BS: Where's the Global Warming

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 12:14 AM

The motivation is purely economic. I get these 43 watt CFs at Walmart for $8.44 that put off 200 watts of light. Great for the garage.

Same way with gas consumption. I drive as little as possible, combine trips. Search out the cheapest gas on gasbuddy.com, add acetone to my gas, blow my tires up to 40psi, whatever it takes to save money.

Yesterday I went to the land fill and got a huge yellow plastic trash can, not a bin, for recycleables. Not for civic duty but because it easier for me to keep them out of the garbage and put them in the big yellow can.

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 11:54 PM

Sure...some folks with scientific expertise speculate on how we might "Terraform" Mars, but no one seriously expects to be doing that anytime soon....but certain experiments on the processes that would be needed to do it on Mars can be beneficial here first! It's the thinking that is important, not some narrow, distant goal.

So glad to hear you are now totally ecologically balanced....I have a way to go yet. I still have a few tungsten light bulbs, and can't afford the best insulation or solar panels or electric cars.

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 11:36 PM

OK. I just stopped all my self destructive behavior.

Now it's your turn.

Before we emigrate to Mars, we have to get some global warming going on there and produce some greenhouse gasses.

I have seen Saganesque plans to send robotic atmosphere producing machines there to get it ready for human occupation and subsequent raping. Trees should grow good there with 92% CO2

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 11:00 PM

Carl Sagan didn't reckon on the ability of Red Adair and his cohorts to put those fires out so fast!

But that is not the point...Carl Sagan may not have been right, but it was still a good idea to put the fires out! And it makes little difference whether this warming is serious or minor...or whether we cause most of it or it is a natural cycle....the fact is, *WE* are making it worse, and it is a good idea to STOP a lot of our self-destructive behavior!

Where did we get this idea that we don't have to DO anything until all experts totally agree we have a problem, and we are out of resources, hungry and miserable? Does no one even consider that in our situation (Mars doesn't seem to available for emigration), it's best to err on the side of caution?

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 10:34 PM

If Mars's atmosphere is 92% CO2, where's the global warming there? Venus's atmosphere is only 64% CO2.

How do you know an expert when you see one? Remember Carl Sagan, the Guru warning that we would have a nuclear winter because of the oil wells burning in Kuwait in '91?

I think the experts can't decide if it's global cooling or warming.

What is the procedure to ORDER countries to do something that is completely internal? Embargo them? Embargo Brazil and China will trade with them. Threaten them with war? Deny their sovereignty?

Only way I see is through the UN which in my opinion is dysfunctional and corrupt.

Oh by the way there is a dandy interactive map of mars at Google. You can see every pimple and pit. There are some places that look suspiciously like eroded riverbeds about 2/3rds of the way up just to the right if center.

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 10:26 PM

It's not too smart to get into a tickle-fight with Tars Tarkas.

EEEK!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 10:03 PM

Wow! I guess they did have enough beer!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Peace
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 08:25 PM

Sorry, Don. But I think you're making that up.
The proof is here.

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 08:20 PM

"How did Mars's atmosphere get the way it is?"

The diameter of Mars is slightly more than half that of Earth, and its mass is approximately 11% of that of Earth. It is probable that Mars doesn't have sufficient gravity to retain much of an atmosphere.

Statistics regarding the Martian atmosphere:

Atmospheric pressure – 0.7 – 0.9 kPa
Carbon dioxide – 95.32%
Nitrogen – 2.7%
Argon – 1.6%
Oxygen – 0.2%
Carbon monoxide – 0.07%
Water vapor – 0.03%
Nitric oxide – 0.01%
Neon – 2.5%
Krypton – 300ppb
Xenon – 80 ppb
Ozone – 30ppb
Methane – 10.5ppb

The high level of carbon dioxide (95.32%) probably comes from heavy volcanic activity in Mars' history. There is evidence that it was tectonically very active in the past. One of its features is Olympus Mons, the largest known volcano in the solar system. It's extinct now, and Mars seems to be tectonically dead. At one time it had substantial amounts of water, as witnessed by huge canyons and rills that couldn't have been cut out by anything but flowing water (at least as far as we know; it's doubtful that the Martians had enough beer to do all that). In any case, it's also probable that most of the water dissipated into space as vapor. However, it's hoped, for the sake of future explorers and/or settlers (assuming a lot of terraforming), that much of it is locked up underground as ice.

But before we try to turn Mars into a vacation resort planet, we'd probably better do a few things to try to keep this one from turning into a pizza oven.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 06:58 PM

Al, what you...and I...and everyone has to do is read, pay attention to the experts, then elect leaders who will also listen to the experts. We can do the individual stuff like light bulbs and insulation also, but some of the big stuff needs to be ORDERED done by someone in charge.

That's how we save the rainforest...we ORDER people to stop trashing it, and enforce the order. Brazil used to ISSUE chain saws to poor farmers, so they could hack out a new farm every 2-3 years...Japan and China are stripping Borneo and Indonesia for plywood and chopstick material.

We 'almost' stopped whaling, but logging is much harder. If we could get the U.N.s attention from petty squabbling over religious wars, we might make some headway!

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 06:40 PM

OK Peace, turn that knob back about halfway.

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 06:38 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Peace
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 06:29 PM

"Also if anybody here knows what to do about this global warming let's hear it."

Elementary, my dear Watson, elementary. Cool it down a bit.

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 05:36 PM

Like what? Are they secret?

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/solutions/ is all bout increasing efficiencies. That will happen automatically when the price of oil and electricity get high enough.

We were threatens with a 75% elcetric bill hike here. I went arounf and replaced all the light bulbs with Compact Flourescents. I am putting Microfoil refelective insulation to my attic. There are even solar assisted AC systems. There are governmant rebates on various insulation and soalr powered upgrades that people can take advantage of.

All it takes is monetary incentives.

Now what the hell are you going to do to keep people from trashing the rainforrest?

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Amos
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 11:00 AM

Al:

I suggest you sneak into the film "An Inconvenient Truth", halfway through. I say this because I am guessing you wuldn't pay for it. But there are a number of very good suggestions therein.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 10:31 AM

The Union of Concerned Scientists has a gateway page to a whole pantload of "what to do's"...

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/solutions/

Git Readin'!

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 11:14 PM

How did Mars's atmosphere get the way it is?

Also if anybody here knows what to do about this global warming let's hear it.

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 10:40 PM

Why, of course they are edited by lawyers! We can't have scary scenarios being laid unvarnished before the public at large...why they might begin to worry and do something awkward....like demand their government curtail the way business interests run the world!

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 08:06 PM

Climate reports sent to the White House are highly edited before they are released to Congress and to the public. They are not edited by a scientist, they are edited by a lawyer—a former lobbyist for the oil companies.

This is part of a story that was aired this past Sunday evening. Clicky. Then click on "Play" just below "Rewriting the Science." They may throw a 30 second commercial at you, but hang in there. This excerpt from the report only lasts for three minutes, but it gives you the gist of the longer story.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 06:55 PM

The dinosaurs walked the earth for 160 million years before they got wiped out when a piece of debris left over from the creation of the solar system collided with the planet, changing weather conditions so drastically that they couldn't survive. The disappearance of the great lizards allowed mammals, then, little squeaky things that hid in holes and scurried through the branches, to evolve and eventually take over. But no species, no matter how powerful—or how cunning—has a lease on the planet. No guarantees. Even humans, with the intelligence they are so proud of, can be wiped out the same way the dinosaurs were. Only a few weeks ago, a chunk of rock the size of Texas passed across earth's orbit, missing it by only a few hundred thousand miles. That's a very near miss, and it's my understanding (and I try to keep up on these things) that astronomers didn't even see it coming. A collision like the one that wiped out the dinosaurs could happen at any time. So we are no safer than the dinosaurs. But—unlike the dinosaurs, we have it within our power to alter our environment in a number of ways, any of which could be sufficient to cause our own extinction.

Anyone who knows anything about meteorology and other planetary sciences knows this. There have been examples in the past, when whole societies have wiped themselves off the map due to their lack of foresight. They caused their own Collapse.

And nowhere is it written that this kind of catastrophe cannot happen on a planetary scale. It has happened before. Venus, our "sister planet" is the way it is because of (and where have we heard this before?) a runaway greenhouse effect.

We are supposed to be an intelligent species. But if we continue in our dull-witted complacency and don't face the all-too-obvious facts and use that intelligence—and damned soon—humannity may not survive for many more centuries.

If, indeed, that long.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 06:26 PM

Yep.
It was hotter'n a wildcat's ass here today.
Feels just like summer.

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: TIA
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 05:59 PM

You are 100% correct SINSULL. It has happened many times in the history of the planet. The creatures that went extinct then couldn't see it coming, and if they were causing it (e.g. the oxygen-producing, but anaerobic, bacteria who poisoned themselves off in the Pre-Cambrian) could do nothing about it. We are different...aren't we?...maybe...

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 05:32 PM

You are all missing the point. The earth will go on with or without us. Global Warming is a problem only to that ridiculously egotistical creature called man. Once he eliminates himself. time and nature will produce the next generation of earthlings, ones who can survive in the heat.

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: DougR
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 04:40 PM

Good on, Ebbie! Perhaps you have now lived long enough to see a glass half full instead of one half empty. Congratulations!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 12:04 AM

That's because Rush and Sean and Ann and Britt are insisting that that the warmth they are distinctly feeling on their watertight asses is just more evil lib'rul media propaganda.

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 07:57 PM

Some frogs refuse to believe that the water is starting to boil too, you know...

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 10:52 PM

Well, we had a cool spring and now it is payback time.

Looking at records in my neck of the woods:

Record high for July is 107 in 1936. Average high is 87 Today's high was 93. Tonight's low is supposed to be 76.

Record low for July was 55 Average low is 66

I don't know the date for the July low but the record low for January was -7F in 1984.

So dang, It looks like it was a lot warmer 70 years ago. Maybe there was a global cooling trend that bottomed out in 1984.

In searching for records I stumbled on this:

RECORD SNOWFALL in UPPER MIDWEST- DEC 2000

NOAA/National Severe Storms Laboratory, Norman, OK1
Cooperative Institute for Meteorological Satellite Studies, University of Wisconsin-Madison2

First cold December in years

After several mild winters, the upper Midwest experienced near record low temperatures and high snowfall during the month of December 2000.

For example, the mean temperature in Madison was 11.2 F as compared to the December average of 21.7 F. This was 0.4 F above the record low of 10.8 F.
The temperature was subfreezing continuously except for 2 brief periods on the 3rd and 4th when high temperatures reached 34 and 35 F respectively.
The mean minimum temperature was 2.0 F. The temperature fell below zero (-18 C) on 13 days with -21 F (-29.5 C) the coldest on the 25th.

Waterloo IA set a monthly minimum record with -29 F on 25 December..

Record snowfall in Madison

Measurable snow fell on 20 days giving a record total of 35" for the month. The heaviest was 8.2" on the 18th, followed by 5.0" on the 11th, 4.6" on the 20th.

Total liquid equivalent for the month was only 1.39" giving an average snow/liquid ratio of almost 30 to 1. Most snowfall occured when the temperature was between 5-15 F. In some cases the snow/liquid ratio was as high as 40 to 1.
The highest Madison snow depth of 17" tied for the greatest December snow depth.

Milwaukee set a new snowfall record of 49.5" in December. This broke the previous record of 27.9" by almost 22"!

Snowfall in Milwaukee was occasionally enhanced by northeasterly flow over Lake Michigan. The 13.6" on the 11th was the greatest December single-day snowfall. There was as much as 32" of snow on the ground at MKE late in the month.
Climate data from Wisconsin are available from the NWS MKE (Milwaukee/Sullivan) Web page.

   Iowa:

    By the 21st, the average snowfall from all stations across the state was 19.8" - already a new record for December Snow depth reached 31" across northeast Iowa (29 December at Tripoli).
      Other record Midwest snowfall for December:

    Marquette MI                89.5" *
    Grand Rapids MI             59.2 " *
    South Bend IN                   44.6 "
    Saginaw MI                         40.3 "
    Dubuque IA                         37.6"
    Rochester MN                     35.3" *
    Waterloo IA                         34.0"
    Rockford IL                         30.1" *
    Green Bay WI                     28.9"
    Des Moines IA                     26.9"
    Springfield MO                      18.0"
    Tulsa, OK                               11.4"
    Oklahoma City OK                8.2" (.8" short of record)

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 10:46 PM

Please remember folks...Weather is not a synonymn for climate.
E.g. weather changes aren't a big deal, climate change another story...

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 08:51 PM

Here in Brisbane, this winter has been weird - occasional nights right down to 6 deg C, with a lot of other nights anything up to nearly 10 deg C warmer than average winter temps for this time of year. And the rain pattern is disturbed - more overcast than normal, but it is not raining.

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 07:31 PM

The relationship between current heat waves, which have caused multiple deaths across the Midwest and West of the US, and global warming, is explained here in an article headlined "Better Get Used to Killer Heat Waves".


A

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 07:44 PM

here's the CNN link to the story

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: freda underhill
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 11:34 AM

Planet running the worst fever in centuries
By John Heilprin in Washington; Sydney Morning Herald
June 23, 2006

THE earth is the hottest it has been in at least four centuries and perhaps in thousands of years. The US National Academy of Sciences reached that conclusion in a broad review of scientific work requested by the US Congress. In a report released on Wednesday it found the "recent warmth is unprecedented for at least the last 400 years and potentially the last several millennia".

A panel of leading climate scientists said the earth is running a fever and that "human activities are responsible for much of the recent warming". Their 155-page report said average global surface temperatures in the northern hemisphere rose about half a degree Celsius during the 20th century. The report was requested in November by the chairman of the House of Representatives science committee, Sherwood Boehlert, a Republican, to address naysayers who question whether global warming is a major threat. The Bush Administration also has maintained that the threat is not severe enough to warrant new pollution controls that the White House says would have cost 5 million Americans their jobs.

The climate scientists Michael Mann, Raymond Bradley and Malcolm Hughes had concluded the northern hemisphere was the warmest it has been in 2000 years. The panel looked at how other scientists reconstructed the earth's temperatures going back thousands of years, before there was data from modern scientific instruments.
For all but the most recent 150 years, scientists from the academy relied on "proxy" evidence from tree rings, corals, glaciers and ice cores, cave deposits, ocean and lake sediments, boreholes and other sources. They also examined indirect records such as paintings of glaciers in the Alps.

Combining that information gave the panel "a high level of confidence that the last few decades of the 20th century were warmer than any comparable period in the last 400 years", the academy said. Overall, the panel agreed that the warming in the past few decades of the 20th century was unprecedented over the past 1000 years, though relatively warm conditions persisted about AD1000, followed by a "Little Ice Age" from about 1500 to 1850.

Between AD1 and 1850, volcanic eruptions and solar fluctuations were the main causes of changes in greenhouse gas levels. But those temperature changes "were much less pronounced than the warming due to greenhouse gas" levels by pollution since the mid-19th century, it said. The academy is a private organisation chartered by Congress to advise the government on science.

AP

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 09:34 AM

so much depends upon

a red wheel barrow

glazed with rain water

beside the white chickens.

    -- William Carlos Williams

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 02:30 AM

I don't care. (That is a joke, OK?)

But do you see what I mean? Are we as a country going to go out sputtering and choking because those with the power so decree?

Some things do give me hope. I get more mail from people than I used to, mail that shows that there are people actively working and exploring ways and means. And I meet far more people who forthrightly agree with the idea that something must be done.

And there is the Mudcat. If the proportion of American Mudcatters who are working to make things better in the US to the Mudcatters who not only want the status quo preserved but resent and resist any call to wake up is indicative of what is going on in the US as a whole, the prognosis is brightening.

Guess I'm just in a low spot.

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 11:39 PM

Ebbie:

If all you have is wheelbarrows, and your life depends on it, apathy is a pretty poor second choice, IMHO.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 10:06 PM

.....and were you aware that Custer was one of the first men to wear an Arrow shirt?

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 09:52 PM

Yes, but Amos, how does an individual's efforts influence, finally, the nations'?

An analogy: You want to turn the creek on your property in to a different bed or course. You contract to get an earthmover to do the job but he is not available until September and this is only June. So do you take a wheelbarrow out there every day and haul water to the new bed, in order to do your part? And you got your neighbors to bring their own wheelbarrows to help?

Just seems pretty hopeless to me.

The other night at music the last four of us were sitting there singing one depressed song after another and our talk in between was no better. I think I may have outlived the era I want to live in.

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 09:18 PM

In addition, because melting ice reduces the albedo of the surface (reflection of hear) and increases the absorption of heat by water (instead of the reflection of heat when it was ice) the warming accelerates from the increased absorption.

The "end" of the thread is reduction of carbon emissions by individuals, by groups, by companies, by cities, by states and by nations.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 08:49 PM

Recently scientists have projected that as the warming thaws permafrost tons of carbon will be released into the atmosphere which will in turn hasten and exacerbate global warming.

The trick to combating the warming is to find and grasp the end of the thread... Until we can do that we'll just be dithering about.

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 08:35 PM

Those bastards from 1910 did it.

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 10:42 AM

Trolls don't taste nice people, so don't bite.

Andy, see here....

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 09:50 AM

There may be oil under the glaciers and polar ice.

The tundra could be cultivated to grow food for the world.

Eskimos could cultivate a tan and go surfing.

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 08:44 AM

Currently record breaking US high temperatures are achieved on a daily basis about 70% if the time.

Have you noticed that the cable news weather reports don't show HOT on their maps anymore - they use "very warm" instead.

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 12:11 AM

Obie:

There is a close correlation going back over hundreds of years between temperature and atmospheric carbon.

The oscillation of these coupled trends is clearly shown, when graphed over the long term, to be in a breakaway climb that begins around 1910.

The last ten to twenty years (I don't have tghe graphs in front of me) are exponentially ramping toward off-the-chart highs, in very close synchronization with each other.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 11:16 PM

"If somebody doesn't make money on it they don't want to do it."

That is the whole problem right there. That is the disease of our civilization. It's not sane. It's not reasonable. It is totally irresponsible, and it's everywhere...because our society revolves around money. And money is an artificial thing that people themselves once created...it isn't real...unless you and everyone else pretend it is, and end up believing it. Then it becomes real, by default, and people serve it and murder for it.

The Indians who killed Custer and his men were outside that system. They didn't value it. They found a lot of paper money on the dead soldiers, took it and used it for ornamentation and starting fires. They could see that it was just little pieces of paper. They had not yet been fooled by the collective dream that white society had enslaved itself to....but the white society was bigger and stronger, so the Indians had no chance. They now serve that same false dream, and they run casinos. Tragic!

We cannot have a healthy planet when vital decisions are made on the basis of someone earning more money.

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:40 PM

TIA,I think that you have stated a truth in that news writers often do not comprehend what they write about and work from a point of view that a good story sells more papers than some rather dry facts. There are also scientists out there who present a dramatic forecast in the hope of attracting some research grants.
That worldwide temperatures are increasing can be a proven fact. Why they are rising can only be theory, but an educated guess based on research acceptable to the wider scientific community should carry considerable weight. There is no denying that a problem exists, but it is caused by many factors. Increasing CO2 levels is part of the problem and mankind must bear some blame for that, but methane and other hydro-carbons emitted from the earth are a larger problem and that is far beyond our control. If there is too much CO2 in the atmosphere more vegitation should grow to absorb it if the natural cycle is allowed to proceed. If we clear more and more vegitation the natural balance of nature is disrupted so that part is simple enough.
What mankind has put into the equation during this cycle is greed. If somebody dosen't make money on it they don't want to do it. Mother Nature can and will take care of herself but it may be at our peril.

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 07:53 PM

Obie, it may certainly be bad wording (and I have a big beef with newspaper writer's imprecise, colloquial, or plain sloppy usage of words that have specific meanings in science ... e.g. theory, sinkhole, etc.), but that does not necessarily indicate bad science. Would you agree with Thomas Reichler (the author of the article in Science to which the newspaper writer was referring) if he stated it as "tropical climate is expanding towards the poles", or "tropical flora and fauna are expanding towards the poles"? He may simply be under the mistaken impression that "the tropics" are defined biologically or climatically, when, in fact as you point out, they are defined geographically or celestially.

As a corollary, not everyone who says "nukular" is a total dummy. Jimmy Carter had a degree in "nukular physics".

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 04:35 PM

My point is mainly that many claims are based on bad science. Bad science may be true or false or any degree in between.
In a related thread on An Inconvenient Truth we are referred to a scientific article that claims that the tropics are expanding toward the poles. This is just another example of extreemly bad science. The tropics area or latitude has nothing to do with global warming and they do not expand or contract. They are the points where the sun's rays land at 90 degrees to the earth at least once a year. Any scientist should know this as fact and not make such stupid statements. When they do it calls to question anything else that they have to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 11:14 AM

People who argue against it do so mainly for the reason that their ego demands that they continue to hold the same position they have have held in the past...regardless...because if they didn't, then they would feel like they "lost". That they cannot bear and will not tolertate.

That is what fuels most of these endless arguments, as a matter of fact...merely people's sheer stubbornness in defending an already established position that they have made an emotional investment in. It's a matter of pride, not reason.

It's the "Vietnam" syndrome. "We can't admit we were wrong, and leave now, because it would be humiliating. It would make us look like losers. People might laugh at us! So...we're gonna stay right where we are, take more losses, and keep saying what we have always said...that we are right and our ideas are the only way to go."

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going." - Richard Nixon

(Or to put it another way: When the insecure are shown to be in error, the insecure go ever more deeply into denial.)

Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 10:15 AM

It's as good science as you can get into a movie tagline though. And if it's explained and expanded on in the moive, then there's no problem with it.