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BS: Bush the Liar.

GUEST,Alphabet 29 Dec 05 - 12:33 AM
Ebbie 29 Dec 05 - 03:33 AM
burntstump 29 Dec 05 - 04:12 AM
Amos 29 Dec 05 - 08:11 AM
DMcG 29 Dec 05 - 08:19 AM
Amos 29 Dec 05 - 08:24 AM
Amos 29 Dec 05 - 08:29 AM
freda underhill 29 Dec 05 - 08:48 AM
GUEST,A 29 Dec 05 - 08:52 AM
Amos 29 Dec 05 - 09:41 AM
Donuel 29 Dec 05 - 09:47 AM
Once Famous 29 Dec 05 - 11:13 AM
GUEST,A 29 Dec 05 - 11:16 AM
CarolC 29 Dec 05 - 01:05 PM
Amos 29 Dec 05 - 01:44 PM
GUEST,A 29 Dec 05 - 01:59 PM
Amos 29 Dec 05 - 02:20 PM
dianavan 29 Dec 05 - 04:17 PM
GUEST,A 29 Dec 05 - 04:40 PM
Big Al Whittle 29 Dec 05 - 05:01 PM
Amos 29 Dec 05 - 06:58 PM
Azizi 29 Dec 05 - 09:07 PM
Azizi 29 Dec 05 - 09:13 PM
GUEST,Alphabet Gang 29 Dec 05 - 09:22 PM
Once Famous 29 Dec 05 - 09:32 PM
Bobert 29 Dec 05 - 09:34 PM
GUEST,Alphabet 29 Dec 05 - 10:45 PM
GUEST 29 Dec 05 - 10:52 PM
dianavan 30 Dec 05 - 01:56 AM
GUEST,A 30 Dec 05 - 07:57 AM
TIA 30 Dec 05 - 10:07 AM
GUEST,A 30 Dec 05 - 10:34 AM
Amos 30 Dec 05 - 10:39 AM
GUEST,A 30 Dec 05 - 10:39 AM
GUEST,A 30 Dec 05 - 10:43 AM
GUEST,A 30 Dec 05 - 10:46 AM
Amos 30 Dec 05 - 10:59 AM
TIA 30 Dec 05 - 12:01 PM
GUEST,Old Guy 30 Dec 05 - 12:10 PM
CarolC 30 Dec 05 - 02:14 PM
DougR 30 Dec 05 - 03:50 PM
CarolC 30 Dec 05 - 03:57 PM
Troll 30 Dec 05 - 04:19 PM
Troll 30 Dec 05 - 04:24 PM
Azizi 30 Dec 05 - 04:46 PM
Amos 30 Dec 05 - 05:24 PM
Peace 30 Dec 05 - 05:34 PM
Peace 30 Dec 05 - 05:43 PM
Peace 30 Dec 05 - 05:52 PM
Peace 30 Dec 05 - 05:59 PM
Once Famous 30 Dec 05 - 06:05 PM
GUEST,Old Guy 30 Dec 05 - 06:43 PM
Peace 30 Dec 05 - 06:45 PM
Greg F. 30 Dec 05 - 07:01 PM
Amos 30 Dec 05 - 07:12 PM
Peace 30 Dec 05 - 07:59 PM
Peace 30 Dec 05 - 08:08 PM
GUEST 30 Dec 05 - 08:11 PM
Bobert 30 Dec 05 - 08:22 PM
Greg F. 30 Dec 05 - 08:24 PM
GUEST,Old Guy 30 Dec 05 - 08:24 PM
Peace 30 Dec 05 - 08:27 PM
Peace 30 Dec 05 - 08:29 PM
Peace 30 Dec 05 - 08:32 PM
GUEST,Old Guy 30 Dec 05 - 09:30 PM
Amos 30 Dec 05 - 09:57 PM
Amos 30 Dec 05 - 10:03 PM
Peace 30 Dec 05 - 10:03 PM
Ron Davies 30 Dec 05 - 10:28 PM
dianavan 30 Dec 05 - 11:12 PM
GUEST,Old Guy 30 Dec 05 - 11:20 PM
Peace 30 Dec 05 - 11:24 PM
Amos 31 Dec 05 - 12:03 AM
GUEST,Old Guy 31 Dec 05 - 12:35 AM
Peace 31 Dec 05 - 12:36 AM
Ron Davies 31 Dec 05 - 03:19 PM
Amos 31 Dec 05 - 04:06 PM
Amos 31 Dec 05 - 04:16 PM
Peace 31 Dec 05 - 05:31 PM
Bobert 31 Dec 05 - 07:12 PM
GUEST,Alphabet 01 Jan 06 - 01:04 AM
GUEST,Old Guy 01 Jan 06 - 02:07 AM
Ron Davies 01 Jan 06 - 08:05 AM
Ron Davies 01 Jan 06 - 08:08 AM
GUEST,Tam the man 01 Jan 06 - 08:08 AM
Bobert 01 Jan 06 - 08:15 AM
Ron Davies 01 Jan 06 - 08:20 AM
GUEST,Mullah Bob 01 Jan 06 - 11:44 AM
Ron Davies 01 Jan 06 - 12:13 PM
Peace 01 Jan 06 - 06:23 PM
Bobert 01 Jan 06 - 08:16 PM
Peace 01 Jan 06 - 08:18 PM
GUEST,G 02 Jan 06 - 07:42 AM
GUEST 02 Jan 06 - 09:03 AM
Bobert 02 Jan 06 - 09:30 AM
Amos 02 Jan 06 - 03:28 PM
Bobert 02 Jan 06 - 07:38 PM
Peace 02 Jan 06 - 07:41 PM
Ron Davies 02 Jan 06 - 11:39 PM
Bobert 03 Jan 06 - 07:52 AM
GUEST 03 Jan 06 - 09:48 AM
Amos 03 Jan 06 - 11:26 AM
GUEST 03 Jan 06 - 11:28 AM
Amos 03 Jan 06 - 11:34 AM
GUEST,petr 03 Jan 06 - 12:43 PM
Amos 03 Jan 06 - 12:54 PM
GUEST,Mullah Bob 03 Jan 06 - 02:27 PM
Amos 03 Jan 06 - 03:19 PM
Bobert 03 Jan 06 - 08:49 PM
Ron Davies 04 Jan 06 - 12:03 AM
GUEST,Teribus 04 Jan 06 - 10:15 PM
Bobert 04 Jan 06 - 10:24 PM
GUEST,TIA 04 Jan 06 - 10:34 PM
Madeleine 04 Jan 06 - 10:45 PM
number 6 04 Jan 06 - 10:46 PM
Ron Davies 04 Jan 06 - 11:04 PM
GUEST,G 05 Jan 06 - 07:47 AM
Madeleine 05 Jan 06 - 05:21 PM
Ron Davies 06 Jan 06 - 05:31 AM
GUEST,G 06 Jan 06 - 12:39 PM
Madeleine 07 Jan 06 - 08:29 AM
GUEST,G 07 Jan 06 - 08:51 AM
GUEST,G 07 Jan 06 - 08:54 AM
Madeleine 07 Jan 06 - 08:56 AM
Madeleine 07 Jan 06 - 08:56 AM
Ron Davies 08 Jan 06 - 09:18 AM
Big Al Whittle 08 Jan 06 - 11:23 AM
GUEST,Bush the whipping boy 08 Jan 06 - 11:33 AM
Madeleine 08 Jan 06 - 02:56 PM
Peace 08 Jan 06 - 03:05 PM
Arne 08 Jan 06 - 08:46 PM
Peace 08 Jan 06 - 08:49 PM
Peace 08 Jan 06 - 08:53 PM
Peace 08 Jan 06 - 09:17 PM
GUEST 08 Jan 06 - 09:22 PM
Amos 08 Jan 06 - 10:31 PM
GUEST 09 Jan 06 - 01:44 AM
Bobert 09 Jan 06 - 08:00 AM
GUEST,Teribus 09 Jan 06 - 09:45 AM
Amos 09 Jan 06 - 09:48 AM
GUEST,Old guy 09 Jan 06 - 09:59 AM
GUEST 09 Jan 06 - 10:00 AM
Amos 09 Jan 06 - 10:14 AM
Peace 09 Jan 06 - 10:28 AM
GUEST 09 Jan 06 - 12:24 PM
GUEST,G 09 Jan 06 - 12:57 PM
GUEST,RE;NOT JUST A LIAR 09 Jan 06 - 01:03 PM
Arne 09 Jan 06 - 04:22 PM

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Subject: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,Alphabet
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 12:33 AM

I am part of the Alphabet Gang and I thought I'd start a thread to say I think it's not true that Bush lied, about anything. He has always been open and honest with the American people and he deserves our respect because he is our President. Even if he thinks it is necessary to change The Constitution, you whiners should understand that he and his advisors know what's best for all of us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 03:33 AM

Right-o


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: burntstump
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 04:12 AM

Don't look up a pig just flew over!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 08:11 AM

And maybe the Constitution really is outdated too. Oh, there goes another one!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 08:19 AM

You are a member of The Alphabet Gang? Are you sure Bush wants that kind of backing? (Many people here think the answer to that is 'yes', by the way!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 08:24 AM

A few references on Bush's propensity for lying.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 08:29 AM

"No terrorist state poses a greater or more immediate threat to the security of our people and the stability of the world than the regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq." Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld (09.19.02)

"This man poses a much graver threat than anybody could have possibly imagined." President Bush (09.26.02)

"The Iraqi regime is a threat of unique urgency. . . . It has developed weapons of mass death" President Bush (10.02.02)

"There's a grave threat in Iraq. There just is." President Bush (10.02.03)

"There are many dangers in the world; the threat from Iraq stands alone because it gathers the most serious dangers of our age in one place. President Bush (10.07.02)

"The Iraqi regime is a serious and growing threat to peace." President Bush (10.16.02)

"There is a real threat, in my judgment, a real and dangerous threat to America in the form of Saddam Hussein." President Bush (10.28.02)

"I see a significant threat to the security of the United States in Iraq." President Bush (11.01.02)

"Today the world is...uniting to answer the unique and urgent threat posed by Iraq." President Bush (11.01.02)

"The world is also uniting to answer the unique and urgent threat posed by Iraq whose dictator has already used weapons of mass destruction to kill thousands." President Bush (11.23.02)

In January 2003, White House Communications Director Dan Bartlett, when asked "is Saddam an imminent threat to U.S. interests"; he replied "Well, of course he is."
In February 2003, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said "[t]his is about [an] imminent threat."

In May 2003, Ari Fleisher was asked "Didn't we go to war because we said WMD's were a direct and imminent threat to the U.S?" He responded, "Absolutely."
Sources: Daily Mis-Lead 01.28.04, CAP Daily Progress Report 01.29.04


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: freda underhill
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 08:48 AM

lies, damn lies & statistics


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,A
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 08:52 AM

Amos, those same things were said by Clinton, Gore and other members during 98 and 99. Bush does appear to be stupid for repeating that stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 09:41 AM

They were not; context is everything. Gore and Clinton were not preparing a unilateral invasion. Doh.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 09:47 AM

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushlieworked2.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushrepcon5.jpg

etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 11:13 AM

Boldly spoken, Guest Alphabet.

You have the socialists here pegged, and realize there are others, some vocal, some not, who agree with you here on what you have said.

There are some sick people here who do nothing EVERYDAY but undermine what this country does. It's one thing to criticize, but because they have no life, they rant about it here EVERYDAY with their obsessive compulsive rants that solve nothing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,A
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 11:16 AM

I agree! Context is everything.

Some other quotes;

"To strike military and security targets in Iraq that contribute to Iraq's ability to produce, store, maintain and deliver weapons of mass destruction."

"to degrade Saddam Hussein's ability to make and to use weapons of mass destruction. To diminish Saddam Hussein's ability to wage war against his neighbors."

"....support eforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Husein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government government to replace that regime.

I also agree the the above also sounds exactly like something GWB would say.

HOWEVER, the first two statements were by WJC in December, 1998 when he authorized "Operation Desert Fox."

The third is part of the Iraq National Liberation Act that Clinton signed into law in that same time period.

Tha law also include $100 million for some guy named Chalabi who is refered to these days as someone GWB brought into the Picture.

Just seems to be a case of who is saying these things, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 01:05 PM

It's true that Clinton and Gore lied. And Bush lied. When Clinton and Gore lied, people died. When Bush lies, people die. When politicians lie, people frequently die. So what are we going to do about that?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 01:44 PM

The context, oh ye of little brain, is the present, and the mismanagement of the nations treasure, repute, resources and future in pursuit of cross-eyed goals aimed at scratching the rectums of the few and powerful.

The issue is whether George Bush is merely a political liar, a compulsive liar, or a pathological liar. My guess is the latter.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,A
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 01:59 PM

Amos, is your final retort always one of redicule? Has been prevalent in various threads.

I just thought you would like to see the author of the "Iraq Liberation Law". Context can remain the same whether past or present.
Your constant reference to the Constitution and that it should not be ignored seems to be constant proof, don't you think?

Your opinion is acknowledged - your ability to ignore those things that are not of your opinion is also acknowledged.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 02:20 PM

Sorry if I was a little acerbic, nameless one. I just don't see the merit in expiating Bush's lying by pointing to someone else's lying.

A child couldn't get away with such meretricious rationalization, so I see no reason an allegedly grown man should.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: dianavan
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 04:17 PM

"...he and his advisors know what's best for all of us."

He doesn't know what is best for me.

I don't give anybody that much credit.

If you want to sublimate yourself to his final authority, go for it but do not presume that you are 'us'.

Its pretty sad when you need someone else to tell you what is best.

You must have been a very obedient child. You still are. Most people are adults who think for themselves and don't need a 'daddy'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,A
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 04:40 PM

Amos, I am not trying to change your opinion or even try to alter it. It is not important to me. My point is that information was believed by many in this country for a number of years. Using that info to say someone was/is lying is to suggest that dislike and even hatred can cause one to act in an irrational matter.

Arrogance can be amplified by ones' reluctance or even an inability to see simple fact for what it is. Sometimes that arrogance is used as a method to demonstrate superiority. If that be your premise, I feel fortunate to be at the level I am. Rationalization can be used for showing truth as well as trying to show untrue reasons for conduct. Your continuing to do the latter is very evident.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 05:01 PM

Richard the Lionheart
Billy the Kid
Bush the Liar......nah! It'll never catch on. You need something more catchy and memorable with a hook in it, an maybe a rhyme

Bush the Tush!
Bush the Lush!
GWB, with an IQ of 3

no they ain't any good either, but keep trying.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 06:58 PM

Excuse me, but I saw through that information from the beginning; and given his authority to question sources and get a review, you would think the LEAST he could do is come up with a more rational interpretation of shitty data than he did. Don't give me that "everyone believed it" bulllpucky; it just won't wash, and it just ain't so. Thousands of people marched out on the basis of the strong sense that the "information" was "disinformation" and Bush's great failure was refusing top tell the difference.

Then, he made it worse by promoting his stupid and erroneous conclusions as facts.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 09:07 PM

The American Civil Liberties Union ran this ad in the December 29, 2005 edition of The New York Times:

The President Lied to the American People and Broke the Law

The ad features a photograph of President Richard Nixon and current President GWB as well an example of bald face lie that each one of them told.

The example for Nixon was an August 15, 1973 quote denying his involvement or knowledge about Watergate. The example for GWB was an April 20, 2004 statement about the Patriot Act in which he said that wiretaps require court orders.

The ACLU ad calls for the appointment of a special prosecutor to lead a bipartisan investigation of the Bush's administration's spying on US citizens without warrants.

The ACLU ad ends with this powerful statement:

"It's not about promoting a political agenda. It's about preserving American democracy."


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 09:13 PM

Clarification: The implication of GWB's words was that his administration would not wiretap without warrants.

When Bush said that statement quoted above, he must have had his fingers and his toes crossed since prior to that time, and during that time, he had approved widespread warrentless wiretapping of US citizens.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,Alphabet Gang
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 09:22 PM

But Bush didn't tell a lie. Neither did Nixon and neither did Clinton. Clinton did NOT have sex with Richard Nixon, and he didn't with George Bush either. I wouldn't know about Nixon and Bush.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 09:32 PM

The ACLU is a socialist organization. Anyone can pay for an ad.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 09:34 PM

Yeah, A, maybe you would like to go back thru some of the old threads... You know like the ones during the mad-dash-to-war days...

I think you would find them, while not enlightening, at least "Exhibit A" that al ot of us were calling the lies as they were coming from Bush's lips...

This ain't no 20/20 hindsight game we got going here but a lot of folks who have been callin' Bush on his lies going back years... There was a lot of "information" during the mad-dash-to-war that Amos, myslef and others were bringing to the table only to have the Teribus's of the world try to dilute the real facts with endless drivvle....

Yeah, TO WIT: You come in here and make accusations about stuff that you plainly have no knowledge of... (Excuse the preposition at the end of the sentence)... as if you speak from some historical perspective here...

You don't...

If you want to argue points, fine, argue points but please don't come in this joint and try to lecture good folks like Amos on arrogance...

Arrogance is being ill-informed yet putting forth the confidence that you actually know what you are talking about... Let me ask you, A... Do you really think that this joint is filled with a bunch of light-weights that you can just roll over???

Yes___________

No____________

I mean, do a little homework here, man...

Yeah, about 90% of the bad stuff that has happened in Iraq-mire was predicted during the Mad-dash-to-war by someone here who you may think doesn't know sh*t from Shinola...

Well, if that's the case then what does that make yer hero and his little circle of power hungry autocrats...

Bobert (no longer in NC)


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,Alphabet
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 10:45 PM

"The ACLU is a socialist organization."

Never heard this before.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 05 - 10:52 PM

Coming from the same brain that brought us the film Dancing with Wolves I am not surprised


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: dianavan
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 01:56 AM

Azizi -
Do you remember me saying, "I'm sure that the ACLU will have a heyday with this even if Bush is not impeached," on the Should Bush be Impeached, thread? I don't usually say I told you so but this time I will. I told you so, I told you so. I hope they take a strip off of him. He deserves it. How dare he attempt to destroy constitutional freedoms? Lets hope the A.C.L.U. has the support it deserves.

BTW - ACLU stands for the American Civil Liberties Union. It is not a Socialist organization. It is every bit an American institution. What Martin fails to understand is that once your civil liberties are eroded, America dies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,A
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 07:57 AM

bobert, it is all about opinions, some with bias, on both sides of the spectrum. What would lead one to believe that your statements are the fruits of wisdom? You admit to your sources being the NY Times and the Washington Post. Not exactly 'middle of the road' publications. Please tell me, why makes you think I should take your statements to heart?

Dianavan, I am still waiting for someone to tell me (us) what rights are being eroded. In my case, I will say it is to the contrary. I fly monthly and KNOW the chances of my flight being hijacked are miniscule compared to 4 years ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: TIA
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 10:07 AM

About those eroding rights:

Guest A, please submit (PM is fine for privacy):

* a list of all those to whom you sent Christmas cards

* a list of all incoming and outgoing telephone calls for the last three months

* a list of all of your active credit cards, current balances, and recent activity.

I will not look at this data, simply archive it in case the proper authorities might someday require it.

Don't worry, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,A
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 10:34 AM

Tia, I will gladly provide you with even more;

* All Bank account numbers.

* Stock holdings

* Addresses of all family members

* Voting record


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 10:39 AM

A lie, a staement that a condition exists which does not exist, or vice-versa, is not really a matter of opinion.

The man has consistently misled and misguided the country that allegedly elected him into a worse situation than it has been in some time. The cost overrun of the nation is on the order of 8 trillion dollars.

It has become so commonplace for Bush to bullshit the public that when he even acted frank, earlier this month, by saying that the road to "victory" in Iraq is uneven and has been harder than he thought, and so on, the columnists remarked "Oh! Bush is trying candor! How clever."

Years of violence, agony and waste, death and loss, all brought about by one singularly short-sighted order from W's crooked mouth.

Muck about with the Constitution, muck about with the international community, muck about with large corporate interests, and go for the waste.

Wodda maroon.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,A
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 10:39 AM

Oops!

* A record of all donations, political or otherwise

* A list of CDs purchased by type

* Rental properties and the names, ages and gender of who lives there.

* Even the source of the Nazis tie rack I own.

......and your point is (was)?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,A
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 10:43 AM

Amos; No, I am certain he is Caucasian.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,A
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 10:46 AM

It is now time for dining, partying, College ball watching and bringing in the New Year in a Country that is much safer than it was 5 years ago, no matter what it took.


Imagine that! and we can still travel freely about.

Happy New Year - see you next year.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 10:59 AM

Same to you, A. I dunno about the much safer bit; but if you feel that way, enjoy it.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: TIA
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 12:01 PM

Not much personal space on you, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 12:10 PM

Amos of the Alphabet Gang:

Bush did not change the Consitution. You are in the vast minority:

Eighty-one percent (81%) of Republicans believe the NSA should be allowed to listen in on conversations between terror suspects and people living in the United States. That view is shared by 51% of Democrats and 57% of those not affiliated with either major political party.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2005/NSA.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 02:14 PM

About those eroding rights:

Guest A, please submit (PM is fine for privacy):

* a list of all those to whom you sent Christmas cards

* a list of all incoming and outgoing telephone calls for the last three months

* a list of all of your active credit cards, current balances, and recent activity.


--TIA


Tia, I will gladly provide you with even more;

* All Bank account numbers.

* Stock holdings

* Addresses of all family members

* Voting record

* A record of all donations, political or otherwise

* A list of CDs purchased by type

* Rental properties and the names, ages and gender of who lives there.

* Even the source of the Nazis tie rack I own.


--Guest,A


Please send this information to me also.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: DougR
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 03:50 PM

Gee, Azizi, why do you suppose the ACLU has been so slow in demanding that the Justice Department appoint a Special Prosicuter to investigate who leaked the NSA story to the New Yawk Times? They were quick enough to do so when the name of a CIA operative (who had not acted covertly for six years) was leaked to the press. Or perhaps you do not believe that those who leak critical national security information to the press, information that could endanger Americans, should be punished. Hmmmm? (to borrow a phrase from Bobert).

Thanks goodness the Justice Department finally got off it's ass and is launching an investigation. I hope whoever did it is found out, and punished to the full limit of the law. I think he/she will be gone up river for a very long time.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 03:57 PM

The ACLU, by definition, is concerned with preserving civil liberties. Spying on citizens of the US falls under the purview of 'civil liberties'.

Did the ACLU really demand that the Justice Department appoint a special prosecutor when Valerie Plame's name was leaked as a CIA operative?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Troll
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 04:19 PM

Doug, sorry to have to say this, but my ACLU expert (Skeptic) informs me that the Valerie Plame case involved civil liberties (privacy) while the NSA issue is one of national security and possibly constitutional law. The ACLU deals only with civil liberties cases.

The idea that Bush lied about WMD is a little silly since most of the intelligence agencies in Europe also believed it. I'm talking about England, France, Germany, Russia, etc. But, if a lie is repeated often enough, people will believe that it's the truth.

I don't like Bush, but I like people like John Kerry and Ted Kennedy even less. I will give Kerry credit for having the guts to say that he did not read the intelligence reports that the White House sent to the Congress, but he still voted to go to war right along with the rest of them.

Now, some of the Dems claim that they were mislead. How the hell would they know if they didn't read the reports?

Whether or not the decision to go to war was right or not, the fact is that we are there and I think that we must stay until Iraq is able to defend itself against its enemies both foreign and domestic.

We upset the apple cart and it's our job to make that right. We can either stay, and tough it out, or release Saddam, pull our troops out and slink back home.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Troll
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 04:24 PM

CarolC. I just say your post.I think it answers your question.

Has anyone wondered why there has been no hue and cry about the leaking of the CIA "prisons" in eastern Europe, which certainly concern national security more than the Plame case did.

Could there be politics involved?

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 04:46 PM

"ACLU Slams DOJ Investigation of NSA Whistleblower, Says Government Must Independently Investigate Violation of Wiretap Laws (12/30/2005)

NEW YORK - The American Civil Liberties Union today sharply criticized a Justice Department investigation into the disclosure of an illegal National Security Agency domestic eavesdropping operation approved by President George W. Bush.

In a letter to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales as well as two full-page advertisements in the New York Times, the ACLU has called for the appointment of a special counsel to determine whether President Bush violated federal wiretapping laws by authorizing illegal surveillance of domestic targets.

The following statement can be attributed to ACLU Executive Director Anthony D. Romero:


"President Bush broke the law and lied to the American people when he unilaterally authorized secret wiretaps of U.S. citizens. But rather than focus on this constitutional crisis, Attorney General Gonzales is cracking down on critics of his friend and boss. Our nation is strengthened, not weakened, by those whistleblowers who are courageous enough to speak out on violations of the law."

"To avoid further charges of cronyism, Attorney General Gonzales should call off the investigation. Better yet, Mr. Gonzales ought to fulfill his own oath of office and appoint a special counsel to determine whether federal laws were violated."

-snip-

For the entire comment, click:ACLU Slams DOJ Investigation of NSA Whistleblower


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 05:24 PM

Go play with yourself, Old Guy. You are an expert at twisting. I am sure Martin can use your skills at keeping things crooked.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 05:34 PM

"Natinal Security Agency
Rasmussen Reports. Sign up now for ElectionEdge 2006. The most comprehensive
public opinion coverage ever provided for ...
www.rasmussenreports.com/2005/NSA.htm"

I wish the NATINAL Security Agency would spell its name correctly on the Google Address. It would make me think less about snake oil and more about the poll results.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 05:43 PM

From the site Old Guy posted:

"Election Polls 2008

Virginia: Warner leads Allen in Presidential Match-up

Republicans: Giuliani 26% Rice 24% McCain 21%

Democrats: Clinton 43% Gore 14%"

Yep, those folks at that there polling place sure do pay attention to detail.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 05:52 PM

We are already talking about that pussy, Bush.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 05:59 PM

LOLOLOL


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 06:05 PM

Hilarious! That's what it's going to take.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 06:43 PM

Peace:

I think you were sent here by some rightwing organization to make the lefties look stupid.

You are doing a great job. Keep up the good work.

More facts to make left wingers scream with pain and wail even louder. All they want to hear is bad news to go along with their infantile whining and crying:

December 28, 2005--Sixty-four percent (64%) of Americans believe the National Security Agency (NSA) should be allowed to intercept telephone conversations between terrorism suspects in other countries and people living in the United States and 23% disagree.


The Rasmussen Consumer Index gained another point on Friday to 116.8. The Index, which measures the economic confidence of American consumers on a daily basis, is up seven points over the last month.


Looking ahead to the new year, 47% of workers expect their job prospects will be better in 2006 than in 2005. A national Hudson survey also found that 3-out-of-5 workers expect to earn more next year than they did this past year.


Friday December 30, 2005--Forty-eight (48%) of American adults approve of the way George W. Bush is performing his role as President, up from 40% on October 28. He earns approval from 80% of Republicans, 22% of Democrats, and 40% of those not affiliated with either major political party.



December 21, 2005-- Fifty percent (50%) of Americans now believe that the U.S. and its allies are winning the War on Terror. That's up from 44% immediately preceding the speech. It's also the highest level of confidence in more than a year.
Just 25% of Americans believe the terrorists are winning.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 06:45 PM

Doesn't matter how loudly you yell or how big you print stuff, you still don't have too much worthwhile to say.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 07:01 PM

And he never did.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 07:12 PM

Old Guy:

Since you didn't have the courtesy to print your big black statistics with a source, I'm gonna guess they come from Fox or some comparably righteous and objective and fair reporting source.

Or did Martin send them to you in a love note?

One of the reasons I run the "Bush Administration" thread is to bring together the observations others make about the Bush administration; I always cite where I am getting the report from and who the author is. That's just a courtesy to folks who can then decide for themselves.

I would recommend the practice as a step up from the ad hominem skunk-barbecue style discussion you seem to favor.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 07:59 PM

"Rasmussen: National Security Agency (64% Support)
December 28, 2005--Sixty-four percent (64%) of Americans believe the National
Security Agency (NSA) should be allowed to intercept telephone conversations ...
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1548048/posts - 42k - 28 Dec 2005 - Cached - Similar pages"

That's his 'source'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 08:08 PM

"The president received the results he wanted. His approval ratings rose eight percentage points in the latest Washington Post-ABC News poll, to 47 percent."

I am amazed that 47% is satisfactory as support for a President in wartime. Bloody shameful is what it is.

From here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 08:11 PM

By the way, Old Guy,

At one time, a whole lot of people thought the world was flat!

Some people still think so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 08:22 PM

Danged hard to get any sleep 'round here with all these people screamin'....

But according to the Page County Polling Agency:

78% of those polled think Bush sucks

83% of those polled think Bush should be impeached

85% of those polled think that Bush is doing a crappy job

91% of those polled think that Bush still sneaks drinks on the side

94% of those polled think that Bush is a liar

97% of those polled think that Bush will go down as the country's worst president...

Hmmmmmm???

(Source: The Page County Polling Agency)

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 08:24 PM

Bloody shameful is what it is

No, what's shameful is that as near as dammit to 50% of the population of the Good Ol'U.S. of A. still appear to support this asshole- in the face of overwhelming evidence that he IS an asshole, and a dangerous one into the bargain.

Shameful AND scary.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 08:24 PM

Peace:

I stated the source. Are you proned to lie like this about things and then claim they are the truth?

Even though Fox is the number one cable news network, I do not use Fox as a source because all the left wing anarchist start attacking information from Fox as soon as as they hear the name.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 08:27 PM

I never said you didn't state a source. Amos said that. Do you ever read anything? At all? Sheesh, what a twit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 08:29 PM

BTW you suave smooth-talker. You address way too many posts to me. Please return to consideration of your belly button.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 08:32 PM

And another btw. Don't give yourself a coronary over the likes of George Bush. He just ain't worth it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 09:30 PM

Peace:

You said   "www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1548048/posts - 42k - 28 Dec 2005 - Cached - Similar pages"

That's his 'source'."

That is not my source, You lied.

Amos: http://www.rasmussenreports.com is my source but don't visit because the facts there do not support your upside down vision of the world. You can't turn anyone into a fellow anarchist with those numbers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 09:57 PM

Dear me, you are repeating yourself. Even despite people correcting your misinformation. Is this something they train you in at the RNC Indoc Center? Or just a shared case of Alzheimer's between you and w? I don't think you understand what you are saying, in fact. Either of you.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 10:03 PM

The Rasmussen firm seems jolly proud of their work, and perhaps they deserve to be, but I notice that they are promoting a high percentage of Americans believing that the country is not in a recession; while the long-term government bond just crossed and went below the short-term bond in a rare inversion which seems to contradict their optimism. But I do hope they are right.

Are they connected with the Diebold people, by any chance?


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 10:03 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace - PM
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 07:59 PM

"Rasmussen: National Security Agency (64% Support)
December 28, 2005--Sixty-four percent (64%) of Americans believe the National
Security Agency (NSA) should be allowed to intercept telephone conversations ...
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1548048/posts - 42k - 28 Dec 2005 - Cached - Similar pages"

That's his 'source'."


OK, I'm gonna try this reaaaalllllll slow. This is what I said is your source. Got it yet? Notice the name Rasmussen: National Security Agency at the top? Now, put down the bottle and let us help you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 10:28 PM

Troll--

"We can either stay and tough it out or release Saddam, pull our troops out, and slink home".

How have you gone wrong? Let me count the ways.

1) Nobody is in favor of releasing Saddam--so you have, in best Bushite fashion, posited a false choice.   Well done. Good job.

My suggestion would be to release Saddam---to the Kurds. They'll know what to do with him.


2) It should be obvious, even to you, that in fact the Iraqis do NOT want us in Iraq. The only question is when they will tell us to leave. The corollary question is if Iraq will have separated into 3 states de facto by the time we are asked to leave.

3) In fact, the whole question is out of our hands now. Bush is not exactly famous for subtle influencing of another country's internal politics. He leans more, to, shall we say, the sledgehammer approach---and that won't play in Iraq.

If the Sunnis don't feel part of whatever government is established, the game is up. And Bush will have squandered all the lost lives and funds---for absolutely nothing. It that happens, the only thing the US will be left with is a de facto Kurdistan-- at the cost of alienating Turkey bigtime.

And, of course, a likely Iran-leaning Shia state in the south.


And chaos in the middle.


We'll see what happens.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: dianavan
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 11:12 PM

You are right, Ron, at least thats the way I see it, too.

Iraq will be divided into three territories and the U.S. will have to stay to protect the Kurds from the Sunnis in the middle. Southern Iraq will become part of Iran.

The big question is will the U.S. accept oil as payment for helping the Kurds to create a separate homeland in Turkey as well?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 11:20 PM

Peace you are going to have to try again even Slower.

My source was rassmuaaen.com not freerepublic.com within the quotes.

Now you are even lying about the lie.

Need some help from sonny boy?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 11:24 PM

Oh, the scathing wit. Ya twit. It's the same shit. And trust me, it's shit. I quoted the 2008 stuff because you seem to have neglected to, kid. Do your homework. And isn't it past your bedtime?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 31 Dec 05 - 12:03 AM

Boys, back to your corners until the bell. Ya hear me? LOL!

Very polished pollster site, OG. Smells off to me, just a bit, but maybe that's just the suit world.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 31 Dec 05 - 12:35 AM

So now I have to post what Peace wants me to post or he calls me names.

He can post what he wants and I will post what I want. You can try to equate a website "vote" to a national poll if you. It does nothing for your credibility.

Why does he bring up www.freerepublic.com/ and then right under it say That's his 'source'" If that is what he meant he should retract his statement.

Instead he calls me a twit. I think he has painted himself into a corner


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 31 Dec 05 - 12:36 AM

LOL

You open yer mouth to change feet.

Before I forget: Happy New Year to you, ya old fart.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 31 Dec 05 - 03:19 PM

Well, Old Guy--notice you had nothing to say in response to my post

Silence consents.

Don't be shy--you can stand in for Troll.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 31 Dec 05 - 04:06 PM

Happy New Year to all you merry maniacal combatants.   It's CHristmas in the Trenches all over again for the good ole Land of th' Free. Hey, Jerry!! Can I read your mail??

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 31 Dec 05 - 04:16 PM

Some remarks from a correspondent:

"
> I believe that it was John Kenneth Galbraith who observed, given that
> 1/4 of the American populace continued to support Richard Nixon after
> he resigned in disgrace over the Watergate coverup, that you could
> persuade 25% of Americans to believe ANYTHING.

A fellow going by the Nyme ShadowThief once wrote:

"Bush could beat a sweet little old lady to death with a bag full of
cute puppies and STILL get 45% of the American people to approve of him.
Reality just does not affect that 45%." -- Shadowthief

A fellow nymed Patmaniac wrote:

"If you believe in the creation of the Universe in 6 days, Adam and Eve,
talking serpents, a man being swallowed by a fish and emerging unharmed
to tell the tale, a trumpet knocking down the walls of Jericho,
Commandments chiseled into stone tablets by a burning bush, an old man
collecting 2 of every animal on earth onto one boat, virgin birth,
walking on water, 900 year old people, raising people from the dead
after their bodies have begun rotting, etc... If you can believe all of
those ridiculous fairy tales, then I guess it isn't such a stretch that
you might also believe that George Bush is a good President". --


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 31 Dec 05 - 05:31 PM

I wear Depends and they are great. Keep the old pecker warm and toasty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Dec 05 - 07:12 PM

Hmmmmmm??? Seems that all Bush wants to do on his vacations is cut brush??? What is it with brush cuttin'??? Reagan was into that brush cuttin' as well.... Ahhhhh, I'm thinking that Bush the Brush Cutter spent maybe 10 photo-op minutes cuttin' brush.... Okay, maybe 20 minutes...

Now does this make Bush a liar??? Well, nah, not really... I don't think there is any scientific evidence that brush cutttin' makes folks lie so in Bush's case...

... must be somethin' other than brush cuttin'...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,Alphabet
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 01:04 AM

Bush wears a brushcut?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 02:07 AM

RD you have never answered any of my posts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 08:05 AM

To the courageous thing that calls itself "Martin Gibson" but somehow has never managed to sign a real name to any of its bons mots, yet somehow complains about others' courage--


I understand your charm school has fallen on hard times. Hope 2006 is better.

How's life in the gutter?--must be lonely there.

Please keep up your sterling representation of Mr. Bush. You are truly the quintessential Bush voter. It's important that everybody see just how brilliant Bush supporters are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 08:08 AM

Old Guy--

Well, is my picture of the Iraq political situation accurate or not--and if not, why not?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,Tam the man
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 08:08 AM

Of Course he lied he's involved with politics, mind you they all lie or else they won't get the job no matter who they are, these people that do that as a job


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 08:15 AM

Maybe you'd like to axpound on the lies that Jimmie Carter told...

(But, Bobert, that was before you had to lie to be a politican...)

Nevermind that one then... How about Virginia's Governor Mark Warner???


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 08:20 AM

Dianavan--

Any Shia state in the south of Iraq will not become part of Iran--that's vastly overstating the case. But it may well be sympathetic to Iran on certain issues.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,Mullah Bob
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 11:44 AM

Ron Davies:

What are your wishes for Iraq?

Do you want the Amercan effort to have a democracy in Iraq to fail?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 12:13 PM

Mullah Bob (wonder whose pseudonym that is) --Obviously everybody hopes things will come out all right in Iraq.

Since you obviously know everything already, there's no point in trying to teach you anything. Sorry you don't like to hear facts--why don't you go back to watching Fox and "Lost"? I'm afraid anything else would be too demanding for you. Whatever you do, don't read the Wall St Journal, the source of my information.

But, if by some chance you do have better information than mine, please be sure to share it----with exact quotes and source.

It may have also escaped your attention that in fact I have made no defiinite predictions---just pointed out that the entire Iraq situation depends on whether the Sunnis feel included in any future government or not.

If you think I'm incorrect, I'd like to hear your argument--as distinguished from innuendo and stupid slander--which I've seen is your strong suit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 06:23 PM

"RD you have never answered any of my posts."

OG, you have never answered any of anybody's posts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 08:16 PM

Hey, I would love nothing more than for Iraq to become nice little peace-loving democracy...

Problem is that it ain't gonna happen... Actually, during ter mad-dash-to-war there were a lot of folks saying that if the US invaded Iraq that a civil war would insue....

Hate to say, "We told you so" but....

...we did...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 08:18 PM

I recall some idiot telling us that the US would have its troops out of Iraq by Christmas--Christmas of 2004, BTW. So, how are the troop withdrawal plans comin' along?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,G
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 07:42 AM

Was that "idiot" named Durbin, Schumer, Murtha or Kennedy?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 09:03 AM

Sorry, no lies told by any of the following:
George W. Bush
Dick Cheney
Donald Rumsfeld
Colin Powell
Condie Rice
Dr. Hans Blix
Mohamed Al Baredei
Tony Blair
et al

For a guy like Amos to come up and say that he knew from day one, when the likes of Blix and Al Baredei (both of whom had been closely involved for over a decade) could not, then one would have to decide:
- Whether Amos had better detailed information than the various UN appointed officials, various heads of state and intelligence agencies.

Or,

- That the person who decided to act was a certain George W. Bush, and that it is just in Amos's nature to state that if GWB says its white, Amos will automatically call him a liar and state that it is black. Unless any of you hadn't noticed, GWB could solve the problems of the entire world and Amos would still find fault with it.

Amos your views are narrow-minded, unbalanced and completely bigotted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 09:30 AM

Yeah, Amos, how dare you now bring up the fact that toward the end of the mad-dash-to-invade, Hans Blix, representing the inpection team in Iraq, reported to the United Nations that things were going well, the Iraqi's were in full cooperation, that he could inspect whatever he wanted and theat the inspection teams was settling into their new offices rather well...

Yes, how "narrow minded"...

You should have had the very expanded view that Bush had from ignoring the dissenting opinions in his daily intellegence reports, by ignoring Hans Blix, by ignoring world leaders and by ignoring the tens of millions of folks who were in the streetes in just about every developed country asking Bush to "re" think as decision that he made even before 9/11...

Yes, how "narrow minded" of you, indeed, Amos...

Not!!!

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 03:28 PM

Guest:

I dunno whether you are twisting and altering my statements intentionally or accidentally. Maybe you just feel kinda brutish and nasrt today. But what I said was that I and many others here found the arguments during the rush to war inadequate and full of logical flaws and said so. We asserted that Bush either had inside superior information OR he was badly misinterpreting the information he claimed was his basis for invasion. A third alternative may also have been mentioned -- namely that he was working for other purposes than he said, which is a suspicion often voiced by his critics. In any case my argument is that if simple citizens like ourselves could see through his miasma of illogic, why couldn't you? And why couldn't he see more clearly? How come HE was "fooled by poor intelligence" when so many of his citizens were not? You don't have to take my word for it -- you could look it up.

It was obvious then, and it is obvious now, that his decision was informed by other than the things he laid it to... Whether those things were graft, insider power trades, political hanky-panky, colossal short-sightedness, or just blundering weak-mindedness, I can't say.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 07:38 PM

The GUEST's are getting unusally craky, Amos... I've had to lob one of them off as someone who one can have any kind of intellegent discussion with... The others seems to be not far behind...Tell you what, in the past I have fough like Heck every time that someone would suggest making folks register to post but given the current crop, hmmmmmmmm? They are about as bad aas Mudcat has ever had... Not only are they Bushites but they are from way down in the shallow end of the gene pool... Real bottom feeders...

I mean, even Old Guy, who used to be somewhat rep0sectfull of others opinions has become another Martin Gibson...

Go figure???

Guess it's because deep down they know they are wrong but too pridefull or ignorant to admit it???

I don't know...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 07:41 PM

"Was that "idiot" named Durbin, Schumer, Murtha or Kennedy?"

The idiot to whom I made reference was someone on the Mudcat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 11:39 PM

Very interesting nobody--including "Mullah Bob"--or any other Bushite--- is contradicting my summation of the Iraq situation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 07:52 AM

'cause they can't, Ron. Yer right and...

100!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 09:48 AM

Ron's summation of the Iraq situation is exactly that - Ron's opinion, as usual delivered without any stated logic or reason for that opinion. As such it requires comment, detailed or not, from no-one, it is just someone stating their opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 11:26 AM

Actually, I think Ron described the high-level situation quite accurately.

So I think your condescension and disdain is just more hot air, and unwarranted.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 11:28 AM

Thank you Amos, in future I must remember to consult you as to when, where and in what terms I can state my own opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 11:34 AM

Well, feel free, if you want; but note I did not say your opinion was unwelcome, just the condescension and disdain you added to it.

After all, I was simply offering a counter-opinion! :)


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 12:43 PM

'the reason we keep linking Al Qaeda Iraq and 9/11 is because there is a link' George W. Bush

and when Cheney (who said the insurgency was in its death throes last January) says 'we dont need a permission slip from the UN to go to war'
and gets applause from Republican audiences, no one mentions the logical conclusion of that statement, namely that 'other countries dont need one either'.

And that is exactly what a Russian General announced after last years Beslan massacre. That Russia reserves the right to attack terrorists anywhere in the world, with out warning or permission from the UN.

what it all really means is that we are moving back to the 19th century system of alliances, and might is right. We all know what this led to in 1914 and 45. Whatever you might say about the UN is it served its main purpose very well. Its only purpose was to prevent world war 3 and it did that very successfully for 60 years.
And George Bush's legacy may be in the end to destroy UN and the order that existed over the last half century or so.
and its not about terrorism, and its not even about oil. Its about a
power grab, to try to establish Pax Americana.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 12:54 PM

...a phrase in which the term "Pax", like its Roman role-model is based on the rather barbarous use of force rather than on the free election of preferable ideas. This is the sort of faux-PR which Rove specializes in.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,Mullah Bob
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 02:27 PM

RD you ae full of shit about Iraq.

AFter a civil war, it will be divided into three countries, Shitistan, Sunnustan and Kurdistan. Eventurlly Turkey will inhale Kurdistan. Syria will annex Sunnistan and Iraq will take over Shitistan.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 03:19 PM

Mullah:

You are full of Shiite about Iraq....

;>)


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 08:49 PM

But entertaining, you must admit, Amos...

And actually, he may not be far off the mark, other than maybe a couple names... This maybe what the future will bring after the civil war, which will heat up when the US leaves in about 10 years after suffering it's 37,000 US military battlefield death...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 12:03 AM

Sorry "Mullah Bob" (AKA Old Guy?)--

It doesn't seem you expect your reply to be taken seriously. Accordingly, I won't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 10:15 PM

Unfortunately, Ron's analysis of the situation ignores some fairly significant pointers that indicate a future far different to the one he predicts.

The assumption is that Iraq will split into three independent states, so far there are no grounds whatsoever upon which to base that assumption. The insurgents in Iraq have consistantly failed to halt the political process or instigate "civil war". The reluctance of the majority of Iraqi's to follow the insurgent line indicates that there is a general realisation that the country is far better off if it remains intact.

The Sunni minority of Iraq and Iran have more to fear from the emergence of separate states - not the other way about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 10:24 PM

Don'ty matter too much any way it goes, T...

The Sunnis are in serious trouble....

Just at the corportists in the US would be if the US wasn'r a super power and some other country came over and broke up their ball game...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 10:34 PM

If what is happening in Iraq was happening anywhere else in the world, wouldn't we be calling it "civil war"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Madeleine
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 10:45 PM

george w is a liar, thief, mental defective due to alcoholism, punk.

the usa was a mess before truman and has gone to hell in a handbasket at the speed of light.

i wish i could move out of here but artist's don't have any money. if you think it's bad in great britain, you should pay us a visit. there's no middle class, just the 1% with billions and the rest of us who can't even pay for health insurance. we send expired aids medication to africa and congratulate ourselves, when at the same time, millions here have to choose between groceries and medication.

is there a place where most people don't complain?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: number 6
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 10:46 PM

Canada.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 11:04 PM

Uh, Teribus--you continue the Bushite tradition of careful reading (not).

I never said that Iraq would separate into 3 states.

If you read what I did say, you may possibly see that I said this will likely happen IF THE SUNNIS DON'T FEEL THEY ARE PART OF ANY GOVERNMENT ESTABLISHED.

Any argument there?

At this point, we don't know the Sunnis' views on that question--and they may well hinge on the other groups' willingness to accept pro-Sunni amendments to the constitution, which we also don't know at this point.

Please try to read a little more carefully.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,G
Date: 05 Jan 06 - 07:47 AM

Madeline, it must be your neighborhood. Most of us in the US are not complaining. Not completely satisfied but not enough reason to contemplate moving away. There are choices. And altough I love the place, Canada would not be my first choice. Speaking of Canada, who would need more than what Britsh Columbia has to offer, with Vancouver as a base of operations. Scenery, dining, sking, fishing and the ferry rides to VC Island. Mesmerizing! Anyone here from VC?
(spent a lot trips there, mostly business, and it has been a few years)


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Madeleine
Date: 05 Jan 06 - 05:21 PM

re: canada

i've lived in nova scotia, ontario and monreal and loved it. canada and canadians (canadiens) are great. winters are a bit harsh, though. 40 degrees below is bizzare. never went to the west coast but would love to.

ps. oh, mr. guest - you're right about my neighborhood; we all hate the bush dynasty, like and respect eachother. chapel hill is referred to as "a little piece of heaven." check it out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 05:31 AM

Well, Teribus, "Old Guy"--in any of your many incarnations, BB, one of our courageous "Guests" or any other of Bush's deep thinkers--

Come on, tell me why I'm wrong that the single most important factor in Iraq right now by far is whether the Sunnis feel part of any government established.


You haven't been shy so far.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,G
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 12:39 PM

Madeline, by "neighborhood, I was infering to your own position in life. The next time you go to Canada, check out Vancouver. It rarely snows there. The Japanese current keeps it warm.

Also, try Boston. A report just out says that 1 out of 20 households are classified as millionaire status now. With this crummy economy and everything else going to hell in a handbasket, how did that happen?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Madeleine
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 08:29 AM

good morning mr g guest,

part of the 1% of the gazillionaires live there ( also a lot of old money, thanks to king george). i understand that the 1 % supports our economy and appreciate that without it we'd be worse of as a capitalistic government. but having worked half my life with people who have nothing and no voice, i know there must be a better set up, but i'm not qualified nor knowledgable enough to know what that would be.

when public health systems became privatized around 15 years ago, our health system and health coverage became unattainable for half the population.

i also lived in boston. it's too stratified for me, though a paradise for thinkers. i had to live with 8 other people in an apartment. that doesn't include the cat-sized roaches.

by the way, g, excuse my impertinence; what is your occupation other than musician? i was a nurse practioner with a fat salary before i bailed out. the world is very different for those whose incomes are $70,000 and $20,000 +/- . i've made the awful adjustment but have no health insurance, had to sell my house and car and all of the antiques my ex-husband left me. i don't miss any of it. just hope i don't get too sick. if you're interested in the real scene taking place in hospitals and clinics let me know. i'm sure you're aware that it's documented that 100,000 people die by error or incompetence in hospitals annually. i can tell you from experience that those numbers are an understatemnt. blah, blah, blah.........don't get me started. i'm sorry about the tirade. think i'll go play the fiddle awhile and get my blood pressure down.

regards

madeleine


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,G
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 08:51 AM

Madeline, relax, take a deep breath and let it outslowly. You will need that as I am about to tell you that I love fiddle players!

Regards,

G

Ps I do understand some things as I went from semi-wealthy to getting by. However, (I seem to like that word) my getting there and then going down can only be credited to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,G
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 08:54 AM

......and some indicators I neglected to pay attention to. And I see where the spelling is 'Madeleine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Madeleine
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 08:56 AM

amen, friend

madeleine


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Madeleine
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 08:56 AM

hi g,

it's french.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 09:18 AM

I'm not exactly clear on whether it should be "Bush the Liar", "Bush the Clueless", or "Bush the Duplicitous"--for refusing to consider anything that might possibly contradict his pre-decided course--specifically in refusing to consider any evidence that might shake his determination to invade Iraq, while handing the US public information that did support his view.   (Information which he eventually had to admit was faulty--and which he could have questioned at the time, but chose not to do so).

But, after all, this is a delightful title for a thread--so let's give it a little more time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 11:23 AM

guest old guy - are you somebody else that we know as somebody else.

all these people with two names - sometimes it feels Mudcat is just me and another bloke in Hong Kong.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,Bush the whipping boy
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 11:33 AM

While Americans prosper like never before, I get blamed for everything that went wrong during the Cliton administration.

The one way weasles here are secretly breathing a sigh of relief that Gore did not win.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Madeleine
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 02:56 PM

mr. bush,

now, you know the rules about lying. pull down your pants to get a heinie spanking. you may even like it by now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 03:05 PM

Sheesh. Usually I have to pay for that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Arne
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 08:46 PM

Guest:

Sorry, no lies told by any of the following:

George W. Bush

Here:
The larger point is, and the fundamental question is, did Saddam Hussein have a weapons program? And the answer is, absolutely. And we gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in. And, therefore, after a reasonable request, we decided to remove him from power....

-- G. Dubya "The Incompetent" Bush, July 14th, 2003(!!!)

Either an outrageous and obvious lie, or the guy is in desperate need of a massive dose of Haldol (and an invocation of the 25th AMendment).

Of course, there's many more whoppers told by Dubya as well.

And then, there's just simple stoopidity:

"Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job!" -- Dubya to his horse judging fellow incompetent Michael Brown

Cheers,


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 08:49 PM

Poll: Dems wanted

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

January 8, 2006

WASHINGTON - Dissatisfied with the nation's direction, Americans are leaning toward a change in which political party leads Congress, preferring that Democrats take control, an AP-Ipsos poll found. Democrats are favored over Republicans 49 percent to 36 percent.

In the Senate, 33 seats will be on the ballot in November, 17 of them Democratic, 15 Republican, and one Independent. Democrats need at least six seats to gain a majority. In the House, Democrats need to gain at least 15 seats to become the majority party.

So far, about a third of the public, 34 percent, approves of the job Congress is doing, while 63 percent disapprove.

Meanwhile, President George W. Bush's job approval is at 40 percent, with only one-third saying the country is headed in the right direction, according to the poll of 1,001 adults taken Jan. 3-5. The margin of error was plus or minus 3 percentage points.





On the good ship, Lollypop . . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 08:53 PM

I expect that real soon people will begin to 'distance' themselves from the President. If the elections actually reflect the present 'will' of the American people as represented by the above poll results, Bush will become a brief footnoe on the world stage, the kinda "OOOPS, how did THAT ever happen mistake" that folks can hide away and deny association with: "No, son, I didn't vote for him. Don't actually know anyone who did."


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 09:17 PM

AT LAST!

Six years of misery. Coming to a close. SOON.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 09:22 PM

So, anyone taking bets he tries a coup d'etat? Maybe stage an incident and mobilized the system to contain things? Thos things including the American people?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 10:31 PM

Remember 9-11!! You HAVE to make me king so I can PROTECT you!!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 01:44 AM

What misery? Bobert said "life is Good"

Will you protect us Amos? How?

If Amos ruled the world
Every day would be the first day of spring
Every heart would have a new song to sing
And we sing of the joy every morning would bring

If Amos ruled the world
Every man would be as free as a bird
Every voice should be a voice to be heard
Take my word
We would treasure each day that occurred

My world would be a beautiful place,
Where we would weave such wonderful dreams
My world would wear a smile on its face
Like the man in the moon has when the moon beams

If Amos ruled the world
Every man would say the world was my friend
There'd be happiness that no man could end

No my friend
Not if Amos ruled the world.
Every head would be held up high
There'd be sunshine in everyone's sky
If the day ever dawned when I ruled the world


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 08:00 AM

My vote goes to Amos...

One thing fir sure, the US wouldn't be strapped with such evil policies and wars, if Amos ruled the world...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 09:45 AM

Arne 08 Jan 06 - 08:46 PM

"The larger point is, and the fundamental question is, did Saddam Hussein have a weapons program? And the answer is, absolutely. And we gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in. And, therefore, after a reasonable request, we decided to remove him from power....

-- G. Dubya "The Incompetent" Bush, July 14th, 2003(!!!)"

What "outrageous and obvious lie" has been told?

Before you answer take a look at:
- What Saddam and his regime agreed to comply with at Safwan and what then transpired.
- The UN "niceties" that have to be observed.
- Please cite the occasions between December 1998 and June 2002 when Iraq invited the return of the UNSCOM/UNMOVIC inspection teams and the resumption of supervision and verification of Iraq's disarmament in accordance with outstanding UN Security Council Resolutions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 09:48 AM

Geeze Louise!

Just to be clear, I wasn't running for kinghood. I was parodying the broke-dick mammalucca who has openly allowed that he would like to be a dictator, just jokingly of course.

But anyway, thanks for the song, Guest, and the vote, Bobert. Nice doggerel!

I didn't know kings needed votes....hmmmmmmmmmm.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,Old guy
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 09:59 AM

RD still won't answer me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 10:00 AM

"Earlier today I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors. While other countries also have weapons of mass destruction, Hussein is in a different category because he has used such weapons against his own people and against his neighbors."


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Amos
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 10:14 AM

Table of Lies from Bush&Co


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 10:28 AM

"Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,Old guy - PM
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 09:59 AM

RD still won't answer me."

Maybe he thinks it's a waste of time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 12:24 PM

Why is it that Peace has never been bitten by a rattlesnake?

Who said "Earlier today I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors. While other countries also have weapons of mass destruction, Hussein is in a different category because he has used such weapons against his own people and against his neighbors."


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,G
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 12:57 PM

Apparently you are refering to WJC and one of his "wag the dog" scenarios.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: GUEST,RE;NOT JUST A LIAR
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 01:03 PM

He's a presidentual theif as well: I bet dollars to donuts that if the REAL truth be known Al Gore would be president.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush the Liar.
From: Arne
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 04:22 PM

Teribus denies that the sun is hot:

What "outrageous and obvious lie" has been told?

Posted above. Vebatim. And with a link to the White House web page so you can't deny the authenticity (unless, perhaps, you'd think the White House might be filled with liars....).

Before you answer take a look at:

- What Saddam and his regime agreed to comply with at Safwan and what then transpired.

WTF does that have to do with the price of tea in Sri Lanka?

- The UN "niceties" that have to be observed.

Ditto last comment.

- Please cite the occasions between December 1998 and June 2002 when Iraq invited the return of the UNSCOM/UNMOVIC inspection teams and the resumption of supervision and verification of Iraq's disarmament in accordance with outstanding UN Security Council Resolutions.

Hate to have to point out the obvious to the disingenuous, but Dubya The Liar didn't say:

"[W]e gave [Saddam] a chance to allow the inspectors in between December 1998 and June 2002, and he wouldn't invite them in." So then, Senor Quixote, when you've decided you've finished your tilting at the windmills of your mind, and are now ready to joust on the plain of actual discussion of facts, maybe we can talk about how your apologetics for Dubya's f***ups makes Clinton's "depends on what the meaining of 'is' is" look like a model of clarity and forthrightness (not to mention, what Clinton said was in fact technically accurate and at least should have been helpful to his questioners, who were at least put on guard as to whether "was" or "is" may have been better suited to the question proffered).

Dubya said "he [Saddam] wouldn't let them [the inspectors] in". That is false. Saddam did let the inspectors in. No other way to put it, Teribus.

Cheers,


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