Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:16 PM

Now, Kat, don't go taking me seriously when I'm not being serious...

I don't really have any strong opinions about Steve Irwin. He was probably an allright guy with a gift for self-promotion, I figure. My comments about "death by crocodile" were strictly tongue-in-cheek. If I thought his family were listening in on this conversation (which I doubt), I would not make such jokes, I assure you.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:19 PM

No, Steve won't qualify for a Darwin Award, but there's still hope for you, Clinton. ;-)

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:20 PM

You first... You deserve it more

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,Rev
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:33 PM

I've been listening on the radio to some interviews with shark and ray experts. They say, based on what Irwin's scuba team reported, that the ray didn't "attack" him, but was simply acting in a defensive manner. Irwin was swimming above the animal, trying to get on its back (just like he does with crocs), and the ray flicked his stinger up and it caught him just below the sternum, peircing his heart. It was probably the only place, besides maybe the head, that one could receive a fatal sting frm a stingray. They say that Irwin probably died instantly and felt no pain.

I agree that he was greatly entertaining, and from what I've heard he was a passionate and generous conservationist, and a loving father and husband, and so his loss is very sad. That being said, I also have to agree with those who say it's no shock that he died in such a manner. It's a bit like that documentary "Grizzly Man." If you spend your days imposing yourself on dangerous animals, one of those days the animals are going to lash out at you. And generally, the animal is going to win.
Rev

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Gurney
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:49 PM

According to our news this morning, he was filming with the stingray, and there is footage in police hands.

Crocs and other seriously unpopular creatures have lost another chance to avoid extinction.

I've been scratched with a stingray barb. It isn't 'poison-filled', but poisonous-slime coated, and it really, really hurts.
Stingrays seem quite gentle, but they seem also to react automatically to threats, real or perceived.

Condolences to Terri and the kids.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:56 PM

I will be happy to go first, Clinton, because I think I'm a good deal older than you, going by your various comments here. Seriously, death is just fine by me, whenever it decides to come.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 04:12 PM

From the Darwin Awards web page

"The existence of offspring, though potentially deleterious to the gene pool, does not disqualify a nominee. Children inherit only half of each parent's genetic material and thus have their own chance to survive or snuff themselves. If, for instance, the offspring has inherited the "Play With Combustibles" gene, but also has inherited the "Use Caution When..." gene, then she is a potential innovator and asset to the human race. Therefore, each nominee is judged based on whether or not she has removed her own genes, without consideration to the number of offspring or, in the case of an elderly winner, the likelihood of producing more offspring."

So I guess there's hope for Steve after all....

vote now.... vote often

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 04:24 PM

Thanks, LH, sorry I was being so serious.:-)

Not referring to your comments, LH, but I do think it is unseemly to use an obit thread to slag off on somebody. Accidents happen...can you understand that, Shambles? Jaysus...*shakes head*

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 06:33 PM

Thank goodness his family are unlikely to read this thread.

Rhiannon

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Genie
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 06:48 PM

As I understand it, they're calling it a "freak accident," not because stingrays don't normally sting, but because their venom isn't normally fatal to an adult human.   What Steve was doing at the time of his death was not as foolhardy as some are making it out to be.   (BTW, Marlin Perkins got bitten several times by poisonous snakes and came close to dying from it a couple times.)   
Beekeepers sometimes get fatally stung too.   Experienced drivers get killed in car crashes.
This ray's barb happened to pierce Irwin's rib cage, with the sting going almost directly to the heart, from what I've read.

As the Aussie press release said, he died doing what he loved.   And probably in a less dangerous situation than many he's been in. But people do get struck by lightning, and sometimes a normally nonlethal animal encounter turns lethal.

Sad that his death came at such a young age. He'll be missed.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: pdq
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 06:52 PM

Steve Irwin's dying young is quite sad. With that personality, he would have made a great 'old geezer'.

It was mentioned above that rays are usually at the ocean bottom. That is because they have no air bladder to adjust buoyancy, as do fish. When a shark or ray stops swimming, if starts to sink.

For what it's worth, the ray has no brain as we know it. Just a nerve center. Sharks and rays are extremely primitive animals when you compare them to the normal 'boney fish'. Their relatives go back on Earth (in water, actually) about 1/2 billion years. Almost 'living fossils'. They have no ability to think, only to react to stimuli. The sting ray did not intend to kill, it just reacted.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 07:29 PM

You play with fire you get burnt

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 07:36 PM

For what it's worth, the ray has no brain as we know it.

Perhaps rays may have a lot more brain than many of us who would be silly enough to provoke them.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 08:18 PM

I suppose I'm still over reacting to what I learned about with regard to how they filmed some of the early Disney wildlife films. They were beautiful films to watch. And then I learned that the bear cub nestled next to its mother was a lovely shot facilitated by shooting its mother.

Steve Irwin seemed to care about wildlife even if he took risks in interacting with them to attract the attention of the public.

I am also saddened by his loss but I never admired his entertainment skills.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Sorcha
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 08:41 PM

Yes, I feel for his family, and he died doing what he loved, but his nine lives were up. He was a good guy, a conservationist, but he took (and showed on film) far too many risks. He filmed himself, an EDUCACATED wildlife person doing things no other person should do.

I much prefer to watch Jeff Corwin. He is safer. RIP, Steve, and may his family find peace somewhere.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 08:51 PM

"When engaged in dangerous careers, most people know what the risks are."

Seemingly not in this case. --Shambles

You just don't get it, but that's probably because you have your head so firmly up your own backside. But I guess that's your lot in life. Knowing the risk means knowing you could die from this activity and hoping (calculating?) that you'll be skillful and lucky and survive anyway. Knowing the risk doesn't mean you stop that activity.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 08:59 PM

Thank you Stilly.......perfectly stated.

And btw, Shambolina has no brain as we know it either..........

Spaw

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Joybell
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 10:15 PM

Since we are looking at several sides of a celebrity I feel compelled to add my two bob's worth. Steve Irwin made it known - on TV, that he wanted to punch Bob Brown in the face. Said he (Senator Bob Brown) gave conservationists a bad name. The comment followed Bob Brown's verbal poke at George Bush. Bob Brown is up against far more fearsome foes than poisonous snakes and crocodiles. I resent Steve Irwin's very aggressive comment about a man who is a deeply committed, gentle, tireless worker for the conservation of wildlife.
Joy

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Genie
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 10:40 PM

Shambles, it seems you and others, including some in the drama-hungry media, are assuming that if someone is killed in an activity, that's proof that the activity is especially dangerous.

Steve Irwin did take risks in his work -- as do truck drivers, police officers, construction workers, and people in many other professions. But it seems Irwin's death came at a time when he was engaging in a comparatively safe activity for a naturalist-entertainer-educator who works in the wild.   

From the news report cited above:
"Wildlife experts and doctors say it is extremely unusual for a stingray injury to be fatal. "It's freakish from the standpoint that I've been filming in the Great Barrier Reef. I've filmed stingrays all over the world," Hanna said. "People may think they're an animal that attacks. They're not."

And, as mentioned above, had this ray not stung him in the heart, he probably would not have died from the "attack."

I think this statement Steve made about the dangers of his profession compared to other day to day risks is spot on:
"When [Diane] Sawyer asked him what he feared the most, Irwin's answer wasn't venom or teeth, it was the animal within each of us.

"I'm most afraid of people," Irwin said. "The places where I go, the people factor is just so scary, you know, bad guys running around with guns and stuff. And, of course, the diseases. You know, I love to go with my family, but I can't take them where there's like malaria, typhoid, yellow fever ... "

I drive thousands of miles every year in my work, often in less-than-ideal road conditions. And, yes, I know the risks. But if I end up getting killed some day because an semi loses a wheel and it crashes into my car, I don't think people will say, "Gee, most people in dangerous careers know the risks, but seemingly she didn't."

I think it's kind of ironic that with all the risks Irwin did often take in his work, he seems to have have met his death during one of the less risky endeavors.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 11:03 PM

I figured that the shithouse lawyers on Mudcat would come out on this one.

Of course Irwin was a showman, thank god for that. You need theater to attract attention and get a point across. Some of the greatest activists mastered that and were able to open the eyes and ears of people to various injustices.

To borrow Joy's words - Steve Irwin was a deeply committed, gentle, tireless worker for the convservation of wildlife.   He used his TV money to but land for animal habitats.   He was able to do more good then most, and for that he will be remembered.

Someone mentioned "Grizzlyman". I urge people to check out this film if you have not seen it. While we may judge people like this to be crazy, we also get a glimpse of what makes certain people so committed to their cause.   Sure, sometimes people go over the edge, but instead of a quick condemnation, try finding out why.   You don't have to agree with their work, but try to understand it from a viewpoint other than your own.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 11:06 PM

This is hideous news.

As far as the people who are concerned his behavior might encourage other reckless behavior, they must not know one of his most famous phrases was "Danger, danger danger" and something to the effect of "don't try this at home". He did not try to advocate that untrained people do what he did.

And, as been mentioned, he did die doing what he most loved.

And as pdq, SRS and others have mentioned, his mastery of the entertainment aspects of what he did made him connect with a hell of lot more people than a dry academic approach would have. In this he is in the tradition of Wild Kingdom, etc. --as already noted.

And the more people who are brought into conservation advocacy the better--there sure is enough pressure on the other side--destroying more habitats every day.

A true tragedy--and no occasion for petty sniping at him--some of which I've seen on this thread, of all places.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: lamarca
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 11:22 PM

Big Mick said: Growing up in the 50's and 60's, we used to see the marvelous work done by wildlife videographers that clearly took months of dedication. It clearly sought to not impose on the animals world, but instead to observe. There was not a need for much dramatics, the pureness of the natural world provided it. And, if one were interested, one came to understand how it all works together.

Sorry, Mick, but the 50's and 60's "Nature" films, at least the ones produced by Disney, were atrocious - they used captive animals and created fictitious "real-life" scenes, such as the infamous White Wilderness. In this film, they purchased lemmings captured by Inuit children, jumbled them all together on a turntable device to get good camera angles that made it look like a swarm, then drove them over a cliff to their deaths, forever spawning the Myth of Lemming Suicide (and a good number of funny Les Barker poems). Check it out on my favorite Urban Legend-Busting site, http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/lemmings.htm

It takes years to make really dedicated, thoughtful natural history films like Microcosmos and Winged Migration; something that doesn't appeal to the Roman Circus appetites of typical TV viewers. Why are there so many "Natural History" programs that feature predators? Why is animal vs. animal violence and sex more appealing to the Naked Apes who watch TV than explorations of the intricacies of the ecological web in which we live?

While cable channels such as Animal Planet and Discovery have managed to educate some people, they've also had the drawback of giving false expectations. People will go to Yellowstone and expect the wildlife to be right there, on display, just like it is on TV.

From what I've read on the birding listserve to which I subscribe, Steve Irwin did a lot of valuable conservation work with the money his quirky show produced, and he's to be lauded for that. I just wish that he hadn't had to play to the Animal in us to win interest and empathy for the other living things with whom we have to share a planet.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 11:42 PM

Well said, Lamarca. People not only expect to see critters at Yellowstone, they expect them to be tame, warm, and fuzzy enough to put their children on the backs of bison, etc. to snap pictures.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Genie
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 12:09 AM

Ron, no offense to Grizzlyman, but I'd hardly put Steve Irwin in the same category with him in terms of being naïve about wild animals and acting recklessly.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Joybell
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 12:11 AM

Ron, I'm afraid I maybe didn't put my comment clearly enough - It is Bob Brown who is the gentle, tireless worker for conservation. It is Bob Brown who gives his whole life to the cause. The threat of a punch in the face is not the worst threat made against him, but it's the fact that it was made by someone who was supposed to be on the same side, that offends me.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 12:18 AM

I heard him use the term "endangered" once when talking about an animal in Florida, investigated, and it wasn't endangered at all. Never watched his show after that. Just a shill for the land-grabbing interests. Whether Green Peace or Halliburton steals your land, it still isn't yours at the end of the day. At least he won't be alive to see his kids crammed into cruddy cities once all the land has been "rescued" from the bad humans. What an ironic end.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 01:54 AM

Man. I just went back and read these posts. Are you folks really this naive? The land-grabbing interests of the "conservation" movement are working hand-in-glove with the fascistic corporate govts taking over the world. They tell you a blue-bellied tick needs to be saved in some swamp and 1,000 people are forced to "donate" their land to the govt. Land-grabbing is land-grabbing. Irwin tried his crap in Texas by calling rattlesnakes endangered on one of his bushit programs, and a friend of mine sent him a snake-head belt buckle as a comment. Irwin was a whore to big-money interests. Maybe he was a greenie at some point, but then he crossed over. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing when he said the pestilential rattlesnakes in my state had to be rescued from the evil humans. Irwin got what he deserved. Outsmarted by a fish, too. How can you put any credence in something told to you by a man who was outsmarted by a fish? There is no difference between Irwin helping the Sierra Club steal swampland in Florida and Dick Cheney helping Halliburton steal real estate in New Orleans.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: John O'L
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 02:54 AM

Crikey

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Keef
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 03:09 AM

Last night I watched a rerun of Steve Irwin's interview on the Andrew Denton show. He came across as a genuine decent human being. Not perfect, he never claimed he was. Some things like the baby dangling he regreted because it looked way more dangerous on film than it really was. He was happy to make big money from hugely popular film and television shows and plowed the great majority of that into conservation work. His enthusiasm for politicians like Bush and Howard is something I would have to agree to disagree on. His remark that he felt like punching Bob Brown in the face, was just being honest. That was how he felt. I doubt that Steve Irwin ever did really punch anyone and if he and Bob Brown had ever had a face to face it would only ever have been a verbal stouch and they would have ended up the best of mates.
Remember the old adage...If you can't say something nice, then please don't say anything at all.
Especially in the case of the recently departed.
Onya Steve...top bloke

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 05:02 AM

Knowing the risk means knowing you could die from this activity and hoping (calculating?) that you'll be skillful and lucky and survive anyway. Knowing the risk doesn't mean you stop that activity.

The one with the so-called brain thought this and he is dead. The one with the so-called no-brain - (hopefully) is not.

What may be described as a freakish accident would only apply to a normal diver keeping a respectful distance. Those who have seen his shows will know that is highly unlikely that he was staying a respectful distance from this ray.

His shows encouraged the hypocritical idea that what would be risky move for you at home - would not be so to experts like him - who knew what they were doing....But people tend to see and follow the example of what is done and not listen to such rather weak warnings. The result is to encourage this sort of dangerous and foolish interaction.

And with it, as in this case, the rather inevitable end result for the foolhardy humans but which endangers the wildlife just as much. Any form of human interaction with wild animals like bears for example - will only endanger them.

But the main point is that such examples encourage a disrespectful approach to our wild life. A return to one where a macho male has to be seen to be able to tame and subdue animals.   

I remember a visit to one of the US National Parks where a family were feeding the deer, despite being parked in front of a sign explaining all the very good reasons why this was forbidden. When challenged they replied that if 'they' did not want humans to feed the animals - 'they' should not let humans in to the park.

In these parks it is possible to get really close to large animals like elk, moose and bison. It is possible but not at all advisable. Shows like Steve Irwin's - showing one way but advising another - make it difficult to get this message across.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: John O'L
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 05:12 AM

Well if the message still isn't getting through I don't know what he can try next.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 05:55 AM

Gosh, some of you people are very bitter. It's always sad when someone loses a life, however it happens. And even more sad for the one's being left behind. Can't you give the ranting a rest and go and do something more useful yourselves?

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 08:00 AM

"It's always sad when someone loses a life, however it happens"
Bull! 150,000 people or more die every single day..... Who's got time to care about mostly any of them????

"go and do something more useful yourselves"
That's rich coming from you....

"Last night I watched a rerun"
The best thing about his reruns now, is that all his 'near misses' are all just foreshadowing.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 08:20 AM

Aye - We can't be expected to grieve for all the deaths in the world. I would hope though that when my time comes if anyone has anything nasty to say about me they will at least wait until my family stops grieving. Or celebrating maybe? ;-)

Did someone say earlier if you can't say something possitive don't say anything? Can we try to do that on obituaries at least?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: thehiker
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 08:39 AM

It came as no surprise to me to hear the Steve Irwin had taken one chance too many and paid the ultimate price.That said he was what he was, a showman who tried to use his popularity for the greater good.
I was not a fan of his programmes I found his on screen style irritating and OTT and a bit stage Aussie. He was no doubt loved and will be missed by his wife and kiddies.
Ar Dheis Dé Go Raibh a Anam

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Wolfgang
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 09:01 AM

For those who have never heard of deadly stingray attacks before:

Fenner, P.J., Williamson, J.A., Skinner, R.A.: Fatal and non-fatal stingray envenomation. Med. J. Aust. 151, 621 (1989)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 09:02 AM

Of course it's a sad thing and of course he did a lot of good...

but...


Can't you just hear the stingray crying En Garde!

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 09:17 AM

"He was no doubt loved and will be missed by his wife and kiddies"

Who isn't?

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 09:21 AM

Joy, I don't think you understood me.   The words you used for Bob Brown also applied to Steve Irwin.   If you look hard enough, you will find that there area usually many paths that lead to the same goal.

I'm wondering how many people who have posted here actually watched more than 5 minutes of his shows. I watched quite a bit of his programs with my kids, and I do not recall ever seeing him "feed" animals in the wild. Yes, there were shows that had him in his zoo or one of the habitats he worked with, but I think the message was always to leave animals alone. I recall one show where his young child was running toward a prairie dog burrow and Steve stopped the child with an explanation of why that would be a bad thing.

I viewed his programs as instructional. To blame the idiots who feed deer and wildlife in National Parks on Steve Irwin is ludicrous. I don't buy into statements like that, or that watching violence on TV will turn one into a mass murderer. People still drive and talk on cellphones, or get behind a wheel after having a few drinks. If you are to say that people mimic actions they see on TV, then they would certainly avoid doing dangerous stunts like that. HUMAN nature is to challenge and be self-centered. It is a disgusting habit that not everyone has been able to break.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 10:21 AM

Yes, there were shows that had him in his zoo or one of the habitats he worked with, but I think the message was always to leave animals alone.

What is this based on? Are we watching the same shows? Why then was it called The Crocodile Hunter?

If it was the message to always leave animals alone - he would not have had a show, many animals would have not been stressed to provide cheap TV entertainment and Steve Irwin would still be alive.

And my views of his shows and his value as a conservationist - would be exactly the same as they are now he is dead. I feel the shows had an appeal that was more for thrill seekers and extreme sport enthusiasts and the shows I like best are those where the wild life and their habitat has the starring role - rather than just being used as members of the supporting cast. But as in all things - it is a matter of one's own personal taste.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 10:28 AM

I don't buy into statements like that, or that watching violence on TV will turn one into a mass murderer.

I am not sure that I consider that watching violence on TV will turn anyone into a mass murderer - but that is not what I said.

But many posters here do seem to buy into the idea that Steve Irwin's TV shows were educational in some way - can you?

Or do you consider that none of this TV exposure has any affect on those viewing - one way or the other?

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 10:30 AM

Any form of human interaction with wild animals like bears for example - will only endanger them.

No true. Wolves, and many other species, many of which were at the point of extinction, have been saved due to human interaction.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 10:45 AM

No true. Wolves, and many other species, many of which were at the point of extinction, have been saved due to human interaction.

There is a difference between human intevention and human interaction.

Without human intervention I would have never seen wolves hunting elk in Yellowstone Park and the magnificent sight of a California Condor flying free in the Grand Canyon.   

Human intevention (when done well) enables wild animals to be released into the wild and increases their chances of survival.

Human interaction makes wild animals dependendent on humans (or not wary enough) and places them at risk.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 11:18 AM

"What is this based on? Are we watching the same shows?"

Apparently not!!


"But many posters here do seem to buy into the idea that Steve Irwin's TV shows were educational in some way - can you?"

Absolutely!

"Human interaction makes wild animals dependendent on humans (or not wary enough) and places them at risk."

You are correct. The shows that I have seen had him feeding animals that were in captivity (due to a variety of issues) but I do not recall seeing him feeding animals in the wild. The shows I watched pointed out the danger in that.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: thehiker
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 11:22 AM

"He was no doubt loved and will be missed by his wife and kiddies"

Who isn't?
I couldn't say with absolute authority but I'll have a stab at all the child abusing parents and a high proportion of wife beaters?

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 11:48 AM

You're ALL wrong! Every last one of you! You are sooooo wrong.   Specially Clinton, who should've never been even born. ;-) And I'm prepared to go on and on and on about it interminably telling you all just how wrong you ARE, and pointing out the fallacies in your arguments, and with any luck that will drive this thread into maximum overdrive and keep it near the top for at least 30 more days until we all hate each other's guts...and Steve Irwin will have been to BLAME FOR ALL OF IT in some strange and obscure way!

Or he won't.

But I have to have lunch first, okay?

Hold that thought.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 11:52 AM

One of our nameless guests suggested that the group on this thread is gullible because they support the work of someone who is environmentally focused, and he/she suggests those groups are all corrupt. The naivete is on the part of that guest, for lumping all parties in this lurid dance as the same.

The spectrum of "environmental" organizations (and pseudo-environmental) organizations is vast. About 65 years ago (give or take, I haven't looked it up) Aldo Leopold was a founding member of the Wilderness Society, aimed at preserving wild land for wildlife, but Leopold was also a hunter, and he wouldn't have placed restrictions against hunting on public lands unless there were management reasons (such as scarcity or disease). Many other groups are now in existence, with varying degrees of protections built into their charters (Leopold's group may not have been the first, but it is the example I choose to give.) Then you have entirely NON-environmental groups, that are never-the-less lumped with environmental groups. I have in mind here PETA (People for the "ethical" treatment of animals, quotes are mine) and the Humane Society. Dealing with animals may or may not constitute environmental activity. You should see the scandalous way in which groups like the ASPCA and the Humane Society essentially scare people into making donations. (disclaimer: I donate locally to the Humane Society, not to any national office, in hopes my money stays here and does good for local pets.) And then you have true eco-terrorist groups like Dave Foreman's Earth First, "Monkey Wrenching" with deadly results.

To suggest that one person isn't as environmentally "sound" as another because they disagree with another environmentalist suggests that all environmentalists agree with each other on goals and strategies and work together. Nothing could be further from the case. And the public is largely clueless how to sort these various organizations into their respective categories. I suspect the IRS has a better idea of what these groups are up to than their hired PR/media folks do.

Steve Irwin's work will stand on its own. He was an icon in the field in which he worked, and I think in the long view he is going to be seen as a caretaker of wildlife despite his interactions with it and any disagreements about how to conduct his business.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 11:59 AM

I think that is a very generous assessment, Maggie. But, IMO, it has much truth in it.

Little Hawk ....... I love ya, man.

Mick

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: gnu
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 12:59 PM

I agree totally with LH. I am going for lunch as well.

RIP, Steve.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 01:17 PM

I'm interacting with some pork right now. Polish Kilbasa.