BS: Hesperis getting divorced

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: freda underhill
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 04:13 PM

hesperis

Once a women in your position would have had a sack put over her head, be run through the village while people yelled abuse or stoned her. Here people do it in the forum.

anyone who "counsels" and then rips the client apart publicly should examine their own attitudes and motives. is this about help or control? have they moved from rescuer to persecutor?

good luck with it all

freda

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 03:35 PM

I'll kick in 10 bucks fer Zaa!

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 03:31 PM

Let's all send out for pizza!!

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 03:08 PM

"for once I agree with Clinton"

Welcome to the Dark Side, my young Padawan....

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 02:58 PM

I agree with CatsPHiddle, and for once I agree with Clinton. This is a stomach turning argument that should have been kept personal.

Personal problems/dirty linen have been aired here before, and become an unholy mess. They should not be aired on a public forum where so much can be read into postings and it becomes unclear what is truth, what is assumption and what hasn't been 'edited' or tampered with by others. It is so easy for something to be taken out of context, or out of post altogether, and to create a bitter and hurtful expose out of something that was a personal and intimate disagreement.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 02:38 PM

Hesperis, Im sorry to hear your news and I hope you keep up the fight to go back to college or find a job and continue with your music etc. I know its hard at the moment but things will get better.

On another note I know many of you are angry for whatever reason but I don't think this is the place to be arguing it out. That goes for Hesperis and WYSIWYG. I don't know the whole story and to be honest with you I don't want to know, same with the arguments. That's what PM's are for. We all get upset and say things we don't really mean that are hurtful and insensitive and I've done it too but there really is a time and a place and this isn't it.

Good Luck Hesperis and best wishes. I hope you find someone who loves you for you. And remember you have many friends here on Mudcat.

Khatt

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: hesperis
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 02:21 PM

Fine. I won't send any more PMs to LilyFestre or to Susan, since they seem determined to completely ignore what is in the messages.

Excerpts from the LAST sent PMs to both LilyFestre and Susan, in which I tried to clear up the misconception that I had given up, which is what Susan ASSUMED when I said I was leaving, without having heard any reasons for that yet because she hadn't read the following even after they were sent, because she was "done with me":

LilyFestre           Re: Re: Re: Would You...         4 Dec 2004 04:04 PM
                        
Message:
"He's given up on me."

"But as of now, he's given up on me because although he believes that I do have some physical things wrong with me, he's drained from trying to take care of me."

And:

WYSIWYG         I'm not bailing on Steve         3 Dec 2004 11:56 AM
                
Message:
No, I'm done. (This was in response to her telling me that she was done with me.) I'm sick of trying to keep going when I drain everyone around me so that they stop caring. I can't take a little rest from the fight without everything falling apart and people blaming me for stopping a superhuman effort because it still hasn't gotten results and I'm drained. Maybe it's going to have to fall apart this time and stay fallen apart. Maybe I should have been a statistic all along. Maybe that was God's plan for me, maybe I'll help people more as a statistic than as a success. All I know is, I can't fight anymore.

Steve will be fine, I've persuaded his parents to treat him like a human being. So I haven't given that part of the fight up, I don't need to. My work is done on that.

It takes so much energy to use a laptop when in bed. (The previous was supposed to be sarcasm, just in case your sarcasm detector isn't working properly.) I can walk today. Yesterday my legs kept giving out.

Thank you both so much for lying about what I have written to you. That's very "helpful" of you.

Please do not give "evidence" from my PM's to you, as that would be a serious breach of confidentiality. I have chosen to post these excerpts and it is my right to do so. Your comments have already been enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 02:10 PM

LilyFestre, CarolC has at least three orifices below her waist that face south.

which one do you think her head is stuck in?

Subject: RE: BS:
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 01:57 PM

Today... on "As The Stomach Turns"...

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 01:36 PM

At least you have the honesty to bail out before bringing another life into the equation.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 01:32 PM

Except that I've seen you do it to other people on other threads, Michelle. So I stand by what I said.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 01:28 PM

*YAWN* You know nothing about me my dear.....why don't you offer some more help..you know..wishing things away for Hesperis..that is SO helpful.

On that note, I have better things to do than argue with someone who has not read the PM's I have received from Hesperis, nor have I said she was not sick...I think she needs mental and medical attention. See? No diagnosis.

Read the threads for what is there, stop jumping on folks who have given their own observations and if you can help Hesperis, great...quit attacking everyone who has tried and DO IT YOUR OWN DAMN SELF!

Toodles!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 01:16 PM

You yourself have been suggesting that hesperis is not really sick and that sickness is not the real reason for her problems.

Believe me when I tell you that I know the difference between chronic illness and making shit up. One of the reasons I have no intentions of giving up on hesperis is because I know that "there but for the grace of God go I". While our specific symptoms and causes are not identical, for all practical purposes, the only difference between hesperis and I is that I got lucky and she did not.

I am not able to hold down a regular job for mostly the same reasons she can't. But Janie saw me twice at the FSGW, having the time of my life. How is this possible? With the kind of chronic illness that hesperis has and that I have, you can put look quite healthy, and you can even do normal things, SOME OF THE TIME.

This does not mean you can hold down a regular job, where the boss expects (and has every right to expect) you to show up regularly, and to function normally. As I have said on the other thread, I lived on an SSI disability for about ten years because of my chronic illness. I was thoroughly evaluated by both a psychiatrist as well as a psychologist as a part of my SSI approval process, and found to be both sane and also NOT MALINGERING. you are in no position to suggest that hesperis does not have a valid chronic illness based on the limited amount of information you have about her.

One of the reasons I know that hesperis is telling the truth about her illness is because in the process of telling me about some of the symptoms she experiences, I was able to better understand and find appropriate treatement for some of my own symptoms. I know she is telling the truth because I experience many of the same exact things she does EVERY SINGLE DAY OF MY LIFE.

You strike me as a very judgemental person, Michelle. Let us hope you never find yourself in the same kind of situation hesperis is in. And don't assume it isn't possible. I know because it happened to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 01:00 PM

Gee Carol, nowhere did I see that anyone with a degree in Social Work gave out any type of medical diagnosis...perhaps you should have your eyes checked....or take your head out of that oriface that faces south....

Moving on.......

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 12:57 PM

I also never knew that people who only have a bachelors degree in social work are licensed or qualified to make mental health assesments.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 12:54 PM

Well, you learn something new every day. I never realized that social workers are licenced to give out medical diagnoses.

I think maybe there are some other people on this thread who need to have their licences pulled.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 12:02 PM

The Lone Ranger

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Peace
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 12:01 PM

Who was that masked person?

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 11:58 AM

As Janie suggests, the correct approach to working with Hesperis is confrontation of her manipulative, false, and contradictory statements and behavior and nurturing in combination.

If her "sickness" is enabled it will never be replaced by healthier more self-sufficent behaviors. As is evident, confrontation on this thread has already enabled her to think through her impulsive behaviors and consider staying where she is with a roof over her head.

Hesperis, you need to stop making excuses regarding your "sicknes" and get a job. Millions of people work with MS, CP, chronic fatigue, migraines, allergies, and a host of other illnesses. But, we love you as you can see from this thread. Susan is doing what seems right to her regarding being manipulated. When you manipulate people dishonestly, they do tend to abandon you. So stop it!

Get a job and go to school and stop giving in to your impulses and emotionality. Whether or not Steve has the intestinal fortitude to be a good husband should not be used as an excuse for you to be a slacker. His parents sound as if they might be willing to keep you under their roof if YOU show you can overcome your neurotic behaviors. Good luck

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 11:50 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 11:40 AM

This part of the Jerry Springer show has been brought to you by:

White Castle Hamburgers


White Castle. Where you can take your mind off of what's going on in your head and worry about how fast you can run to the bathroom.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Peace
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 10:31 AM

Hesperis,

Good news both on the thread and in the message.

Bruce M

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 09:32 AM

LMAO!!!!!!!

Michelle, BSW

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Janie
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 09:24 AM

Sometimes one has to be cruel to be kind. I have no idea whatsoever has been going on in this psychodrama that I just tuned into, but I hear a loud sucking sound and lots of bodies being dragged into a black hole. I just let myself be dragged right up to the rim. Think I'll swim out now.

Janie, LCSW

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 07:30 AM

Hesperis,

   Don't PM me about the way you are manipulating folks here. You have told me repeatedly that YOU were the one that wanted to leave....NOT that Steve wanted you gone. I think the way you have twisted the good that Susan has actually done for you is reprehensible. You moan and groan that no one will take care of you...WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD! You complain about being allergic to everything but yet your wedding photos show you outside, with a dog and then later snuggling in a hammock....gives one pause for thought.
   I'm glad that you have a plan but I am disgusted and disappointed that you have manipulated people here who really do/did care about what happens with you. For all the well wishes that you got (and that is nice of people), how does that HELP you?
    I'm with Susan on this one.
    I hope you get it all figured out Hesperis and I hope that someday you will realize that people aren't going to stick around if you rely on them and blame them for things that you have made no effort to take care of. I also hope that you learn how to get what you want from people in some form of support without lying at every turn along the way.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: hesperis
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 12:45 AM

(LilyFestre - I will respond in PM later.)

Ok. Now that Steve knows what he wants to do, we talked for a bit. Then he talked with his mother for a bit, then he came back and talked with me again. His dad is away tonight, which is probably fortunate, although since his dad used to work at one of the careers Steve is considering, there will be a lot of questions tomorrow.

Steve and I will be separating, as he needs adventure and I need stability. He needs to go out in the wilds and I need an indoor place with good clean air and access to exercise equipment in that clean air. He never should have married anyone because he doesn't want to make that level of commitment to anyone and isn't yet capable of it, and might never be. I never should have married him because right now I need more than any one person could possibly give. However, I *will* be staying here until I can either find a place to stay in Ontario or until I apply to college in Canada and go to student residency.

If I flunk out of college because of my health issues, at least I'll be staying *somewhere* and have proof of my health issues, and it will be easier to get disability because of that proof. If I study business and apply what I learn to my business while in college, I may be able to avoid collapse, even if I have a lot of absences. (I had a hell of a lot of medical absences in high school, and although it is better now, well... it's still not all better.)

I was rather panicked because a lot of people have already given up on me and HAVE literally kicked me out with no place to go. But he's decided to help me the way I helped him - to be able to do what I need to do next with my life.

Now that we are separating, he's finding it a lot easier to advocate for me with his parents. And now, we both have plans, and we're both going to be the best ex-whatevers that we can be for each other, instead of trying to live up to something we can't live up to. I'm really going to miss a lot of things about him though.

Hey, happy endings can actually happen. Wow. Hopefully I can remember that the next time it looks like someone's giving up on me, although that's probably going to need a lot of counseling considering how often it has happened in the past.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 11:50 PM

And in socail work, if the client doesn't follow thru, hey, on to the next case... Sounds cruel but it isn't... Just the nature of the beast...

There is a very big difference between consulting with vendors for the benefit of the client and moving on to the next case if your efforts aren't helping, and what WYSIWYG has done to hesperis in this thread. And I think you know what that difference is. But I respect your desire to bow out of this discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST,SueB
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 11:36 PM

Whatever happens, I hope you're okay, hesperis.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: mg
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 11:17 PM

Is Indiana a community property state? You might be entitled to something. If he has these resources, why isn't he seeing that you get to a doctor? Or getting himself enrolled in a community college? He might be immature, he might be unwilling or unable to cut the apron strings, and/or he might be a true loser. Hard to tell from here. See if you can put him on the Mudcat to tell his side of the story. Or do it PM with someone you trust. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: hesperis
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 11:03 PM

I *have* a company. It makes $5 a month, which is more than he's making right now, although he has inheritances and savings. If I'd had the resources to start it properly, it would be doing a lot better by now, because I built it good and solid, and I built it on what I can actually do.

Anyway, today I found a book among my stuff called "I could do anything, if I only knew what it was" - great book. It's what got me doing web hosting and studying for eventual entry into game design. I brought it with me because I thought he might be interested in reading it. Well, months ago he wasn't interested in it. Now, after suffering through interests inventories that are completely flat and don't suggest anything, he actually read it when I handed it to him. So, now he knows what he wants to do.

But the reason he hasn't gotten a part-time job in the past 3 months is because he wasn't sure if he wanted to be with me. And now he says he loves me but he knows I'm not his mate.

Yes, we're young, and we didn't know exactly what we were getting into. He didn't realize that he didn't actually want to be with me, and I didn't realize that he wasn't willing. But don't accuse me of a lack of commitment, because that's one thing I'm definitely capable of.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: mg
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 10:32 PM

You're absolutely right that he should take whatever kind of temporary part-time job he can get. You might have married someone too immature to cut the mustard, and admittedly, you come with a lot of baggage. The parents will, if they are at all financially capable, at least pay for a doctor's visit so that you can carry a letter with you across the border saying you need immediate medical attention. Let him cross the border with you if that is his and/or your final decision. The worst they can do is say no. If it is not (your fianl decision), try again to work it out. Concentrate on one thing..if the marriage is truly over, and that is your health. If it is not truly over, concentrate on your marriage and your health and then your finances. Don't try to start a company, don't try to make CD's or plunge into artistic endeavors. Just concentrate on earning a little bit of money and eating right and getting fresh air etc. You need professional guidance in a lot of areas. Seek out a social worker and a counselor, and a marriage counselor if you both are willing to try to save the marriage. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 10:14 PM

Pass me a Pepsi, OK?

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 10:11 PM

That should read...not once have you said otherwise to me.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 10:10 PM

Uh Hesperis,

   I hate to point this out, but you have PM'd me quite differently about how YOU want to leave. Not once have you otherwise to me. Pick a story and stick to it sweetie.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: hesperis
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 10:04 PM

Those social work services were not for me alone. They were for my husband, primarily, as he is the one legally allowed to work here and physically capable of it when his ADD is managed. And the resources that were dug up WILL be used - by my husband, the person they were originally for. My willingness to go "through with it" depends on him.

(WYSIWYG - I'm sorry that you have a huge phone bill trying to help me to help him, but those resources will be used. You can send him a bill for it if you want, I'll pm you the address if you request it, and would have requested your email information for him to contact you about this if you hadn't stopped replying to my PMs.)

Leaving is not my choice. And I have told WYSIWYG that, as well. She assumed that it was my choice and stopped replying to my PMs. She obviously stopped reading them as well.

It is his choice. Because he would rather drop me off at the border to go live in a shelter than get a part-time job for 3 months to deal with immigration so that I can get a part-time job here too and we can get an apartment and not live at his parents place. Because I am not worth it to him because I am sick too often and he can't deal with that. Because he treats me like an invalid even when I'm telling him I'm ok and can do things today, and then doesn't bother to check on me when I've been in bed for hours sick and without food.

I've been trying to illegally get contract work while here so that I can earn money to stay with him... and he won't even get a part-time job.

He plays computer games all day while he is *physically* capable of holding down a full-time job, while I am studying more web design techniques to make myself more employable and trying to get contracts.

His ADD prevents him from being able to concentrate enough for a full-time job. So what? So get a part-time job within your limits and do SOMETHING, especially since his parents are willing to support us through the immigration process! I'm trying to do something. (Unfortunately I didn't find any contracts, too many people want full-featured shopping cart software for $25 when it would cost me thousands of hours to make something like that and I'd need more software to do it since I can't hand-code it yet.)

He says that it is too draining to take care of me when I'm sick. But I'm not always the same grade of sick, sometimes I'm quite capable of things. He doesn't have to treat me like an invalid except when my legs don't work right (once a month). Even when I have a headache I can still walk, I can still fix myself a can of soup or something, while shading my eyes against the light.

My legs do not affect my brain. It is not difficult to use a laptop computer in bed. When the light hurts my eyes I turn the brightness down, or I turn it off when it gets too bad. I have always been articulate. Posting on a forum has nothing to do with the health of my legs unless the computer is in another room when I get that sick. (Which, again, is once a month and I don't ever really know when it'll happen because I've never been regular.)

I don't need the ER, as what I have is chronic, not emergency. I need a regular doctor, which I cannot have in this country. I also need someone to drive me to the doctor because when I'm not sick the doctors tend to believe that I'm not sick at all. It's only when they see me sick that they believe me and actually order tests.

I can't afford a cab on welfare, I certainly can't afford an ambulance on welfare, I can't afford non-covered treatments (that work!) on welfare, I can barely afford RENT on welfare. My mother never took me to the doctor for reasons that were valid to her.

I LIKED working as a dishwasher. I liked WORKING. I am allergic to chemicals and smoke (of all kinds, not just cigarette smoke), and was forced to leave the job because it made me sick. Believe what you will. Choose not to believe the doctors who actually ordered tests, and choose to believe the doctors who did not order tests and merely told me (and my mother, who I inherited these conditions from) that it was all in my head and I just needed to get a job. I HAD a job. I liked it, I was good at it, it left me room to think about creative things while working, the boss and coworkers were pleased with my performance... and I had to leave it.

I am not choosing to leave Steve. I have told Susan this and she is ignoring it for whatever reason. I have, over and over, decided to stay. I have, over and over, tried to help him to find what he's capable of doing in order that we can be together and that he will have a good life even if we can't be together. It is his choice that I leave.

It is not his choice to leave me at the border but considering past attitudes from border guards I doubt they would let him through even to drop me off at a shelter, for fear that he'd be trying to illegaly immigrate to Canada. (Especially with all the Bush-dodgers trying to get across.)

The parents have been much more supportive lately, and think that Steve married me and that we should work it out. They also think that he's going to have to do what's best for him. He's decided that what's best for him is for me to not be in his life.

I did not give up. My instinct is to stay... but what can I do when he wants me to leave?

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 09:42 PM

What a joke. And you wonder why I come here for entertainment? On this one I don't even have to rile anyone up.

Any one got some popcorn?

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 09:00 PM

No, CarolC, I haven't... But that's the difference betweena socail worker and a couselor... The social worker deals with issues that involve the vendors "right to know" as opposed to the counselor who maintains strick confidentiality.

Let me give you an example. Woman come in and has been evicted from her home and needs shelter, food, etc. The social worker goes to work. "Mr. Taybor, I've gotta lady with 3 kids who has been evicted and needs a place for a week or so while we........" This goes on every day on social work... Certain amounts of information need to be shared inorder to help folks... That, in a nut shell, is social work...

Now, a counselor, is a different story. Same lady. Same scenerio except now you know that this woman is suffering from depression and that her husband has been abusing her and the kids and having an affair with the lady down the street. This is confidential.

I think, perhaps, is that WYSusan was trying to act as a social worker and some folks got caught up in thinking she was acting as a counselor. I don't know?

And in socail work, if the client doesn't follow thru, hey, on to the next case... Sounds cruel but it isn't... Just the nature of the beast...

There use to be a joke among the folks I worked with that went:

How many social workers does it take to change a light bulb?

Answer: One.... but it has to want to be changed...

With that, I will now bow out of this thread...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 08:38 PM

GUEST,observer, I'll pick my friends, and you can pick yours. I'll take responsibility for my decisions, and you can take responsibility for yours.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST,observer
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 08:36 PM

CarolC: Ifyou are acting as a friend, then remember tha old adage, "With friends like this, who needs enemies?"

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 08:33 PM

Bobert, have you ever violated professional/client privelege and confidentiality in a public forum, and used the priveleged information you had about your client in a personal attack in a public forum? No?

I thought not.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 08:17 PM

Well, in WYS's defense (while not taking sides as I don't have the full background on their relationship) there is a majoe difference between social work and counseling. I have done both in my day and much prefer social work becuase counseling is so, so personal. Social work isn't as personal. Social workers sort thru very basic scenerios and make referrals to the folks who will get into more details and emotions...

BUT, and this is a very imporatnt BUT. Folks have difference skill, motivational and interest levels. A counselor can get burned out on the details and go on and do very good social work AND be friends with the person with who thay are offering their services. Might of fact, it's a little easier to be friends with a client as a socail worker than a counselor because one doesn't have to get bogged down in the details and emotions...

That is the last I'll say about this...

I probably shouldn't have even said this but it needed to be said...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Peace
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 07:58 PM

GUEST, Took it up the ass is being just a tad rude, IMO. Not in good taste at all, GUEST. But, we FEEL for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 07:56 PM

While I am glad that Susan is finally seeing the light on this situation, anytime one "rescues", that is,gives concrete help where none is actually requested, they willl end up getting angry because they will have given way more than is necessary and nothing that is asked for. And the help will be "spoiled" because it came from a grownup.

Hesperis is choosing to leave Steve as I understand it. Therefore she must deal with the consequences. Her provocative statements about being homeless and "dying" are just that. Histrionic, is the clinical term.

She is not "too sick" to work, she doesn't want to do conventional work like other people. That has been apparent for several years. She may have allergies but so do millions of other people who work.

If her teeth are so rotten that they are making her sick, she should have them pulled and get a false set. Much cheaper than scrounging crowns and fillings one by one.

If Steve is not man enough to step up to the plate and care for his wife and she is willing to throw in the towel after a few months, they are better off separated. Staying together and weathering tough times requires the maturity to make a commitment and to compromise. Neither of these young people appear to be ready to do this. Although this ultimatum may be what Steve needs to behave like a man. Hesperis is still a little girl too, but she needs to become a grownup and fast.

If she continues to insist that she is special and different from others and requires that the world cop to her point of view she will sink like a stone. Hesperis needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Anyone who enables her point of view about her specialness and need for special treatment is part of the problem and not the solution.

These parents probably see this and refuse to play her song. So she takes her marbles and goes back to Canada. Steve lets her. She loses him and he loses her. Very sad story.

Hesperis you would be wiser to stay around and try to grow up and help Steve grow up while you have a roof over your head. But no one can tell you what to do. You know better than the doctors, the government agents, the welfare folks, the parents, and all the other people in the world who have managed to put a roof over their own heads. Girl,when are you going to wise up?

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 07:55 PM

Sorry, hes, my hands are washed too....I've had it.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 07:53 PM

My understanding is that WYSIWYG has been acting in a professional capacity with hesperis, and not as a friend. As such, with the posts she has put in this thread, she has violated every single one of the most basic and fundamental principles of the professional/client relationship. If she had a license, I would be calling someone to request that it be revoked as soon as possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 07:28 PM

Susan,
You're taking this very personally and frankly this isn't about you.
Anyone with experience with confused young people knows that they can be erratic. Confused is the operative word here. You are angry because you feel Hesperis has abused your services. OK. It can't be the first time someone has changed their mind and decided not to pursue the help you offered. And it isn't the first time you have filed this complaint against Hesperis. Let it go.

If some here wish to continue to offer her support, advice, help, etc. they have a right to. Maybe I am not following your logic, but it sounds to me as if you are demanding that everyone else walk away because Hesperis didn't want your help.

CarolC seems to have been able to form a bond. She is not a fool and can decide for herself if she's being taken advantage of. (or is it "of whom she is...whatever)

Rant over.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST,Jimmy The Greek
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 06:52 PM

Gee, what a surprise!

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 06:49 PM

I once heard that "love can be measured by what one is willing to give up fr it"... Not too sure there is/was enough love between Steve and Hesperis to make the changes necessary to keep it afloat...

Sorry for you both, Hes... Really...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 06:30 PM

Feel sorry for you... Love and best wishes. Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 06:28 PM

Conditions like, "do you really want me to find you this help (help described)" before committing research time to finding it?????? Networking with professionals in her area just for fun and because I LIKE big phone bills??????? Get real.

~S~