The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan

Subject: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: cool hand Tom
Date: 26 Mar 05 - 09:14 PM

Hi all i just listened too the new pogues album which has a live version on side B.Amazing Shane is one of the guys who got me into folk,many think he is a waste im not naming names but in his day he was a wonderfull songwriter.Unfortunatlely now he has many problems and i hope things get better.I have heard him called a waste of skin ect but hey didnt many of our heroes die an addict death.It was just great to hear the new album and remind me what there music did for me.

       Regards Tom.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: Goose Gander
Date: 26 Mar 05 - 10:29 PM

Does this include new studio material?

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: Brían
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 01:46 AM

Here is a review: The Ultimate Collection Released . I am not ashamed to say I am a fan of Shane McGowan's writing. I think he was capable of some of the best writing I have ever seen, period.

Brían

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST,Allen
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 03:52 AM

Shane is brilliant, but drink really did wreck his voice.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: Big Tim
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 03:55 AM

"Ultimate" is a misnomer: nothing new there, tho nice to see "London Girl" included, one of my favourites, a somewhat underrated MacGowan masterpiece.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: Myrtle
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 06:09 AM

Saw Shane and the gang at Manchester near Christmas, and they were brilliant.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: paddymac
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 08:38 AM

There is a very well done, though also very sad, documentary on Shane and the band, called "Should I fall from grace." A friend found it at the local library and checked it out. A great writer and performer, until his "fall from grace." Delighted to hear that he seems to have got it under some kind of control and continues to perform.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 10:38 AM

geldof on the pogues essay.

A good read here, Geldof's essay now being part of the liner notes of Shane's latest. Very true.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 01:04 PM

Shane... One hell of a song-writer... Christy Moore is the best person to hear sing his songs...

But I'll never give that 'waste of skin' another thin dime...

I'll happily download " The Ultimate Collection"... but most of their live recordings have left me pretty cold... So I don't expect I'll keep it...

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: Brían
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 01:26 PM

Geldof's essay however glib is erroneous. There is a reason why Woody, Dylan Shane and others drew such rich connections fron what he despises. Níl aon tinteán mar do thinteán fhéin.

Brían

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: mad2
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 03:39 PM

saw shane perform around this time last year - great night - many devoted fans - very lively audience, thought they would riot coz he took so long to get on stage - atmosphere electric- I last saw him with pogues well over 20 years ago.
i couldnt help feeling sad when i saw the state that he was in! Im sure he would despise anyone who said that they felt sorry for him - but Im afraid i did - he's still really a youngish man but he looks ruined.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: Nerd
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 04:03 PM

I agree that Geldof's essay is glib, smug and superior.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 04:21 PM

So you folks only read the first secion of the article?!?!?!?!

I think Geldofs essay is FANTASTIC!

How in the f#ck coudl you call...

" But I had rejected it all. I spat my rejection through The Boomtown Rats and deafened myself with my own shrill insistence. I had, exactly like those other earlier ones, (though for different reasons) jammed my own fingers in my ears. Bot then, if I am being truthful, I couldn't ignore the Chieftains. I couldn't deny Planxty or The Bothy Band, Clannad etc. This stuff was sublime. This was music from forever. Of profound depth, skill and passion. And this was very unsettling to me in my pop certainties."

... Glib, smug??

And if he comes off to you as superior, maybe it's because he IS!

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: goodbar
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 04:31 PM

shane is amazing. the pogues are what got me into traditional music and helped me open my mind to other stuff as well. shane was an amazing songwriter and singer and i can't stop listening to the pogues reunion show i downloaded a couple of weeks ago.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST,working class grammer school drunkard
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 06:56 PM

another public school rebel wastrel.. ?????


the man is very talented and i hope he dont die too young..

but he had some uncommon privileged choices and conections..
and failed to to make the most of what was served up on a silver spoon.


same as joe strummer..

same as.. a very long list..

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 07:16 PM

Shane won his scholarship to Westminster school by ability and someone recognising his amazing literary talent. Hardly a silver spoon, that implies money and no brain?

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST,working class grammer school even drunkardie
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 07:40 PM

yeah so.. once he got their

despite his origins..

he still had many of the advantages of silver spoonism

served up on a plate..

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST,Big Folker
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 07:52 PM

Just heard the cd, got it as a pressie for my birthday (35 its all down hill from here ;o) and love it. granted Shanes voice on disc two is'nt all it could be but we all have our problems, god bless ya Shane.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: Brían
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 10:09 PM

I'll admit I didn't read the whole essay when I made that last post, but after just finishing it now, I'd rather be listening to Rum Sodomy and the Lash

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 03:51 AM

BTW has anyone heard Shane and Christy's stuff together from the Late Late Show? ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST,Simons..
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 04:11 PM

The greatest songwriter of his generation. Insanely talented.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 05:03 PM

A typically self-indulgent and overblown essay. A deluge of words does not necessarily demonstrate insight. The young always scorn their past, but in time must come to terms with it, and even take pride in it. If the English had greater accurate knowledge of and respect for their own culture and history in general England would be a better place.

Some of McGowan's songs re pretty damn good. And there is a considerable tradition of the tortured drunken or drugged genius, not just from Ireland.

But there truly was a privileged family connection. A cousin of Shane McGowan's is a parter (one of the more senior ones) in a top 50 central London lawfirm. His party piece to liven up partners' meetings used to be to take out his front false teeth (polo accident, I think) and demonstrate the family likeness.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 05:09 PM

You don't think the family may be more blessed with raw intellect than priviledge? Not all successful people come from financially secure backgrounds. But the majority are probably pretty high on the old mensa scale. If his cousin is a partner in a law firm, heaven forbid he may have earned the place through sheer bloody hard work.
And Shane DID NOT, categorically DID NOT, come into this world with a silver spoon anywhere in the near vicinity. You'll just have to take my word for that, or not.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: Brían
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 08:33 PM

I happen to love the irregular rhyme scheme on THE OLD MAIN DRAG (ABAB, AAAB, ABBC, AAAB, AABB). It really adds an added jolt to the emotional impact of the song. I don't care what Shane's roots are. He is a good song writer. Bob Dylan spent the first few years of his career hiding the fact that he was Jewish and from the Midwest. It doesn't make his early work any less powerful.

Brían

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST,Simons
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 10:02 PM

The guy is a genius, his background is irrelevant.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST,Sidewinder.
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 11:02 PM

The drink is a cruel mistress that takes a hold on many a great talent. The likes of Dylan Thomas, Brendan Behan, Rimbaud, Baudelaire etc.etc. all succumbed to her promises of sweet oblivion and yet did not ever expound any negativity on their plights. Maybe it fuelled their inner creative demons to greater literary heights and maybe it eased a rollercoaster of a lifestyle that few ever really travaille. Shane is a current "Rider on The Storm" and fascinating to follow as he explores the inner demons that most of his critics are afraid to even acknowledge, let alone deal with, long may he ride!

Regards.

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: mindblaster
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 03:07 AM

Shane was born in Kent and attended Westminster public school.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 04:40 AM

Correct. He won a scholarship to it.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST,El Greko
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 06:16 AM

I've always hated Shane's performances but loved his writing.

But to call him "The greatest songwriter of his generation" is lionising him beyond his worth and offensive to others who strove to express and educate without antics, without shock tactics, with more compassion. It's easy to say "fuck you" in frustration, much harder to show tolerance.

He is bloody good, a genius even. Leave it at that.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: Big Tim
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 10:02 AM

Shanes's origins are definitely "humble". His father, Maurice, a Dubliner, worked for the department store C & A, and his mother was born on a small farm, just outside Puckaun in Co. Tipperary. She was, is, a fine traditional singer. Shane was born in Kent and taken to Tipp when only months old and spent the next six years of his life there. Most of his work is influenced one way or another by those childhood days on the farm. His uncles gave him bottles of Guinness even then, so it's little wonder that he became alcohol dependent.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST,jacob
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 11:33 AM

Total crap! How can anybody say that most of their latter work was influenced by the period of their life up to six years old? The bloke wrote a few decent pop songs, so fucking what!

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: PoppaGator
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 01:03 PM

Richard Bridge said:

"A typically self-indulgent and overblown essay. A deluge of words does not necessarily demonstrate insight. The young always scorn their past, but in time must come to terms with it, and even take pride in it...."

The way I read it, Geldof described how, as a youngster, he scorned Irish nostaligia (for reasons he describes, quite persuasively, as justifiable), and then how he did come to terms with it (largely thanks to Shane McGowan, Van Morrison, and other artists). What's the matter with that?

Gaining entrance to higher education as a "scholarship boy" is indeed a bit of good fortune, and may well be the result of inborn native intelligence rather than of "hard work," but it is not at all the type of privilege normally connoted by the phrase "silver spoon."

Also, not every scholarship student is able to move smoothly into the milieu of the privileged classes, no matter how intelligent or how successful academically. Shane's cousin was obviously able to shed or mask his humble origins successfully enough to find his way to the upper echelons of his London law firm; Shane (very obviously) never had that kind of flexibility, but it can certailny be aruged that his accomplishments have been greater.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: Brían
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 01:08 PM

O.K., anyone wan to give me your first-born for the first six years of his or her life? We could try a little social psychology experiment. No, the Jesuits already proved that they only needed the child for the first six years to affect him or her for the rest of their life. I think Ericson, Piaget, and Skinner would back me up on that.

Brían

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST,Simons
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 01:59 PM

I was stating an opinion, maybe it looked like I was making it out be fact, which I wasn't, sorry. I can't think of anybody that even came close, thats where opinions differ.


A person with a genius IQ, is a genius. That's a fact, Shane MacGowan is a genius. No maybe about it.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: Ernest
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 02:01 PM

Call it genius or what you like, the man wrote some really grat songs!Yours
Ernest

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: mandoleer
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 02:19 PM

Jacob, have you tried reading the words of some of his songs as poetry instead of just listening to them as pop songs? Many people can put together a pop song, but to write words that can stand without the music takes a bit more. I've not heard the latest offering, but the idea of his voice going off rather tickles me.....

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST,Allen
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 02:27 PM

Your first six years can affect you very deeply. You want a literary example, H. H. Munro and Kipling.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 02:59 PM

jacob are you crackers?

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST,Simons
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 08:35 PM

He has to be..

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: Brían
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 10:12 PM

I like the chocolate ones the best. I recall eating most of a box of them myself on a walk-a-thon.

Is Fearr iad na brioscaí a bheith ite agam riamh.

Brían

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 04:56 PM

To compare MacGowan to a poet like Kipling is rich, but necessary. Just see how much the Pogues lyrics that Faber put out in 1989 in book form fetches on Amazon. Shane is a genius but idle. Most people's shape for the years to come takes place up to the age of five. MacGowan by his own admission used to get four guinesses if he was a good boy or someone won on the horses. I'd say his upbringing has had a dramatic effect on his life and lyrics. 'Barrel O' Smoke' is a very good example of both his preoccupations and his life or 'world'. If you're looking for a public-facing genius, his friend Nick Cave constantly puts out albums of dramatic, penetrative depth bi-yearly (certainly recently)- Shane should write a book.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST,Allen
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 05:31 PM

Umm, I wasn't making a direct comparison. I was saying one's first few years can affect you deeply, like it did with Kipling and Munro.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: Big Tim
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 03:47 PM

The song GUEST is "Bottle of Smoke" (1988) on the album, "If I Should Fall from Grace with God". It's about a day at the horse racing, specifically, the Cheltenham Gold Cup. I wouldn't recommend this one to our American friends as it contains the line, "Fuck the Yanks and drink their wives". MacGowan always speaks his mind!

This track, and many others, wouldn't be the mind blowing sound that it is without the music provided by the other Pogues; Jem Finer, Philip Chevron, Terry Woods, Andrew Ranken, Spider Stacy, Darryl Hunt, and James Fearnley on accordion.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim
Date: 12 Feb 06 - 05:40 AM

The Pogues and just got a lifetime achievement award at the "Irish Grammys" in Dublin.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 10:36 AM

The Pogues jet out tomorrow for a tour of the US, their first there in 15 years.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: number 6
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 11:28 AM

Shane Mcgowan certainly is one of the finest songwriters (without argument) in our times.

sIx

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 11:54 AM

Some ill-considered views re: S.G.'s "background". On the one hand, a scholarship and a financially-successful cousin do not constitute "privilege" in the silver-spoon sense. On the other hand, Shane "admitting" that his uncles regularly plied him with Guinness when he was four-years-old does not necessarily mean that his uncles regularly plied him with Guinness when he was four-years-old ... In the end of course his background is irrelevant - he either writes good songs or he doesn't.

Subject: RE: The Pogues and Shane Mcgowan
From: number 6
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 10:14 PM

Well said thurg.

sIx