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Chord Req: Willy o' Winsbury (from Pentangle)

DigiTrad:
ARBUTUS
THOMAS OF WINESBURY
WILLIE O' WINSBURY
YOUNG BARBOUR


Related threads:
Chords Req: Willie o' Winsbury (17)
Lyr Add: Willie o' Winesberry (5)
(origins) Origins: Willie O Winsbury (Child #100) (37)
willie of the winesbury (35)
Chord Req: Willie of Windsbury (8)
Lyr/Tune/Chords Req: John Barbour (9)
Lyr Req: The Arbutus (Paddy Graber) (45)
Seattle - Paddy Graber on radio (4)
Paddy Graber - a new CD (19)
Tom Barbary (8)
Lyr Req: Daughter Janet? / Willie o' Winsbury (12)


GUEST,Jacob 13 Feb 07 - 02:17 PM
Scrump 13 Feb 07 - 02:36 PM
GUEST,Jacob 13 Feb 07 - 03:36 PM
The Borchester Echo 13 Feb 07 - 04:15 PM
The Borchester Echo 14 Feb 07 - 05:03 AM
GUEST,Johnmc 14 Feb 07 - 07:59 AM
Scrump 14 Feb 07 - 08:14 AM
The Borchester Echo 14 Feb 07 - 08:25 AM
pavane 14 Feb 07 - 09:08 AM
Scrump 14 Feb 07 - 09:14 AM
The Borchester Echo 14 Feb 07 - 09:27 AM
Scrump 14 Feb 07 - 11:57 AM
mrdux 14 Feb 07 - 01:20 PM
GUEST,Brian Peters 14 Feb 07 - 02:05 PM
The Borchester Echo 14 Feb 07 - 02:30 PM
Mary Humphreys 14 Feb 07 - 04:12 PM
The Borchester Echo 14 Feb 07 - 04:41 PM
GUEST,Brian Peters 15 Feb 07 - 07:57 AM
Mary Humphreys 16 Feb 07 - 08:59 AM
GUEST,Brian Peters 16 Feb 07 - 09:47 AM
Scrump 16 Feb 07 - 10:40 AM
Scrump 16 Feb 07 - 10:44 AM
Bee 16 Feb 07 - 12:47 PM
NormanD 16 Feb 07 - 01:50 PM
Malcolm Douglas 16 Feb 07 - 02:01 PM
GUEST,Peter D 25 Feb 07 - 10:43 PM
GUEST,George 04 Dec 07 - 04:46 AM
GUEST,Jon 04 Dec 07 - 07:04 AM
The Borchester Echo 04 Dec 07 - 07:29 AM
GUEST,Kylock 11 Mar 08 - 01:31 PM
Lowden Jameswright 11 Mar 08 - 07:09 PM
GUEST,Keith Bates 28 Sep 09 - 04:51 PM
GUEST,Keith Bates 28 Sep 09 - 05:19 PM
The Sandman 28 Sep 09 - 06:25 PM
GUEST,Millindale 28 Sep 09 - 06:57 PM
JanH 24 Jun 12 - 11:37 AM
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Subject: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: GUEST,Jacob
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 02:17 PM

Anyone know? I'm only just learning the guitar and adore this song, I found some chords on another site, but they didn't seem accurate, any help would be lovely.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 02:36 PM

I don't have their version - is it the same tune as the Sweeney's Men one (aka "Fause Foodrage"), or the 'correct' tune?


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentang
From: GUEST,Jacob
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 03:36 PM

I'm afraid I don't know, for I haven't heard the version you mention, I'm fairly certain it's not the one here,

Dick Gaughan's Willie O'Winsbury

At least it doesn't sound like it when I play it. It may be the same as the one you mentioned.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 04:15 PM

Pentangle did this version of Child #100 on Solomons Seal roughly to the Fause Foodrage tune (famously misappropriated by Andy Irvine) MIDI as did DG. I really love Dick's story of doing it to a roomful of Merseyside dockers who, when he got to Willie telling the father what he could do with the wealth he was trying to bribe Willie with to marry his daughter cos he had quite enough of his own already, thankuvmuch, got up and cheered.

But most of all I have two favourite versions: Nic Jones William Of Winesbury and Jim Eldon High Castle Wall, basically similar as far as tune and lyrics are concerned but treated very differently.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 05:03 AM

Looking back, I found what Malcolm Douglas had to say about how Dick G arrived at the tune variant he uses:

On revisiting it, the tune Dick Gaughan uses is much further removed from Foodrage than I'd remembered. Gaughan himself (I think this was mentioned in one of the other threads on this song) didn't recall where he got the tune: it sounds to me rather as if he started out with the tune in Child and subsequently mixed it up with bits of Foodrage.

Child's example was from William MacMath, learned from his aunt, Jane Webster, September 13 1886; she had learned it some 50 years previously from a Samuel Galloway in Kirkcudbrightshire. That was the tune that Andy Irvine had intended to use, though of course it didn't belong with his text, which was mostly Child's example A, anglicised and with some alterations and borrowings from other versions. The hero's name in the MacMath MS was John Barborough; in most English and Irish forms of the song he is John or Tom Barber.


The only performer I have ever heard doing Foodrage (Child 89) to the 'right' tune is Brian Peters. It's in mixolydian mode but is often squashed into the minor (by those doing Willie o' Winsbury) which sounds a bit off.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: GUEST,Johnmc
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 07:59 AM

If you hear the Sweeney's Men and decide you want it, I'll supply the chords I have.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: Scrump
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 08:14 AM

Was "Fause Foodrage" written by Gordon Ramsay?

... I'll get me coat.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 08:25 AM

Funny that. I always suspected it was written by that mate of Andy Irvine, Humphrey Weightman, who used to be in Mr Fox and went on to run a Dublin restaurant.

Getting my coat too. Past time I went out.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: pavane
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 09:08 AM

So which of the tunes is it for Fairport's "Farewell, Farewell"?


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: Scrump
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 09:14 AM

"Farewell, Farewell" uses the "Fause Foodrage" tune.

I always assumed Richard Thompson got it from the Sweeney's Men version (since Andy Irvine, then of Sweeney's Men was responsible for the error that led to the confusion).

It seems a happy accident, as I can't imagine Farewell, Farewell sung to any other tune.

Has anyone established which tune was used for the Pentangle version, as requested by the OP? I've never heard their version and don't even know which album it's on (assuming it was issued on an album).


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 09:27 AM

Pentangle recorded it on Solomons Seal using the Foodrage tune. I put a link to the MIDI above yesterday. And there was another thread about Farewell, Farewell recently. That Andy Irvine is responsible for an awful lot.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: Scrump
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 11:57 AM

Oops. Sorry countess - so you did. I missed that posting, or forgot it. Apologies.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentang
From: mrdux
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 01:20 PM

i learned Willy o'Winsbury -- to the same tune as in the Countess' MIDI file -- from John Renbourn's "Faro Annie" album.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 02:05 PM

"The only performer I have ever heard doing Foodrage (Child 89) to the 'right' tune is Brian Peters."

Sorry Countess, but I don't sing Foodrage to the 'right' tune, however you choose to define 'right'. When I realised that the tune printed in Child was the one familiar from 'Farewell, Farewell' and 'Willie O. W.', I decided it was (a) too cliched and (b) too pretty for a tale as epic as Foodrage, so instead I set it to the tune of 'Lord Gregory' which seemed to me to hold more of the necessary gravitas.

The only other person I've heard sing Foodrage is Chris Coe, and she didn't seem to be using the 'right' tune either.

I have however, been known to sing a version of "Willie O' Winesbury" from Newfoundland, which is called "John Barbour" and has a really nice tune all of its own.   Aren't those variants fascinating?


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 02:30 PM

Sorry, Brian! I just thought your Foodrage sounded 'right'! The way Chris Coe does it, however, is to a tune she got from Dave Hunt. Both are fine versions.

As for John Barbour, I haven't heard you do that yet but the one I know is collected from Mrs Charlotte Decker of Parson's Pond and published in Songs From Newfoundland Outports 1965. That the one?


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentang
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 04:12 PM

Does nobody else sing it to the jolly tune Cecil Sharp collected from Mr George of Bridgewater in 1906? It carries the song very well, but it is in the major mode, rather than myxolydian.
Mary Humphreys


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 04:41 PM

Looks like No 5 or 6 here:
VWML online
which could well be what Jim Eldon does. I'll check it @ C# on Friday.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 07:57 AM

"As for John Barbour, I haven't heard you do that yet but the one I know is collected from Mrs Charlotte Decker of Parson's Pond and published in Songs From Newfoundland Outports 1965. That the one?"

Yikes, Countess, you put me to shame. It was indeed from that book (Peacock, yes?), but it was a borrowed copy and I scrawled down the words without bothering to record the source. I wouldn't be so careless these days..... actually these days I'd probably do like Mary and find an English version. But the Newfie one is lovely nonetheless.

Glad Foodrage sounded 'right'. 'Sounding right' can sometimes trump 'being right', in my book.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentang
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 08:59 AM

Yes Countess, It is the Mr Gordge of Bridgewater version - I mis-spelt it earlier, and may well have done so again!
I haven't heard Jim Eldon's singing for years, so must reacquaint myself with it. Looks like we have similar interests.
And Brian, when you get a good tune it would be a real pity to let it stay in a book. Get it out and sing it is what I say. I would never have done "Pride of the Season" if I had worried about it not being English. The Peacock collection is a wonderful resource for great songs and all the better for now being on CD-Rom with recordings of original source singers.
Mary


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 09:47 AM

Really? Where can I get hold of the CD, Mary?


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: Scrump
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 10:40 AM

It is the Mr Gordge of Bridgewater version - I mis-spelt it earlier

Pity you didn't spell Bridgwater properly too, Mary :-)

...I'll get me coat.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: Scrump
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 10:44 AM

This is all very interesting, but I expect the OP must be tearing his hair out by now (assuming he had any to styart with of course). Would anyone like to give him the chords?

I would, but I've lost track of what tune it is.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: Bee
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 12:47 PM

I was about to make much the same comment, Scrump, but was laughing too hard to type. ;-D


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentang
From: NormanD
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 01:50 PM

Are we talking of the song that Anne Briggs sang? I'm familiar with hers but not most of the others mentioned above. Which of the tunes did she use?

Norman


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 02:01 PM

1. Yes. See the other threads indicated above.
2. The one she learned from Andy Irvine via Johnny Moynihan (again, see previous discussions).


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: GUEST,Peter D
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 10:43 PM

The (midi) tune is beautifully haunting, a nice old modal tune, and seems to suit this song so much better than the major-key version collected by Cecil Sharp. With a modal tune, guitar chords can be "boring". A nice result, though, from a dulcimer (tuned DAD) using the E minor chord to start with.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: GUEST,George
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 04:46 AM

Willy O'Winsbury is a traditional piece from the 16th/17th century. the version you refer to was done by John Renbourne (former Pentangle ) and can be heard on the album Faro Anne.
He has arranged this peace in finger style, where the accompaning play has realy nothing to do with the melody of the song. It is medium difficult to play and can be accompanied by cords and a second voicing mostly comprising from single notes.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 07:04 AM

Jacob....
Try this....I'm working from memory without guitar to hand....

Intro in (C) then.....

The (F)king had (C)been a priso(G)ner
And a (F)prisoner long in Spain
And (C)Willie (Em)of the (Am)Winsbury
Has lain (G)long with his daughter at (F)home

Then end with a change to (C) after last verse

Hope it helps
Jon


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy O'Winsbury as done by Pentangle?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 07:29 AM

Or else:

The (C) king has been a (Dm) poor prison (G) er
A (C) prisoner (F) lang in (C) Spain
And (C) Willie (Am) o (Dm) Winsbur (G) y
Has lain (C) lang with his (G) dochter at (F) hame.

Though I imagine (10 months on) that the OP has nicked another tune from another page of Bronson by now.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy o' Winsbury (from Pentangle)
From: GUEST,Kylock
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 01:31 PM

Have you seen or heard Great Big Sea's song John Barbour? It's based on the Willie version but a sea farers side of thing.

http://www.greatbigsea.com/themusic/sb.aspx

http://www.911tabs.com/link/?1416491


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy o' Winsbury (from Pentangle)
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 07:09 PM

Based on Renbourne's version, but with the gorgeous fiddle of John "Squigsy" Squires, my favourite is that of Leonard & Squires; a pity they don't sing it anymore.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy o' Winsbury (from Pentangle)
From: GUEST,Keith Bates
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 04:51 PM

Em          C          G         D
The king has been a prisoner,
          Am                       
And a prisoner long in Spain,
       G       Em    Em7    G
And Willie o the Winsbury
               C                     Bm7             C
Has lain long with his daughter at home.
         Em                      C                   G             D
What ails thee, What ails thee my daughter Janet,
                Am
Why you look so pale and wan?
    G               Em       Em7       G
O have you had any sore sickness,
      C             Bm7               C
Or yet been sleeping with a man?


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy o' Winsbury (from Pentangle)
From: GUEST,Keith Bates
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 05:19 PM

I think those are just about the chords used on the One More Road version - subtle, sparse, jazzy chord structure? On the Solomon's Seal album the chords are more straight folky and resolved, something like -

         C            G                     D
The king has been a prisoner,
          Am                         C                     
And a prisoner long in Spain,
       G       Em    G          Bm
And Willie o the Winsbury
               Em                        G                  C
Has lain long with his daughter at home.
            C                      G                                     D
What ails thee, What ails thee, my daughter Janet,
                Am                        C
Why you look so pale and wan?
    G               Em            G             Bm
O have you had any sore sickness,
      Em               G                     C
Or yet been sleeping with a man?


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy o' Winsbury (from Pentangle)
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 06:25 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0zAr1t6nTE&feature=channel_page
chords, g major dmajor eg [dyad]c major;g major dmajor eminor;
gmajor dmajor e minor];g major d major c major,so it finishes on the sub dominant


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Willy o' Winsbury (from Pentangle)
From: GUEST,Millindale
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 06:57 PM

I have to agree with Lowden Jameswright about the Lennard Squires version. The 'wailing' fiddle of John Sqires lends it an atmosphere I've never heard on any of the other versions, and there are many.


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Subject: Chord Req: Willy o' Winsbury (from Pentangle)
From: JanH
Date: 24 Jun 12 - 11:37 AM

Long and easy to read:

Willie O'Winsbury    Traditional

(D)(G) (C) (G) (Bm)    (Em) (G) (C)
The king has (G)been a priso(D)ner,
And a (Am)prisoner long (Am7)in (C)Spain,
And (G)Willie (C)of the (G)Winsbu(Bm)ry
Has lain (Em)long with his (G)daughter at (C)home.

"What ails you, what (G)ails you, my daughter (D)Janet,
Why you (Am)look so pale (Am7)and (C)wan?
Oh, (G)have you (C)had any (G)sore sick(Bm)ness
Or (Em)yet been (G)sleeping with a (C)man?"

"I have not (G)had any sore sick(D)ness,
Nor (Am)yet been sleeping (Am7)with a (C)man.
It (G)is for (C)you, my (G)father (Bm)dear,
For (Em)biding so (G)long in (C)Spain."

"Cast off, cast (G)off your berry-brown (D)gown,
You stand (Am)naked upon (Am7)the (C)stone,
That (G)I may (C)know you (G)by your (Bm)shape,
If (Em)you be a (G)maiden or (C)no."

And she's cast (G)off her berry-brown (D)gown
She stood (Am)naked upon (Am7)the (C)stone
Her (G)apron was (C)low and her (G)haunches were (Bm)round,
Her (Em)face was (G)pale and (C)wan.

"Oh, was it with a (G)lord or a duke or a (D)knight,
Or a (Am)man of birth (Am7)and (C)fame,
Or (G)was it with (C)one of my (G)serving (Bm)men
That's (Em)lately come (G)out of (C)Spain?"

"It wasn't with a (G)lord, nor a duke or a (D)knight,
Nor a (Am)man of birth (Am7)and (C)fame,
But (G)it was with (C)Willie of (G)Winsbu(Bm)ry,
I could (Em)bide no (G)longer a(C)lain."

And the king has (G)called on his merry men (D)all,
By (Am)thirty and (Am7)by (C)three,
Says, (G)"Fetch me this (C)Willie of (G)Winsbu(Bm)ry,
For (Em)hanged (G)he shall (C)be."
- Instrumental verse -

But when he (G)came the king be(D)fore,
He was (Am)clad all in the (Am7)red (C)silk.
His (G)hair was (C)like the (G)strands of (Bm)gold,
His (Em)skin was as (G)white as the (C)milk.

And "It is no (G)wonder," said the (D)king,
"That my (Am)daughter's love you (Am7)did (C)win.
For if (G)I was a (C)woman, as (G)I am a (Bm)man,
My (Em)bedfellow (G)you would have (C)been."

"And will you (G)marry my daughter (D)Janet,
By the (Am)truth of your (Am7)right (C)hand?
Oh, (G)will you (C)marry my (G)daughter (Bm)Janet?
I will (Em)make you the (G)lord of my (C)land."

"Oh yes, I will (G)marry your daughter (D)Janet.
By the (Am)truth of my (Am7)right (C)hand.
Why (G)yes, I will (C)marry your (G)daughter (Bm)Janet,
But I'll (Em)not be the (G)lord of your (C)land."

And he's mounted (G)her on a milk-white (D)steed,
And him(Am)self on a dap(Am7)ple (C)grey.
He has (G)made her the (C)lady of (G)as much (Bm)land
As she shall (Em)ride in a (G)long summer's (C)day.

This is The Pentangle´s version from the 1972 album 'Solomon´s Seal'.

janhauenstein@gmx.de


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