Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 09:14 AM

And to quote from Dorothy Parker, "If you can't say anything nice about someone, come sit by me."

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Fiolar
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 09:11 AM

To quote Michael Collins when a colleague criticised DeValera - "If you can't say anything good about him, say nothing."

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 08:48 AM

Bob Hope had many awards. But Bob Hope never received any awards for *acting*. Bob Hope never received any awards for *comedy*. He received honorary "lifetime achievement" types of awards. Public service awards. But he never received an award for his professions of actor and comedian.

Sheesh, read what is written people. This is the third time I've explained this.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 07:12 AM

"...There is only one side making the personal attacks.." GUEST, pdq)

That, I'm afraid, is cobblers. There have been inumerable, and sometimes very vicious, "personal attacks" directed at Mudcatters (and others) who come across as left of centre (a "centre" which in a lot of cases is itself what would be seen in most countries as fairly right-wing). We'd be better off without that kind of stuff, whichever direction it's aimed at.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Deckman
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 06:02 AM

Murray ... You are quite correct, of course. You don't suppose that those odd notes were "accidental?" I mean this comment in good humor. After all, we are speaking about a person who was a magnificent humorist. Another telling part of Bob Hopes life is echoed in this thread: look where these postings are coming from ... ALL AROUND THE WORLD! Quite a wonderful story, all in all. CHEERS, Bob

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 05:19 AM

No awards? no honours? - Over 2000 of them in his lifetime according to the BBC. He brought happiness and laughter to a great many people throughout his lifetime, raised billions for charity, while still working and long after an age when most have retired.

Rest in peace, 100 - a great innings for a great entertainer.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 04:14 AM

Deckman, I hate to be pedantic just as much as I dislike introducing thread creep, but I don't think "Buttons and Bows" can be played on the black keys.

"............rings and things and buttons and bows ......"

There is a semitone difference between "butt...." and ....tons" when you sing "buttons" in that line, therefore it could not be played on the black keys and isn't really a pentatonic melody.

That apart, your contributions to this thread are magnificent.

Murray

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: alanabit
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 03:47 AM

I found him funny at times and would want to celebrate his life. No I didn't like his politics. The same same can be said for Jimmy Stewart. I think that at the moment though, I would want to concentrate on the things I liked about the man. When Jimmy Stewart died, I preferred to recall his work for conservation and his enormous courage and commitment during World War II. (He flew combat missions when he could easily have ducked out of it - and never made a big thing of it. That raised him several notches above some of the snivelling creeps of the MacCarthy era for me).
Crosby's politics were not mine, but I view politics as part of the man and not the whole man - which is essentially what Ron Olesko, Don Firth and Deckman are saying here. (I know you will correct me if I'm wrong!) "The evil that men do lives after them/The good is often interred in their bones". To our hooded guest, I can only say that is our choice. There are lots of things which I would prefer folks to overlook when I pass on. I'll remember Bob Hope for his courage, talent and essential decency.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 01:05 AM

For sources, there are plenty of biographies of Hope, and not all of them are testimonials to the man's greatness. For instance, "The Secret Life of Bob Hope" by Arthur Marx (Groucho's son and one of Hope's long line of writers) is more critical biography than not.

Hope has been something of a sacred cow in American life because of his career as an official government entertainer for the military, and because his wealth and political influence as a golf partner of presidents, once made him one of the most powerful men in Hollywood.

But just like the true story eventually came out on Bing Crosby after his death, we'll hear soon enough about the real Bob Hope--and it won't be the pretty patriotic picture being painted to memorialize him today.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Deckman
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 12:28 AM

I'd like to comment on another aspect of Bob Hope's life that I don't think has been addressed yet. He was ONE HUNDRED YEARS OLD! Can you, or any of us possibly begin to understand the social mores and changes that he survived? My wonderful Father died last year at the age of 94. He and I spent wonderful hours (years) speaking to the changes in our society within his lifetime. Consider what America was like in 1903. What was common? What was acceptable? What was expected? Think for a minute, what changes Bob Hope had to endure. What accepted and encouraged behaviors did he have to unlearn as society changed and grew. It ain't easy folks, living through one hundred years of American social changes. Hells bells, it ain't even easy just living one hundred years! As I read these pipsqueeks thoughts, I well remember something I witnessed my Father say. One time, while we were in line at fast food place, my Father proudly announced to me, and everyone else within the the room, that he had just received his 'senior citizen discount card.' An upstart 16 year old child in line turned to my Father and said: "Jeeze, Mister. You sure are old." My Father did'nt even bat an eye or miss a beat. He just looked at the kid and said: "Keep that up kid, and you won't live to be half my age!"

So, when I read these kind of pipsqueek comments from kritters that are probalaby not even one fourth of Bob Hope's age, I just yawn and say ... "rise above it." CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 12:04 AM

Guest- Of course Hope was rich, but the money did not come directly from his U.S.O. tours.   He was a good businessman and made many investments and real estate deals. His contract with NBC alone was huge. He did not need to make money from the U.S.O. and put his life in danger.

Guest, it may be hard for you to imagine this, but Bob Hope did not earn blood money for his support of the troops. I can understand that you see a consipiracy in every action, but sometimes you are wrong.   You have every right to be a pessimist and see that the glass is half full, but do you have to say the glass is dirty too?

Please back up your statement with some facts.

Nobody is making Bob Hope into a sacred cow. He had his flaws like the rest of us. However, at this time many of us choose to remember and thank him for the good that he did.   You may fail to see that and you are entitled to voice your opinion, but please use facts not just statements you choose to make up - especially when you are too much of a coward to appear in public without a sheet over your head.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Deckman
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 12:00 AM

By the way: Did you know that the song "Buttons and Bows" can be played on the piano using just the black keys. This means that the song is in the "pentonic scale". (five note scale). As I said, just rise above it! Bob

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Cluin
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 11:59 PM

Goodbye, Mr I-Wanna-Tell-Ya. Thanks for the laughs.

I still love the "Road" movies.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Blackcatter
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 11:54 PM

Hope made me laugh. He made my dad laugh. He made my mom laugh. His specials on TV were always on in my home growing up, not because they were the best shows going, but because something interesting always happened and because it appeared that Hope was having a good time. That's what I try to do when I'm performing. And he's one of the persons I learned that from.

Oh - and for those who think he wasn't honored by his peers - he was also honored 5 times by the Academy Awards and the Guinness people consider him to be the most honored entertainer ever.

The blue clicky below will take you to the original words of Thanks For The Memory

Blackcatter's Bob Hope TV Theme Page

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 11:33 PM

Being the quintessential red blooded American comedic patriot was very good business for Bob Hope. He was the richest entertainer in the world.

To say that Bob Hope didn't financially benefit from his USO tours and status as the official US military sanctioned entertainer of the troops for decadeds, beggars belief. He had very good *financial* reasons for playing the patriotic entertainer.

As to his awards, he was never awarded, by either his peers or by critics, as an actor or a comedian. He was loaded down with humanitarian awards, service awards, a bunch of keys to cities, etc. But the honorary Oscar and Emmy were nods to his political power and clout, and his longevity. But there most certainly were not any awards ever given to Bob Hope for his talent. For a good reason.

I can appreciate that he died an icon. Sixty successful years in any business is something to be admired. But he isn't a sacred cow. Just a convenient pawn in the maudlin military nostalgia propaganda campaign. Just when the government needs it most too--when the war is going to hell in a hand basket. I'm sure Mr. Hope in heaven is enjoying the irony of his death deflecting the heat from the commander in chief.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 10:34 PM

PDQ - we should probably take this discussion to another forum, because it does not do Bob Hope justice, however since we started here I would like to add something.

You made a good point about one side making the personal attacks, but while it does seem to come from anonymous guests attacking the right, I don't think it is fair to say that the other guy always starts it. The problem with fanatics on the extreme of both sides is that they live in shells. They fail to look at the real world around them and TRY to figure out what makes them think the way they do. That doesn't mean you have to give up your beliefs or excuse wrong-doings. It means that you understand what makes the "other side" tick and perhaps enables you to come up with solutions.

Getting back to Bob Hope, there was a beautiful A&E Biography about the man that just finished airing. They dealt with Vietnam, and he did not make excuses for his being a "hawk".   He did try to explain that he wanted to win the war and get everyone home. That doesn't change the way I felt about the war, but I do think I understand his feelings. The bottom line is that there were HUNDERES OF THOUSANDS of soldiers who didn't want to be there either, and Hope let them know that there were people who cared about them. Cynics will say that the U.S.O. shows earned him money and benefited his career, but that is wrong. There are many other ways to do that. You don't need to spend every Christmas away from home, living in extremely dangerous conditions and chance losing it all. Hope, like Al Jolson who actually began the practice, spent time because something inside of them gave them their reason for being here on this planet. It is called service. Hope was a hero.

Loving one's country is something that both sides fight for. The left wants to make change because they feel that the ideals that built this country aren't being lived up to. The right fights to protect those same freedoms.   Both sides are closer than they think.

Thanks again Bob. You will always be a national treasure.

Ron

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 09:23 PM

In short, you just made a bunch of assumptions without reading what we said and exploded on the basis of what you assumed?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 09:20 PM

Don: I had not yet read the admirable defense of Hope and others that you posted. Thank you. You and Ron have both been fair. I do ask that, at some time, you study the general tone of the Mudcat discussions. There is only one side making the personal attacks, the other side is merely fighting back. That is how I see it. Politics has been part of folk music for a long time, but right now the left seems to be driving out anyone who won't toe the line, living or dead. Again, that is how I see it. God bless Bob Hope.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: The Walrus
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 09:13 PM

Well, I for one, am grateful for the life of Bob Hope.
OK, maybe a lot of his 'ad libs' were actually written for him, but there is a lot in the delivery - he was a performer for God's sake!<1>
Maybe he wasn't quite the man his image minders projected - that's called being human.
Maybe I don't find him as funny now as I used to do- Tastes change
Maybe his films are not 'politically correct' - They were made when p.c. only stood for Police constable.
Maybe some find his politics 'iffy' - that can be said of many people along all parts of the spectrum
All in all, he is well into the plus side of the ledger and the world is richer for his being.

Thanks for the memory, Bob

Walrus


<1> A Musical comparison? "Lucy in the Sky" by the Beatles and by Shatner - It's in the delivery

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 08:55 PM

Please excuse me Banjer and others, but I just have to ask GUEST,pdq this:—

I take it from what you have written that you are of the conservative persuasion. Looking back over both Ron's and my posts, I can't see that we have done anything but praise Bob Hope. Yet you attack us as if we are attacking Hope's politics rather than lauding his talents as an entertainer. Somehow, we seem to have offended your conservative sensibilities. If you don't mind, would you please go over our posts and let us know where, exactly, we transgressed? I can't see it, myself. In fact, in the post in which I posed the Great Cosmic Question, I was taking to task those who bad-mouthed Hope and who seemed to be wanting to turn this into a political thread.

What, exactly, did I say to trigger your ire?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Bert
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 08:45 PM

Oh dear.

I liked Paleface, in case you haven't seen it, it was a spoof on Westerns. It was a SPOOF guys. You weren't supposed to take it seriously.

It was funny because it poked fun at Western movies and my Dear Mudcatters it had at least one good song in it. "Buttons and Bows". And several good jokes "Hmmm, Virginia Creeper".

When Painless was shaving and the arrow went 'thunk' and held up his mirror. It wasn't intended to be a putdown on Indians. It was meant to be funny.

Gawd, if you think that Paleface was chauvinistic and racist then you'd better not watch any of the Carry On movies.

One of the things that makes us human is the ability to laugh at ourselves. There was a thread recently on stereotypes, and yes that was funny as well.

I'm very left wing but I can still laugh, and I thank Bob Hope for making me laugh hard and often.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 08:21 PM

"You have to judge a man as a whole, not just a small part."

It strikes me that the problem here is that some people are feeling it necessary to do just that, judging the man on all the things he did in 100 years, especially the ones they don't like from the later years.

Perhaps if you are "judging" a man you do it on that basis; but when you are not seeking to judge, but to appreciate him, maybe it's better to concentrate on the bits that you like best, and set aside the ones you don't.

"Judge not, lest you be judged."

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 07:56 PM

Ron: Thanks for explaination. If I have lumped you with the left wing goon squad I was wrong. I would like, however, for liberals to do a better job of rejecting their fringe elements. As a conservative, I am tired of having my side linked to lynchings, toxic waste dumps, and everything else wrong in the world.

Hope, Crosby, Gable, Stewart, Stack, Ebsen, all must be respected for their contributions. Bringing in politics shows, well, no class.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 07:46 PM

*grin*...actually, Bob stood right where the side of beef is in this picture. He would probably be amused.

Deckman...that is a great story about the bakery.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Deckman
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 07:44 PM

Hey folks ... simmer down! It gets REAL SIMPLE! Rise above it.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 07:40 PM

perhaps 50 years ago, Bob Hope played Wichita, Kans. He was booked into "The Forum", an old cavernous auditorium that was torn down about 1960 (he stood on the stage you can see in the pic)....he was introduced, walked out slowly and gazed at the audience in the hanging balconies...and looked...and looked......and finally, after 15-20 seconds, he leaned over to the microphone with a quizzical look and asked:

"....ummm...what time do the bats fly out?"

the audience howled!

this was LONG before I cared about his politics or worried that his humor was dated...It may be that writer gave him that line *shrug*, but it was **HOPE** that delivered it, and it was classic.

I don't CARE that he got rich from his trips to Korea, etc..he went! Every Christmas for years, and many other times in between. He actually risked his neck a few times, and he did what was needed, when it was needed. I'd rather he had had been a bit 'different' in his attitudes, but then maybe he wouldn't have been Bob Hope, who fit what the times needed in the 40s & 50s...

Let the man rest in peace!

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 07:35 PM

PDQ - I'm not sure why you are lumping me into the "anti-conservative" rant and putting me in the same catagory with those who "need to get a better perspective" on people like Bob Hope and the rest. Seems to me like you have stereotyped me without knowing me. Isn't that what you are saying the others are doing?

As I thought I made very clear, I have a great respect for Bob Hope. For that matter, I also loved Jimmy Stewart.   One of my favorite films was The Quiet Man, which is has some nasty stereotypes in it, is very demeaning towards women, and stars the poster child for the right wing conservative actors.

While I consider myself a liberal and a progressive, but not in the terms that "guest" uses it.   I do feel that everyone has a right to their opinion, and I will not deny anyone that right. I do make an effort to see where they are coming from, unlike a lot of people here and on radio. I will fight back when I see someone making blanket statements that have nothing to do with the truth. (Not meaning you PDQ, just the other cretin who posted earlier.)

I do agree with you and others that this forum was meant for a respectful tribute to Bob Hope. I am sorry I jumped into this, but my original post was trying to show how that "guest" was speaking out of turn.

Again, I think the world has lost a wonderful man. He gave more of himself then most people give him credit for.   He made us laugh, and still does. I will miss him.

Ron

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Deckman
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 07:29 PM

I had a cup of coffee with Bob Hope in 1964. It was quite a pleasant experience. I lived in a little town in the Santa Cruz mountains. Every Sunday morning, I would walk down the hill from my house, walk in the back door of the local bakery/coffee shop, and have a doughnut and coffee and visit with the baker. He'd do his doughnuts, I'd drink coffee and read the paper. There were a few of us locals that always started our Sundays like this. It was a small town thing to do. One day, it was just the baker and I, and in walked Bob Hope and two "suits." There was no doubt who he was. I've always been very comfortable around celebrities, knowing that we all put our pants on one leg at a time. No big deal. He and his associates started talking with the baker. After a couple of minutes, I turned to him, introduced myself, and asked him to be quiet as I was reading my paper. He laughed so hard his face turned red! It turned out that he was in town, village really, to buy that shop. The owner was in finacial need. Bob Hope bought the shop, kept the baker on, and nothing ever changed. The doughnuts and pastries stayed the same, the staff stayed the same, and the back door was always open at five in the morning. I think the one feeling that I remember, above all, was that this was just another guy, who absolutly loved to laugh, and was very human. I obviously recognised him, yet I had the balls to ask to be quieter ... and he loved it ... and so did I. Rest in peace. CHEERS, Bob

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 07:20 PM

Ron: The anti-conserative rant goes on all day, in every medium except (part of) radio. Please ask yourself if the personal attacks on people are because those folks did something wrong or because they were conservative. You and your fellow progressives had no trouble condemning Strom Thurmond, a man I know nothing about and care to know no more. You liberals need to get a better perspective. Jimmy Stewart , Bob Hope and Buddy Ebsen were all staunchly conservative, which is the only reason they have received such an unholy sendoff by the usual crowd of haters.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 07:15 PM

Exactly so, Banjer. Bob Hope was an entertainer, not a politician.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Banjer
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 07:10 PM

Why is it that every fucking thing that appears on this board anymore, no matter what the subject, gets turned into a political or religious argument. Can't anybody be civil anymore? Bob Hope did a LOT for the morale of our ARmed Forces over a great span of time. Why drag dirty laundry into it. If you didn't like him fine, that's your perogative, but let this be a memorial as it was intended, not a political/religious/social issue broohaha!

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 07:09 PM

"You liberals?" Again, what the hell are you talking about? Sounds to me like you pigeon-hole people on the basis of what you think they believe, then either agree with them or argue with them on that basis. Simplistic. Cheesy thinking.

When someone calls me a "liberal"--or for that matter, when someone calls me a "conservative--and that has happened--I know that they are not really hearing what I'm saying, they're hearing some collection of prepackaged ideas that they have tucked away in their heads. From that point on, I figure they're not worth arguing with.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 07:00 PM

"It was easier for you liberals to excuse the rant against Strom Thurmond, but when the target is Jimmy Stewart or Bob Hope, the attacks can not be excused."

PDQ- I may be missing what you are trying to say here. Could you expand that thought a bit?

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 06:57 PM

PDQ, I think I understand what you are saying.   I'm not sure though that somebody like that other guest who took time out from writing his manifesto to post on Mudcat is really somebody on "our" side.   That poor guest needs to realize that the world is different from the one inside his tar paper shack.

Trees have to bend in order to survive.

McGrath - I'm glad he didn't retire.   Hope was known for quite a bit more than those early movies. You have to judge a man as a whole, not just a small part. His U.S.O. tours and his charity work make up a part of his picture.   His work on radio really helped set the stage for variety shows that would follow both on radio and TV - and I'm not talking about just the ones he did. His style and format were often copied.   While he may not have authored all his own jokes, his delivery made them his own.

Hope poked fun at everyone, including himself. His jokes were corny at times, and I would not classify him as a political humorist, but he did let the right have it just as much as the left. He was not mean spirited by any means, even though some may have hinted at that in their posts. Hope helped us laugh at ourselves. As I said earlier, he was able to do this during the dark hours of WWII and that is probably an often overlooked accomplishment.

I don't know how true this is, but I just heard on the radio that knowing the end was coming, his wife asked him where he wanted to be buried.   His answer was "surprise me".

Ron

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 06:52 PM

Don: My spelling is usually better, but the point is that anyone considered conservative will be savaged by liberals. It makes no difference how fine a life that person has lead. It was easier for you liberals to excuse the rant against Strom Thurmond, but when the target is Jimmy Stewart or Bob Hope, the attacks can not be excused.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: NH Dave
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 06:51 PM

I will always respect Bob Hope for the entertainment he brought to the troops both during hot wars and the intervening cold wars that bridged the gaps between the shooting ones. He unselfishly gave up his holidays at how with his family so we could see a bit of home and, "what we are fighting for."

Over the years Bob Hope had to have ammased more overseas time than I did in my 26 years in the military, and it was all during what was Christmas time for those in the states, and all one night stands. I've done my share of bag-drags, one and two day trips to locations far from home and it isn't fun at the best of times, and even less fun over holidays.

Bob and his crew made the holicays just that little bit better for those of us who could gert away to see him. He may have been a hard nosed perfectionist, but he wasn't near as bad as our senior NCOS, and we understood the need he felt to give the best he and his gang had for the troops.

Dave

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 06:41 PM

Maybe he'd have done better to retire at 50. Which in effect he did, since the early films were what counted, not the stand up comic stuff.

Over here he's the guy who was in the Road movies with Bing, the one who never got the girl. Gentle fun.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 06:35 PM

GUEST,pdq, "impediment" to "our side?" What the hell are you talking about?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 06:32 PM

Joe, I also saw him live on campus and came away with the opposite opinion. I never liked his TV shows or movies, but in a live performance, I thought his timing and comedic wit were impeccable. I remember that performance after all these years. I laughed so hard my sides ached.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 06:19 PM

Have to take back the here and replace it with "hear", and maybe add "don't give a flying turd" what punks have to say.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 06:11 PM

Don Firth and Ron Olesko: Are you begining to realize that the biggest impedement to your side is your side?

Wherever he went, Bob Hope is golfing, and he can't here what punks say now anyway.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Padre
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 06:09 PM

Guest,
Will Rogers would be rethinking his best known quote after reading your posting.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Amos
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 05:54 PM

A few reminders of what he was really known for:

   
Eisenhower admitted that the budget can't be balanced and McCarthy says the communists are taking over. You don't know what to worry about these days ... whether the country will be overthrown or overdrawn.

Golf is a game that needlessly prolongs the lives of some of our most useless citizens.

I do benefits for all religions -- I'd hate to blow the hereafter on a technicality.
I don't bother to look for parking space anymore. As soon as I get near Hollywood Boulevard ... I sell.

I grew up with six brothers. That's how I learned to dance -waiting for the bathroom.

I have a wonderful make-up crew. They're the same people restoring the Statue of Liberty. 

I went to play golf and tried to shoot my age, but I shot my weight instead.

A

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 05:10 PM

". . . he wasn't often recognized with awards, etc. by his contemporaries, who didn't find him very worthy of special recognition for his acting or his comedy. . . ." GUEST, do you just pull this stuff out of thin air?

He was a generous man as well. Over the years he donated more than a billion dollars to hospitals, charities and civic organizations.

Hope's awards included scores of honorary degrees; special Oscars for humanitarianism and service to the film industry; the George Peabody Award; the National Conference of Christians and Jews Award; and the Medal of Freedom from President Johnson. He received honorary knighthood in England in 1998.

And that the members of your lengthy list of funny folks all, I'm more than certain, would acknowledge that Bob Hope pretty much set the pattern for the stand-up comic.

You and a couple of the other people who have posted on this thread once again raise that Great Cosmic Question that has puzzled humankind since time began:--

Why are there so many more horses asses than there are horses?
Don Firth

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: artbrooks
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 04:46 PM

Unlike Anon.Guest, Bob Hope never made any attempt to conceal who he was and what he thought.

I recall a message coming down to my unit in Da Nang, asking for each unit to pick a soldier to ge off of "special duty," to an unspecified location for a couple of days. No specific skills were asked for, just somebody that was reasonably clean cut. I picked our battery clerk, since we had a backup for him and we could continue our regular mission without him. He came back and, when asked where he had gone, said "to Saigon, to see Bob Hope." The date, time and location of the show were secret, because the powers-that-be were certain that it would be attacked otherwise. A great time was had by all.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 04:44 PM

There you go again guest... putting words in peoples mouths.   Show me where I defended racism and chauvinism or those that supported it. To say that "conservative democrats" are people that I "love dearly" is simply a lie.   

Stop putting words in people's mouths. If you can't defend your case, move on. Don't start maligning people as a way to win your arguement.

Drop your electronic hood and stop being a coward. If you are going to malign someone, have the guts to stand up for yourself.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: kinderfolk
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 04:42 PM

More precisely, I found Hope's humour passe, out-of-date for these more modern times. What he was in the past was of those times.

I apologise for the unset cookie earlier.

kinderfolk/lu

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 04:16 PM

"None of this is right, but when something is socially accepted you can't crucify those who simply lived in their era."

I beg to differ. First, no one here is attempting to crucify Bob Hope. But you seem to think that he is above criticism (sort of like your conservative Democrats you love so dearly, Ron) and beyond reproach for what he did with his life. Bob Hope's so-called comedy and so-called great films hurt a lot of people. His comedy, films, tv shows, and the Bob Hope empire did all it could to perpetuate that era where white people loved to laugh at the darkies, the injuns, etc.

I grew up with a lot of Native Americans, and not one of the thought Bob Hope's "The Paleface" movie was funny, or great moviemaking.

There are those like you Ron, who de facto end up defending racism and chauvinism, by continuing to defend the racists and the chauvinists, because you personally liked them. That is fine, if you wish to do that, I have no objection. But it doesn't mean that I or anyone else has to agree with you, or participate in your delusions and deceptions about the racism and chauvinism, or the racists and chauvinists, just because they can be conveniently excused for their roles in perpetuating that sort of hatred by saying "it was more acceptable among white folks back then".

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Ed.
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 04:10 PM

Ding dong, the fascist's dead

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 04:03 PM

"One other thing--just because the racism, chauvism, is of another era, it doesn't mean his humor and the stereotypes in his films didn't hurt the people it was directed towards any less, who lived through the era right along with him. So that "it was a different era" argument, to me, is disingenuous. There were people in that era too, opposing racism, chauvinism, etc. as best they knew how. Bob Hope wasn't among them. To suggest that his television specials from Vietnam, which many of us grew up on, were somehow enlightened comedy, is revisionist history."

Sorry guest, it is far from revisionist history. I do remember the specials, and yes there was a lot of flag waving. There was also humor that appealed to the audience it was intended to serve.   I may not have agreed with his beliefs, but I do respect his love of country and the people who served it.

While some people choose to remember his right-wing views during Vietnam, many people forget his efforts fighting facism during WWII. He helped fight the evil and let the country know that it was okay to laugh during difficult and scary times.

His jokes also poked fun at both the left and the right. I guess it is "revisionist" to remember only those jokes he told against the side we supported.

You are also wrong to say that the arguement of "it was a different era" is disingenuous. You have to look at situations in the context of the time.   There was a time in this country where women and segments of the population did not have their basic rights. Many of our forefathers were slave owners.   None of this is right, but when something is socially accepted you can't crucify those who simply lived in their era. He may not have been "englightened" to fight against these issues, but that does not mean he intentionaly tried to hurt or perpetuate. Enlightenment does not happen overnight, and to curse those who did not live to understand the need for change is pure revisionism.