BS: Generous Britain

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: dianavan
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 09:50 PM

You're a deadbeat, GUEST.

The courts decide who gets custody based on what is best for the child. Custody does not always go to the mother. You just don't want to pay child support.

Loser!

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 06:20 PM

Sorry Jon, I lost a phrase somewhere. Those I meant to criticise were the guests who come in for a post or two, and don't listen or respond, not those like you who actually do. My mistake....

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 06:00 PM

They don't need deadbeat mothers either, but try telling that to the courts when you're a man trying to get custody of your kids!

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 02:31 PM

guest 1.33 now if you had said tiger had failed at every shot and collapsed in a heap without sinking a ball you would have made your point stronger.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: dianavan
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 02:14 PM

oops - a case of the stutters.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: dianavan
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 02:11 PM

Guest -

Nobody said children said children do not need fathers.

Children do not, however, need 'dead beat dads'.

Something else, just because mom and dad don't live together, doesn't mean the child has no father.

What are you so worried about?

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 01:33 PM

For all those who say children don't need fathers, watch the last moments of Tiger Wood's win in the British Open, his first since the death of his mentor and father.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 09:00 AM

Do I have to choose now Freda?
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: freda underhill
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 08:46 AM

alright, alright, i take back the castration bit. maybe a bit of slow torture by compulsory childcare..

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: clairerise
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 06:28 AM

If teenage girls are getting pregnant on purpose just to give them a better standard of life, then something should be done to improve the standard of live that they have...

Sadly some people can't be helped no matter how much you try to improve their lives

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 06:19 AM

Giok, please think of my blood pressure !

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 05:36 AM

OK, Kara.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 04:54 AM

She is at that Divis, she's a lovely lady, wears high heel's with jeans too!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 04:11 AM

Ah come on Hilda, bet your a young filly in fine shape ! Credit given for above post, well said.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: hilda fish
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 03:45 AM

Ah, leave each other alone. Where would all these kids come from without a man and a woman finding something pretty good about each other. Forgive everything is what I say, and do the best you can, but also take up the slack for some of us who don't do as good as we would probably like to do. We've all been there at one time or another. Kids need to be surrounded by a caring (at various levels) community and we all need kindness and forgiveness in our lives - don't we? (from a rough old tart with a fallen ass (what is an ass? a small horse?) who men dumped along the way - I don't think so! Really!)

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Kara
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 06:27 PM

Thanks DS, I hope Martin doesn't mind that I appear to be having a good time dispite having been on single parent benefit for a couple of years!!!

Guest Jon, if my opening comment was a bit scary it really was aimed at the original poster and I did apologies to all nice men.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 04:06 PM

Jon, I worked as a Therapist in mental health for 26 years, retired there in March on my pension age 46. I worked with so many that you could relate to. Life sometimes seems to deposit a load of sh1t on individuals who least deserve it. I saw so many young mums battered and living in fear. We have a duty to care for everyone and I know some abuse the system, people abuse everything in life that can be, it's not just benefits. I know that the pension I paid into for all those years was worth it now, was hard to see at the time. Please don't respond to the wind up brigade here, ignore is the order of the day !

Really do hope all works out for you in life. Take care and best wishes
Divis.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 03:46 PM

NP DS, I guess (while I don't dispute the are Guest posters here for the fun of winding others up) I get more than a little pissed of with the slag guests off bit.

I also am a little bit touchy ofer comment like the one Kara opened with I've only had 2 girlfriends, neither long lived though I've always tried to be decent (can't claim young any more). First one in bed with another man, second turned out to have a boyfreind in prison. I don't however feel the need to start laying the blame for all life's woes on women because of my experiences...

Fact of the matter is there can be problems caused by either party and IMO there are possible issues raised in this thread that could even cause the "ideal couple" to take free accomodation rather than work, issues such as minimum wages, availability of work, etc. It doesn't seem to surprising to me that some might simply not want to bother.

As for supporting people, yes I believe we should. I'm long term sick and these days with alcohol problems - I always liked a drink too much perhaps but really hit the bottle hard after the second girlfriend problem and have never properly established control since, though sometimes I get close, and a label (I'm on no meds BTW) "schiz" from many years back has not helped matters, etc. and draw on the state anyway so I couldn't be begruging anyone else support could I? Besides that, when I was working believe it or not I was one of those who didn't begrudge paying taxes - at least with one job I even felt quite lucky to have one with good prospects and felt aware that others would have liked the same...

You know, when I worked in this factory, I had a conversation with the chap in charge of the training school where people had to learn certain tasks and get up to speed before getting onto the line. Not everyone could do it (and I in fact failed but got a position as a shop floor labourer before getting promoted to the offices). He didn't feel safe to go out for a drink in his home down because of threats from people he had no choice but to fail.

One can't condone such actions but the company was one of the few payers in the area with much of the work being seasonal in a tourist area and I think it might just give an indication as to just how desperate some people are for steady reasonable paying work.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 03:06 PM

Guest Jon and Kara I am not here to fall out with anyone, I agree there are bastards out there who get a clap on the back from morons as to their actions for being a "he man" it's the girls get the rough end of the stick, don't allow some old tosser to try and derail the issue here. Not all kids are out to screw the system. Sorry if you found my remarks offensive, I never meant it come across in that way Jon, big big sorry to you. Kara you look great, really mean that.
Divis

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Kara
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 01:25 PM

any by the way bile if it is me you are referring to as a "old rough tarts who men dumped along the line with good reason I imagine. Probably suffered fallen ass, when their tailgate falls!"
I'm the one in the dress

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Kara
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 01:11 PM

Divis,(I can not see anything that might be considered outrageous in your post) I agree there are great fathers,(my husband for example) I am really not at all anti men,just anti tossers and as Guest 11.12 so aptley points out "Men are never stuck with women, (OR CHILDREN FOR THAT MATTER) it's common knowledge we can and do move on"

But that is not what Martin (who spends his spare time cruising the local talent from the safety of his car)is alarmed about, but that girls are choosing to become pregnant and realising that they are so much better off they are without Mr, "oh I'll hang around till you get a bit flabby them swap you for a fitter model" and deciding to become a single parent. (moving on)

Basically its the women who have the power on this one, she can decide that the Father can not see the kid, in most cases there is a reason, even if it is just because he has pissed her off. Im not saying this is a good thing as I believe that a good Father is an invaluable thing and I would not have liked to have had to bring my kids up without one. But a bad Father is not worth the effort.

What I am trying to say is that I think being a Father can be as rewarding as being a Mother. Men do seem to be more ready than women to decide that they can turn their backs on the opportunity, or less ready to decide that they are wiling to give the Mother the support and love she requires to let them stay.


Some posts back Dianavan talked about getting support from other single Mums, how they helped each other with childcare, cooking and transport, I wonder if she had been getting that help and support from her childrens Father if would she ever have become single parent?

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 12:54 PM

You are right Giok, leave it to women to raffle off on one. This was reasonably intelligent until female bitterness took hold and attacked men and fathers. My views on these women have changed somewhat since their arrival I now see the situation in a different light. They can stew in their own bile.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 12:45 PM

Now play nice children, this was a fairly intelligent thread, with no name calling until recently. Can we try to keep it that way please?
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 12:35 PM

And so said madam swinging gut!

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 11:49 AM

And for every sad man who moves on to a 'younger model' there are a dozen people watching him and laughing. The hair dye is bought, the car traded up, the paunch ill advisedly concealed in clothes designed for a much younger guy...and one morning she wakes up and realises she could do much better. And you are left on your own.

And then you have an awful lot of life left to wonder where it all went wrong. Despised by your kids, loathed by your family and ridiculed by your colleagues.

More power to all mums whatever their age. They are giving us the future. Only those unhappy with their present can't appreciate that.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: freda underhill
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 11:20 AM

woof!

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 11:19 AM

divis sweeney, if that had been a Guest post, it would have been considered an outrageous statement.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 11:12 AM

Clearly I am reading the words here of a couple of old rough tarts who men dumped along the line with good reason I imagine. Probably suffered fallen ass, when their tailgate falls ! or when you look at them beside you in the morning and know you could do so much better. Men are never stuck with women, it's common knowledge we can and do move on to younger models which hits them hard ! Ah lovely to read the words of twisted women who can't accept age or truth !

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: freda underhill
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 11:00 AM

yay hilda fish! let's fight the oppressive economic rationalist misogymnastic women-hating running dogs that are barking up the wrong tree! castrate all men who serially whinge about women and sell their balls to the International Chinese Tabletennis Association. More money to help kids get by and then get ahead! Jacuzzis in every home and rent out Westminster palace for homeless people.

compassion rules, ok.

freda

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 10:53 AM

Sorry Kara only made an observation from what I seen. Did my bit, paid for all and never was on benefit myself, but I do give understanding and agree to the support these young mums get. Yes there are fathers not worth a toss, but there are good ones too and many don't get to see their kids even though they want to. Some here are clearly anti young mum, but don't go anti man to give a balance.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Kara
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 10:37 AM

Thanks hilda fish!

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: hilda fish
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 10:29 AM

Ahhhhhhhh! Personally I'm really happy if my taxes are used to support kids. I don't care where or how they were conceived. It means that they matter and they need to know that they matter. 'These girls' are part of our human race, not some"thing" separate. So spend my money gals, and do the best by your kids. Happy to pay - sooner pay you than pay for the bombs that are killing people in Lebanon and Iraq. Personally I find children, wherever, whoever, however, a joy and an affirmation of hope in this world of ours. Spend big, gals, on the measly amount the government gives you, either here in Australia, England, America, wherever, and let me know how 'cos I'd like to stretch that dollar too. Mostly these kids turn out to be wonderful adults and mostly, despite the smoking and drinking (and the odd round of sex, the bitches!) the mothers manage to love and raise some pretty good human beings.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Kara
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 09:17 AM

"It's maybe hard to get a young guy prepared to get involved in a relationship with someone else's kids in it."

The real problem is that its hard to get a guy involved in a relationship with his OWN kid in it, or a least to get him involved in a way that is beneficial to "the family"

Sure there are plenty of guys who want someone to cook for them clean up after them and wash their socks, they might even be willing to move in with you (once you've got a council flat) but are not willing or are not capable of giving anyting in return, now why would a young girl with a baby to look after want to or be encouraged to put up with that?

I remember one day a young man (father of one of the kids) coming round to a shared house to see his son. Telling us how he would never take a govenement hand out, but was quite happy to have his ex and mother of his child feed him out of her single parent benefit.

I have unlimited respect for men who fulfil their rolls as fathers,and husbands and provide a loving home for their familly, but I don't know many of them.

For every single mother who is taking the responsibility for her actions there is a man who is not.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 07:08 AM

Bullshit. The first MEMBER post was about as one sided as anything else:

It just goes to show that the quality of the average British male is so low that girls would rather be single parents than put up with a low quality man in their lives.

I know I for one have at least tried to be reasonable in my GUEST posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 07:04 AM

Good point Bunnahabhain, sadly what I do notice where I live, is a lot of these young girls are used and you see wasters come and go to their houses. It's maybe hard to get a young guy prepared to get involved in a relationship with someone else's kids in it. It can be a knockback for some girls hoping that they think they found Mr. right and he's off again once fed. Sadly the phrase, A woman gives sex in search of love and a man gives love in search of sex comes to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 06:52 AM

We have a wonderful example here of moderates vs Guests here, almost a textbook case.

Guests come in and say something one sided, and various members try to be reasonable, and acknowledge that the point Guest XYZ makes may be true in a few cases, but is being very harsh. It is seen over and over again

In this case, there is a full spectrum of people, from the few who are the feckless layabouts though to those who settle down in a loving, stable relationship for life and manage to bring up healthy, normal, educated children and work their way up to a reasonable job themselves.


people are too variable to lump together, as has been done too much here, especially if you do so at an extreme.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 04:47 AM

LOL! Keep 'em coming mate!

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 04:01 AM

Funny enough, after I posted I saw that myself, must be the dirty old man in me !

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 02:23 AM

Don't know whether that was intentional Divis, but funny all the same - "Get off their back and let them enjoy themselves". Wasn't it getting ON their backs and enjoying themselves that started this thread! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 08:06 PM

You are being a bit hard on these kids mate, these young girls have lives too. Good luck to them looking forward to a night out, getting ready, feeling and looking good about themselves, fair play to them.

I would imagine if you were able to spot and know they lived in your area you have been looking at them in other ways too !

Wonder would you take an invite, maybe that's the problem you don't !
Get of their back and let them enjoy themselves. Their youth is short enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Kara
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 07:16 PM

Is it all females who are enjoying themself that you object to or did these girls have their bastard offspring with them in the pub.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 07:11 PM

Oink

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST,Martin.
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 06:59 PM

Just driving home tonight and saw the flock of these little breeding machines that live in my area heading out drinking and having a really good time on our taxes and no doubt plan to bring home some bloke without asking his name and probably burden us in nine months with another scrounger ! I agree with you, look upon them as what they really are and make sure they know your views, well said Allen, just ignore the bra burners above.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Kara
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 06:42 PM

Dianavan

As far as shared houses is concerned I was speaking more of my own experiences. If as a kid you are living in a house with 5 women you are going to have more female role models than male.This may not be a bad thing, but is not really going to encourage kids to grow up and set up a nuclear familly.

I do not doubt that you are capable of finding positive male role models, but when you are living in shared accomodation it is not just you who says who can and can't come into your home. Not everyone has the same idea of positive.

To be honest I don't think it is a problem strictly with the teaching profession, most men I would not consider to be a positive role model. Although there are many who are.

Guest Allen
Bringing up children has always been a profession that women have done and men have paid for. I don't think you should be giving these girls a hard time because the men won't or can't pay.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 02:59 PM

Kara -

Who said there were no men in our lives? Just because we're single doesn't mean we don't have male friends and relatives.

You sound like the prof. who said that more men were needed in teaching so as to provide role models for kids from single parent families. What a joke! Most of the men in the teaching profession I would not want as role models for my children. Besides that, I am quite capable of finding men that serve as positive role models. If not, they aren't allowed in our home.

Patronizing people, deciding what it is they need, doesn't help anybody to gain independence.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 02:53 PM

respect has to be earned, not given.

That depends if you think there is a problem with young mums on welfare. If you don't then they are on a level footing with everyone else. I suspect the very fact they are young mums on welfare is a cause for their critics in this thread to deny them respect.

Unless of course they farm their children out to a nursery and 'better' themselves. It all depends where you stand on farming children out. Personally I have more respect for the stay at home mother who raises her family then finds her working vocation when they are grown.

A lot of the mothers who can't wait to hand over their children to day care are not actually up to the job of child rearing them selves. It leaves them feeling guilty and inadequate and they kick back at any who choose the other route.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Kara
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 02:43 PM

Tripple taxes for all men who can not PROVE that they have never had sex???

I do not consider myself to be a cheap little slut infact I do not know anyone I would describe or treat as a cheap little slut.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST,Allen.
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 02:37 PM

Tax payers are paying out far too much to maintain their lifestyles. This way of life is a profession. They are laughing at the system. Treat them as cheap little sluts as really most are.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Kara
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 02:32 PM

Its good for single mums and the kids to have contact with non single mums and dads too.
Although hostel type accomodation maybe OK for mums with little babies it is in not a good thing to have kids in institutions.

I think house sharing is good as you get the support of others as Dianavan says help with childcare, taking turns with cooking, but it does give the kids a very one sided view of live with no men in it.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 01:54 PM

Don T. -

I don't know what you mean by hostel accomodation but when you are single mom, the best thing you can do for your family is to connect with other single moms. I was a single mom with two kids in university. There were other single moms in the same dorm. We helped each with childcare, cooking and transportation. We all feel that we couldn't have succeeded without each other.

It isn't necessary for anyone to live in a single family dwelling.