BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammond

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: skipy
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 11:09 AM

It was road speed that put Sir Frank Williams in a wheelchair.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 11:22 AM

Jeez what a load of po faced killjoys we do have around here, a car doing 10mph can kill somebody. You can't uninvent the motor car, and you can't stop people doing dangerous things in them
That is the kind of mentality that would have Mount Everest flattened in case somebody fell off it and got hurt.
When asked why he wanted climb Mount Everest Sir Edmund Hilary reportedly said "Because it's there", well cars are there so get over it!
Another thing to remember is the old saying about guns, 'Guns don't kill people, people kill people' You could apply the same adage to cars!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 11:34 AM

anyone wants to climb everest ??

let 'em. i dont give a **** what personal risks they take up there
as long as they respect the natural mountain environment..


but dangerous assholes driving cars at any speed..??

**** 'em if they get injured or killed !

though the NHS money spent repairing & rehabilitaing them
and getting the ****s fit enough to get back on the road..

i can think of more deserving health spending priorities..

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: JennyO
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 12:00 PM

That is the kind of mentality that would have Mount Everest flattened in case somebody fell off it and got hurt.

That puts me in mind of parts of Denis Kevans's poem "Concreeto" -

"The Mountains are very crooked, very rough job,
Full of cracks, very rough, rough rocks,
Got to fill it up with the concreeto,.....................
........................................................................
Because concreeto is beautiful…it's a beautiful colour grey-ey-ey…nice and smooooth
Nice and square, nice and straight, with the concree-eeto,
So the bushwalkers can walk straight up and straight down,
Saves time walking round the crooked mountains............"

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: Paul Burke
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 12:01 PM

Giok, it's easier to kill people if you've got a gun, or a fast car (in a public place). The actual conditions of Hammond's crash are not the issue; the problem is that Clarkson's attitude encourages people to take risks (self- assessed, and usually ill- assessed) in public places.

Maybe there ought to be subsidised racetrack burnups for drivers who want them, and instead of fining speeding or dangerous drivers, they lose their entitlement to their day out at the fair.

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 12:06 PM

Still I do not think this guy deserves understanding. What comes first in your life, your family or being a smart ass on television. The hospital should bill the producers of the programme. As least this smart ass won't be doing it again.

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 12:07 PM

Morris dancing leads to dangerous acting out in public where innocent people are exposed to assholes.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 12:29 PM

"Maybe there ought to be subsidised racetrack burnups for drivers who want them, and instead of fining speeding or dangerous drivers, they lose their entitlement to their day out at the fair."



Track days


Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 12:57 PM

Actually, there is not a single - I'll repeat that - not a single proven case of an off-roader 4x4, being used for recreational greenlaning on minor highways - ie byways RUPPs UCRs or other unmetalled routes with vehicular rights of way (as distinct from off-road racing or trials, which do NOT use public rights of way) injuring any other user of such routes. Yuppies in Porsche Cayennes in Sainsbury's carpark however - scary!

I have been a petrolhead all my life, and I still think there is a serious case to answer that Top Gear encourages irresponsible driving on public roads. The worst culprit is Clarkson, for example dubbing a particular Ford hot-hatch the "Ford Asbo".

Hammond, too, encouraged queue-jumping at partial road obstructions. He wrote an article in the Mirror newspaper on it. Very antisocial.

And if you saw the piece on caravans on Top Gear you would have seen what a bunch of total idiots they all were (incidentally, people don't queue behind my caravan, usually they have trouble keeping up unless I am obeying a speedlimit which I sometimes do).

I feel sorry for his family, but he wasn't a hero, and it was a risk he knew or ought to have known he was taking.   Even if it turns out not to have been driver error - it was still a risk he knew he was taking.

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: Grab
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 01:21 PM

No but there are plenty of boy racers who do try and drive like that on public roads

Yep, plenty of prats in the world. When you can show me that they're doing that because they've been influenced by F1/touring cars/World Rally/Top Gear/Herbie Goes Bananas, instead of just because they're prats, then you might have a case. Just saying "they drive fast, and Top Gear presenters drive fast, therefore Top Gear is at fault" is clearly bogus.

What comes first in your life, your family or being a smart ass on television.

Ask Neil Armstrong and Michael Collins - two out of three of the first moon-shot astronauts were married with kids. I doubt either of them put "being a smart ass on TV" top of their reasons for doing it. Or if it comes to that, try all the professional stuntmen/women working in films and TV who happen to be married.

I agree with Paul's idea of getting kids to learn about going fast somewhere where they won't damage anyone other than themselves. I think that'd be a great idea - unlikely to happen, but it's a great idea.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 01:27 PM

Train drivers take risks, astronauts take risks, motorcycle couriers take risks, vets take risks, farmers take risks, miners take risks, pilots take risks, hot air balloonists take risks, the military take risks, fishermen take risks, lifebost men take risks...

none of them have a gun to their head making them do it and none of them are wished an untimely death.

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 01:28 PM

Richard Bridge -
The Top Gear caravan feature was a wind-up, and all the mishaps were quite obviously staged. You weren't supposed to take it seriously!

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 01:43 PM

likewise.. prove "top gear" does not contribute to the general malaise..
encouraging a macho culture of selfish and stupidly dangerous
behaviour on public roads..

theres still a genuine case to be argued..

even if some individuals are too obtinately biased to consider it valid..

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: Bernard
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 02:19 PM

The real morons are those who use their vehicles as weapons on public highways, and put innocent bystanders at risk. When one of these types kills someone, often because their judgement was impaired by alcohol or some such, it is rare they are punished adequately for the deed they have done, simply because they 'had no intent to kill'.

I'm afraid there are much worse programmes for glorifying such behaviour on television - I'm thinking particulalry of the 'Real Police Chases' type of voyeurism. It would be interesting to know if any research has been done to examine the effect of such programmes.

No matter what our opinions, Hammond was only putting himself at risk, and seems to have been the unfortunate victim of a tyre failure which can happen to anyone with disastrous consequences. Perhaps he was ill advised in taking the risk... but hindsight is such a wonderful thing!

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 03:03 PM

Interesting comment in a newsreel about the crash, a comment which wasn't followed up. The statement was that the car went out of control after he popped the chute, so driver error may not have been a factor.

It amazes me how many people seem to know exactly who to blame before there is ANY hard evidence on which to base a conclusion.

I wish I was that clever.........Well actually, NO I DON'T!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: Gurney
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 06:15 PM

James May (the non-loony, just eccentric) presenter, has been to see the hamster, and although he is still very ill, he seems to be 'there.'
In Top Gear they do their maddest driving away from public roads, and in cars that boy racers could never afford. I can't remember them ever doing anything exciting in a family car. However, if anyone is expecting political correctness from that programme, don't hold your breath whilst you are waiting.

Her Indoors says that if we were waiting for a lead from the non-adventurous, we would still be in the trees.

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 06:33 PM

why are the the more conservative libertarians here

constantly willfully confusing 'adventurous individualism' with 'stupidly selfish dangerous sociopaths'


i cant see anyone here who says theres anything intrisicaly wrong
with
a spirit of adventure and hedonistic thrill seeking..

just as long as its kept at a safe remove from public roads and town centres

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 06:52 PM

And so long as the loonies pay for the helicopter rescue, and the air ambulance, and the hospital treatment.

It's what they say about smokers and drinkers and the fat, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 03:43 AM

Fans of Richard Hammond have been showing their appreciation of the service they rendered, by making donations to the Yorkshire Air Ambulance Service!
Giok

There ya go!

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 04:31 AM

When you buy a car, you want it to have been tested to its limits for your own safety. When you are given advice about a car, you want the same rigorous and sometimes extreme testing to have preceded it - for your own sake.

When you buy a medicine, you want it to have been tested on (volunteer) humans, for side effects.

To then turn round when things go wrong and accuse such testers or volunteers of being irresponsible seems a tad off to me. They take a calculated risk, supervised by professionals, and all for some gain that inevitably will never outweigh loss of life or permanent damage to their health or well-being.

My hat off to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 05:58 AM

Is that what Hammond was doing?

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 06:05 AM

Indeed, Richard, in my view anyway. Though you might want to argue that the market for jet-powered 300mph cars is rather small ;-) - but the market for his TV programme is bigger.

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: Bernard
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 06:52 AM

Explorers are a breed apart from the rest of us. Without them, the world would be a boring place. They do what we would like to do, and enable us to do it 'by proxy' via media coverage.

Everyone makes mistakes, as the hedgehog said climbing off the scrubbing brush...

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 07:51 AM

According to the Beeb Richard has taken his first steps since the accident on Thursday and has talked and is smiling.

Onwards and upwards Richard!

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 08:14 AM

I liked Clarkson's comment to him: "The reason you're here is because you are a crap driver". I had to smile at that, and the obvious camaraderie that allows him to say it - typical Clarkson. And Hammond of course smiled back. Nevertheless, I wonder how long it will be before someone registers an objection to Clarkson's statement labelling him "insensitive"...Any takers?

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: Firecat
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 11:12 AM

Good news that Hamster is able to walk. I just hope that he recovers quickly. It must be horrible for his wife and kids to have to see him like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: Firecat
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 04:06 PM

Latest update on Hamster (I was reading the Teletext news pages): He's been moved to a general ward.

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 04:22 PM

Great news and what a remarkably 'safe' car. How did he get out of that alive????

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 04:56 PM

Have you seen the cage that the driver sits in?
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: HuwG
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 05:31 PM

Recognising that "Top Gear" has little relevance to everyday motoring, I wish the Hamster well, and am pleased that he seems to be recovering.

Top Gear gnerally restricts itself to playing with toys few people can afford, in exotic locations most humdrum wage-slaves can only dream about (not including Elvington, of course). In my opinion, it does not encourage "boy racers" nor advocate the purchase of unduly expensive, thirsty and obstructive SUV's.

The programme did once take issue with the proliferation of speed cameras, pointing out that a 150 percent increase in revenue from speeding fines could claim statistically to have saved only four lives. (There are of course lies, damned lies and statistics.)

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 05:44 PM

point is though;

neither does Top Gear accept any responsibility
to actively discourage fukwit lethal boy racers

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 06:01 PM

No, that is precisely not the point, GUEST.

To blame any one TV programme - or indeed TV as a whole - for the existence of the "boy racers" is not just wrong; it is extremely simplistic and misguided (& -ing). It may sit well with the prevalent "find someone to blame" culture, of course. But it does not wash parental responsibility away - the prime driver - or that of education or surrounding culture and peer pressure, all much more significant factors in the creation of these so-called "fuckwits".

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 06:38 PM

no sorry george..

did anyone here say top gear is the sole primary causal factor
for these halfwit speedwanks..

nope..

does anyone here even think anything that simplistic or misguided..

again.. nope..



but is it not too much to ask that the producers of an extremely popular BBC light entertainment show

should maybe just take a teensy weensy bit extra responsibility
in attempting to 'guide' and educate these impressionable daft young chaps
who forever lust after faster street racer deathtraps

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 07:13 PM

I think your expectation is unrealistic. The days when the Beeb was educational are largely gone. I wonder (don't know) even if it is stated anywhere in their goals or objectives to educate (though it should). Nowadays it's just another group of ratings-chasing channels, and little more beyond that. So, not too much to ask; but probably too much to expect.

Before the Beeb, others have even higher responsibility to educate; and I fear they don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: Bernard
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 07:29 PM

The wording was changed from 'Educate' to 'Entertain' at the recent licencing review...

The people who manufacture such vehicles for use on the Public Highway have a far greater responsibility, I believe.

No-one can argue that Hammond's 'vehicle' would ever be seen anywhere but on a special track...

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 03:54 AM

George is right in saying that the blame culture is eroding many people's sense of self responsibility, and the tendency to blame irresponsibility and thuggery on an unhappy childhood is laughable.
One side bleats about poor little Johnny who was brought up in poverty with a drunken father, and it's not really his fault that he turned out as he did, and they mentally spread the blame.
Another side blames one person like Maggie Thatcher, for the sins of a whole system of government, which is patently misguided, and possibly just a tad prejudiced.
So it goes with Richard Hammond, he's now being held up by some as epitomising a certain type of antisocial driver behaviour, for making his living on private land with safety and rescue people on standby, he is blamed for yobbos driving stolen cars through council estates! That's some extrapolation!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammonds
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 07:17 AM

A news summary just announced that the amount so far given to the Yorkshire Air Ambulance service following Richard Hammond's accident is £130,000.

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammond
From: GUEST,TV Addict
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 09:16 AM

oh so it was just another grand BBC publicity stunt appeal for charity..

maybe it can become an annual event just like red nose day..


perhaps the audience will be encouraged to vote in mass
on a premium rate phone line

to select next years celebrity they most want to see crash at over 300 mph..


yeah !!!!


Clarkson next..

or maybe Johnathon Ross..


or who's that realy irritating woman on .. errmm you know
that show with all those annoying women..

oh whats her name..???


anyway heres to next years BBC "Celebrity Skid'n'Crash" charity day event..

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammond
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 09:28 AM

Cynical but predictable lapse of taste there.
G

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammond
From: GUEST,Head of BBC Light Entertainment
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 09:35 AM

Please desist in leaking confidential information
regarding future BBC programme schedule highlights.

Thank you.


Btw, vote lines will be open at £1.50 per minute from the end of this week.
Star contestants will be announced very shortly.

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammond
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 10:44 AM

I'm afraid that you'll have to do it on radio, as there is no Head of Light Entertainment on TV only on radio, and he is Paul Schlesinger. Car crashes sort lose their impact on radio don't you think?
So you may be a figment of your own imagination ☺
G ☻

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammond
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 11:12 AM

Boy racers have been around alot longer than cars. People have probably been blaming each other for going too fast since someone first fell off a horse....

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammond
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 12:02 PM

Ben Hur !

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammond
From: Keef
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 05:58 AM

Excuse slight thread power drift. Those er invalid trikes, when I was a lad we used to call them Spastic Carriages/Chariots, with characteristic teenage sensitivity. They looked like they were designed to create disabilities more so than assist with them.
Are there any websites that show anything of the history and performance of these strange conveyances?

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammond
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 06:04 AM

Over £150,00 has now been donated by Hammond fans,the air ambulance charity is considering using it to buy a new helicopter and name it after him. He'll love that!

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammond
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 06:09 AM

BBC news last night said it was over £170,000.

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammond
From: GUEST,Doris
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 06:50 AM

So there we have a stupid bloody programme which is watched by men in their late 40 plus and a few 17 year old dreamers. The 40's plus brigade (who can now afford a 10 year old sports car) see themselves as cool, dispite a thin crown, chest to stomach the same width and a dodgey walk,sorry almost forgot the jeans, minus an ass.

They think this will get the young girls looking at them. The programme is "must see" viewing for this crew. They go down to their local and over a swift half, tell the guys about some sports car well outside of their price range as if it was sitting at their front door.

Then they talk about some second rate presenter, who half the country never heard off until he almost produced a widow, as if he was some kind of hero ! Yeah, Hammond is a great guy, would I or would I not love to get a chance at the wheel of something like that ! Then go into a rant about what he did wrong, as if they knew the pit falls of the accident.

Boys, sadly you only get money in your pocket (for that ten year old Z3)when too many birthdays came first. Settle for a drive to the car wash on a Saturday morning and a look through the car mags, when your wife is in another part of the store getting the weekly shop.

Sad really.

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammond
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 06:57 AM

Doris, what is truly sad is seeing someone using such an opportunity for generalising, grumpy-old-person-ing and venting. My daughter and wife would both disagree with you, because they have enjoyed the programme regularly over the years; and guess what - they look or behave nothing like the descriptions you provided.

In the end, someone was hurt. Whether man or woman, stupid or clever, unknown or famous. Be glad that he is getting better now, and that the charities are £170,000 richer, and leave it at that.

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammond
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 07:27 AM

Doris may I extend my sincere condolences on your loss.
G

Subject: RE: BS: Top Gear's Richard Hammond
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 07:27 AM

And on reaching your century too
G