BS: Hesperis getting divorced

Subject: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: hesperis
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 03:57 PM

Apparently I really am too sick to be married to anyone. I just end up draining them because I need more help than any one person can give.

Apparently, he married me out of pity, sexual desire, and affection, and not out of love. Because it's love that gives staying power, not affection and sexual desire and pity. And it's love that enables you to fight for your mate, to make sure that they get what they need and that other people understand that.

I did that for him, as best as I was able, even when I was sick. (His parents now talk with him as if he's a human being and are listening to him more, because I advocated with them for him about his ADD. Oddly, they don't listen to me about me.) And ultimately, he was not willing to do that for me.

So apparently, that is what love is: being willing to see your loved one be homeless and probably die rather than help them the way they helped you. Giving up on them. Making sure that they won't be ok and making sure that have no other options.

I probably won't see any replies to this for a long time. I leave tomorrow for the Canadian border. Because we got married, it's unlikely that they'll even allow him through to drop me off anywhere, and I'm not living HERE while waiting for a divorce to come through. I don't know if I can even get to a shelter. I can't get welfare again for three months, as I stayed in the US too long because of promises that are obviously meaningless now.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:17 PM

Again, I have to say, you NEED A BETTER PLAN.
Just leaving someone at the border who is sick and has no where to go is RIDICULOUS. And you being the one asking for him to just leave you there is even MORE RIDICULOUS. Hesperis....if you are going to leave for your reasons stated, fine...but make a plan to keep you safe...what you have stated isn't going to keep you safe.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:20 PM

Folks,

I'm glad Hesperis has posted about this herself, because for several days now, since I posted some reassuring words to y'all on the LAST "help-help" thread, I've been aware that what I had said was no longer something I could stand by. I was not sure if I should post about it or not. I had put my word on something, and that means something specific to me.

As far as I am concerend, she broke faith and trust with me while I was in the middle of doing some damn fine casework for her and Steve so that they could get on with their lives. At each point in the process, I checked back with her to ask her if she really was in for the long haul and willing to deal with the inconveniences, systemic disrespect, and shoe leather of getting real help-- and was assured at each point that yes, she was up for it. One item of such discussion was to watch out for (and NOT act on) that old urge to bail just when something might actually work.... because I have seen many people flip back into the kind of talk (and action) she's dramatized above, in preference to doing the hard personal work it takes to make life changes towards what is positive.

I think Hes needs more help than Mudcat can offer (unless she's scamming us all), and I think that until she learns to stop running the negativity loop, she will continue to move from crisis to crisis because to her, that's what feels most normal. Maybe someday she WILL learn how to do that.

Hesperis, I wish you the best, I really do. This is without doubt the dumbest move I have seen you even think about making.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:26 PM

This SO has no place on an open forum like this. Grossly inappropriate for both Hesperis and Susan to be going back and forth like this.

No qualified LSW would do to Hesperis what Susan just did to her here. I'm truly appalled.

Why do people here insist upon respond to things like this under the guise of "helping" the original poster?

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:27 PM

People here have been taken advantage of. I simply took my name off it.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:28 PM

Seems to me there are two people involved in this "process". (Actually, four, if you count Steve's parents, and I think they are a big part of the equation). How much of the choice is hesperis' and how much is Steve's and Steve's parents? I tend to doubt hesperis would make this decision if she felt she had any other choice.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS, hesperis))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Wish there was more I could do to help.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:33 PM

Anyway, friendship is more important to me than prestige, so I'll keep my name on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:34 PM

Carol, it was certainly her choice to make the choices I know she made. Ask her the whole story when you get a chance.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:35 PM

I know the story.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:35 PM

Hmmm..I'm under the impression that this actually move was actually decided upon by Hesperis.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:36 PM

Carol,

   If you know the whole story, then you KNOW that Hesperis made this decision on her own.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: PoppaGator
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:40 PM

I am so sorry.

While it's unfortunate when *any* marriage breaks up, especially so quickly, it's probably best that you're out of this sooner than later -- assuming that it was never going to work out anyway.

I've been feeling ambiguous about having participated in the recent discussion originally entitled "Newlywed Advice?", which turned out to be about much more complicated issues than the basic platitudes first elicited by that innocuous title.

It became clear that I knew *nothing* about the problems you've been dealing with, and most of what I said came out my own bad experience with my daughter and her psychologically damaged and unemployable boyfriend, who imposed themselves on our household for much too long over the past year and more. They're not married -- it's more permanent than that, unfortunately: they have a one-year old child they are unable to support. If anything I may have said was out of line, perhaps you can understand now that you know where I'm coming from.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:41 PM

Love and stuff to you Hesperis.......been there, seen it, done it, bought the "T" shirt, made a hole in it, sewed it up again and so on.
Life aint always what you wanted it to be but please accept it for what it is. P/M me if you want to chat.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:49 PM

I know what I know. But there's no way I'm going to stoop so low as to post it here.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:50 PM

The PMs are really the only appropriate place for these types of discussions. I'm appalled that people are discussing these things on an open forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:55 PM

Peronally, I think if Hesperis brought it up here, she obviously is wanting some kind of discussion about it. Further, her post above shows clearly that she is making some inappropriate choices for herself.

She is planning to leave somewhere that she has shelter, warmth and food for being abandoned at the border or waiting some things out so she can get the help she needs.

I don't know about the rest of you, but where I am, it's snowing. Does the thought of someone who is sick, left standing in the snow with no where to go sound like a logical thought? Your well wishes of wishing you could do more are nice, but honestly, she needs a better plan to keep herself safe.

In addition, Hesperis has explained her living situation in other posts, so I'm not sure where any confidentiality is being breeched. She is clearly running away from a situation that is uncomfortable for her instead of securing better options for herself.

Whatever the case may be, I for one, don't want to see her standing alone, in the winter cold, with no where to go...healthy or not.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:59 PM

You all can take responsibility for whatever you decide to post here. My choice is to show my good friend hesperis some compassion during a very difficult time in her life.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 05:06 PM

Being compassionate while being realistic is always helpful.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 05:22 PM

It isn't about whether Hesperis is comfortable with it, because she obviously is.

But what about those of us who aren't? Who find this sort of dirty laundry airing extreme and distasteful at the least, and potentially very damaging at the worst?

Who died and made Mudcat posters licensed social workers and psychologists?

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 05:33 PM

"Who find this sort of dirty laundry airing extreme and distasteful at the least, and potentially very damaging at the worst?"
So stop reading, and POSTING to, the thread...

D'uh...

"Being compassionate while being realistic is always helpful."
I think that should be the other way around... be realsitic when you're being compassionate...

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: RichM
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 05:37 PM

If Hesperis brings up the topic of her personal life, then it's her choice.
If you aren't comfortable with this thread, then stay away from it. That may sound abrupt, but it's meant as a positive suggestion.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 05:44 PM

Hesperis brought her problems here, for whatever reason. So I say she has no legitimate gripe with the matter's being discussed.

As to "Who died and made Mudcat posters licensed social workers and psychologists?", Hesperis in effect cast every casual reader in such a role.

If you find this discussion uncomfortable, you need not read it.

While I've read Hesperis's posts relating to her situation, I do not claim to know the "inwardness" of her experience. Whether her decision(s) is/are good ones is both beyond me and none of my business.    I can only wish for her a good outcome, whatever that may be in her case.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST,observer
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 05:56 PM

From the discussion, three things are apparent:

hesperis is making a decision (probably a threat) that she does not want to make, and is posting here in "open court" to try to be talked out of it.

WYSIWYG is doing the proper thing - calling her bluff. Absolutly a good, solid approach AFTER she has tried to help with other approaches.

CarolC is doing what way too many people do in a situation like this - try to portray herself as concerned and helpful when, in fact, she is causing harm by failing to admit she is in WAAAAY over her head.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 05:59 PM

Hesperis -

Being left out in the cold at the Canadian border is not a good idea.

Find a way to compromise and wait it out until Spring.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 06:02 PM

this is like a soap opera.

It's pathetic that people have to play out their lives on an on-line forum.

There are two sides to every story.   I don't care much about either of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 06:10 PM

Hesperis,
I am sorry about this latest development. But Martin has a point. Take yourself to the PMs and work with people who want to help you. No point in setting yourself up for abuse in the open Forum.
M.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 06:15 PM

The thing is, Hesperis made sure NOT to see an LSW. By posting here, she availed herself of what is more closely approximated by the term "pastoral care." It isn't religious care, it isn't proselytizing, it's compassionate care of the person. She cast us all in that role. Some of us have experience with it.

In pastoral care casework, it's considered a courtesy to others who do that work, to let it be known when it seems an individual may be abusing the system. At this time of year, for instance, xeroxed "personal" letters go around to all the churches with a hard luck story and a request for some specified form of assistance. Then it turns out, when one tries to visit the home where "the heat has been disconnected," for instance, to bring blankets and a check for the heat, lo and behold! The whole place is ablaze with bright lights and the smoke of a toasty fire is pouring out the chimney.

People in the helping professions will tell you, when REAL help is needed, the people who really need usually ask in person, and within a relationship of trust. And with a little looking into it-- to see what other help might be possible for instance, not to bust them-- you find that the reality is consistent with the stories.

Now I don't know about you, but I find it hard to label it "consistent" when one says she is too sick to function-- and yet no one is taking that person to the ER for life support-- and meanwhile the person is writing pages and pages of energetic prose all about how they are being ignored.

I don't doubt Heperis has health challenges, but I have seen her scarf down a hotdog in the noonday sun while complaining that she can ONLY eat such and such, and that the sun is poison to her. OK, that isn't from a PM or from the casework, it's an example of someone who is bullshitting either herself or the crowd of sympathetic people scrambling to give her the narrow band of shade and to proffer the required food-- and somewhere in the mix you see real clearly that this is someone who craves attention more than vegetarian food in the shade. And someone who thrives on a hotdog in the sun, as in fact it turned out.

So no, I will not quote PMs, but I am not going to tell my guts to shut up and be quiet when I see someone take a whole bunch of nice people down a garden path, without at least suggesting they take a closer look for themselves, before committing resources.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 06:21 PM

Whoever is in a position that is not likable...or desirable is worthy of our sympathy and love...Let's just give it eh???
Sorry that you are in the position you are in. Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 06:22 PM

It's easy to judge. If anyone has done anything at all for hesperis with conditions attached, maybe they were doing whatever they did for the wrong reasons.

Nothing hesperis has said in this thread or anywhere else in the forum is in any way inconsistant with anything she has told me privately.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 06:28 PM

Conditions like, "do you really want me to find you this help (help described)" before committing research time to finding it?????? Networking with professionals in her area just for fun and because I LIKE big phone bills??????? Get real.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 06:30 PM

Feel sorry for you... Love and best wishes. Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 06:49 PM

I once heard that "love can be measured by what one is willing to give up fr it"... Not too sure there is/was enough love between Steve and Hesperis to make the changes necessary to keep it afloat...

Sorry for you both, Hes... Really...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST,Jimmy The Greek
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 06:52 PM

Gee, what a surprise!

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 07:28 PM

Susan,
You're taking this very personally and frankly this isn't about you.
Anyone with experience with confused young people knows that they can be erratic. Confused is the operative word here. You are angry because you feel Hesperis has abused your services. OK. It can't be the first time someone has changed their mind and decided not to pursue the help you offered. And it isn't the first time you have filed this complaint against Hesperis. Let it go.

If some here wish to continue to offer her support, advice, help, etc. they have a right to. Maybe I am not following your logic, but it sounds to me as if you are demanding that everyone else walk away because Hesperis didn't want your help.

CarolC seems to have been able to form a bond. She is not a fool and can decide for herself if she's being taken advantage of. (or is it "of whom she is...whatever)

Rant over.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 07:53 PM

My understanding is that WYSIWYG has been acting in a professional capacity with hesperis, and not as a friend. As such, with the posts she has put in this thread, she has violated every single one of the most basic and fundamental principles of the professional/client relationship. If she had a license, I would be calling someone to request that it be revoked as soon as possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 07:55 PM

Sorry, hes, my hands are washed too....I've had it.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 07:56 PM

While I am glad that Susan is finally seeing the light on this situation, anytime one "rescues", that is,gives concrete help where none is actually requested, they willl end up getting angry because they will have given way more than is necessary and nothing that is asked for. And the help will be "spoiled" because it came from a grownup.

Hesperis is choosing to leave Steve as I understand it. Therefore she must deal with the consequences. Her provocative statements about being homeless and "dying" are just that. Histrionic, is the clinical term.

She is not "too sick" to work, she doesn't want to do conventional work like other people. That has been apparent for several years. She may have allergies but so do millions of other people who work.

If her teeth are so rotten that they are making her sick, she should have them pulled and get a false set. Much cheaper than scrounging crowns and fillings one by one.

If Steve is not man enough to step up to the plate and care for his wife and she is willing to throw in the towel after a few months, they are better off separated. Staying together and weathering tough times requires the maturity to make a commitment and to compromise. Neither of these young people appear to be ready to do this. Although this ultimatum may be what Steve needs to behave like a man. Hesperis is still a little girl too, but she needs to become a grownup and fast.

If she continues to insist that she is special and different from others and requires that the world cop to her point of view she will sink like a stone. Hesperis needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Anyone who enables her point of view about her specialness and need for special treatment is part of the problem and not the solution.

These parents probably see this and refuse to play her song. So she takes her marbles and goes back to Canada. Steve lets her. She loses him and he loses her. Very sad story.

Hesperis you would be wiser to stay around and try to grow up and help Steve grow up while you have a roof over your head. But no one can tell you what to do. You know better than the doctors, the government agents, the welfare folks, the parents, and all the other people in the world who have managed to put a roof over their own heads. Girl,when are you going to wise up?

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Peace
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 07:58 PM

GUEST, Took it up the ass is being just a tad rude, IMO. Not in good taste at all, GUEST. But, we FEEL for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 08:17 PM

Well, in WYS's defense (while not taking sides as I don't have the full background on their relationship) there is a majoe difference between social work and counseling. I have done both in my day and much prefer social work becuase counseling is so, so personal. Social work isn't as personal. Social workers sort thru very basic scenerios and make referrals to the folks who will get into more details and emotions...

BUT, and this is a very imporatnt BUT. Folks have difference skill, motivational and interest levels. A counselor can get burned out on the details and go on and do very good social work AND be friends with the person with who thay are offering their services. Might of fact, it's a little easier to be friends with a client as a socail worker than a counselor because one doesn't have to get bogged down in the details and emotions...

That is the last I'll say about this...

I probably shouldn't have even said this but it needed to be said...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 08:33 PM

Bobert, have you ever violated professional/client privelege and confidentiality in a public forum, and used the priveleged information you had about your client in a personal attack in a public forum? No?

I thought not.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: GUEST,observer
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 08:36 PM

CarolC: Ifyou are acting as a friend, then remember tha old adage, "With friends like this, who needs enemies?"

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 08:38 PM

GUEST,observer, I'll pick my friends, and you can pick yours. I'll take responsibility for my decisions, and you can take responsibility for yours.

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 09:00 PM

No, CarolC, I haven't... But that's the difference betweena socail worker and a couselor... The social worker deals with issues that involve the vendors "right to know" as opposed to the counselor who maintains strick confidentiality.

Let me give you an example. Woman come in and has been evicted from her home and needs shelter, food, etc. The social worker goes to work. "Mr. Taybor, I've gotta lady with 3 kids who has been evicted and needs a place for a week or so while we........" This goes on every day on social work... Certain amounts of information need to be shared inorder to help folks... That, in a nut shell, is social work...

Now, a counselor, is a different story. Same lady. Same scenerio except now you know that this woman is suffering from depression and that her husband has been abusing her and the kids and having an affair with the lady down the street. This is confidential.

I think, perhaps, is that WYSusan was trying to act as a social worker and some folks got caught up in thinking she was acting as a counselor. I don't know?

And in socail work, if the client doesn't follow thru, hey, on to the next case... Sounds cruel but it isn't... Just the nature of the beast...

There use to be a joke among the folks I worked with that went:

How many social workers does it take to change a light bulb?

Answer: One.... but it has to want to be changed...

With that, I will now bow out of this thread...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 09:42 PM

What a joke. And you wonder why I come here for entertainment? On this one I don't even have to rile anyone up.

Any one got some popcorn?

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: hesperis
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 10:04 PM

Those social work services were not for me alone. They were for my husband, primarily, as he is the one legally allowed to work here and physically capable of it when his ADD is managed. And the resources that were dug up WILL be used - by my husband, the person they were originally for. My willingness to go "through with it" depends on him.

(WYSIWYG - I'm sorry that you have a huge phone bill trying to help me to help him, but those resources will be used. You can send him a bill for it if you want, I'll pm you the address if you request it, and would have requested your email information for him to contact you about this if you hadn't stopped replying to my PMs.)

Leaving is not my choice. And I have told WYSIWYG that, as well. She assumed that it was my choice and stopped replying to my PMs. She obviously stopped reading them as well.

It is his choice. Because he would rather drop me off at the border to go live in a shelter than get a part-time job for 3 months to deal with immigration so that I can get a part-time job here too and we can get an apartment and not live at his parents place. Because I am not worth it to him because I am sick too often and he can't deal with that. Because he treats me like an invalid even when I'm telling him I'm ok and can do things today, and then doesn't bother to check on me when I've been in bed for hours sick and without food.

I've been trying to illegally get contract work while here so that I can earn money to stay with him... and he won't even get a part-time job.

He plays computer games all day while he is *physically* capable of holding down a full-time job, while I am studying more web design techniques to make myself more employable and trying to get contracts.

His ADD prevents him from being able to concentrate enough for a full-time job. So what? So get a part-time job within your limits and do SOMETHING, especially since his parents are willing to support us through the immigration process! I'm trying to do something. (Unfortunately I didn't find any contracts, too many people want full-featured shopping cart software for $25 when it would cost me thousands of hours to make something like that and I'd need more software to do it since I can't hand-code it yet.)

He says that it is too draining to take care of me when I'm sick. But I'm not always the same grade of sick, sometimes I'm quite capable of things. He doesn't have to treat me like an invalid except when my legs don't work right (once a month). Even when I have a headache I can still walk, I can still fix myself a can of soup or something, while shading my eyes against the light.

My legs do not affect my brain. It is not difficult to use a laptop computer in bed. When the light hurts my eyes I turn the brightness down, or I turn it off when it gets too bad. I have always been articulate. Posting on a forum has nothing to do with the health of my legs unless the computer is in another room when I get that sick. (Which, again, is once a month and I don't ever really know when it'll happen because I've never been regular.)

I don't need the ER, as what I have is chronic, not emergency. I need a regular doctor, which I cannot have in this country. I also need someone to drive me to the doctor because when I'm not sick the doctors tend to believe that I'm not sick at all. It's only when they see me sick that they believe me and actually order tests.

I can't afford a cab on welfare, I certainly can't afford an ambulance on welfare, I can't afford non-covered treatments (that work!) on welfare, I can barely afford RENT on welfare. My mother never took me to the doctor for reasons that were valid to her.

I LIKED working as a dishwasher. I liked WORKING. I am allergic to chemicals and smoke (of all kinds, not just cigarette smoke), and was forced to leave the job because it made me sick. Believe what you will. Choose not to believe the doctors who actually ordered tests, and choose to believe the doctors who did not order tests and merely told me (and my mother, who I inherited these conditions from) that it was all in my head and I just needed to get a job. I HAD a job. I liked it, I was good at it, it left me room to think about creative things while working, the boss and coworkers were pleased with my performance... and I had to leave it.

I am not choosing to leave Steve. I have told Susan this and she is ignoring it for whatever reason. I have, over and over, decided to stay. I have, over and over, tried to help him to find what he's capable of doing in order that we can be together and that he will have a good life even if we can't be together. It is his choice that I leave.

It is not his choice to leave me at the border but considering past attitudes from border guards I doubt they would let him through even to drop me off at a shelter, for fear that he'd be trying to illegaly immigrate to Canada. (Especially with all the Bush-dodgers trying to get across.)

The parents have been much more supportive lately, and think that Steve married me and that we should work it out. They also think that he's going to have to do what's best for him. He's decided that what's best for him is for me to not be in his life.

I did not give up. My instinct is to stay... but what can I do when he wants me to leave?

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 10:10 PM

Uh Hesperis,

   I hate to point this out, but you have PM'd me quite differently about how YOU want to leave. Not once have you otherwise to me. Pick a story and stick to it sweetie.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: LilyFestre
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 10:11 PM

That should read...not once have you said otherwise to me.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 10:14 PM

Pass me a Pepsi, OK?

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: mg
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 10:32 PM

You're absolutely right that he should take whatever kind of temporary part-time job he can get. You might have married someone too immature to cut the mustard, and admittedly, you come with a lot of baggage. The parents will, if they are at all financially capable, at least pay for a doctor's visit so that you can carry a letter with you across the border saying you need immediate medical attention. Let him cross the border with you if that is his and/or your final decision. The worst they can do is say no. If it is not (your fianl decision), try again to work it out. Concentrate on one thing..if the marriage is truly over, and that is your health. If it is not truly over, concentrate on your marriage and your health and then your finances. Don't try to start a company, don't try to make CD's or plunge into artistic endeavors. Just concentrate on earning a little bit of money and eating right and getting fresh air etc. You need professional guidance in a lot of areas. Seek out a social worker and a counselor, and a marriage counselor if you both are willing to try to save the marriage. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Hesperis getting divorced
From: hesperis
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 11:03 PM

I *have* a company. It makes $5 a month, which is more than he's making right now, although he has inheritances and savings. If I'd had the resources to start it properly, it would be doing a lot better by now, because I built it good and solid, and I built it on what I can actually do.

Anyway, today I found a book among my stuff called "I could do anything, if I only knew what it was" - great book. It's what got me doing web hosting and studying for eventual entry into game design. I brought it with me because I thought he might be interested in reading it. Well, months ago he wasn't interested in it. Now, after suffering through interests inventories that are completely flat and don't suggest anything, he actually read it when I handed it to him. So, now he knows what he wants to do.

But the reason he hasn't gotten a part-time job in the past 3 months is because he wasn't sure if he wanted to be with me. And now he says he loves me but he knows I'm not his mate.

Yes, we're young, and we didn't know exactly what we were getting into. He didn't realize that he didn't actually want to be with me, and I didn't realize that he wasn't willing. But don't accuse me of a lack of commitment, because that's one thing I'm definitely capable of.