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BS: Worst TV shows ever?
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Acorn4 Date: 05 Jul 09 - 07:21 PM I think "Crossroads" has been mentioned - the scenery that moved - the chef, Mr Booth who had left the series for six months but his arms were still handing a huge steaming saucepan through the serving hatch. My favourite was there was a lady on the show called Vera, who had an obnoxious brat of a son who would say things like "I'm just working at the motel until I go to University" in a voice a bit like Tony Blair. In one episode the lad was talking to his mother and I noticed that he had what appeared to be tomato ketchup running down his chin, at which I was a bit baffled. The mother and son then began to argue and this culminated in her slapping him round the face. The ketchup was supposed to be the blood flowing down his lip caused by the slap but had, in fact, been put on beforehand. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 05 Jul 09 - 09:41 AM ""Bottom. Humour scraping the bottom of the barrel."" YES! From underneath! The definitive answer though is that it hasn't been written yet, though all signs indicate that it is not far off. The seed may already be sown on this thread, if somebody picks up the concept of a reality show based on an internet forum. The only question is WHO would they cast to play the part of the Godlike, but supercilious kibitzer who never says anything germane to the topic, simply contenting himself with rubbishing all those who do. I'm not sure that we have any actors left with the required level of megalomanic egotism. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: alanabit Date: 05 Jul 09 - 05:53 AM A couple of years ago I was in the kitchen of a language school where I worked. My boss was in there with a man in his late thirties, whom I assumed was a colleague, whom I had not met before. Stranger: RTL II are working on the schedules for autumn. There is some really good stuff coming up. alanabit: It must be really hard work to keep it all down to the necessary standard. Stranger: (angry and sarcastic) Oh. That puts a whole different complexion on it! It turned out that the stranger was the Programme Director of RTL II and an important customer... My boss did not fire me on the spot, so I guess I was lucky. In fact he was quite decent about it and later agreed that he had no problem with the substance of what I had said. (I think he did ask me to work on my timing of such remarks in the future...) From what I am reading on this thread, I can assume that it would give a lot of Mudcatters pleasure to have the opportunity to meet Programme Directors! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: SharonA Date: 05 Jul 09 - 05:03 AM To my mind, "worst" doesn't necessarily mean "silliest premise" or "most one-dimensional acting" or "most distasteful to me personally". For example, some of the shows of the '60s mentioned here (Gilligan's Island, Beverly Hillbillies, etc.) are admittedly too silly to be entertaining to adults but were designed as "family" entertainment so they were suppposed to be entertaining to children -- adults were to be entertained by watching their children enjoy the shows IMO. My idea of "worst" show is a show that is detrimental to the well-being of any minor forced to participate in it because of the greed of his/her parents or guardians (as determined by the post-show behaviors of its child stars). Therefore, I nominate "Full House", "Diff'rent Strokes", "Family Affair" and "The Patty Duke Show". I think it's safe to add "Jon & Kate Plus Eight" to the list because of the impact that Jon & Kate's on-air animosity and impending divorce will have on their children who have been forced to live through that while the cameras rolled. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Skivee Date: 05 Jul 09 - 01:27 AM I am shocked...shocked I say, that the usual subjects, in spinning out this distasteful litany of brain-sucking trash, have failed to list the worst series of all time. I suppose the burden falls to me, now. "Turn-On" was ABC's attempt to get a comedy show along the lines of NBC's "Laugh-In". I recall it as being heavily promoted. Rapidfire jokes and quick cut-aways. The family saw it. None of us laughed. The cast may as well have been reading the phonebook. I discussed it with friends at school the next day...nobody else had laughed. It was a show so bad that it was cancelled DURING its first episode. We may take some solice in the fact that it was cancelled. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Gurney Date: 05 Jul 09 - 01:08 AM 'Get Smart' and "Some Mothers Do Have 'Em.' Stuff like that. I love comedy, but it has to BE comedy, not mocking the afflicted. They are actually trying to sell DVDs of 'Get Smart!' |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Jul 09 - 12:07 AM It would be almost like listening to the game on the radio, wouldn't it? Except you'd get eyestrain... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: GUEST,seth in Olympia Date: 05 Jul 09 - 12:03 AM I have a memory of my father and my grandfather trying to watch a football game at my gramp's place in small town Ohio in the early 50's. They couldn't quite get the station to come in, so there was lots of distortion and "snow" on the little b/w/ screen, the teams were wearing white, or whatever what color appeared that way, It was blowing snow outside and for sure in Cleveland where the game was being played. we couldn't see a thing on that little TV, but the adults in the room were completely engaged with it. One of my first experiences with the power of the medium. I think I was having a fine time too. seth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Little Hawk Date: 04 Jul 09 - 11:58 PM Just think, Bill, there may soon be a TV "reality" show about the contentious political threads on Mudcat Cafe. Viewers nationwide will tune in daily to chuckle and exclaim over the gratuitous spite, the insults, threats, and personal vendettas unfolding between Mudcat members and the few despised "Guests" who dare to intrude, the accusations of homophobia, sexism, racism, anti-semitism, and bigotry, the malicious rhetorical questions (of the "are you still beating your wife and kicking your dog" variety) and the character attacks that are not really intended to elicit a real answer of any kind, but rather to subject the other person to a bit of emotional browbeating and perhaps waste a significant amount of their time if they get sucked into trying to defend themselves. And last but not least....the vicious partisan infighting between Democrats and Republicans! Such a show would never run out of fertile subject matter and it would incorporate enough hostility and discord to keep viewers hooked indefinitely. ;-D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Bill D Date: 04 Jul 09 - 01:36 PM (Oh...I forgot the 2-3 cop shows where you have a film crew follow police doing daily 'stuff'...lots of drunks, family fights...etc. And the "TV court shows, where stupid small claims of stupid small-minded people are 'settled' by smart-alec 'judges' who are good with quips...(yes...there IS a Spanish version, too...I knew you'd ask) Oh...and the Prison shows, where we see the dregs of society demonstrating how they smuggle in contraband, order 'hits' back in the 'hood', and make weapons out of sharpened toothbrushes to settle scores with guys who 'disrespect' them. (Sometimes they show guards pretending to 'control' these folks.) Oh...I almost forgot the guy who makes his living going all over the world eating weird foods! (Baked Raccoon brains is mild...) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Bill D Date: 04 Jul 09 - 01:19 PM "There are reality shows about logging????" Yup...Regular logging, swamp logging, river dredging for logs....and JUST announced... **Ice Logging** (more danger, ya' know: Oh, indeed! And about driving trucks on dangerous roads on Canada's "Ice Road", and now about driving Alaska's Dalton road from Anchorage to Prudhoe...and about fishing for crab in the Bering Sea. Those at least have some 'real' danger and stories... The really weird 'reality' shows are the ones vaguely patterned after "Survivor",where tasks are assigned and weak contestants 'voted off'. When it's done about singing, it's tacky but easy to grasp...sorta.....BUT...they also do it about **cooking**, **designing clothes**, **running a business** (a couple variations), and...wait for it...**grooming dogs**!! "Missy, you didn't really fluff up that poodle's neck band enough...Jose wins!" Have I missed any? Then, the "el Cheapo" reality shows, fueled by millions of videos now that every idiot has either a camera or a cell-phone with the ability. Now there are 5-6 shows displaying car wrecks, skiing accidents, explosions, shark attacks, volcanos...etc.... And even shows where idiots PLAN dangerous stunts and have them filmed IN ORDER to be on TV! Further...(you knew by now there must be a 'further', huh?)...I just discovered a show where women hire this guy to 'set up' their boy friend or husband but having some pretty girl flirt with him and tempt him, while filming it all with hidden cameras....(I watched 20 seconds or so...then gagged and went on to high class stuff like NASCAR races...) The one 'reality' show that offers something really good is "Dog Whisperer", where Caesar Milan shows folks how to train & cope with dogs. This man is a genius, and his basic message & understanding of dog psychology is.....awesome. I don't have a dog, so it is not regular fare for me...but I will look at it occasionally just to be astounded. I'm sure I missed a bunch of examples of gratuitous crap......ah, well |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: RangerSteve Date: 04 Jul 09 - 12:48 PM Oh, yeah, I forgot, there's a show about people who reposess cars. I haven't seen it yet, oddly enough, the ads make it look like it might be intersting, but I wonder just how many cars they have to reposess before they get an hour's worth of worthwhile footage. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: pdq Date: 04 Jul 09 - 07:05 AM "Since you've seen Burns and Allen, I can honestly say you've seen the best TV ever had to offer in the way of comedy." Interesting that Paul Henning was writer for the Burns and Allen TV show in the early 1950s. He is best known for dominating the airwaves from 1962-71 with Petticoat Junction, Green Acres and The Beverly Hillbillies. Henning even wrote the theme songs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: bubblyrat Date: 04 Jul 09 - 05:43 AM "I Love Lucy" ----I still,after all these years,cringe over Lucille Ball's awful voice (although Gale Gordon was funny & a redeeming feature ). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Little Hawk Date: 03 Jul 09 - 06:18 PM I have to tell Raptor about the golf channel. He hates golf. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: RangerSteve Date: 03 Jul 09 - 05:27 PM LH - Since you've seen Burns and Allen, I can honestly say you've seen the best TV ever had to offer in the way of comedy. You are lucky. And, yes, there is at least one show about logging. And another about crabbing in the Bering Sea. And one about driving tractor-trailers over ice roads in the Arctic. In my opinion, each show is intersting once. Every other episode seems like more of the same. Yes, it's dangerous. Yes, you can get killed. Yes, the people who do these jobs are a little bit crazy. And these shows go on for more than one season. The fact that after a while it only gets interesting when someone dies makes it all a bit too morbid for me. If you think the idea of a CPA channel is far-fetched, there is already a golf channel. Really. Golf, for Pete's sake. 24 hours a day. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Little Hawk Date: 03 Jul 09 - 04:41 PM There are reality shows about logging???? Good lord. Sounds like a good remedy for those who have trouble falling asleep. I wonder if there's a "lawncutting" channel yet? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: GUEST,Neil D Date: 03 Jul 09 - 03:16 PM The Carol Burnett Show might be the gold standard of comedy (actually, Tim Conway was the only funny person on it but he was funny enough all by himself. The best bits were Tim being outrageous and everyone else breaking character because he was cracking them up.) but Mama's Family with Burnett, Vicki Lawrence, et al. was by far the worst show of all time. And believe me I have loathed a lot of TV shows over the years, but none so bad as that one. The problem nowadays is too damn many stations with time to fill. Do you realize there are now five different reality shows about logging. In another year we'll be watching: Number Men - Fascinating intrigue in the lives of Certified Public Accountants. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: number 6 Date: 03 Jul 09 - 08:03 AM It's been mentioned here in this thread, and L.H. has aired his distaste for these ... but any of 'reality T.V.' shows. Just dreadful stuff ... probably the last gasp of desperation in the ratings competition ... before TV finally is absorbed and replaced by the internet. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Ron Davies Date: 03 Jul 09 - 07:26 AM I agree with Tunesmith. Beverly Hillbillies was just great TV. Perfect escapism Ridiculing the rich--far more than hillbillies--as a continuing theme. Perhaps Mudcatters would prefer that hillbillies be ridiculed. Good scenery (Ellie Mae). It was the introduction for lots of people to bluegrass--and the highest quality bluegrass---Flatt and Scruggs. ( Obviously if you hate all bluegrass, this would not be a selling point.) And on top of this, probably one of the all-time best theme-songs ever. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Little Hawk Date: 03 Jul 09 - 12:39 AM No, we didn't have a TV back then, Bill, but I used to see the shows sometimes at some friends' places...and then I also saw reruns of some of them in the 70s from time to time. One time my parents went on a holiday in New England somewhere for 3 weeks in the mid-60s, and the place we were staying at had a TV...I saw a whole bunch of shows...really enjoyed the comedy one with George Burns and Gracie Allen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Bill D Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:04 PM *grin*...this "earlier poster" appreciates the support of the idea... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: GUEST,seth in Olympia Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:02 PM I grew up in Cleveland in the early 50's, when TV was black and white, three stations, and a fair amount of local production. Nobody really know how to do TV then, so a lot of stuff was brought over, more or less directly, from the radio. Polka shows, in-studio wrestling, amateur talent shows,bowling shows, locally produced movie programs, children's shows, most of it truly awful, though it didn't necessarily seem that way at the time....I know I preferred the locally produced " Uncle Jake" to " Howdy Doody" because you could actually go downtown and get on "Uncle Jake", while nobody knew how you got to be on Howdy. Anyway, there was a certain bit of funky hometowness to those shows, that is gone, gone with the wind now. I got rid of my TV in the mid 70's, but in this culture, you can still know a lot about what goes on with TV even if you rarely watch it. My most recent TV encounter was watching Jerry Springer every day with my mental health clients. I think that the earlier poster was correct: Jerry Springer is secretly running everything. seth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Bill D Date: 02 Jul 09 - 07:36 PM My taste has I'd list programs, but my list/explanation from 2 years (10 Jun 07 - 09:39 PM ) ago back up there ↑ seems to say it all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Acorn4 Date: 02 Jul 09 - 04:52 PM For those of you chronologically gifted.... Terry and June. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: number 6 Date: 02 Jul 09 - 04:40 PM We had a TV and I wouldn't watch those programs. Happy Days is one program I would add to the worst TV show ever ... and also add Barretta and that one other stoopid program with the bald guy as a detective. How about The King of Kensington, Charlie's Angels. IMHO ... TV went straight down hill in the 1970's. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: number 6 Date: 02 Jul 09 - 04:33 PM hey L.H. Mchale's Navy Hogan's Heros Beverly Hillbillies Gilligan's Island I thought you said you didn't have a TV in your home at that period in your life!?!?!?! biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: goatfell Date: 02 Jul 09 - 02:19 PM the Queen's speech at christmas |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Richard Bridge Date: 02 Jul 09 - 02:08 PM How dare anyone diss Dr Who? Little Britain is as dire as anything else mentioned here. And as for "Crossroads"... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Jul 09 - 02:06 PM "I Love Lucy" was an astonishingly bad TV show. One would think it had been designed to torture confessions out of prison inmates. At least, that's how it struck me. A lot of people apparently loved it, though. (?) Then there was "Three's Company". AUUUUGHHHH!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Richard Bridge Date: 02 Jul 09 - 01:55 PM 100. Better read the thread now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Richard Bridge Date: 02 Jul 09 - 01:54 PM Worst Ever? Maybe "I love Lucy", or "Bootsie and Snudge". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 15 Jun 07 - 05:24 AM have you seen (can you miss) those weird Tony Robbins 'Get the edge' self improvement courses. That guy makes the TV evangelists seem like honest journeymen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Don Firth Date: 14 Jun 07 - 10:09 PM It's got my vote, Little Hawk! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Little Hawk Date: 14 Jun 07 - 09:18 PM Well...I'm not sure which is a bigger waste...but I think it would really be entertaining to combine them somehow. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: frogprince Date: 14 Jun 07 - 08:55 PM Okay, guys; cast your votes on this: which is a more gratuitous waste of broadcast power, television wrestling, or.... televangelists? I haven't seen Dr. Gene Scott for awhile. For a year or so, I got home from a miserable job at a crazy hour, and would sit down to the TV to unwind. The guy was on for hours every night, sitting there with a scraggly beard, various stupid hats, and a big dog-turd cigar, rambling off what was supposed to be Biblical teaching. I confess to sitting there sometimes, locked into fascination-with-the-train-wreck mode. One night he was expounding on the prophetic significance of the arrangement and dimensions of the chambers and passages inside the Great Pyramid (believe it or not, that goes back to the early roots of dispensationalism). He paused, said, "Send in more money, and I'll tell you the rest", and sat silent for a prolonged period. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Don Firth Date: 14 Jun 07 - 01:23 PM Okey dokey. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 14 Jun 07 - 03:37 AM If it works for you Don, I won't say another word. I wish you many happy hours of viewing enjoyment! al |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Don Firth Date: 13 Jun 07 - 01:42 PM Elizabeth George, who writes the novels upon which "The Inspector Linley Mysteries" are based, is following a time-honored pattern established in classic detective fiction. The main character—the detective—is not just any old detective. He (or she) has some specific personal characteristics that set them apart from most people—just like most people are unique when compared to other people. Sherlock Holmes – brilliant but troubled mind that needs puzzles to solve, plays the violin, is addicted to cocaine. Philo Vance – another brilliant mind, knows everything, can carry on a three-page dissertation on Egyptian scarabs or nuclear physics, independently wealthy. Nero Wolfe – obese, never leaves his house, tends his orchids. Archie Goodwin does his "legwork," reports back, Wolfe figures out what what's really going on. And these are only three of a whole host of fictional detectives. There are dozens. Hundreds. And you will not that none of these need to be detectives. wld, you may not "be farting about with dead bodies if I were a wealthy aristocrat," but Thomas Linley, given his attitudes and predilections, and especially his values and his rather fierce sense of justice, would. Works for me. . . . Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Don Firth Date: 13 Jun 07 - 01:11 PM The Inspector Linley Mysteries. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Little Hawk Date: 13 Jun 07 - 11:35 AM You cannot sustain the tension of a possible romantic liason between 2 major characters in a series if it ever actually happens. And that's why it doesn't. Standard dramatic technique. I regret to say that I have never seen the show, and thus I have never seen Ms Havers either... Sounds like I've missed something there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 13 Jun 07 - 03:01 AM no I wouldn't be farting about with dead bodies if I were a wealthy aristocrat - neither would anyone else! and in truth, I stopped watching quite a while back. I'm afraid the sexual tension went out of it as well, when the utter stupidity of watching this programme finally dawned on me. I'm afraid only the remote possibility of seeing Havers in a policeman's helmet and not much else is what will rekindle my interest in Lynley and his dull doings. Please PM me if it happens al |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Don Firth Date: 12 Jun 07 - 12:56 PM Regarding "The Inspector Linley Mysteries," you're missing something, weelittledrummer. You don't believe an aristocrat, especially an amitious and energetic young man who feels a bit soffocated by his family, might not want to get out and do something useful in the world? He has an acute, analytical mind, and working as a police detective gives him a chance to use it. As the main character for a series of fictional detective stories, it works for me. And whether or not he eventually wakes up and gets it on with Havers is one of the suspense-points of the series. It ain't over yet. But then, nobody's holding a gun to your head and making you watch it. Are they? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: mg Date: 12 Jun 07 - 12:25 PM I would have to add the infomerxial on the colon cleanse..the guy that talks on it looks so unhealthy and in need of an immediate liver transplant. Does not give one much confidence in the product. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Bill D Date: 12 Jun 07 - 12:13 PM M*A*S*H??? Tsk...I guess it shows how different we are. MASH was one of the most widely praised shows of all time. And unlike some shows, it matured and got better after the first few seasons. What does "smug self-satisfaction" mean? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Folk Form # 1 Date: 12 Jun 07 - 10:23 AM The New Avengers. How dare they replace Diane Rigg (sigh) with some other person. Bottom. Humour scraping the bottom of the barrel. Anything with Dawn French in it. Smug self-righteousness is never funny and nor is she. The 70s versions of Wonder Woman and Spiderman. The comic books were never this boring, surely. Superman and Lois. Why Lois? Who cares about her. She doesnt even have any super powers. The series manages to make Superman look like a wimp. MASH. Suicide is less painful than watching this piece of smug self-satisfaction. Anything with The Corries or The Spinners in it. Drove away legions of potential folk fans. I suppose they are better than Mike Harding, though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Grab Date: 12 Jun 07 - 08:28 AM "3rd rock from the sun" recommended? Seriously? That'd be fairly high on my list of worst shows. Probably #3. #4: Sex and the city. Why should we care? And sorry, but I don't find skeletons attractive just because they're dressed in designer clothes. #2: Friends. Why did people think it was funny? Acting's crap, script's crap, characters (what there is of them - South Park animation has more depth) are crap, one-liners are crap, situations are crap, sets are crap, music's crap. Thank heavens it finally got cancelled. But it still wasn't as bad as... #1: Married with Children. The ultimate crap sitcom. I don't think there's ever been one as bad, and pray god there never will be. It's not even amusing when blind drunk, and as sitcoms go that's as bad as it gets. As a special mention, I'd like to add my own place in hell for whoever thought laugh tracks were a good idea. Especially on MASH - thank you BBC for respecting our ability to spot a joke and broadcasting without the laugh track. Graham. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 12 Jun 07 - 02:33 AM All you Inspector Lynley fans. I can never be bothered to watch that load of crap - I mean we are talking nonsense - a peer of the realm actually working as a copper! What I've wondered is, has the Inspector ever actually got it on with Sharon Small? She is so nice - he must be raving mad. I suppose the that's what makes it so bad - its so unrealistic. Anyone normal would say, bugger the clues, stop the police car and let's go and do the dirty deed! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: RangerSteve Date: 11 Jun 07 - 04:03 PM CLayton Moore was probably hired for the Lone Ranger because he looked like a 50's movie cowboy hero. There are people who read as though there was a period at the end of every line of print, even if it isn't the end of a sentence. Tonto, you go to town and. Get the sheriff. I'll stay. Here and watch the cabin in. Case the gang returns. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst TV shows ever? From: frogprince Date: 11 Jun 07 - 02:41 PM To me, "The Lone Ranger" was a radio show, starring Brace Beemer. I had never really watched the TV version. In the early '70's, I was in grad school and someone rented L.R. videos for a campus party. They got the episode in which Reed becomes the Lone Ranger. I'm fairly sure that the old radio script was used for TV with no adaptation whatever for the change of media. It began with a rider arriving to tell the rangers that a rancher and his family had been brutally murdered. A "codger" stood there, absolutely wooden and expressionless, and drawled, "That's too bad" Later a "bad guy" falls several hundred feet off a cliff unto solid rocks. Tonto looks down and tonelessly pronounces, "Him dead, Kemosabe". For adult viewers, at least, so bad it was wonderful. |
