BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?

Subject: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: GUEST,Z-Z
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 11:22 AM

Hi all.

I have just written my first song. I think it might be quite good. However, if I show it/ sing it to my friends and family they will be embarassed and won't know what to say. So how do I know if it's any good ?

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 11:27 AM

Sing it, unattributed, at an Open Mike?

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: *daylia*
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 11:28 AM

How about playing it for them first and telling them who wrote it sometime down the road, if you want to?

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 11:37 AM

Agree with Daylia...ask them to listen to a song that you are thinking of performing publically and ....will they please make comments/criticise or whatever. Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 11:38 AM

You could post it here,ZZ.

You may get some suggestions.

Good luck,
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: MMario
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 11:40 AM

if you post it here you are *bound* to get some suggestions - some of them may even be useful!

When you say "wrote a song" - lyrics, music, both?

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: GUEST,Natalia
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 11:56 AM

OK, I am going to copy zz here. This was inspired by "Poop in a jar", which I read in another thread. What do my fellow mudcatters think ?

Silver box of memories

I've got a silver box of memories
Choc-a-block with mementos of you and me
Wedding photos, romantic notes you sent to tease
And lots of lovely things you brought me just to please

Now she's got a golden box of memories                              
I sneaked a look inside and guess what I did see                     
Photos of December, hey in December weren't you with me?
Well that's a rotten thing to do, don't you agree ?

I wrapped some thoughts of yours and placed them with my memories
That box began to stink and I began to see
Honey, that ain't no way to thank me for all these years
But now my mind is clear, and I am finally free.

For your future little box of memories
I hope that money for you, it grows on trees
As for loving; curse or blessing, I am not sure;
I hope you get what you deserve, no less, no more

I had to throw away that box of memories
Cos it was smelling of your negativity
Now my smile it shines, my time is mine, my love's for me
And if I get what I deserve I'll be happy

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 11:59 AM

Play it in public...

IF people you don't know ask you to play it a 7th or 8th time, then you MIGHT have a 'good' song...

I hope it sings better than it reads

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Janie
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 12:05 PM

This thread t'ain't BS. Could a kind clone move it above the line where it deserves to be:>)

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 12:32 PM

If you don't get the response you want when you sing the song, don't be discouraged. Us songwriters could start a thread with lyrics to the first song we wrote, and then crawl under tyhe table.

My first song, by the way was a doo-wop song, Foam Rubber Dice..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 01:31 PM

My first song was about a lass dying of cancer and the Folk Club (because I am a joker) laughed all the way through.

With the distance of a few weeks I see how they came to that. But it hurt.

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: GUEST,Bess
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 02:27 PM

Mr Red,

I don't know if you meant that message to be funny, but it made me laugh !

Maybe it was the way you delivered it. Try it again, but tell them it's sad first !??!

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Bert
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 03:59 PM

I get that all the time Mr. Red. People are so used to me singing funny songs that they laugh at anything I sing.

Natalie, that could be a good song, but it would depend a lot on the delivery. Get out there and sing it as though it is the best song in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: GUEST,Natalie
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 04:48 PM

Thanks Bert. I had a Dolly Parton style, swing of the bust type delivery in mind, with lots of emphasis on the eeeeees ( memorieeeeeeesss / happpeeee ).

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 04:53 PM

My early songs were mostly pretty maudlin and overwrought. But they were a step on the way.

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Amos
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 04:58 PM

On the way to becoming more maudlin and overwrought?

;>)

(Just tweakin' ya, buddy.)


A

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 05:07 PM

I think it has some pretty sentiments and wants to be more of a love song or unrequited love song and not a smelly song..I would remove the references to smells..just change the words a bit....you would have nostalgia, regrets, without the stink factor..which at least in me brought up unpleasant thoughts.... mg

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 06:30 PM

Speaking of Dolly Parton in connection with this reminds me that my first thought in reading the lyrics was of her own great song- not sure of the actual title, but about 'Just a few old memories'.

I'd make sure, I think, that my delivery - and voice - didn't mimic hers. Just a thought.

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 08:09 PM

You know it's a good song when it's sung back to you years later as a "traditional song."

Sometimes that process doesn't take very long.

Sometimes the return time is infinite...

Cheerily,
Charley Noble, staring into the infinite

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: khandu
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 09:36 PM

Z-Z, your lyrics top my first composition, a dramatic story-song played ina dramatic E minor with the dramatic opening:

"Perhaps it would have been better had he died at birth
Never seen the sunshine, never walked on earth"....

I was quite proud of it, however, I never succeeded in playing it all the way through. No one endured the whole song.

Of course the melody, chords, etc., all effect one's opinion as to whether a song is "good". Look at some of the lyrically stupid songs that have "made" it.

Keep writing, if that's what you desire...keep writing and then write more!

ken

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: David C. Carter
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 07:11 AM

I have found that writing a song, is one thing,performing it in public is another.What one sets out to do is not always what one ends up with.If you set out to say something particular in a song,you want to make a point etc,then, do you think you achieved it.I never really know which way a song is going to unwind.Some songs seem to almost write themselves.Others need a little coaxing, even then, how you going to know if it's good or not.You sing a song one night,do it again the next evening and the reaction is not the same.Leave out the Dolly Parton thing,she exists already.You got to find your own voice,delivery etc.Easier said than done though.Time and perseverance will get you there,maybe.Record yourself,see what your song sounds like,your voice,the phrasing,is this the best way to do it & company.I Wish you all the very best.
David

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 07:23 AM

As has been pointed out, this is definitely a great music thread, not BS,--and needs to be above the line.

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 07:28 AM

Your first songs don't HAVE to be good - in fact, as a starving young song writer, it's probably better for your health if they aren't. Then at least you will be able to survive on the fruit and veges thrown at you, if you cook them straight away.

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 07:30 AM

If you have heard enough of other folks stuff that is thought to be good, you'll know...

And song writing is evolutionary so even if it isn't the greatest song ever written, but you feel comfy singing it, it is *important* that you sing it... A couple years ago I came across a reel to reel tape of about a dozen of my first songs that were roughly recorded back in the 60's... Tell you the trythm I could barely remember many of them but abouty half of them I'd say were good for their time... The other, well, not all that good... But it was part og my growth as a song writer and every song writer has lots of songs that weren't all that good but it doesn't change the fact that in order to get better those songs had to be sung as well...

So don't be afraid to sing the song... Not only is it part of you but part of your development..

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 07:31 AM

There - that's pushed it back below the line!

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 07:34 AM

Oops! Sorry Bobert - wasn't referring to you!

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 01:34 PM

Well George Bernard Shaw said it and he doubtless not the first

The Golden Rule is that there are no Golden Rules.

The real problem is that audiences don't know that - and adverse comments loom greater than the quiet acceptance of your points of view.

If you have been singing publicly for long enough then the presentation will be half the battle. If not - remember that people react to the whole - not the pretty tune, the clever paronamasia etc. They also react to the meal they just had, so only time and a large enough sample will really tell you.

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Tootler
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 04:04 PM

If you get a chance to perform it, go for it.

If you get a request for the words, you know at least one person has enjoyed it.

I don't write songs, but I do write tunes and I feel quite pleased when either, I get a couple of requests for the dots or when someone says something like "We play that at home".

If you can marry your words to a good melody, you have a good chance someone will like it.

Good luck.

Geoff

PS I agree with those who say this thread should be above the line.

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: autolycus
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 05:35 PM

Only time will tell if it's "good", whatever that means.

Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: M.Ted
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 07:09 PM

Songs are funny, in that some of the best ones look totally off, on paper. Even when you play a song in front of an audience, it is hard to tell how good it is, because performers tend to know how to get the kind of response they want out of an audience, using whatever they happen to have to work with.
Make a recording, and people respond to the superficial aspects of the recording--about the only way to tell is if it is any good is if it other performers have a lot of success with it--maybe not even then.

The trick seems to be that you need to believe in what you've written, regardless of what anyone else thinks, and to keep writing and pushing your stuff---

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 08:29 PM

Same as anything else you write. Show it to people, and find somewhere to perform it, and go from there.

I'm doing that at the moment with choreography, but it doesn't matter if it's a song, a book, or sea cucmber soufle. If it's yours, and it's creative, then keep trying.

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Peace
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 10:04 PM

Don't matter what folks think about it if you want to write. As Ted said above, even bad songs can be 'carried off' on stage. If you want to write, write.

I wrote over three hundred before I got one I wanted to keep. I kept it for all of two months or so and then threw it out. If you are starting to write, then you had better believe that your songs are good. If YOU don't believe that, quit now. Truth is--for writers--everybody's a critic. Write a few hundred and I would really like to know how many you decide to keep. Of the first 500 or so, I may have three or four left that I thought had the merit I wanted them to have. I've also had a few folks say they 'like' this or that. However, if I ain't one of those folks, the song goes.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that YOU have to believe in YOURSELF, because most beginning writers ain't got too many other people who believe in them. Hang tough and hang in.

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Cluin
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 11:42 PM

"This was inspired by "Poop in a jar"..."


Um, I wouldn't intro the song that way on stage, myself.

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Peace
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 11:48 PM

Yeah. That 'p' at the beginning and then another 'p' at the end are sure to make a popping sound if you don't handle the mike all that well yet. Try shit instead.

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: GUEST,Airdrie
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 11:17 AM

It's just as well we are all different cos I love the Poop in a Jar image !

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Peace
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 07:57 PM

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: first songs ..how do I know if good ?
From: Bert
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 08:02 PM

even bad songs can be 'carried off' on stage... Yup, manys the time I've "performed" out an imperfection in a song.