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BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching
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Subject: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Rabbi-Sol Date: 06 May 06 - 10:22 PM Yesterday I needed to change a $100 bill. I went into the local branch of The Bank Of New York, (soon to be J.P. Morgan), where my wife has an account. To my amazement I was told that they would not change it for me unless I personally had an account there. When I inquired why, I was told that the bank must report the social security number of anyone changing a $100 bill to both, the IRS and Homeland Security, according to the provisions of the Patriot Act. Being that they did not have MY social security number or photo ID they could not change the money for me. I then went to the U.S. Post Office where the clerk changed the money for with a smile, no questions asked. As an American citizen since birth, I am outraged by what is taking place today under the guise of National Security. Has anyone else had a similar problem ? SOL ZELLER |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Cluin Date: 06 May 06 - 10:33 PM I'd say "Big Brother is watching!", but it's an overused phrase these days and kind of fallen into ill-repute. Don't make it any less effing true, though... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Peace Date: 06 May 06 - 10:46 PM Tell us exactly where you got that $100 bill, Sol. This is HIGHLY suspicious. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: bobad Date: 06 May 06 - 10:50 PM Rabbi They probably took you for a dope dealer or terrorist, who else walks around with $100 bills? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Rabbi-Sol Date: 06 May 06 - 10:52 PM If the U.S. Post Office is willing to change the bill without photo ID or a social security number why is the bank so paranoid ? It looks like the right hand of the government does not know what the left hand is doing. SOL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Peace Date: 06 May 06 - 10:55 PM Don't start using terms like right and laft. If Homeland Security is reading this, who knows what they'll think? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 06 May 06 - 11:05 PM I went Googling around trying to find more on this subject, but to no avail. I did find this article on a somewhat related subject. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Ebbie Date: 06 May 06 - 11:09 PM If you are doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about. Extrapolating from that, the fact that it upset you is more than enough evidence to convince me. ;) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Peace Date: 06 May 06 - 11:10 PM I'm with Ebbie on this one, Sol. You are a suspicious character, that's for sure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: LadyJean Date: 06 May 06 - 11:15 PM Every time I fly somewhere I get my luggage searched. The world has gone mad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Rabbi-Sol Date: 06 May 06 - 11:15 PM Given the rate of inflation, a $100 bill today is like a $20 bill a few years ago. Why all the fuss ? If it was a $1,000 bill I could understand that some suspicion would be warranted. SOL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Joe Offer Date: 06 May 06 - 11:23 PM Hi, Siol- I think the bank was short of change, and didn't want to start a "run on the bank" by admitting it. There are many establishments, banks among them, that won't give change to non-customers. I'll betcha "national security" is just a convenient excuse. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 06 May 06 - 11:27 PM If Sol's wife's bank is correct in their interpretation, it means every banking transaction involving a $100.00 bill must be reported to the feds. That is such an overwhelming amount of data that it can't possibly put to any real use! Trying to ferret out financial miscreants by using bank transaction data has always been a needle-in-a-haystack proposition. This $100.00 bill-reporting provision is going to do nothing but make the haystack ten or twenty times larger than it was before. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Rapparee Date: 06 May 06 - 11:33 PM I do my best to use nothing larger than a $20, maybe once in a great while a $50. I too would like to know how come you had a $100 bill. That in itself is highly suspicious. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Peace Date: 06 May 06 - 11:38 PM Even ol' Ben's face looks suspicious . . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Rapparee Date: 06 May 06 - 11:42 PM Ben? I thought that was Rabbi Sol. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Rabbi-Sol Date: 06 May 06 - 11:56 PM Actually, I got the $100 bill at another bank when I cashed a check. At the time, I did not think that it would be a problem. I will now be sure to ask for smaller denominations. SOL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Rapparee Date: 07 May 06 - 12:42 AM Seriously, the US $100 bill is one of the most counterfeited in the world. Rumor has it that many of the counterfeits originated in N. Korea; I wouldn't know. But that is the primary reason for many of the changes undergone by US currency in the past few years. Getting one from a bank is probably safest, but other banks and certainly stores might not accept it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: dianavan Date: 07 May 06 - 01:18 AM If I were you, I'd ask my wife to ask the manager for a better explanation. If they try to fluff you off, find another bank. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Bert Date: 07 May 06 - 01:27 AM Rabbi-Sol, Do you by any chance look like a stereotypical Jew? - You know black curly hair and such. 'Cos they might be profiling and thought that you looked like a terrorist. Maybe you should get your wife to cash a large check there and if they try to give her any hundreds then SHE should ask them for the same information. In fact perhaps we should ALL do that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: JohnInKansas Date: 07 May 06 - 02:07 AM I suspect that the suggestion that the bank just didn't want to give change to someone without an account and was just making excuses is the most likely explanation in the case of the $100 bill. Bankers, in my experience, often tell untruths out of ignorance; but occasionally I've seen it done as a matter of convenience. In the case of the story linked by Bdub, it is possible that the spies have asked banks to report "unusual large transactions," but I haven't heard of any such change. It has been a regulatory requirement for several years that any bank processing a cash transaction of $10,000 or more must report it. This is part of an anti-money-laundering packet of laws passed some time ago, at the time purportedly as part of the "war on drugs." The last time I checked, the amount that triggered a report was a specific included part of the banking regulations, so "bending the rules" to apply that particular law to lesser amounts would be ... bending the rules. This is probably a case where the law said "do it" and the Banking and Commerce guys wrote the rules, so changing them would probably be fairly easy; but some public notice would be expected in normal times. Full compliance with the reporting requirements would require the bank to "certify" the identity of the person making the transaction, which in most cases would mean submitting copies of notarized copies of identification documents. The old statute/regulation cropped up (or at least made the news) most often when someone attempted to pay cash for a new car, or even a recent model used one. Auto dealers dislike intensely having to do the extra paperwork to get the cash deposited. (That's on top of their dislike for not getting their bit of financing fees and interest, but that's another topic.) John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Barry Finn Date: 07 May 06 - 02:40 AM I have to show my ID anytime I take the bus to Boston, Mass ($11.) then again show my ID to take the train to Portsmouth, NH ($14), around here (southern New Hampshire) that's what I'd call public transportation. This isn't demanded by the government but is required by the co-oprating transportation owners, it's a "feed into fear" policy which is even worst. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: dianavan Date: 07 May 06 - 03:23 AM Not only is this an inconvenience; you're the one paying for it. I once took a flight within British Columbia and they checked my baggage and took my nail scissors. It was a commuter jet. Yeah, like anyone is going to try to terrorize a little backwater town in B.C. I really think its overkill and you're right, its the "feed into fear" policy. I'm more likely to get run over by a drunk than die in a terrorist attack. I just don't buy it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Rapparee Date: 07 May 06 - 10:56 AM Actually, I think I've seen odds that you more likely to get hit by an asteroid than die in a terrorist attack. Of course, the odds change depending upon where you are. I've thought for quite some time that the government of the US is reacting to threats that no longer exist. To cite but one example, when the "shoe bomber," Reid, tried to light the fuse to the explosives in his shoe the passengers subdued him (as has been the case with various drunks over the past couple or three years). I have no problem with reasonable precautions, but I do think that the reaction (and it has been a reaction all along) is overdone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 07 May 06 - 11:45 AM Banks are required to report the cashing of checks over a certain amount to help prevent money laundering. It's a good idea, but there's a major problem with the system. If, say, a grocery store needs change for its cash registers and sends a cashier to the bank with a check made out to "Cash", the cashier must endorse the check. And, since she is the actual recipient of the money, it's her name that gets reported. It's irrelevant that she's merely a representative of her employer, it still has to be reported under her name. The problem isn't that business employees handling such transactions get investigated. That's possible, but extremely unlikely. The problem is that the system creates mountains of data that must be sifted through to find a handful of suspicious transactions. If banks were allowed to use a bit of discretion, the feds could spend more time catching crooks and a lot less time eliminating routine business transactions from their scope of concern. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 07 May 06 - 12:57 PM Seems to me that the difference in behavior between banks and the post office is somewhat other than what's been discussed above. They march to different drummers. The people who oversee banks are the government, so to speak. Someone at a medium-high level, either at the terrorist bureau (the name of which I disremember just now) or at the bank regulation boards (ditto). The post office is, theoretically at least, a separate corporation, not a part of the government at all. They supervise themselves, and no-one there saw any necessity for such caution, and I suppose there was not a preexisting procedure in the law for government bureaus to regulate them on this sort of a detailed basis. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: open mike Date: 07 May 06 - 01:14 PM another difference about the Post Office is that they regularly use one dollar coins in their vending machines...if fact i wonder if the casinos are the only other institutions that use the dollar coins regularly...hmmm...might there me a connection??!! (have you heard that postage is due to go up again to 42 cents next year?) If you want to see how many bills of all denominations are circulating, go to www.wheresgeorge.com (there is a canadian equivalent site, too) this is where people track the location of paper money...there are thousands of $100 bills listed there.... i have not heard of bank info trouble such as you experienced, but have heard that if a transaction is over $10,000 it needs to be traced and recorded. if you ever get a bill that has a "where's george" mark on it... look up the serial number...it is interesting to see how and where it circulates. since people rarely send cash in the mail, it doesn't often travel huge distances, but some times it does, when they go to far away places and spend it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Rabbi-Sol Date: 07 May 06 - 02:53 PM Bert, I don't think that I look like the stereotypical Jew. I have a beard but it is nowhere as long as Osama's. However, this neighborhood is 90% Orthodox Jewish and many of the bank's depositors are Hasidic, so I just blend in with the crowd rather than sticking out like a sore thumb. It's not like I was an unknown person at this bank either. I frequently make deposits for my wife and both, the teller and the branch manager know who I am. It's just that MY social security number and photo ID are not on file here, and I was not about to give it to them just to satisfy "big brother's" paranoia. SOL ZELLER |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Jeri Date: 07 May 06 - 03:05 PM Dave, it's the other way around. The United States Postal Service is a government agency, but banks aren't. The banks have to stay out of trouble with Big Brother and the USPS works for Big Brother. There are fewer layers between you and the guy at Homeland Security whose job it is to watch you. The dollar coins are great for vending machines that charge $4 for a sandwich. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Bat Goddess Date: 07 May 06 - 03:24 PM Well, it IS suspicous for a FOLK musician to be in possession of a hundred dollar bill. On the other hand, that's the ONLY denomination that antiques dealers carry. I suppose the PO was a good bet -- if you'd spent it on lunch and a cup of coffee, you would't get enough change back. But my suspicion is that soon we'll need a passport (or some kind of national identity papers) to go from a blue state to a red state. But that's what "they" want -- national identity papers. Linn |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 07 May 06 - 04:06 PM A friend of mine tried to register a letter in a mid-sized California town and was told that he must declare the value of the contents. Responses, such as this and the one to Rabbi-Sol, are the result of ignorance. When faced by one of these idiots, ask to see the manager. I think Open Mike is correct; a transfer of $10000 (or similar, it is some time since I read the regulation and I have forgotten the amount) must be recorded. However, the bank may report any suspicious transaction. A teenage daughter of a relative was in tears because the scissors from her saved-for manicure set could not board the airplane. Like Dianavan, she obviously had the markings of a terrorist. I fit the profile as well, I had to take off my boots- no chair and at age 82, it ain't easy to put them back. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Peace Date: 07 May 06 - 04:26 PM Structuring ("smurfing") - Smurfing is possibly the most commonly used money laundering method. It involves many individuals who deposit cash or buy bank drafts in amounts under $10,000. This method is common to both Canada and the United Stats. From an RCMP site. Seems that ten Gs is the magic number. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: GUEST,marks Date: 07 May 06 - 05:45 PM Financial institutions are required to file a "Cash Transaction Report" any time a $ 10,000 or more in cash is used. I learned this from my days working in a casino. If a customer got a payout or payouts totaling over 10G in a 24 hour period, an CTR was filed. I understand banks, auto dealers, etc, fall under this rule too. If you got your money by check, not required to file. Changing a bill was no big deal. The cashiers did it all the time no questions asked. Now they have machines which take big bills and dispense smaller bills. Sounds like your banker was waaaay off base here! Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Rabbi-Sol Date: 07 May 06 - 05:50 PM All U.S. Treasury bills say on them that they are "legal tender for all debts, public and private". Apparently the $100 bill touches a "tender nerve" which brings the full weight of the legal system down hard upon the bearer. "W" and his cohorts have given new meaning to the phrase "legal tender". SOL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: katlaughing Date: 07 May 06 - 06:13 PM Years ago, in the early 80's long before Homeland INSecurity, we went to the local airport and tried to pay for an airline ticket with cash. They refused to accept it until we gave them divers' licenses, social security numbers, address, and proof we had withdrawn the exact amount from our bank. We also had a bank refuse cash for payment of a utility bill in CT. THAT was the utility company's doing and they changed their policy back to accepting cash after a month of protest from thier customers. I remember the banker tleling me, then, in probably 1989, we'd all be using plastic bankcards someday to pay for everything. Boy did he piss me off!:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 07 May 06 - 07:45 PM "who else walks around with $100 bills? " You don't get much change from a $100 bill these days... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Peace Date: 07 May 06 - 07:46 PM Not if you buy a bag of groceries. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 07 May 06 - 07:51 PM Scientists have now used the "where's george" data to simulate how avian flu will spread - in a totally different manner to how previous models worked, as it seems to better reflect real people movements in space and time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Joe Offer Date: 07 May 06 - 10:20 PM Yeah, Sol, it IS really suspicious if you call yourself a folkie and have a $100 bill. Peace is suspicious too, first of all because he's a Canadian; and secondly because he knew without looking it up, that it was Ben Franklin's face on the $100 bill. That means we have two Mudcatter folkies with $100 bills. I guess that mean that Sol and Peace have to buy us a round of beer. Folkies are supposed to share with their fellow folkies, you know. Thanks, guys. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Peace Date: 07 May 06 - 10:24 PM Thge ink isn't dry on mine, Joe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Peace Date: 07 May 06 - 10:28 PM And is the spelling 'hunderd'? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: jimmyt Date: 07 May 06 - 10:35 PM No $1000 bills in circulation for many years now. I tried to get some in December to find out they are still legal tender but are quite collectors' items and never available at anything near face value. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Peace Date: 07 May 06 - 10:39 PM What's face value on a $1000 bill? In fact, whose face in on a $1000 bill? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 07 May 06 - 11:01 PM Peace, you friggin' nit-wit, the face value of a $1,000 bill is $1,000. The value to collectors is much more than that. Here's a picture. The guy is Grover Cleveland, the only US president to have served two non-consecutive four-year terms. He was defeated in his first re-election bid, but came back and won four years later. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: pdq Date: 07 May 06 - 11:04 PM If it is ever re-issued, the face will probably be "Thousand Dollar" Bill Gates. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Rabbi-Sol Date: 07 May 06 - 11:12 PM Joe, If they don't want to change the $100 bill I will have to buy the whole keg rather than just a round of beer. SOL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Peace Date: 07 May 06 - 11:24 PM "the only US president to have served two non-consecutive four-year terms" I can think of a few who should serve 10 to 20. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Peace Date: 07 May 06 - 11:26 PM F10464598M. Is that the guy's phone number? Must be a sonuvagun to clean that place, huh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: open mike Date: 07 May 06 - 11:43 PM Numismatic information here www.usmint.gov |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: JohnInKansas Date: 07 May 06 - 11:45 PM Knowing whose face is on a bill doesn't mean much. I know that I share the name of a person who appears on the $10,000 US bill (and so does at least one other 'catter, I believe). That definitely does not mean I've ever seen one first hand. I do have a picture of one, but my bank won't take it. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Suffet Date: 08 May 06 - 12:17 AM Greetings: United States Federal Reserve Notes in the denominations of $500, $1,000, $5,000, and $10,000 were withdrawn from circulation in 1969. The reason was to make it more difficult for drug dealers and other criminals to transfer large amounts of cash. But even as early as 1942, the U.S. government required banks to ask for identification from people who tried to deposit or exchnage such large denominations. The purpose at the time was to stop black marketeers. This policy continued after World War II, and the purpose became to stop tax evaders. The Bureau of Engraving and Printing last produced those high denominations in 1945. I remember in the early 1960s it was sometimes possible to buy a genuine $1,000 bill from some less than legitimate individual for as little as $800. If you had a high volume cash business that dealt in expensive goods, such as a jewelry exchange, you might be able to launder one or two a year without raising suspicion. Beyond that, you would be taking a big risk. High denomination bills are indeed collectors' items. $500 and $1,000 Federal Reserve Notes are easily found from dealers at coin and currency shows. The premium over face value will depend mostly on condition, ranging from good (which really means pretty creased and worn, but not damaged) to crisp uncirculated. It will also depend upon the series, the combination of signatures, and the issuing Federal Reserve Bank. But expect to pay more than double face value for even the most common varieties. Notes in less than good condition, and those which are torn, defaced, or otherwise damaged, are undesirable as collectibles, but are sometimes worth a small premium over face value as curiosities. $5,000 and $10,000 Federal Reserve Notes are rare in any condition, and are very seldom seen. If you really want to buy high denomination U.S. currency, the best known dealer is The Currency House. Here's the website: http://www.thecurrencyhouse.com/ Check out their prices, especially for the one $5,000 note they currently have for sale. --- Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Peace Date: 08 May 06 - 12:20 AM They wouldn't take this from me, either, John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Peace Date: 08 May 06 - 12:35 AM Geeze, the guy doesn't even have a beard. Like, what's that about? So, uh, BWL, what would the face value of that one be? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Suffet Date: 08 May 06 - 01:04 AM Greetings: The face value of the note that Peace asks about is obviously $5,000. The numismatic market value is much higher. The one and only $5,000 note currently in The Currency House stock carries an asking price of $62,500. The Series 1934 is the same as Peace's note, and the condition appears to be approximately the same, but the Federal Reserve Bank is different. Take a look: http://www.thecurrencyhouse.com/images/k39.jpg --- Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Joe Offer Date: 08 May 06 - 02:37 AM Paper currency comes from the U.S. Bureau of Printing and Engraving - I like their URL: http://www.moneyfactory.gov/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: JohnInKansas Date: 08 May 06 - 03:22 AM Peace - 12:20 AM Looks like a perfectly good note to me. Did you maybe put one of the muppets on the back side and that made them suspicious? John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: beardedbruce Date: 08 May 06 - 07:07 AM Sol, You state: ": RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Rabbi-Sol - PM Date: 07 May 06 - 05:50 PM All U.S. Treasury bills say on them that they are "legal tender for all debts, public and private". Apparently the $100 bill touches a "tender nerve" which brings the full weight of the legal system down hard upon the bearer. "W" and his cohorts have given new meaning to the phrase "legal tender". " Since you have only the word of the teller that it is a government policy, perhaps you should check the validity of the teller's statement BEFORE blaming "W" Hundreds are not tracked, restricted, or in any way bringing the full weight of the legal system down hard upon the bearer. Larger bills are, as stated above, but that is from LONG before either Bush administration. If the teller had said that it was the Jews controlling the World Bank that had the regulation, would you believe that? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: beardedbruce Date: 08 May 06 - 07:14 AM btw, Frequently Used Portraits on United States Paper Money $1 Note (Face) - George Washington (1st U.S. President) (Back) - The Great Seal of the United States $2 Note (Face) - Thomas Jefferson (3rd U.S. President) (Back) - Signing of the Declaration of Independence $5 Note (Face) - Abraham Lincoln (16th U.S. President) (Back) - Lincoln Memorial $10 Note (Face) - Alexander Hamilton (1st Secretary of the Treasury) (Back) - U.S. Treasury Building $20 Note (Face) - Andrew Jackson (7th U.S. President) (Back) - White House $50 Note (Face) - Ulysses Grant (18th U.S. President) (Back) - U.S. Capitol $100 Note (Face) - Ben Franklin (Statesman) (Back) - Independence Hall $500 Note* (Face) - William McKinley (25th U.S. President) (Back) - Numeral 500 and the ornamental phrase "Five Hundred Dollars" $1000 Note* (Face) - Grover Cleveland (22nd & 24th U.S. President) (Back) - Numeral 1000 and the ornamental phrase "One Thousand Dollars" $5000 Note* (Face) - James Madison (4th U.S. President) (Back) - Numeral 5000 and the ornamental phrase "Five Thousand Dollars" $10,000 Note* (Face) - Salmon Chase (U.S. Treasury Secretary under Lincoln) (Back) - Numeral 10,000 and the ornamental phrase "Ten Thousand Dollars" $100,000 Note* (Face) - Woodrow Wilson (28th U.S. President) (Back) - Numeral 100,000 and the ornamental phrase "One Hundred Thousand Dollars". This note never appeared in general circulation, and was only used in transactions between Federal Reserve Banks. * = Notes no longer in print or circulation |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Suffet Date: 08 May 06 - 09:02 AM Greetings: Since the $100,000 notes were never in circulation, they are not collectible. By the way, they were Gold Certificates, not Federal Reserve Notes. According to the most recent records, only about 106 $5,000 notes and about 170 $10,000 notes of all varieties have not yet been redeemed. A number of them are in museums or institutional reference collections, and are thus not available to private collectors. Joe is right that the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (a division of the Treasury Department) produces all U.S. paper money. However, it only sells currently produced currency to the public. Collectors can buy other currency from dealers such as The Currency House, from dealers at coin and currency shows, or through Internet auctions sites such as EBay. As I said before, $500 and $1,000 notes are expensive, but most are not rare. Depending upon series, signature combination, and condition, you can find them for a little over two times their face value. You can even buy ones that are torn, scuffed, have had adhesive tape removed, or are otherwise undesirable for a small premium over face value. During the American Civil War and for about a decade thereafter, there was also paper currency circulating in denominations under one dollar: 3¢, 5¢, 10¢, 15¢, 25¢, and 50¢. Some series of this Fractional Currency were issued by the Treasury Department, but some were issued by the Post Office Department. The latter were called Postage Currency, and were redeemable in postage stamps rather than in coins. One last thing: those portraits cited above refer only to the small size U.S. currency, first produced in 1928 and released for circulation early in 1929. Many different designs and portraits were used on the large size currency produced from 1861 to 1928. --- Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Peace Date: 08 May 06 - 10:20 AM Muppets? I didn't try that. Thanks for the idea, John. Huh, muppets . . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 08 May 06 - 01:42 PM John in Kansas told us: I know that I share the name of a person who appears on the $10,000 US bill (and so does at least one other 'catter, I believe). That definitely does not mean I've ever seen one first hand. I really have seen one first hand. What's more, I held it in my own hot little hands. But no, I didn't own it. Some years ago I was acquainted with the man who was the vice-president of a big Indianapolis bank who had charge of the vaults. I had done his wife a service at the time. The bank was doing a sort of outreach program, and asked bank officers to invite local businessmen and the like whom they might know to have lunch with them in the Executive Lunch Room. By way of thanking me for the favor to his wife, he invited me for lunch. Let me tell you, that Executive Lunch Room had some good food, in really posh surroundings! After lunch he asked me if I'd like a tour of the bank's vaults. Of course I said yes. So down to the bank basement, and down a long corridor, with a guard station. He explained who I was,and we passed it by. Now to another guard station, this time like an air lock, with two gates, and a guard window between. He waved to the guard, who pressed a button to open the first door. When it closed behind us, we BOTH had to get out our picture ID! And this was the VP in charge of the vaults, well known by sight to every guard in the place, I'm sure, but he had to show his ID too. And of course identify who I was, and that he was giving me a personal tour. Then the guard electrically opened the second door. So we went in. There were a number of rooms, but there's only two I remember. One was a big room with high speed coin and bill counting and packaging machines, maybe 15 of them, most busily racketing away, turning out bundles of counted bills and rolls of coins. The noise was intense. After we'd been there, we went to the REAL vault. The huge, multi-ton door stood open, but there were two barred gates inside, electrically operated of course, and between them was a uniformed guard. Once inside the first gate again both of us had to show picture ID! Then the guard opened the inner gate, and stepped in with us. There were forklift pallets and pallets and pallets full of rolls of coin and plastic wrapped megastacks of bundles of money. The word "awesome" is vastly overused these days, but I have to say that the sight was truly awesome. Now, getting to the point. The gate guard, who had come with us, took us to another gate, which he opened with a key on his belt. We now got into a smaller room, whose walls were lined with lock boxes. No, these were not safe-deposit boxes for the public. My friend the VP said to the guard, "The tens". The guard opened a box with about a 4x6 door, and stood back. The VP reached in, and got out a $10,000 bill. "Would you like to hold it? You probably will never see another one, let alone touch one." Sure, of course. I held it for about 15 seconds, whereupon it was locked away again with its fellows. He said, "These don't circulate. They spend their lives in this room, and are only gotten out for special occasions, like if the City is making a public ceremony of paying for land for an auditorium or the like, so the newspapers can take a picture of the Mayor handing a big payment in cash to the seller." As I recall it, he explained that on such occasions, unlike what you might expect, they are not shipped by armored car. Instead, some odd amount of time before the ceremony the payment is hand carried by an employee of the bank (probably a guard, in civilian clothes), in a briefcase chained to his waist. It seems that armored cars attract too much attention. The police know about the shipment, and unobtrusively keep the messenger in close sight every step of the way. After the ceremonial use of the money, a differently clothed messenger brings it right back to the vaults, by a different route. And no, I don't remember whose picture was on the $10,000 bill. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 08 May 06 - 01:45 PM It's possible my memory is playing me tricks in me old age. I'm beginning to think it was not a $10,000 note but a $100,000 note. In any case, the occasion was memorable, as you might expect. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Suffet Date: 08 May 06 - 02:56 PM Greetings: My educated guess is that what Dave held was a $10,000 Federal Reserve Note. The bank is in a funny position. According to the Treasury Department order of 1969, the bank can only return that note to the Federal Reserve or to the Treasury, and it cannot pay it out to a bank customer. On the other hand, the numismatic value is considerably more than $10,000. So the note stays put for now. Maybe one day the Treasury will lift the surrender rule, as it eventually did for gold coins and Gold Certificates. The $100,000 Gold Certificates were only used to settle accounts among Federal Reserve Banks and the U.S. Treasury. A private bank would not likely have one in its vault. --- Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Jim Dixon Date: 08 May 06 - 03:31 PM I work at the "post office" window of a university. We are employees of the University, not the US Postal Service, and we are not an official post office (not even a contract station), but we function much like one. We can accept packages, compute postage rates, sell stamps, etc.--mostly for students and staff, but occasionally for the general public. I can testify that some people, particularly foreign students, particularly Japanese students, do carry $100 bills around with them. I suppose it's a cultural difference. Things are more expensive in Japan, and robberies are less common. It's always a problem when somebody tries to give me a $100 bill. Sometimes I don't take in that much cash in a day, and I only start out with $60 in the cash register. The food service here doesn't accept any bills bigger than $20, either. Then there are other student who don't carry enough change to buy a stamp. I almost never have big bills myself, because nearly all the cash I spend comes from an ATM, and I don't know any ATM that dispenses bills bigger than $20. The only ATM on campus dispenses only $10 bills. The biggest "security" problem we have is a rule that the USPS imposes on us: we are supposed to ask to see an official university picture ID of anyone who tries to mail a package heavier than 1 pound. If anyone drops off a package with us without showing an ID, we are supposed to label it "TARGET MAIL" which means the USPS will subject it to closer scrutiny, and they might return it to the sender. I don't know what criteria they use to decide this, or if they are consistent. This rule is older than Homeland Security. I am told it goes back to the days when Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber, was sending bombs through the mail. In the interest of good public relations, we would like to provide this service to the public (accepting heavy packages), but we can't. Ironically, Federal Express and UPS don't have this rule, but they are usually more expensive than US Mail. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: JohnInKansas Date: 08 May 06 - 04:06 PM Jim D - In my area, I have the opposite ATM problem. I don't know how general it is, as I only use ATMs with reciprocal waiver of fees for Credit Unions, but about two years ago all the CU ATMs began dispensing $50 bills. Since you can only withdraw in $10 increments, at most you can get one $10, one $20, or two $20s. The rest of a larger withdrawal is always in $50s. When they first started doing this, I had several refusals to accept the $50 bills; although none of them indicated it was because of "regulations." Businesses, especially small ones, simply didn't keep enough change on hand to be able to take larger bills. The businesses seem to have adjusted, since most places hardly notice a $50 anymore. A few places, especially large grocery stores, barely even look at $100 bills. Bills of $50 and larger often get "marked" with the felt tip pens the cashiers keep to "reveal" the new anti-counterfeit markings, but $100 bills with those markings have not been released yet so far as I know.(?) For those interested in variations in US notes, a second hand copy of the 1914 $10,000 Federal Reserve Note I mentioned early in the thread is reported as an image from the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco's website. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Rabbi-Sol Date: 08 May 06 - 05:40 PM Gas stations on the Connecticut Turnpike, (I-95) do not accept any bills larger than $20. I filled up my van last week which has a 36 gallon tank. The total came to $111.60 for 34 gallons. I was lucky to have a Mobil credit card. SOL ZELLER |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Peace Date: 08 May 06 - 05:50 PM Are we sure it's OK to be talking about numismatics on this thread? Like, is it a socially acceptable thing to discuss in public? I have the same question about philatelism. Just doesn't seem RIGHT somehow . . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 08 May 06 - 11:52 PM AH! now you'ev reminded me of one of my favourite old movies - "The Million Pound Note" - the original B&W version... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 09 May 06 - 12:22 AM Mr. Zeller you are zealously paranoid.
If your wife had taken the same bill, to her own bank, there would of been no problem.
Sincerely,
What sort of kook walks around New York with 100 dollar bills? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Suffet Date: 09 May 06 - 12:49 AM Greetings: Peace asks, Are we sure it's OK to be talking about numismatics on this thread? Like, is it a socially acceptable thing to discuss in public? I have the same question about philatelism. Just doesn't seem RIGHT somehow . . . . I do not know the answer, but I do know that the correct word for the study, classification, and collecting of stamps, postal stationery, and postal history is philately, not philatelism. --- Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Peace Date: 09 May 06 - 11:38 AM "I do know that the correct word for the study, classification, and collecting of stamps, postal stationery, and postal history is philately, not philatelism." Than you. Now I do too. So allow me to rephrase the incorrect statement: "Are we sure it's OK to be talking about numismatics on this thread? Like, is it a socially acceptable thing to discuss in public? I have the same question about philately. Just doesn't seem RIGHT somehow . . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 09 May 06 - 01:57 PM Peace asked: "Are we sure it's OK to be talking about numismatics on this thread? Like, is it a socially acceptable thing to discuss in public? I have the same question about philately. Just doesn't seem RIGHT somehow . . . . I can't imagine why there would be any question of social acceptability of discussing either numismatics or philately, here or elsewhere. Both of those are discussions of the objects of exchange, and the lore of the same. I do understand that many people are uncomfortable with a discussion of the financial affairs of themselves or others. But that's a different matter, because it may tend to indicate or stimulate a comparison regarding different people based on what they earn or have. Braggadocio and/or poor-mouthism are unlovely, as are fawning on the haves or invidious comments on the relative have-nots. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Peace Date: 09 May 06 - 02:41 PM Sometimes the joke don't work . . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Rabbi-Sol Date: 09 May 06 - 03:42 PM Gargoyle, I do not make it a regular practice to walk around with $100 bills in my pocket, especially not in this post 9/11 day and age. However I occasinally get stuck with one, which is what happened the other day. SOL ZELLER |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: jeffp Date: 09 May 06 - 03:54 PM That's OK, Peace. I got it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Rabbi-Sol Date: 09 May 06 - 03:57 PM As a follow up I went into a different branch of The Bank of New York today to make a deposit. This one was in New City and the other one was in Monsey. I told the teller about my experiences with the other bank on Friday. He said yes, there is a Homeland Security regulation on the books that requires social security and photo ID for changing $100 bills, but that his branch manager chooses not to enforce it. His exact words were "Just because we have an idiot sitting in the White House does not mean that we all have to become idiots as well." He told me that the manager of the Monsey branch where I had the problem happens to be of Pakistani extraction and chooses to do everything by the books just to cover his posterior. I can accept that explanation. SOL ZELLER |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: beardedbruce Date: 09 May 06 - 03:59 PM Sol, Down here the banks have no idea about that regulation. But then, a hundred will just about fill one tank of gas... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Ebbie Date: 09 May 06 - 05:49 PM I got it too, Peace. Made me smile. People just have no sense of what is appropriate on a public forum. :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 09 May 06 - 07:24 PM Jeri told us, some time back: Dave, it's the other way around. The United States Postal Service is a government agency, but banks aren't Au contraire, mon cher! The US Postal Service is NOT a government agency. Yes, it used to be, but it is a separate corporation now, and has been so for some years. Yes, set up by Congressional authority, but it needs to break even, etc. (unlike government agencies), and can't be (supposedly) bailed out by the United States if it loses money. It needs to have any proposed postage hikes approved by Congress, although there's not much likelihood of getting turned down. The amount of a rate increase may be beaten down in the process of being congressionally approved. My point was (and is) that the Post Office is technically not part of government. Neither, as you point out, are the banks. But the banks, being a whole industry and totally separate from the government, and having extreme power for good or ill vis-a-vis the economy, are placed under regulation. The Post Office is under regulation from Congress, true enough, but the same kind of oversight does not apply. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Suffet Date: 10 May 06 - 10:35 AM Greetings: Both Jeri and Dave are correct. The United States Postal Service, which came into being on Juy 1, 1971, is in fact a corporation, not a department of the federal government, as was its predecessor, the United States Post Office Department. Nor is it an idependent agency, as FEMA used to be before becoming part of the Department of Homeland Security. However, the US Postal Service is unlike an ordinary corporation in many important way. Here are a few: • It is entirely owned by the United States of America. It has neither stockholders nor other owners. • Its directors, known as the Board of Governors, are appointed by the President of the United States. • The rates that it charges for its services are set by an Independent Postal Rate Commission, which is a U.S. government agency. • It enjoys a legal monopoly on the collection, dispatch, and delivery of first class mail (letters and other items of personal communication such as statements of account) with only such exemptions as Congress makes. (Congress has made an exemption for extremely urgent letters, which has allowed FEDEX and UPS to compete with the US Postal Service's Express Mail service.) • Its products, services, and property are not subject to state and local taxation. • Its employees are prohibitted by federal law from going on strike. • Its stamps and money orders are considered securities and obligations of the United States. • Crimes committed on or against US Postal Service property or personnel can be prosecuted as federal crimes. • Postal inspectors working for the US Postal Service are designated special agents of the United States, and they enjoy all the powers and authority of other federal law enforcement officers. The US Postal Service can this be considered a US federal government agency in the sense that people commonly use the term. --- Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: beardedbruce Date: 10 May 06 - 10:43 AM I still cannot find ANY reference to ANY Homeland Security or IRS regulation concerning reporting of $100 bills. Doe ANYONE have any FACTS about this? My bank knows nothing about it, the stores know nothing about it, and there is nothing available on the Web. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: beardedbruce Date: 12 May 06 - 04:10 PM OK, the manager of the Chevy Chase banks states " There are no regulations requiring any reporting of changing $100 bills. As aa policy, we only provide service to our own account holders, but we do not keep any records whatsoever of exchanging denominations." Anyone have anything else? "Has anyone bothered to isolate the facts around this slander? Or are we just beating drums and dancing around the campfire here? Amos" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: open mike Date: 12 May 06 - 04:55 PM thank you peace, for taking that ball and running with it.. that is why i drop-kicked it in here... sounds like a verse from the musical Hair that I recall being very educational |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: Donuel Date: 13 May 06 - 10:29 AM Just try to change 25 pennies for a quarter at a Bank. They won't do it unless you open an account. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Change $100 Bill - 'W' Is Watching From: JohnInKansas Date: 14 May 06 - 12:20 AM Donuel - At one bank I encountered back in WA state, they'd take the coins, but they charged you for running them through the "counting machine" and for the wrappers to bundle them. I think I remember a minimum $2.00 for counting, with a percentage for anything over a certain amount. "A penny saved is - a piss-poor screwdriver." (But you never know when you'll run into a loose screw.) John |
