fun! *G* We eventually were fine with the two of us in that one bed and the cat!

Several years and many pounds later, my husband and I (who isn't a tiny creature) share a full size bed....plenty of room...it's cozy and that's the way we like it. It's all in what you make yourself used to. Make accomodations, change what YOU can change for yourself and work towards finding a way out. Your stay with the parents is temporary...this too shall pass.

Heck..are you in a southern state? Can you pitch a tent? I think I'd rather do that than live with my inlaws......yikes.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 09:42 PM

Also, what about Susan's idea of putting your bed up on blocks creating a loft where you could put a desk or store other things under the bed? Lots of folks do that in college due to the tiny amount of space in the dorm rooms....always kinda liked that idea myself.......

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: GUEST,Bobert
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 09:45 PM

Sniff...

Yeah, I'd like folks to think that the P-Vine always gets the upperhand but she doesn't...

We madea deal early on that we each had the comfort inknowing that if there wwas a difference of opionion then if one or the other felt that "very" strongly (as opposed to just "strongly") that the other would capitulate. As long as this isn't overused it does lead to more compromises on both sides just in knowing that it is always an option...

That is my advice an' I reserve the right to deny I offered it if in one of my soon-to-be-patended "what-I-want-to-know-about-women" threads....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: hesperis
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 10:13 PM

Ok, even if we solved the physical room problem temporarily (which would be good for maybe a max of 2 months, but not for 6-12 months which is more what would be needed in this situation), there's still the problem of emotional support.

They pressure him to get a full-time job. He's incapable of that because of the way his brain functions. He gets fired from full-time jobs. He has absolutely no clue what his strengths are, although we are beginning to get a glimmer that he does have some.

They completely ignore my strengths even when we tell them about it and ask for their support. They ignore my need for a quiet working/study environment and concentrate all efforts on persuading him to get a full-time job.

Then they say that we just need to let them know what we need. We have done so already. They merely reiterate that he needs to get a full-time job as soon as possible, and then ask us to let them know what we need to get through this situation.

TRANSLATION: We'll be happy to support you in following your strategies as long as those strategies are what normal people do, and as long as they are what WE think is best for you. We're not going to consult with you about your needs, your actual inabilities as evidenced by previous job behaviour, or listen to what you say about the situation. Because we already know what's best for you, so just settle down and be nice normal working people with no problems. You can't do that? We can't hear you dear, when did you say you were going to get a job?

Steve does NOT do well under that kind of pressure. It only gives his brain more things to be distracted about, and he feels like a failure before even starting to do anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: Gypsy
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 10:34 PM

That is truly difficult. Unfortunately, the deal with parents, is when you accept help,it WILL be with strings. If you are in the US, there should be a PIC of some sort around that you can check out. Price is right: Free. For housing, have you checked out for any caretaking gigs? My neck of the woods, an awful lot of people are heading to mexico for the winter. Might be the case where you are, too. Or, caretaker at a campground? Can be pretty attractive, like a work trade situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: GUEST,Bobert
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 10:34 PM

Hey, hesp, you are both right.... Yer husband needs a full time job an' maybe you do as well but...

... at doing what you are both able.

If that means selling books at a store front church, that's what it means. You each can only do what you can do but, hey, if it is what you can do, you do it...

Lets not make the parents the bad guys here unless they are the badguys, who are expecting you to get jobs as brain surgeons at the local hosptal...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: hesperis
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 11:52 PM

Gypsy - What is PIC?

Bobert. Yup. What we're able. I'm trying to find out if I can get him into Canada if I'm on a student loan. So far no answers. Otherwise I can try to get some contracts and hope for ones large enough to bring him in that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: dianavan
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 12:01 AM

Hesperis - How old are you and how old is your husband? I think his parents probably know the way his brain works. They've been living with him longer than you have. You don't seem to understand something. ITS THEIR HOUSE! The fact that they have allowed you both to stay there is due to their generosity. They don't have to put up with you but they are doing just that. Why should they be inconvenienced by more demands from you. WAKE UP! They owe you nothing.

I know that I am being blunt but is it their fault that you and your hubby are unemployed and dependent? I think you should be grateful that they have accomodated you for this long. Do you think that his parents ever thought they would be stuck with not one but two dependents? Do you have any friends? Maybe you can move in there and they will offer their bedroom so that you can get enough sleep but somehow I doubt it.

Whoever said that anybody owed you anything? Quit whining, get dressed and start standing on your own two feet. Its the only way you will have any control over your own life.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 02:29 AM

hesperis, being something of a newlywed myself, I guess I don't have any advice for the being newlywed part, but I think the loft-bed idea might be worth checking out. I can't imagine using cinderblocks for that (doesn't sound stable to me at the hight that would be needed to accomodate steve's height (even when sitting), but you can make a loft-bed pretty cheaply with two by four lumber and piece or two of plywood. And if you only need one and a half pieces of plywood, a lot of home improvement centers will cut it in half for you.

Here's some sites with imformation about how to build one. You probably would need to make some modifications, but I bet you could put your dresser and at least one desk under it, and maybe a movable shelf on top for another computer if needed.

http://interiordec.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stubborn-norwegian.com%2Flofts.html

http://interiordec.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.timbernest.com%2F

http://familyfun.go.com/decorating-ideas/building/feature/famf0502_proj_loftbed/

http://www.oploftbed.com/plans/freebies.php

http://www.oploftbed.com/

http://www.furnitureplans.com/pi_products/5530

It would be very cool if Steve could help you with your business so you wouldn't have to wait for your work papers before you can start making any money with it. It's great that you are getting more training though.

By the way, my sister and her husband lived with my parents for seven years while my brother-in-law was going to school. I don't think I could have survived there for that long as an adult living with my parents, but some marriages to do appear to survive the experience.

Good luck with everything.

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: hesperis
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 11:37 AM

dianavan - they are not aware of how his brain works except in the slightest superficial sense. They took him to doctors and the medication didn't work, and they gave up trying to understand.

We are very grateful for what we have been given, we just don't understand why they insist on not rearranging things so that we WON'T be imposing so damn much. They seem to prefer to remain martyred and angry at me for my body needing more sleep than normal.

Actually, they ignore everything about both me and their son that is either beyond or not contained in "normal" capabilities and behaviour. That's causing more of a problem than is necessary here, but that is their perogative because it's their house. *shrug*

CarolC - thanks, that may help a lot. If I'm the one with the desk under the bed it could work. He'd just have to duck to get past the bed to his desk. I've been trying to find a futon mattress through freecycle but so far we don't actually have a bed for us except for the guestroom bed.

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: SINSULL
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 02:05 PM

For $100, you can get a full size or queensize self inflating mattress which is as comfortable as any I have slept on. Deflate it in the morning and your space is free.


Hesperis,
Do you mean that you expect your in-laws to give you their bedroom in their house? That's a bit much by any standards. I am with dianavan on this one. You need to be grateful for what they have done for you and SHOW IT. You have a roof over your head and some space of your own. Make the most of it and put a plan into action to get your own home ASAP. People with health problems, mental illness, physical disabilities and no jobs do it every day.
I am sorry if this sounds harsh. It is reality.

Another thought - maybe their reluctance to accept anything out of the "norm" from their son and you is actually an effort not to enable it. You can choose to live your lives as you see fit. That is what adults do. But they are under no obligation to accomodate their life style to yours anymore than you are to theirs.

Consider this: What you are suggesting may be being heard as "We are going to both work part time and earn minimum wage and because this is what we do, we need to live in your home. And to make everything cozy for us and for you, we will decide what rooms and space we want/need...and though it is inconvenient for you, we feel it's best. And if you don't agree it means you don't care."

Sorry girl. Where did you get the idea that anyone has to live their life around you? It just doesn't work that way.

Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Newlywed Advice?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 03:02 PM

Which time?

In my first marriage, which turned out to be an ugly, self-destructive nightmare from the honeymoon on, it seemed like the reality of being married wildly exagerated the points of friction that we brought in to the marriage. We'd been going together for three years, so there shouldn't have been any surprises.

My second (and final) marriage to my wife Ruth was the opposite end of the stick. We'd both lived alone for more than ten years after bad first marriages, so when we married, it took a little adjusting to different schedules and life styles. One of the wisest things we did, I think, was to ignore the standard advice to newlyweds... do everything together. That wasn't natural for us, although we probably spend more time enjoying each other in an average day than most married couples do in a week. But, besides all of our common interests, we have individual interests that don't overlap. We never tried to get the other person to share things that they didn't enjoy, and more importantly, never made the other person feel guilty that they weren't doing what we wanted.

The best advice I can give to newlyweds (or oldlyweds) is to engage in a life-long loving war. This is the only war I embrace, because there is no loser. I'm not talking about a suffocating war, or a sentimental, artificial lovey-dovey war. Just try to make each day the best you can for the one you love. (This only works if you both do it, by the way.) Find joy in your love's joy even if it's something you would never want to do yourself. If you really love someone, making them happy should be a joyful experience.

I knew that I wanted to marry Ruth after the first week. I prayed about it, and was told that I was not to ask her to marry me until exactly three months after the first time we went out together. It seemed like a million years, but I was obedient, and we've both been blessed beyond all measure. Our next Anniversary will be our 7th. We've had several lifetimes worth of beautiful, loving times together in these 6 and a half years.

Our Best Man at our wedding was Joe Evans, the Bass singer in the Gospel Messengers. The Messengers sang "All Things Are Possible, If You Only Believe" at our wedding, with Joe singing the lead.

That's true, you know...

Enjoy each other, hesperis.

Jerry and Ruth