BS: my Spouse has left with our son!

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 06:33 PM

You can't "detain" your own child. The child didn't even have to go willingly. A parent can "force" their child to go with them. If that were against the law, most of us would have been up before the High Court by now!

As to "prevented the mother from reasonable access to the child"--what on earth are you talking about?

There is no restraining order, no legal separation with sole custody granted to the mother--just what do you suppose the police can do in a circumstance like this?

The claim is the mother left the house first, after arguing with the father. At the time of my email above, it hadn't even been 24 hours, yet everyone here had leapt on a lemming bandwagon suggesting that the father was guilty of all sorts of ridiculousness, based on an anonymous story in an internet chat forum.

What is WRONG with you people? Besides being dangerous and gullible, that is?

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: dianavan
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 06:23 PM

It may not be kidnapping but it seems to me that if you intentionally or recklessly detain someone, its abduction. Whether or not the child went willingly, is another matter. The father has prevented the mother from reasonable access to the child by leaving without notification.

Regardless of how the law views this scenario, the mom must notify the police to protect her son's rights as well as her own. If the husband is as unstable as it appears, she should also warn the police that he could be violent.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: GUEST,6:13 PM Different guest
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 06:23 PM

Oh please. Now we've heard it all.

I'm with 02 Jan 07 - 05:43 PM. This sounds as real as a three dollar bill.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: Mr Yellow
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 06:20 PM

I think a lot has been said here that is good advice - so I wish you good judgement in this. Remember we will still be here for the comforting words.

Two thoughts FWIW 1) you may already be aware of alcohol dementia - temporary amnesia etc - seen after years of booze abuse. 2) It is reasonably well documented that about 7 days after smoking pot there is often an aggresive phase. Though an aquaintance reckoned it was 5, then 12 days in her spouse's case, but maybe he was topping-up after the first kicked-in. Of course this depends on dosage.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: Gizmo
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 06:17 PM

Guest 05.43, you are obviously living in a world which I seriously doubt rings true.

I wish I lived in ypour world guest, but I live in the REAL world.

Bad things happen guest - it is part of life, some people unfortunately are dealt with a much harsher hand than others.

It is at these times the victims of life need help, support, and good friends not criticism and judgements.

Please, if you cannot say anything nice or supportive, don't say anything at all. This is not the place for derogative comments, given the seriousness of the situation that a member of mudcat is needing help and support with.

I applause this member for having the courage to tell us her situation, which must not have been easy for her to do. BTW Anonymous member, PM if you wish.

My thoughts are with you.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: GUEST,Concerned friend
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 06:16 PM

Yes, there is a real world, and yes, this story is part of it. I've talked to a fellow mudcatter who is not a participant but close to the situation and father and son have been located and everyone is now safe.

Your support and care have been very important and i'm sure we will hear from AM when things settle a bit.Your concern has been truely appreciated.
Thank You

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: GUEST,Different guest
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 06:13 PM

From the description being given by Anon Member, the father is a custodial parent, living in the home. No mention has been made of restraining orders, a legal separation, etc.

Hence, this isn't kidnapping even if he does take the child across state lines (no brainer, that one). The father is a custodial parent and has the legal right to take the child into any state they want to, and has been gone for less than 24 hrs with the child after an argument with his wife.

First, if this story is true, people here are guilty of over-reacting and talking through their hats, as they haven't a clue what the legal ramifications of the circumstances are anyway.

Second, anyone who is getting "advice" from an internet chat forum under the circumstance, must be suffering from severe mental illness. Rather than talking with police, perhaps they should consider ringing up a good mental health professional.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: Becca72
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 05:44 PM

Open Mike,
I'd be willing to bet a huge amount of those missing kids have parents who are divorced or are in the process. I have to agree with Kendall on this one. There is no separation and no custody agreement so there is no kidnapping. Right now it is simply a father out somewhere with his son. I'm not saying he's in the right or even that the child is safe because I don't know this person. But legally I don't understand how you can call it kidnapping...

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 05:43 PM

jacqui i save my compassion for bona fide people in a bona fide world. This does not ring true.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: jacqui.c
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 05:40 PM

I used to work for Victim Support and went on training sessions dealing with domestic violence. It is a very complicated situation and there are many reasons why women don't leave an abusive partner after the first attack.

Quite often it is because before the first physical attack they will have been 'kept in line' by the abuser who will have lowered their self esteem in whatever way possible. Many of these women may have come from abusive homes and really have no idea that such behaviour is not normal. Others believe in the sanctity of marriage and that they should do anything to keep the family together. Some just don't know that they have somewhere to go and, maybe in some places, there are no shelters. Trust me, if leaving home means no home and no means of support that can be a very strong inducement for putting up with the abuse.

The last thing that AM needs to hear no is that she is, in some way, to blame for what is happening. The problem is her partners - her need is to take care of her son first and foremost.

A little compassion would go a long way, GUEST 4:38.

Anonymous Member - if you need to talk please PM me. Like the others who have offered I can listen. Take care.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 05:33 PM

I really can't add or subtract anything fro what others have allready offered interms of the law, both criminal and civil, but...

...from the description of your home, I'd say that one or both of you need some serious help.. . And it sounds more like hubby to me... There are hording laws in some states where folks who fell compelled to keep every danged magazine, newspaper and grocery list they ever had and pile them up in big piles around the home with only paths to connect rooms... From what you have said, you have been willing to live with such a person as long as he didn't abuse you... In my thinking, the hording in itself is abuse... Folks, especially those with severe mental problems or personality disorders, can't possibly feel better about themselves in such clutter so...

...here is one piece of advice I can offer... While the more critical situation plays out, use your time box up all the crap and write with a magic marker on the box approximately what is in each box... Then take one roon in your house and pile all the boxes in it and straighten up the rest of the house to suit your tastes...

Okay, so hubby comes home and says, "Awww, shucks, Billy Jean, I was just havin' a bad day and blah, blah, blah and I want to come home."

Then you say: "Okay, Pal, first of all you need to get a recertification from the anger amnagement folks and, BTW, see this house??? Should you complete the anger management piece this is the way ***our*** house is going to look from here out!!! Get it ??? Now go talk with the anger management folks and keep me posted..."

My thinking is that given that hubby has decided to move out for a wahile that gives you some leverage you may of maynot have aver had...

Good luck and play smart...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: open mike
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 05:22 PM

kendall..most of the "missing children" on milk cartons, and other
notices were taken by thier parent or other family member.
http://www.missingkids.com/

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: Gizmo
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 05:13 PM

Anonymous Member,

I truly hope all this gets resolved as quickly as possible, for everyones sake.

I also seriously doubt any court worth their salt would give custody rights without supervision to your husband, due to his mental state of mind.

His aggression may have been even more so triggered by lack of alcohol, if it is as you say, he hides it from his son. Get as much help locally as you can, explain to the police and eveyone you have rung up, that you fear for the both of them, not just your son, therefore if anyone is sheltering them, but may have heard a different story than what you have given, then like any frightened child, or animal, the softly softly approach seems the safest. Even if it is just until you get your son back.

I agree that it would be best to find them asap, I don't want to frighten you any more than your distress now, but on rare occasions it is dangerous to think "my...won't harm...." as a persons mental state cn be unpredictable.

I feel your pain having been in similar DV situation myself with kids involved. Take strength and get as much legal back up as you can. Help is out there, do not be afraid to use it, now is the time to go get.

All my thoughts, and wishes for a speedy positive resolution.

Peace be with you at this time

Nicci.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 05:08 PM

I'd also suggest getting in touch with the police if you still haven't heard anything. You probably want to avoid escalating this, or turningit into a 'big deal', but it IS a big deal. If you haven't already, call the police.

Gather your family and trusted friends close, If you don't have enough real world shoulders to lean on, PM me to talk. I'm not a parent, and I've already given my best advice, but I can sure listen.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 05:07 PM

Slag
I think you overlook what could happen from the spouses point of view and with his son.

He could do anything and as such is a possible danger to himself, his son and his wife. The police need to be involved if only to make sure that the spouse is Ok and even more so his son is safe.

I do agree that the wife needs to get into safe custody and quickly.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 05:06 PM

Slag,

I agree with you on the fact that if this is a true story the person is complicit in the abuse of herself. Anyone who is abused once and doesn't do something about it immediately is a total moron. No excuses whatsoever. I'm so tired of hearing about people who have been abused time after time after time and still stay with the spouse or boyfriend for whatever reason. No, they don't deserve to get abused again (for all those who think I am heartless)but they are definitely responsible for their multiple abuses because they didn't leave the SOB to begin with...or have him/her arrested. As I said, the anonymouse person, who I still don't believe is really in this situation, should look inside hereself to determine how much fault for this situation is hers.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: Slag
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 04:44 PM

Guest 4:38. I believe you're wrong. If it were a "made up" story, so what? The answer is still the same. In my training we'd role play and make up scenarios. In the given situation, the analysis of the relationship must take a back seat to the issue of abuse. If the person does not protect the child then she is complicit in the abuse of the child. Secondarily she is also complicit in the abuse of herself. This is the ONLY issue that should be addressed at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 04:44 PM

A certain member's opening posts came back to me reading this thread. He was the hard done by lone parent left with a five year old daughter by an addict partner? Within days he was the wise cracking member laced with heavy innuendo type.

Which attention seeking member has posted today for the first time in months? I have my suspicions.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 04:38 PM

I truthfully believe that this is a made up story. It takes two to cause a problem like this. If it is true, look inside yourself and try to figure out what part of the blame is yours. None of us are totally innocent in a marriage situation.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 04:13 PM

Physically abusive. Emotionally abusive. Heavy closet drinker. Pot smoker. Severe ADD.

If this man was not your child's father would you report this to the police? Because to do what he did isn't someone acting with their child's interest foremost.

Hope it works out ok for all of you.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: kendall
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 04:12 PM

I know about that situation, but as long as a couple still live together and are not divorced and there is no legal separation, I don't see how kidnapping is possible.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: Slag
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 04:11 PM

Sometimes drama is real and cannot be helped or avoided.

And please: To those of you who have well-meningly posted with suggestions of how to "fix" the problem, please stop. That is only a cosmetic solution. If you only treat the symptoms, the disease still remains,

I have much experience in this area. Trust me. Get to the shelter. Talk with those who know and who have been through this. Don't delay one minute.

Yes the boy is related to the father. The more serious issue of ending the abuse comes first. Courts or counsellors will determine later what the father's relationship will be like. There could even be a chance that the marriage could be saved PROVIDED THAT THE FATHER ACKNOWLEDGES HIS PROBLEM AND ACTIVELY AND WILLINGLY SEEKS PROFESSIONAL HELP!

Again, I urge you, DO NOT DELAY. Do this now.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: Willie-O
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 04:04 PM

Kendall, one kidnaps one's own child by violating the terms of a custody order, specifically removing the child from the custodial or shared-custody parent. It's far and away the most common type of kidnapping I believe. But there has to BE a custody order to make it kidnapping.

Look up the strange and current case of Myriam Bedard for a bizarre example.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 03:20 PM

Don't wait any longer to call the police. They are both missing persons and the police should be looking for them. Your marriage is dead in the water. Do everyone a favor and get a divorce.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: dianavan
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 03:00 PM

I am so sorry that you are going through this. It sounds as if your husband not only has ADD but also has difficulty with impulse control. That can be a very dangerous combination when a person is angry. Its not hard to understand that you have been walking on eggshells and your son is not immune to the lack of problem-solving ability in your family.

Continue to seek support locally. You need a lawyer and both you and your son need counselling. Your son might also benefit from a child advocate to help him express his needs.

Your first responsibility is to provide what is best for your child. If your husband does not have you to abuse, he will, most likely, transfer it to your son. Call the police and seek protection for both you and your son.

Do it now.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: Tinker
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 02:57 PM

Remember there are many of us here to hold all of you in our love while this works out. As you need us, tell us....

Blessings and Light

Tinker

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 02:49 PM

As a parent of an ADHD daughter and Autistic daughter, I would be concerned for your Spouse and his health/self esteem and would definately recommend involving the police if only to find him and your son and make sure they are alright.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: Alba
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 02:08 PM

Anon.
Your are in my thoughts.

Best to keep the Horse in front of the cart for the moment and not jump too far ahead.
A step at a time.
Glad you called the Crisis Centre. Keep calling them if you feel yourself getting too frantic. Support is essential and while we here can only offer you a place to air your feelings, Women's Centre will offer face to face help and good non-judgemental advice.
I would , myself, call the Police. They may be able to help locate them and that would help a lot in putting your mind at rest regarding the safety of your Son and the stability of your Spouse at this time.

Where did they just return from? Is there a chance that Spouse returned there?

Put you first for the time being and talk to anyone that will listen.

May all resolve itself to the higher good of all concerned.
PM if you feel the need to.
Love and Light (at the end of this tunnel)
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: kendall
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 12:21 PM

You said that if he left the state he is guilty of kidnapping. Where did that come from? How does one kidnap one's own child?

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 11:08 AM

It sounds as though your son has already had enough drama and disruption in his life. Time to create a stable and supportive home for him. Good for you for calling the women's centre and making an appointment with an attorney.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 10:56 AM

Good luck to you. A line has been crossed and you and your son need protection. A lawyer and a crisis center and frankly this is not the time to agonize over finances if it keeps you from acting.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: JennyO
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 10:47 AM

You go girl! And please don't wait too much longer before calling the police.

You are going to need strength to get through this. I'll be thinking of you and sending some energy to you from warm and sunny Oz.

It's bedtime here - so I have to leave this thread for now, but I'll be back. Good Luck!

Jenny

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: GUEST,Anonymous Member
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 10:36 AM

Still no word. I am too upset to go to work. I have called the women's crisis center, as many of Spouse's friends as I can think of, and his father. His cell phone is still turned off. Although I am loathe to do so, if I have heard nothing by noon I will go ahead and call the police.

If he has left the state, he is guilty of kidnapping. If he is in state, he has committed no crime, but the police still might get involved to locate him. After that, I don't know. I have an appointment to speak with an attorney, and if I have to call the police, they can probably tell me what some of my options are in terms of protecting myself and my son. I doubt my spouse would respect a restraining order.

I do not want a bunch of drama and disruption in my son's life, but there may not be an option that will prevent that.

M. Ted--go sniff the wind.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: Alice
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 10:11 AM

"Spouse would never forsake the dog" is a telling line.
It sounds like you know he feels stronger about coming back because of how he cares about the dog more than he cares about you.

Please call for help from domestic violence support professionals. This is a situation that can blow up into more violence than what just happened, especially with alcohol and pot contributing to an already dysfunctional relationship.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: JennyO
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 09:58 AM

Well hopefully from your most recent post, you now believe that the line has been crossed. Regardless of your feelings about commitment to the marriage, you also have a commitment to your son, who is bound to be being hurt by this. You have already seen evidence of his having to adapt his behaviour to accommodate the dysfunction of his family. You owe it to your son - and yourself, to have a better life. Get out before any more harm is done!

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: MBSLynne
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 09:39 AM

I assume, since you said in the first post that your husband has severe ADD, that it has at some time been diagnosed? You also say that he has various mental and psychological problems. I would have thought that it would be unlikely that courts would award him custody of a child in view of this. Especially since the child himself does not want to live with his father without you there. Surely they would take that inot account too?

I sympathise strongly with your feelings about commitment etc and often deplore the ease with which some people break up their own homes with the excuse that "It's better for the family to be split rather than the children to live in an unhappy home" Mostly that's a load of rot, but in your case I think it would be valid. It can't do your son any good and certainly isn't doing you any good, to stay in that situation. You have to get out.

Good luck and let us know how it goes

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: jacqui.c
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 08:00 AM

So far as your son is concerned, at his age it is likely that the court will take into consideration his own preferences when deciding on custody. If he makes it clear that he does not feel happy about spending time alone with his father that may influence the court decision.

I would agree that you need to contact the police or a women's crisi centre, or both. Get documented that fact that your husband removed the boy from your home in this way. That may tell against him in any proceedings that might follow.

The best of luck to you. I hope that things work out.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: kendall
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 07:58 AM

Try to keep in mind the fact that the boy is HIS child too. I know that's difficult for a Mother to do, but it will help to ease your mind. It's not like he kidnapped the boy.
I don't know what state you live in, but you may want to consider that if the boy lives with his father, you could end up paying child support.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: eddie1
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 07:02 AM

Hi Anonymous Member.

My thoughts are with you.
IMHO, so far, you have been offered a lot of good advice, some not so good and some totally unhelpful. From experience in working with women in a similar situation to yourself, I would agree with the suggestion of getting in touch with a Women's Centre. You need someone in realspace who will offer unconditional support and give you the chance to sit back and take a breath. They will no doubt suggest an appropriate legal contact. Whatever you want/hope for the future it's not too early to look at that kind of help.
I would also suggest that now, while everything is still fresh in your memory, you try to write everything down with times, dates etc. Be as objective and factual as you can. This info can/could be very important in the future when it can be very difficult to remember what happened when.
The BIG thing to bear in mind is, this guy has a problem, not you. You are not his nurse and from what you say, you have made all the allowances one can reasonably be expected to make.
Good Luck and may your god bless you.

Eddie

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: fat B****rd
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 05:17 AM

I wish I'd something useful to add but the previous posters have just about said it all. My best regards for a quick end to your unhappiness. Charlie.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 05:01 AM

Listen to the advice on here from Susan, Kat and others and act on it - this is a real-world problem that cannot be resolved here. You MUST contact the appropriate agencies for your own safety and that of your son.
Don't procrastinate, prevaricate or dither - JUST DO IT!

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 03:20 AM

Maybe if you had a place witha granny flat, that could be the business place. or a large shed. he sounds like a man in need of a shed, and you need the home back.

best wishes with sorting it out

al

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: JennyO
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 03:13 AM

Wise words, Slag. Listen to his advice Anonymous Member and don't fall into the trap of minimizing the importance of this. It is a very easy trap for an abuse victim to fall into. I know - I've been there. Looking back now, I am horrified at the things I managed to rationalise, telling myself it wasn't so bad. It was. It took a broken jaw and a lot of other things before I got the message.

Care enough about yourself and your son to take action. Children bear the scars of these experiences too. Even without taking into account the physical abuse, I found the worst scars that I and my children suffered were on the inside.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: JennyO
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 03:03 AM

Are you serious, M.Ted? It sounds to me like she has been bending over backwards for years making allowances for his problems, dusting around the piles and trying to keep the household together as best she could.

She said she was trying to carve out a little space for herself to work in. She said she carefully kept the piles in the same order, put each pile into a box and labelled it. It sounds to me like she was keeping his possible reaction very much in mind and trying to ensure that he would still be able to find his paperwork, but he didn't give her a chance to explain what she had done before going off on his tantrum.

She probably thought she had done it in such a way that there would be no adverse reaction from him. Why would she invite such an attack? And do you seriously excuse his behaviour because of his condition?

I'm sorry, but how much do you expect one person to "walk on eggshells" around another one before they decide they want a little bit of something for themselves? She is a human being too, and has a right to some happiness. It sounds to me like it is long overdue.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: Slag
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 02:51 AM

Yes, this situatuion is fraught with very real danger and it certainly is not an environment for your son. Please consult your nearest Abused Women's shelter. You are going to need a lot of support and informed advice. Your husband's problems can only be solved by him. You are not responsible for his emotional or mental state. Get you and your son to safety. The shelter can get you pointed in the right direction for legal and other services. Don't talk yourself out of it. Don't make believe it will get better. Don't be a statistic. God bless and get to moving on this.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: M.Ted
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 02:22 AM

Knowing that he has cognitive impairments, that he struggles to keep his work and affairs together, and that he barely manages, even at that, you had to know that he would be devastated by the disruption that your "cleaning up" would cause.

You have to ask yourself, very seriously, why you chose to do it, and what you expected would happen--

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: GUEST,Anonymous Member
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 02:18 AM

I have talked with a lawyer, but it has been a few years. It is probably worth doing so again. I didn't think of the women's crisis center. That sounds like a really good idea.

I feel like a line has been crossed tonight from which there is no going back, even if they are sitting here when I get home from work tomorrow. My emotional attachment to Spouse has just been a thin thread for a long time. The challenges around custody of our child has certainly held me in the marriage, but not that alone. My values around commitment, obligation and responsibility are deeply ingrained (programmed from the cradle, so to speak) and kept me in the marriage for many years before we had a child (who was not planned, by the way--I had been told several years earlier that I was infertile.) I remember telling a therapist once that the misery of staying was more tolerable than the guilt of violating the commitment I had made when I married.

But tonight changes things. The resumption of physical agression, the utter disregard for either me or our son expressed by this dissapearing act--my well release me from that commitment. There have been many times when what I most wanted to do was grab the child and run. But I knew that wasn't the right thing to do. That it was a childish, selfish and cowardly thing to do. I knew that in my particular circumstance it wasn't a necessary thing to do.

And he knows that too. Or he damn well should.

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: skarpi
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 01:38 AM

I agree with Susan and kat , go to local Police and get some help
from the woman center :>) you feel better. At least you can talk to someone .

All the best Skarpi Iceland

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 01:21 AM

Talk to a lawyer and start documenting as much as possible. Get yourself and son into counseling, and dad, too, if he is willing.

If they aren't back by morning, I would not hesitate to call the police and also a women's crisis center. They would have much information and contacts with which to help in such a situation; in fact, I'd call a women's center now, if there is one available. Susan is right; get local, in-the-flesh help asap.

With all good wishes,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: my Spouse has left with our son!
From: GUEST,Anonymous Member
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 01:10 AM

The dog is still here. Now that I am thinking a bit more clearly, I know that means they will be back. Spouse would never forsake the dog. My guess is he will wait until I have left for work. I'm going to wrap up my cell phone and put where I know my son will find it when he gets home in the morning with a note for him to call me when he can do so privately.

He loves us both, but prefers my company, simply because I am much more even. Spouse, as is clear, is emotionally violatile, though he is more violatile with me than he is with our child. I try hard to maintain some equamity, to protect our son as best I can, and to give him the tools he needs to try to cope with what I know is a lousy situation for a kid.

I do have plans to leave, but it is a 'techy' thing. I am the primary wage earner. Under the domestic laws in my State, that would have given Spouse a significant legal edge custody-wise when our son was younger, since Spouse has been the primary caregiver. Working at home has made him a stay-at-home Dad. His business also has never paid for itself. (Not to say he doesn't work very, very hard at it.) He has enough mental and emotional problems that I don't think he is capable of working as an employee for someone, or of exercising the judgement needed to make money in his business.) We have a very modest income, and I could not support two households.

Now that our son is older, it is likely we would be awarded 50-50 custody. There have been times when my son has asked about he and I leaving, but he would rather me not leave his Dad if it meant he would have to live with his Dad, or spend 50% of his time living with his Dad without me there as a buffer. I want to make clear that these are conversation that are always initiated by my son, and not by me.

Spouse hides his problems very well from the outside world, and I have collaborated and enabled in that to a significant degree. From my work, I am familiar with what goes on in divorce courts and custody battles. The bottom line is children are dealt with in terms of property rights. In the absence of well-documented physical abuse and/or publicly known substance abuse, I would be very surprised if I were awarded full physical custody.