BS: Hesperis getting divorced

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 11:58 AM

Oh, I know, Martin, I know. But it took a long time for me to realize that. I was at daggers drawn with my dad from about age 14 until just a couple of years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 11:04 AM

Your parents are a blessing, LH.

Mine were married 59 years ago until I lost my dad 2 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 09:11 AM

If Martin got a chance to actually meet Carol, he might well experience at least a moment or two of sexual tension... :-)

Martin, ANY place I can think of fits what you said: "A good shrink could sure get a lot of clients here." Any place. Believe me.

In my case, I figured I wasn't actually mature enough to marry...and so I didn't. (I did try living with a few people along the way, though.) My parents certainly weren't mature enough to marry when they did, let me tell you! But they did anyway, and they are still together. He's 82 and she's 76 now. They have driven each other up the wall for 57 years! And yet, they are strangely codependent and will undoubtedly continue together till death does them part.

I decided I was not going to follow in their footsteps, and I do not regret that decision in the least. :-) I'll say this though, with all sincerity: I tremendously admire people who have achieved strong, lasting, stable, and loving marriages together...and I have seen a few such couples here and there. It takes a lot of maturity and a great capacity to give. Bravo for them!

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 08:53 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 11:52 PM

That's a strange obsession you have there, GUEST,10 Dec 04 - 08:05 PM.

And no, no sexual tension between us from my perspective. But I do sometimes get a good laugh out of some of the things I say to MG.

However, JtS is all the man I need.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST,Ha!
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 08:05 PM

See, I knew there was sexual tension between MG and CC.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Once Famous
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 02:56 PM

If you want to CarolC. business might be good!

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 01:24 PM

Thanks SueB. I'll check into it.

Martin, coming from you, I take that as a compliment.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Once Famous
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 11:50 AM

Or you could hang a red light on your trailer.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST,SueB
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 03:02 AM

Carol, you should look into spot foreign currency trading. You can go to www.fxcm.com, or google it - a lot of places now with free charts and data, and demo trading accounts. Try a demo - it's addictive.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 06:50 PM

No Martin. I'm not on welfare. If I weren't married to JtS I would probably still be living on an SSI disability. JtS is a brave man, and a better man than many. We both did our best to make sure he knew what he was getting into before we got married. And he has done a very good job of being a good partner. We both carry our weight in the marriage, but we know that we are each capable of and good at different things. He does what he's good at, and I do what I'm good at. Together, we make a very good team. I'm very fortunate to be married to him.

One of the good things that has happened for me as a result of being married to JtS is that he has helped me to work toward being able to earn money from home. That is something I am very eager to do. I have been working hard (within the context of my limitations) toward that goal. I hope to reach it in the not too distant future.

Raggytash, I'm a person with an opinion. Just like you.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 05:28 PM

georgiansilver, yeah just think if a guy had an allergy to the smell of tuna how rough that would be.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 05:17 PM

Just glad I don't have an allergy to the female of the species!!
And don't ask what species Martin...ROFLOL.
Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 05:14 PM

Let's face it. the marriage ended because the sex was bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 04:57 PM

My meaning was perfectly clear if you don't read in a lot that is not there. I said SERIOUS, and I implied that if you go into a marriage looking for a cure for your disorder, you are bound to be disappointed. Is that better?

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 04:10 PM

Those with serious mental health problems should get help.

A severe season affective disorder? what season? Move to a different climate or something.

A good shrink could sure get a lot of clients here.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST,not that guest
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 04:03 PM

"Marriage is no place for anyone with serious emotional problems"???

So those with serious mental health problems should be doomed to a life without marriage??? Tell that to my grandparents - one of whom had bipolar disorder (manic depression), but had a wonderfully strong marriage. Or myself - having severe seasonal affective disorder, but a marriage going on for 10 years and looking like going a lot longer.

Of couse one shouldn't marry in an attempt to cure ones emotional problems, but that wasn't what you said...

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 03:56 PM

If you are looking for someone to carry your load, be prepared for disappointment

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 03:55 PM

Marriage is no place for anyone with serious emotional problems. Just as having a baby will not save a sick marriage, they are both very wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 03:09 PM

CarolC ......... and you think you are?

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 02:21 PM

CarolC are you on welfare?

Haven't seen Jack here lately, not that I miss him at all. Just wonder why?

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Auggie
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 01:46 PM

Carol C

When I first glanced at this thread I thought it extremely inappropriate for a public forum, and swore to myself I wouldn't even finish reading it let alone post to it, but..

It's seldom that I find myself agreeing with your posts when they are political in nature, that said, the fact that you have to defend yourself,even here in cyberspace, for just being ill is total bullshit. You can rage on against the ignorance if you like, of course, and you should be commended for that, but I think if it were me, I would marshal my energies towards maintaining/improving my own health, and just ignore the imbeciles.

It's just impossible to convince some people that the rest of us are not just like they are. Many here, especially the Bold But Anonymous, seem all too ready to judge you for that which they obviously know little about.

Be Well

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: hesperis
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 01:31 PM

To continue the discussion on health issues, try this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Peace
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 12:52 PM

Some folks love to kick others when they're down. Commn enough here. If there is any truth to karma, they in turn will be on the receiving end at some time. Just the way life works, IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 12:30 PM

Thanks, Freda.

So, GUEST,A man's view, one hopes you never find yourself helpless and dependent upon someone who must care for you. You might just find out what it means to be human.

One thing you and some of the other judgemental ones on this thread don't seem to be taking into consideration is the possibility that Steve thought he could handle the role of loved one to a very sick person, and after making the committment, he found out that he just wasn't up to the job. I've been in relationships with men who thought they were up to the job and found out that they weren't. The bitternenss you see in hesperis' first post is certainly something I have felt myself. What you feel at a time like that is this "why on earth didn't you tell me you couldn't do it before I burned all of my safety bridges and let go of my support system in order to be with you?"

Of course, the answer is that it really isn't possible for anyone to know until they've tried. And because hesperis is as young as she is, she can be forgiven for not having enough experience with relationships to be able to spot the ones who are taking on more than they can handle. Goodness knows it took me long enough to get it figured out.

In my opinion, hesperis is showing an amazing amount of maturity in allowing Steve to readjust his relationship with her to something he is able to handle. And she is doing it lovingly and without judgement or recriminations (first post to this thread notwithstanding... that post was made in a moment of dispair). She's doing a much better job of it than I have done in similar circumstances. Read hesperis' posts to her birthday thread. I think if you could ask Steve, he would tell you that he is very relieved to be able to still be close to hesperis without having to fill a role that he is not ready or able to fill.

Raggytash, you are not helping.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 11:27 AM

Freda ......... your comments, and those of others, about various allergies are, as you say, constructive. Perhaps you should start a new thread in order to expand the knowledge of others to what are obviously debilitating symptoms. Sadly adding them to this thread which is full of vitriol and back biting detracts from the valuable message you are trying to pass on to others

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 11:03 AM

I got married, then I grew up. Wrong way.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 10:52 AM

I vow to love you, to be intelligently loyal to you,
and to treasure your presence in my life
for the rest of my life.

Let us both promise to help each other
become ever more true to our truer, deeper Selves,
and to the Higher Power that guides us.
So be it.

might help you both if you read over these vows you cared enough to make...........just a thought

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST,Cretinous Yahoo
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 08:50 AM

Many years ago, I got married, then as time passed, I grew up. Wrong way to do it. Grow up, then get married.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST,A man's view
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 08:40 AM

answering the original post.
Love is not enough, in my experience. Once the person closest is the object of animosity and the opporunity to practice misanthropy then the provocator will find the helper is "running on empty" all the time. There comes a time when sensible helpers pull back and say "how long can this go on before I need help?" Some of those people have little staying power and a few have more in the staying power tank than in the ability tank. But most go to the brink before they count the cost to themselves.

Been there twice and you would think I would be cynical the second time.

the wisdom seems to be:-
Unless the provocator accepts their path to inner comfort there ain't nothing that can prevent a messy outcome. That path means a different path than the one being trod and is always unfamiliar and suspected, and too often rejected.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: freda underhill
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 08:17 AM

GUEST Date: 09 Dec 04 - 08:11 AM

here here.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: freda underhill
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 08:14 AM

and while i'm at it...

it's a tough world. a lot of us are under a lot of pressure. Some things are happening in the world which are depressing, shocking, scary, etc.

dumping rage can be therapeutic. it transfers all the bad feeling onto someone else. but its too easy to pick a SOFT TARGET. intolerance does not mean striking out at someone nearby, it should be saved for big things like corrupt politicians, illegal invasions, poverty etc.

not picking on someone who may have got up your nose somehow.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 08:11 AM

...time was, not too long ago on the Mudcat, that when someone was going through a difficult time, compassion and sympathy ruled the day, with only a modicum of negative comments. Now, it seems, the opposite is true. Negative comments are the norm, and compassion and sympathy are in short supply.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: freda underhill
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 08:01 AM

this is the BS section and people can talk about whatever they want here. Re allergies, I watched my mother in law deteriorate with chronic fatigue syndrome. She was a woman who once did a lot of hiking (bushwalking we call it here in oz) ran her own art and pottery studio, and led a vigorous and dynamic life through several decades. In her last decade she caught Ross River fever, developed chronic fatigue syndrome
and became a different person. I watched her deep frustration in dealing with it, it was not something she imagined.

I always thought she may have ingested too many toxic chemicals from all the pottery glazes and oil paints she worked with. Until symptoms become diagnosed and given a name by the medical profession, sufferers are fair game for the ignorant. we live in a world where the air is now mixed with:
1 lead (Pb)- a heavy metal that is soluble in water and can be easily absorbed in the body, where it accumulates. One of the six criteria pollutants, it was commonly used in gasoline until it was banned in the 1980s.

2 Nitrogen oxides- gases that form when nitrogen and oxygen combine, such when fossil fuels are burned at high temperatures or when lightning strikes.

3 Ground-level ozone is a pollutant, a major component of smog. It is formed when nitrogen oxides react with sunlight and volatile organic compounds.

4 Particulate matter- 1. Fine liquid or solid particles such as dust, smoke, mist, fumes, or smog, found in air or emissions. 2. Very small solids suspended in water; they can vary in size, shape, density and electrical charge and can be gathered together by coagulation and flocculation.

5 Peat - Peat is a renewable, natural, organic material of botanical origin and commercial significance. In industry, peat is used primarily as a filtration medium to remove toxic materials from process waste streams, pathogens from sewage effluents, and deleterious materials suspended in municipal storm-drain water. In its dehydrated form, peat is a highly effective absorbent for fuel and oil spills on land and water.

6 petrol fumes

7Secondary pollutants- air pollutants that are formed in the atmosphere from the chemical reactions of primary pollutants or other pollutants.

8 smog-forming chemicals, since the chemical reactions that result in smog occur in the sky while the reacting chemicals are being blown away from their sources by winds.

its surprising more of us arent sick.

and i agree with GUEST,08 Dec 04 - 05:29 PM, and Van Lingle's comments about CarolC. she is one admirable catter.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 06:08 AM

Would someone please remind me, is this a forum to discuss folk music and related subjects ?


Come on Joe, pull the plug on this PLEASE

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 01:08 AM

Thank you, GUEST,08 Dec 04 - 05:29 PM, and Van Lingle.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Peace
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 08:45 PM

Hey, Hes, how was the birthday? Good I hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: hesperis
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 08:37 PM

Watch a windows media player video about the treatments that enabled me to eat cheesecake and pizza without getting sick! (And that got rid of Little Hawk's coughing every time after eating chicken.)

Cable modem
Dial-up

If you're too skeptical to buy the book outright, get it from the library first... then you might better understand what CarolC and I are up against.

That treatment costs money, and is not covered by health plans. But it works.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: van lingle
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 06:52 PM

Carol and Hesperis,
Someone near and dear to me has suffered from severe food allergies for most of her life so I have some idea of what you all are going through and I would encourage you two to take no heed of these cruel comments being cast about here by a heartless, unknowing few. I've got to say that I'm inspired by your bravery the way I've been inspired by the bravery and perseverance of my own dear sister. vl

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 05:29 PM

Read more about these issues here:fibromyalgia and multiple chemical sensitivities

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 04:43 PM

Thank you for your very kind post, GUEST, 08 Dec 04 - 02:47 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST,Tiny Tim Cratchit
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 03:04 PM

God bless us, every one.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Once Famous
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 02:48 PM

You both sound like a couple of welfare queens.

Get a life and a job whatever it is as long as it's an honest living. There are people a lot worse off who work and don't sponge and complain.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 02:47 PM

CarolC,

Although I've not read every post you've made to the Mudcat since your arrival, the ones I have read have consistently shown you to be a thoughtful, rational, level-headed sort of person. This is no revelation to yourself, obviously - nor should it be to anyone who's taken the time to read you.

Based upon this history, for what it's worth, there's no logical reason - aside from my own illegitimate prejudice or bias, if I have any - to disbelieve you or doubt your sincerity in this matter. I am confident you know what you are talking about. In any event, if I weren't confident, I would have every reason to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Best wishes to anyone who suffers from this elusive and obviously debilitating disease, whatever the name anyone wants to append to it. I hope hesperis finds some way of cohabitating successfully and contentedly with her health issues, as you and Ms. Hillenbrand seem to have done.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Peace
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 02:40 PM

"There are plenty of people in this world who are really suffering and in desperate need of help."

The author of the quotation being one, IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 02:21 PM

And neither of us is doing nothing about our problems either. We're both doing far more than the people in this thread who are too lazy minded to even try to understand what we are saying. But whether or not they ever do understand, we will continue to do the best we can to live the best lives we are capable of living. As we have been doing all along.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 02:19 PM

You're not very observant, are you GUEST. We're not bellyaching. We're responding to other people posts, many of them quite abusive in nature, with some facts to dispell their ignorance of a very real problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 02:13 PM

Please, will both of you babbling hypochondriacs stop bellyaching. There are plenty of people in this world who are really suffering and in desperate need of help. They are not lazy do-nothings who place the blame of all of their shortcomings on other people and on imaginary illnesses that they don't do anything to fight. Stop being life's losers and do something constructive to help yourselves.

And Hesperis, stop bragging about your imaginary company:

I *have* a company. It makes $5 a month, which is more than he's making right now,

You can pick up soda bottles from the side of the road and return them for a deposit and make more than $5 per month. A Donald Trump you are not.

Please, if you both want to cry lock yourselves in a room with some towels and bore yourselves to death.

So, has anyone heard some good music lately?

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: hesperis
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 02:10 PM

I've seen people with severe food allergies forget to check ingredients on something simple and then be sick for days... only checking the ingredients when they were better and finding something that they should have avoided. Also, there's the matter that allergic reactions can apprach addictive-loop reactions... which is why research has found that people who are addicted to alcohol often are allergic to hops (in the case of beer) or b vitamins (which alcohol uses up in the body) or to another compound in the alcohol itself.

I'm sure that some people do use their illnesses to manipulate the people around them. But take a moment to think why someone would do that. They'd have to be pretty hopeless about everything.

People always have reasons for what they do. If you can find those reasons and address them, then you'll see an improvement in their behaviours. In the most severe cases, the reasons are physical, physical-neurological (which is NOT mental although it sometimes looks like it), or emotional/mental. Any reason is valid to the one experiencing it, and often buried under layers of abuse from people who don't bother to understand.

Physical reasons are often dismissed as only mental, and as something that would disappear if the person had more "moral fibre" in them. And when added "moral fibre" doesn't help, then people turn away and compound the physical problem with emotional and sometimes physical abuse.

Then people point to the signs of abuse and say that it really is all in your head, which again only compounds the problem.

I really don't know why a lot of people think that other people don't want to be successful, happy, and healthy. Who wouldn't? Isn't that what everyone wishes for? That's the classic three wishes, right there.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 01:32 PM

It's true, Amergin. I'm in no more of a position to make such a suggestion than MaineDog is.