BS: Hesperis getting divorced

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: mg
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 11:17 PM

Is Indiana a community property state? You might be entitled to something. If he has these resources, why isn't he seeing that you get to a doctor? Or getting himself enrolled in a community college? He might be immature, he might be unwilling or unable to cut the apron strings, and/or he might be a true loser. Hard to tell from here. See if you can put him on the Mudcat to tell his side of the story. Or do it PM with someone you trust. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST,SueB
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 11:36 PM

Whatever happens, I hope you're okay, hesperis.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 11:50 PM

And in socail work, if the client doesn't follow thru, hey, on to the next case... Sounds cruel but it isn't... Just the nature of the beast...

There is a very big difference between consulting with vendors for the benefit of the client and moving on to the next case if your efforts aren't helping, and what WYSIWYG has done to hesperis in this thread. And I think you know what that difference is. But I respect your desire to bow out of this discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: hesperis
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 12:45 AM

(LilyFestre - I will respond in PM later.)

Ok. Now that Steve knows what he wants to do, we talked for a bit. Then he talked with his mother for a bit, then he came back and talked with me again. His dad is away tonight, which is probably fortunate, although since his dad used to work at one of the careers Steve is considering, there will be a lot of questions tomorrow.

Steve and I will be separating, as he needs adventure and I need stability. He needs to go out in the wilds and I need an indoor place with good clean air and access to exercise equipment in that clean air. He never should have married anyone because he doesn't want to make that level of commitment to anyone and isn't yet capable of it, and might never be. I never should have married him because right now I need more than any one person could possibly give. However, I *will* be staying here until I can either find a place to stay in Ontario or until I apply to college in Canada and go to student residency.

If I flunk out of college because of my health issues, at least I'll be staying *somewhere* and have proof of my health issues, and it will be easier to get disability because of that proof. If I study business and apply what I learn to my business while in college, I may be able to avoid collapse, even if I have a lot of absences. (I had a hell of a lot of medical absences in high school, and although it is better now, well... it's still not all better.)

I was rather panicked because a lot of people have already given up on me and HAVE literally kicked me out with no place to go. But he's decided to help me the way I helped him - to be able to do what I need to do next with my life.

Now that we are separating, he's finding it a lot easier to advocate for me with his parents. And now, we both have plans, and we're both going to be the best ex-whatevers that we can be for each other, instead of trying to live up to something we can't live up to. I'm really going to miss a lot of things about him though.

Hey, happy endings can actually happen. Wow. Hopefully I can remember that the next time it looks like someone's giving up on me, although that's probably going to need a lot of counseling considering how often it has happened in the past.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 07:30 AM

Hesperis,

   Don't PM me about the way you are manipulating folks here. You have told me repeatedly that YOU were the one that wanted to leave....NOT that Steve wanted you gone. I think the way you have twisted the good that Susan has actually done for you is reprehensible. You moan and groan that no one will take care of you...WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD! You complain about being allergic to everything but yet your wedding photos show you outside, with a dog and then later snuggling in a hammock....gives one pause for thought.
   I'm glad that you have a plan but I am disgusted and disappointed that you have manipulated people here who really do/did care about what happens with you. For all the well wishes that you got (and that is nice of people), how does that HELP you?
    I'm with Susan on this one.
    I hope you get it all figured out Hesperis and I hope that someday you will realize that people aren't going to stick around if you rely on them and blame them for things that you have made no effort to take care of. I also hope that you learn how to get what you want from people in some form of support without lying at every turn along the way.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Janie
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 09:24 AM

Sometimes one has to be cruel to be kind. I have no idea whatsoever has been going on in this psychodrama that I just tuned into, but I hear a loud sucking sound and lots of bodies being dragged into a black hole. I just let myself be dragged right up to the rim. Think I'll swim out now.

Janie, LCSW

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 09:32 AM

LMAO!!!!!!!

Michelle, BSW

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Peace
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 10:31 AM

Hesperis,

Good news both on the thread and in the message.

Bruce M

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 11:40 AM

This part of the Jerry Springer show has been brought to you by:

White Castle Hamburgers


White Castle. Where you can take your mind off of what's going on in your head and worry about how fast you can run to the bathroom.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 11:50 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 11:58 AM

As Janie suggests, the correct approach to working with Hesperis is confrontation of her manipulative, false, and contradictory statements and behavior and nurturing in combination.

If her "sickness" is enabled it will never be replaced by healthier more self-sufficent behaviors. As is evident, confrontation on this thread has already enabled her to think through her impulsive behaviors and consider staying where she is with a roof over her head.

Hesperis, you need to stop making excuses regarding your "sicknes" and get a job. Millions of people work with MS, CP, chronic fatigue, migraines, allergies, and a host of other illnesses. But, we love you as you can see from this thread. Susan is doing what seems right to her regarding being manipulated. When you manipulate people dishonestly, they do tend to abandon you. So stop it!

Get a job and go to school and stop giving in to your impulses and emotionality. Whether or not Steve has the intestinal fortitude to be a good husband should not be used as an excuse for you to be a slacker. His parents sound as if they might be willing to keep you under their roof if YOU show you can overcome your neurotic behaviors. Good luck

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Peace
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 12:01 PM

Who was that masked person?

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 12:02 PM

The Lone Ranger

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 12:54 PM

Well, you learn something new every day. I never realized that social workers are licenced to give out medical diagnoses.

I think maybe there are some other people on this thread who need to have their licences pulled.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 12:57 PM

I also never knew that people who only have a bachelors degree in social work are licensed or qualified to make mental health assesments.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 01:00 PM

Gee Carol, nowhere did I see that anyone with a degree in Social Work gave out any type of medical diagnosis...perhaps you should have your eyes checked....or take your head out of that oriface that faces south....

Moving on.......

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 01:16 PM

You yourself have been suggesting that hesperis is not really sick and that sickness is not the real reason for her problems.

Believe me when I tell you that I know the difference between chronic illness and making shit up. One of the reasons I have no intentions of giving up on hesperis is because I know that "there but for the grace of God go I". While our specific symptoms and causes are not identical, for all practical purposes, the only difference between hesperis and I is that I got lucky and she did not.

I am not able to hold down a regular job for mostly the same reasons she can't. But Janie saw me twice at the FSGW, having the time of my life. How is this possible? With the kind of chronic illness that hesperis has and that I have, you can put look quite healthy, and you can even do normal things, SOME OF THE TIME.

This does not mean you can hold down a regular job, where the boss expects (and has every right to expect) you to show up regularly, and to function normally. As I have said on the other thread, I lived on an SSI disability for about ten years because of my chronic illness. I was thoroughly evaluated by both a psychiatrist as well as a psychologist as a part of my SSI approval process, and found to be both sane and also NOT MALINGERING. you are in no position to suggest that hesperis does not have a valid chronic illness based on the limited amount of information you have about her.

One of the reasons I know that hesperis is telling the truth about her illness is because in the process of telling me about some of the symptoms she experiences, I was able to better understand and find appropriate treatement for some of my own symptoms. I know she is telling the truth because I experience many of the same exact things she does EVERY SINGLE DAY OF MY LIFE.

You strike me as a very judgemental person, Michelle. Let us hope you never find yourself in the same kind of situation hesperis is in. And don't assume it isn't possible. I know because it happened to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 01:28 PM

*YAWN* You know nothing about me my dear.....why don't you offer some more help..you know..wishing things away for Hesperis..that is SO helpful.

On that note, I have better things to do than argue with someone who has not read the PM's I have received from Hesperis, nor have I said she was not sick...I think she needs mental and medical attention. See? No diagnosis.

Read the threads for what is there, stop jumping on folks who have given their own observations and if you can help Hesperis, great...quit attacking everyone who has tried and DO IT YOUR OWN DAMN SELF!

Toodles!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 01:32 PM

Except that I've seen you do it to other people on other threads, Michelle. So I stand by what I said.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 01:36 PM

At least you have the honesty to bail out before bringing another life into the equation.

Subject: RE: BS:
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 01:57 PM

Today... on "As The Stomach Turns"...

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 02:10 PM

LilyFestre, CarolC has at least three orifices below her waist that face south.

which one do you think her head is stuck in?

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: hesperis
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 02:21 PM

Fine. I won't send any more PMs to LilyFestre or to Susan, since they seem determined to completely ignore what is in the messages.

Excerpts from the LAST sent PMs to both LilyFestre and Susan, in which I tried to clear up the misconception that I had given up, which is what Susan ASSUMED when I said I was leaving, without having heard any reasons for that yet because she hadn't read the following even after they were sent, because she was "done with me":

LilyFestre           Re: Re: Re: Would You...         4 Dec 2004 04:04 PM
                        
Message:
"He's given up on me."

"But as of now, he's given up on me because although he believes that I do have some physical things wrong with me, he's drained from trying to take care of me."

And:

WYSIWYG         I'm not bailing on Steve         3 Dec 2004 11:56 AM
                
Message:
No, I'm done. (This was in response to her telling me that she was done with me.) I'm sick of trying to keep going when I drain everyone around me so that they stop caring. I can't take a little rest from the fight without everything falling apart and people blaming me for stopping a superhuman effort because it still hasn't gotten results and I'm drained. Maybe it's going to have to fall apart this time and stay fallen apart. Maybe I should have been a statistic all along. Maybe that was God's plan for me, maybe I'll help people more as a statistic than as a success. All I know is, I can't fight anymore.

Steve will be fine, I've persuaded his parents to treat him like a human being. So I haven't given that part of the fight up, I don't need to. My work is done on that.

It takes so much energy to use a laptop when in bed. (The previous was supposed to be sarcasm, just in case your sarcasm detector isn't working properly.) I can walk today. Yesterday my legs kept giving out.

Thank you both so much for lying about what I have written to you. That's very "helpful" of you.

Please do not give "evidence" from my PM's to you, as that would be a serious breach of confidentiality. I have chosen to post these excerpts and it is my right to do so. Your comments have already been enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 02:38 PM

Hesperis, Im sorry to hear your news and I hope you keep up the fight to go back to college or find a job and continue with your music etc. I know its hard at the moment but things will get better.

On another note I know many of you are angry for whatever reason but I don't think this is the place to be arguing it out. That goes for Hesperis and WYSIWYG. I don't know the whole story and to be honest with you I don't want to know, same with the arguments. That's what PM's are for. We all get upset and say things we don't really mean that are hurtful and insensitive and I've done it too but there really is a time and a place and this isn't it.

Good Luck Hesperis and best wishes. I hope you find someone who loves you for you. And remember you have many friends here on Mudcat.

Khatt

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 02:58 PM

I agree with CatsPHiddle, and for once I agree with Clinton. This is a stomach turning argument that should have been kept personal.

Personal problems/dirty linen have been aired here before, and become an unholy mess. They should not be aired on a public forum where so much can be read into postings and it becomes unclear what is truth, what is assumption and what hasn't been 'edited' or tampered with by others. It is so easy for something to be taken out of context, or out of post altogether, and to create a bitter and hurtful expose out of something that was a personal and intimate disagreement.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 03:08 PM

"for once I agree with Clinton"

Welcome to the Dark Side, my young Padawan....

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 03:31 PM

Let's all send out for pizza!!

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 03:35 PM

I'll kick in 10 bucks fer Zaa!

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: freda underhill
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 04:13 PM

hesperis

Once a women in your position would have had a sack put over her head, be run through the village while people yelled abuse or stoned her. Here people do it in the forum.

anyone who "counsels" and then rips the client apart publicly should examine their own attitudes and motives. is this about help or control? have they moved from rescuer to persecutor?

good luck with it all

freda

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 04:15 PM

Please pay the library now for the use of their computer.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Peace
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 04:22 PM

Lots of folks here would love some of the accident scenes I attend as a first responder.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 04:28 PM

Hesperis,

Have you lost your everloving freaking mind? Your PM is not a matter of confidentiality...this is NOT a therapy session although you seem hell bent on using it as one. I shall clearly post what you sent me.....since you have decided it is fair to call names and insist that I am lying.....let's see who the REAL liar is, shall we?

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 04:32 PM

Note to self: Never EVER look at this thread again.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 04:34 PM

A direct quote from a PM you sent me saying that Steve didn't want you to go:


Talked to Steve. Although listening is difficult now because I've had too many words and not much actions from a lot of people (not you because you're looking up programs instead of just saying that the government "should" help), he was able to reassure me that he loves me and doesn't want me to leave,


I don't want to fuss about this, I don't want any part of it really...but I'll be damned if you are going to point a finger at me and say I'm lying. Do you want me to post more Hesperis?

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 04:39 PM

Lilyfestre, WYSIWIG and Hesperis, give it a rest this is not the time or the place. If you want to have an argument and throw dirt at each other like children do it in private through PM and email or over the phone.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Peace
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 04:42 PM

. . . to watch the bleeding and the tears; the open wounds and the headless bodies. They stop short of actually doing anything, but they just love to watch. I had a scene in the summer that involved two vehicles just outside the building I was in. It was a head-on crash--combined speed impact about 140 km/hr. Anyway, I didn't hear the crash, but my pager went. As I left to building going to the firehall--well, there was no point going to the hall to suit up, so I stayed and worked at making order out of chaos. There were two teenaged kids, a mom, dad and grandmother. The other vehicle had a single driver, about 20 years old. Air bags had deployed, and everyone except the teens--who were seatbelted and in the rear of the van--was hurt to a greater or lesser degree. Many folks were watching. I grabbed a few (metaphorically speaking) and showed them how to hold C-spine until fire and ambulance arrived. The grandmother had an open fracture of the right tibia. The guy who was holding her C-spine started to get sick because of the blood dripping down her leg. I got another spectator in and him out. I asked him if he was OK after the guys and gals arrived (fire and ambulance) and he said yes. Said that that always happend to him when he saw blood. Interesting. He was fine watching it all, but he wasn't when he had to deal with it. Don't know what that means. Don't know that I'm really curious about what it means. Just thought I'd share.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Peace
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 04:45 PM

Anybody can change words they have saved that were written by someone else. Seems that it's about winning now, not about helping. Too bad. When I did something similar on another thread in response to things a few folks said I was raked over the fire for responding. I hope it was none of you folks who were doing the raking. You seem to have less control over yourselves than I was accused of having.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 04:50 PM

Well Brucie, all I can say is that I made an honest attempt to help and was made out to be a liar and it pisses me off. And for catsPhiddle, if you don't like what I have to say....don't read it. It's really that simple. I don't appreciate being taken advantage of which is exactly what has happened here. As can be seen from Hesperis' own words, I WAS DOING SOMETHING TO HELP HER and have NOT altered any posts...what the hell would be the point in that?

Whatever, I'm done here. Good luck to the rest of you fine folks...hope she doesn't screw you like she has some of the rest of us.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: hesperis
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 04:50 PM

Yes, airing of personal laundry is distasteful to some and can lead to a lot of opinions being aired. Don't read the thread if you don't like that. I have no problem with opinions.

However, claiming that someone has "never said" something that they did in fact say, is not an opinion or even a fact. It is false and misleading.

If they did not choose to read my PMs because they are "done with me", that is fine and it is their choice. However at that point they should stop commenting on the issue altogether rather than repeating false assumptions that they have given me no chance to correct.

Mmmm, pizza. Love the taste of those allergy treatments! :)

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Peace
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 04:58 PM

The post that suggested this be done by PMs was a pretty good one, IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Peace
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 05:02 PM

I have seen enough fights to last me a lifetime. I'm gone. Anyone has something to say to me about this issue, do it by PM, please.

Bruce Murdoch

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 05:16 PM

The posting of the contents of PM that have been sent you by others is considered one of the most agregious offenses in the Mudcat. It is considered not only bad form, but also contemptable behavior, and is not considered acceptible here in the Mudcat.

On the other hand, I could post the contents of a PM LilyFestre sent to me in which she even lied to me about something I was supposed to have done. But I will not because I wouldn't stoop that low.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 05:18 PM

*egregious*

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 05:23 PM

*YAWN*

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 05:26 PM

Further, this one last post, I swear because it is just getting to silly to continue, CarolC, your reputation precedes you...always having to have the last word and not quite getting things right.

Gads...with "friends" like you, Hes needs more help than I thought!

Go ahead and post...get that final word in CarolC, I wouldn't want you to be unable to sleep at night because you didn't get the final word in. Go on...do it...knock yourself out and have some fun while you are doing it.

Cheerio :)

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: harpgirl
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 05:29 PM

Group therapy is over for today. Everyone send me 45 dollars.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 05:33 PM

Cool! A fight I wasn't in!

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 05:40 PM

Wasn't there another shipwreck involving this person.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 05:42 PM

Theirs me thinking its Christmas but it must be April 1st - ah well

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST,ANDY
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 05:43 PM

get over it ,were not botherd