UK Govt to spend Ł10 million on singing

Subject: UK Govt to spend Ł10 million on singing
From: GUEST,The Stage Damager
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 07:50 AM

"A £10m package of measures to boost singing and music education in primary schools in England is to be announced. The extra cash will allow choir schools to work in partnership with other local schools and fund a national singing campaign."

BBC Story

While I wholeheartedly approve of music and singing in schools, this sort of state sponsorship of music fills me with apprehension. How long will it be before we have a national curriculum for music which will seek avoid any "politically incorrect" or "politically embarrassing" songs.

Surely the whole point of singing is that you sing the songs that you and your mates want to sing, and these constantly changes as you hear new songs, or as your attitudes change?   

SM

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend £10 million on singing
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 08:19 AM

I had a similar concern when I heards one of the products is going to be a "National Songbook". Could be great, could be appalling!

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend £10 million on singing
From: Rasener
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 08:23 AM

No doubt they will want them to learn by signing them up to Learn Direct - one of the worst forms of teaching.

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend £10 million on singing
From: JulieF
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 08:24 AM

I don't see any problems with this , especially as it is an area that has been pushed out by other priorities.   Some of my main memories from primary school are the singing together radio programmes.
As for singing what you wanted to sing - don't remember that every being the case in class excepct on very rare occasions or when you got to choose from a selection. Even without a national curriculum schools will avoid problematic songs - however you define them and I have no doubt that there will be issues but that is all out weighed by giving kids the opportunity to sing at a point when most of them genuinely enjoy it.

nice to see Howard Goodall involved

J

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend £10 million on singing
From: Grab
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 08:58 AM

How long will it be before we have a national curriculum for music which will seek avoid any "politically incorrect" or "politically embarrassing" songs.

Too late. C# and his mates got there ahead of them - pretty much everything ever written down is already bowdlerised.

Surely the whole point of singing is that you sing the songs that you and your mates want to sing, and these constantly changes as you hear new songs, or as your attitudes change?

Not when you're a kid. When you're a kid, you learn from what other people teach you, and if the grown-ups sing then you sing the same thing.

It's great that they're doing this. Even if it's only a small cross-section of British folk-songs (which is all they'll manage), it's got to be better than nothing.

Graham.

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend £10 million on singing
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 09:03 AM

'But the Liberal Democrats' culture spokesperson, Paul Holmes, said that only 13% of children at primary school are learning a musical instrument.

"Teaching children to sing must not simply be a cheaper alternative to fulfilling the government's promise of giving every child the opportunity to learn an instrument," said Mr Holmes.'


IMHO, Teaching children to sing is, in this context, probably a cheaper alternative to giving every child the opportunity to learn an instrument. I wonder how much music theory wll be involved?

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend Ł10 million on singing
From: gnomad
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 09:06 AM

I reckon that is about £2 per pupil, and wonder whether the money is ring-fenced at all. Deduct admin costs, is this a one-off or an annual amount... anyone else think this is just a window dressing exercise?

I like the idea though, and I too have fond memories of "Singing Together".

Singing the songs you and your mates choose is important, but many pupils will not hear new songs, and not all the others will hear the same new songs. A new songbook for all may offer a degree of coherence to the mixture. I would favour some time devoted to communal stuff [one or more books involved] with other time assigned to a more free-range "sing your choice" approach.

As for the PC mob taking control fear not, the rot is already far more deep-seated than mere national directives could make it.

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend £10 million on singing
From: Rasener
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 09:15 AM

We have to pay for our daughter to learn an instrument at school (private lessons) and its bloody expensive.
We also pay for her to sing in a choir in the evening, by a very good teacher who is a musician and also very intuitive and brilliant at getting them to sing. They even sang at my folk club the one time. She is not restricted by all the politically correct crap and lesson plans etc.

Before anybody thinks we must be well off - we ain't. I don't work and we just about survive on my wifes income. However we feel that our Autistic daughter is entitled to do something she really likes in an environment that suits her, rather than what the Government dictates.

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend £10 million on singing
From: skipy
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 09:33 AM

Well Ba Ba black sheep is out for a start.
Skipy

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend £10 million on singing
From: skipy
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 09:34 AM

So lets make a list of 30 songs and send it to them, start listing:-

Skipy

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend £10 million on singing
From: GUEST,The Stage Damager
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 09:46 AM

I perhaps think I'm just bloody annoyed that initiatives of this type are required at all, it should just be happening.

I seem to remember at school we sung stuff like "Men of Harlech", "The British Grenadiers".   At home it was more Woody Guthrie, and a few Irish or Scottish folk songs. I think I was well in my teens before I discovered there were actually English folk songs as well, and all rather different from that stuff we sang at Scouts.

SM

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend £10 million on singing
From: Alba
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 09:55 AM

Oh yes Villian...Learn Direct...aghhhhh!

Also I totally agree SM: "I perhaps think I'm just bloody annoyed that initiatives of this type are required at all, it should just be happening.

Sometimes, imo, nothing is the better way to go than accepting something well below standard.

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend £10 million on singing
From: Rasener
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 10:31 AM

Anything the Government does is well below standard.

Alba, I used to be the tutor at a Learn Direct Centre and in all honesty it was as bad as selling double glazing. I had to lie through my teach to encourage people to join up. One day the network went down and I had a group who were all doing similar things. So I decided to teach them about file management and show them the inside of a computer so they could understand how a computer worked. We could still use the machines stand alone. In 2 hours they learnt and understood more than they had learnt in ten weeks at the centre. In all honesty, most people got very frustrated with sitting there listening to the computer talking to them and then controlling what they could do.

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend Ł10 million on singing
From: Betsy
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 10:32 AM

Great idea, as a 7 year old ,I can still remember being made to sing
" With her one eye on the pot and the other up the chimney, with a Bow Wow Wow,Fal lal a Rolla diddy , Bow Wow Wow !!!!
Jeez they don't write 'em like that anymore. The next one was Sally Gardens , that was difficult, and we didn't really know what the words were all about. Still, happy memories and a great foundation for enjoying words and music which I still do.
I hope they don't waste the money on ..............Oop... I think I'll keep quiet at that point .

Cheers

Betsy

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend Ł10 million on singing
From: sian, west wales
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 10:39 AM

The comment about instrumental music is actually the key to this. I was told about this proposal a few months back (and expected the announcement next month) in the context of the Olympics. It's part and parcel of the Treasurey trying to fund the Olympics and cutting out 'expensive' instrumental music - just one 'saving' they expect Education to make. I imagine we can expect quite a few more ...

sian

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend £10 million on singing
From: Scrump
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 10:45 AM

What was that song, Betsy? ("one eye on the pot..." etc.) I can remember it too, but I'm b*gg*red if I can remember what it was called.

I remember singing stuff like Hearts of Oak, Men of Harlech, British Grenadiers, Yankee Doodle, Oh Susannah, Swanee River, Camptown Races, and many more. I suspect most of that lot would be anathema to the PC brigade.

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend £10 million on singing
From: Leadfingers
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 10:47 AM

The Make or Break thing will be the teachers ! I managed to get to four good secondary schools , and only one had a school orchestra , and I only ever met one good music teacher , who mostly used the Oxford Song book - As long as we did sufficient of The Ash Grove or Where Ere You Walk , we could then spend the rest of the lesson on
Twas in the Broad Atlantic , or Right Little Tight Little Island .
When a teacher sits thirty 13 year old lads down and plays a Symphony
with NO explanation , just "This is GOOD music ! Sit and listen and enjoy it!" that is a waste of EVERYones time .

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend £10 million on singing
From: Michael
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 11:11 AM

Betsy - It was called somthing like 'The Drummer & The Cook'
It had the line:-'said the drummer to the cookie you're the girl that I adore, with your one eye-----'. They don't write them like that anymore!! Thank god.
Actually, come to think of it, they do, ah well!

Mike

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend £10 million on singing
From: NormanD
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 11:24 AM

As far as I understand it, the money that's being put into primary schools music teaching is being taken away from secondary schools. So, the various secondary schools that were encouraged / obliged to develop a "specialist" focus to become some kind of "centre of excellence" (eg in music or performing arts) will now be back at the beginning.

What's the point of encouraging music and performance at a younger age if it can't be supported in the education system as the kids get older?

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend Ł10 million on singing
From: Betsy
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 11:28 AM

Well done Mike - I also forgot to say it spawned my enjoyment of a story in a song.
(I've just checked and the words are in Mudcat's Lyrics – unbelievable !)
I was having a pint with VG and asked him (for a laugh) did he remember the song about the Cook with the wobbly eye. He broke into the chorus immediately. Such songs at an early age are great - they show you how to use words, help with your memory and I'm sure there are many other benefits which we cannot directly quantify /identify.
Cheers

Betsy

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend £10 million on singing
From: Willa
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 11:37 AM

Betsy here it is (sang it with a choir just recently)http://www.thejohnsongirls.com/DrummerandtheCook.htm

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend £10 million on singing
From: Willa
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 11:44 AM

Sorry, Betsy - didn't check it careully enough. Only the first verse is correct, but it is called The Drummer and The Cook.

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend Ł10 million on singing
From: Betsy
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 12:09 PM

Cheers Willa - happy days !!!!!

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend Ł10 million on singing
From: sian, west wales
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 01:25 PM

The actual Press Release from the government is here.

sian

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend Ł10 million on singing
From: Tootler
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 06:25 PM

The cynic in me says this is yet another bit of government spin.

They move a bit of money round to make it look as if they are doing something while not actually doing anything.

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend £10 million on singing
From: BanjoRay
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 07:53 PM

Do school concerts have to have a public entertainment licence?
Ray

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend £10 million on singing
From: Essex Girl
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 08:33 AM

Why do junior need so much money? We sung in primary school as part of the normal lessons, then we learnt the recorder which our parents had to buy.At secondary school (comprehensive) we had a purpose built music room with a large variety of instruments which we were encouraged to try. We also had music appreciation. Our school boasted an excellent brass band and an award winning choir. Is it a case of the teachers not wanting to sing in front of their pupils or not knowing any songs apart from the commercial crap that dominates our airwaves?

Subject: RE: UK Govt to spend £10 million on singing
From: Scrump
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 08:43 AM

Interesting that the government did what it could to kill off live music, and now seems to be trying to revive it.

When will they stop trying to run the people instead of the country (as I heard someone say)?