BS: Israel condemned by UN

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 03:12 PM

A few more "lies" for your bedtime reading
Jim Carroll


http://www.timesofisrael.com/woman-arrested-for-wearing-a-talit-at-the-western-wall/

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/rel-fan-articles.html

"The incentive offered in the new law, by pushing Isaac toward the top of the waiting list, unfairly punishes Jacob for his religious views. While nobly intentioned as a means of increasing the organ supply, practically this new law institutionalizes religious discrimination in medical treatment. Such a notion flies in the face of the Hippocratic tradition that has guided medical practice since its inception. Treating patients differently based on their religious convictions is something that good people should not tolerate."
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/new-israeli-law-puts-religious-discrimination-in-medical-treatment-1.428170

http://urj.org/about/union/pr/2012/?syspage=article&item_id=98020

' "Palestinians face systematic discrimination merely because of their race, ethnicity, and national origin, depriving them of electricity, water, schools, and access to roads, while nearby Jewish settlers enjoy all of these state-provided benefits," said Carroll Bogert, deputy executive director for external relations at Human Rights Watch. "While Israeli settlements flourish, Palestinians under Israeli control live in a time warp – not just separate, not just unequal, but sometimes even pushed off their lands and out of their homes." '
http://www.juancole.com/2010/12/hrw-on-israeli-racial-discrimination-in-west-bank.html

http://www.jpost.com/Features/InThespotlight/Article.aspx?id=296430

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3480345,00.html

http://www.policymic.com/articles/21819/women-s-rights-in-israel-girls-as-young-as-3-face-gender-discrimination

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/israeli-rabbis-ban-home-sale-and-rental-non-jews-2010-12-07

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33429.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 03:12 PM

I wish you two would just get married or something.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 03:05 PM

More than 60,000 African asylum seekers reside in Israel today, most having arrived in the past five years, according to the African Refugee Development Center in Israel, which advocates on their behalf. The vast majority have come from Eritrea and Sudan, crossing the border on foot from Egypt. None stay in Egypt then!


Other countries, he noted, which are better equipped than Israel to absorb the refugees should be recruited to help solve the crisis. "They have more room, and they have more resources," he said. "Israel has been taking a beating in the international press for how it treats the refugees, but never has there been any suggestion in these reports that maybe other countries should be lending a hand."

How many African refugees are taken in by Israel's neighbours?
Why constantly attack Israel Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 02:51 PM

Do not be so gullible Jim.
You will believe anything against Israel.
Israel is not poisoning anyone. The Bedouin in Israel are the lucky ones.

No other state in Middle East can match this.

Ethnic and religious minorities have full voting rights in Israel and are entitled to government benefits under various laws. Israeli Employment (Equal Opportunities) Law, 1988 prohibits discrimination in hiring, working conditions, promotion, professional training or studies, discharge or severance pay and benefits and payments provided for employees in connection with their retirement from employment, because of race, religion, nationality and land of origin, among other reasons.[68] Prohibition of Discrimination in Products, Services and Entry into Places of Entertainment and Public Places Law, forbid those who operate public places or provide services or products to discriminate because of race, religion, nationality, and land of origin, among other reasons.[69] According to the 2010 U.S. State Department Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for Israel and the Occupied Territories, Israeli law prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, and the government effectively enforced these prohibitions.[70]

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 01:21 PM

Whoops - sorry about the typos, but I'm sure you get the drift
Jim Carroll

"First arriving in Tel Aviv's Levinsky Park during a freezing January, Jacob was shocked at the uniformly hostile attitude of Israelis towards Africans like him. As genocide survivors, he says, Darfuris headed for Israel "thought that we shared a common interest" with Jewish Israelis raised on the memory of the Holocaust. But a common refrain he heard from Israelis was that all Sudanese refugees came from an "enemy state", and were not to be welcomed.
The worst thing about the racist abuse, Jacob says, is seeing the children of refugees exposed to violence and hatred; for example, when a south Tel Aviv kindergarten was burned down in April of this year. Attacks like these ones on children are a traumatic and painful reminder of the atrocities that many refugees have witnessed at home, says Jacob. In both instances, he says, one sees destruction of property and threats for no reason, with the strong message that "because you're black, you're a kushi [a racist Hebrew name for Africans], you're not a human being; you don't deserve to be in this state.""
..... The Israeli government can and should take measures to contain and discourage racist violence, says Jacob. Anything less amounts, in his words, to "really an underestimation of the dignity of the human being.""
http://ardc-israel.org/en/blog/2012/12/watch-sudanese-refugee-jacob-tells-israeli-abuse-hannukah-south-tel-aviv-marred-racism

The Israeli government ignored the UN's call, and the following month, Israelis firebombed a kindergarten for African children in Tel Aviv, igniting a wave of violence against non-Jewish African people in Israel that is still ongoing. Below are links to the UN reports, in text and video form, social media stories about the recent violence, footage from two years of anti-African rallies, and extended one-on-one interviews about opposition to the presence of Africans in Israel.
http://www.davidsheen.com/racism/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_acfNfFkgw

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2012/10/23/survey-of-israeli-racism-58-of-jews-label-their-state-apartheid/

http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/resources/briefing-papers/1230-israels-discrimination-against-its-arab-citizens

http://electronicintifada.net/content/un-body-appalled-israels-racial-segregation-policies/11065

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 01:20 PM

THE BEDOUIN PEOPLE ARE BEEING POISONED BY DELIBERATE GOVERNMENT POLICY - THERE IS NO EXCULE FOR THAT
YOU SPECIFICALLY CHOSE THE BEDOUINS AS AN EXAMPLE OF NON-DESCRIMINATION - PERHAPS YOU MIGHT LIKE TO SUPPLY EXAMPLES OF ISRAELIS BEING MOVED ONTO TOXIC SITES - NO? I THOUGHT NOT.

See below - pagefulls of others if you don't have enough

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: pdq
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 01:08 PM

Israel is a tiny place and there is not enough land for nomadic people(s) to keep up that way of life.

The Bedouin in the Mandate for Palestine region after WWII numbered less than 17,000.

They are now 170,000 and that is just in Israel, about 23% of the Mandate land.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 01:04 PM

The Bedouin Israeli population has increased tenfold since the establishment of the State (1948), due to a high natural increase – about 5% – which is unparalleled in Israel, or elsewhere in the Middle East.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 12:58 PM

Bedouin Leader Busting the Myth of Israeli *Racism*
Bedouin leader, Ismail Khaldi sets the record straight once and for all and exposes Palestinian (Pallywood) lies of Israel being a "Apartheid State" and *racist*.

An IDF officer, he's become one of the most well respected soldiers serving in the Israeli army. Refuting the myth of Israeli bias or racism against minorities, he stipulates that In fact it's no other than the "Palestinians" who are biased and racist against their own brethren who happen to be of other tribes such as the Bedouins, Druze, Baha'i and the Domari people.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: GUEST,999
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 12:57 PM

Best analysis of UN condemnation I've ever read.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 12:55 PM

Why single out Israel for your anger when they are treated much worse next door?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 12:46 PM

What does Egypt have to do with anything? - The Israeli regime is destroying the health of Bedouins, particularly, children by forcibly evicting them to toxic sites in order to build settlements and to suggest otherwise is simply lying - this was pointed out to you at the time the plan was put forward.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 12:33 PM

Egypt's Bedouins who inhabit the triangular Sinai Peninsula which links Africa with Asia and covers an area of 23,500 square miles, say they do not enjoy full citizenship rights and are treated as second class citizens. They say they are not allowed to join the army, study in police or military colleges, hold key government positions or form their own political parties.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 12:00 PM

"....likewise Bedouin."
Jim Carroll

Bedouin land and culture threatened by Israel's plans for resettlement
BEDOUINS SAY PLANS TO MOVE THEM TO PURPOSE-BUILT COMMUNITIES SWEEP ASIDE THEIR CULTURE AND CENTURIES-OLD TIES WITH THE LAND
Phoebe Greenwood in Tel Aviv
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 9 May 2012 10.23 BST
.The site in As Sawahira, West Bank, where Bedouins from the Negev desert have been relocated by Israeli authorities.
A stench of rubbish wafts over the Palestinian town of As Sawahira from the al-Abdali dump. The vast tip sprawls over an excavated hillside on the outskirts of the town and receives a constant stream of trucks carrying waste from nearby Jerusalem.
Israeli authorities are proposing to relocate 2,300 Bedouins from the surrounding hills to this site as part of their push to resolve "the Bedouin problem". Simultaneously, plans are proceeding through the Israeli parliament this month to move a further 90,000 Bedouin from their ancestral land in the Negev desert in Israel's south to government-planned townships.
The Israeli administration argues that a move to purpose-built communities will lift the indigenous population from unacceptable depths of poverty. Across Israeli-controlled territory, Bedouin communities argue that their culture, along with centuries-old ties to land, is being swept aside to make way for Jewish expansion.
Around 250 Bedouins from the Jahalin group already live on the fringes of the As Sawahira dump, moved here by the Israeli authorities 15 years ago from land now occupied by the Ma'ale Adumim settlement. Their modest homes and huts are overlooked by piles of rubbish on one side and the Kfar Adumim settlement on the other.
"I'm sure the dump is very damaging for our health, but the Israelis moved us here – we had no choice," says Abu Jahalin, 70. He has heard of the plans to move thousands more Bedouins to the dump. He points to the proposed site with his walking stick, explaining that it will run all the way from the top of the hill, where his sheep graze, to the piles of rubbish.
Abu Jahalin says there is not enough land to feed the animals already here: "They [the Israelis] will wall off the whole area so there will be nowhere for us to graze our animals. I'll probably end up feeding them at home. I've had to sell off most of my flock [of sheep] already to pay for animal feed." From a flock of more than 200, he has only 40 sheep left.
Khan al-Ahmar is one of 20 Bedouin communities in the E1 area outside Jerusalem that are scheduled to be evacuated. Bedouin families have lived in this village since 1951, after they fled as refugees from the Negev during the Israeli war of independence.
They live in the West Bank, but their land is controlled by the Israelis as it falls within Area C. The EU is funding Oxfam to run development programmes here. The Palestinian Authority is drafting a strategy to address their needs – but, ultimately, their fate is in Israeli hands.
In 1975, Israel declared the area a closed military zone. Today, almost every structure has been issued with a demolition order. A spokesman for the Israeli civil administration confirmed it is negotiating with the E1 Bedouins to move them and is investigating the dump as a possible relocation point.
"We are waiting for the results of an investigation into the health impacts of living on that site," Major Guy Inbar says. "I know they don't want [to move] but because they are living illegally, we have to find a better option within the law. Why now? Because now we want to enforce the law."
Unlike the Jahalin, Bedouin groups in the Negev have cultivated their land since the 16th century. They are also Israeli citizens, and yet 35 of their 46 villages are not recognised by the state. As a result, the 90,000 residents live without basic services such as water, electricity, healthcare, education or paved roads. And they are not allowed to build permanent structures.
Thabet Abu Rass, the Negev director for Adalah, an organisation that offers legal advice to the Arab minority in Israel, describes a painstaking fight for the rights of unrecognised villagers. "We have to petition the high court for each basic service, like water. Most of the time we win the cases – but the problem is implementation. Sometimes it takes 10 years. Or they grant us 'minimal access' to water, which means one tap three miles from the village."
According to a pending law for the regulation of Bedouin settlement in the Negev, due to be presented to the parliament this month, these villages will be evacuated in the next five years and ecah of their inhabitants compensated to move to one of seven government-planned townships – the poorest towns in Israel, with some of the highest crime rates.
Abu Rass argues that while the Bedouin are ill-equipped to survive in a town, they are excellent farmers who would thrive with state support to cultivate their land: "The Israelis say they want to modernise them. But modernisation doesn't necessarily mean urbanisation."
Information gathered by Oxfam from Bedouin families in the West Bank last year suggested that selling animals, mostly sheep, can earn a herder as much as £21,000 in a year. The problem is that as their grazing land has diminished, about half of this income is now spent on animal feed. Add to that the costs of trucking in water and paying for fuel for electricity generators, or investing in solar panels, and there is very little cash left over.
Mark Regev, a spokesman for the Israeli prime minister, says there is understanding between the government and the Bedouins that the situation is untenable. He insists, contrary to what is laid out in the proposed legislation, the Negev herders will be offered a choice to move to a town or rural village.
"The pockets of poverty and neglect in Bedouin communities must end. One [Negev] village is right next to a terrible, polluted dump. No one should be living next to a toxic dump," Regev says. "The solution is that all Bedouin[s] live in recognised communities where they receive the services they deserve."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/2012/may/09/bedouin-land-culture-israel-resettlement

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 10:16 AM

....likewise Bedouin.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 10:15 AM

In Arab countries, Palestinians are denied even citizenship never mind voting or other civil rights.

Ethnic and religious minorities have full voting rights in Israel and are entitled to government benefits under various laws. Israeli Employment (Equal Opportunities) Law, 1988 prohibits discrimination in hiring, working conditions, promotion, professional training or studies, discharge or severance pay and benefits and payments provided for employees in connection with their retirement from employment, because of race, religion, nationality and land of origin, among other reasons.[68] Prohibition of Discrimination in Products, Services and Entry into Places of Entertainment and Public Places Law, forbid those who operate public places or provide services or products to discriminate because of race, religion, nationality, and land of origin, among other reasons.[69] According to the 2010 U.S. State Department Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for Israel and the Occupied Territories, Israeli law prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, and the government effectively enforced these prohibitions.[70]

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 07:22 AM

A functioning democracy with millions of second-class citizens who do not enjoy the same rights and freedoms as the Jewish Israelis, by dint of accident of birth.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 02:40 AM

Israel doesn't create collateral damage with little loss of life is patently wrong.

No Stringsinger, if you are still talking about the subject of your thread, it is YOU who are wrong again.

There are within Israel, many who have disagreements with Netanyahu about his policies

Yes. It is a functioning democracy with opposition parties and a free press unlike all the other countries in the region.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Stringsinger
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 06:47 PM

There are within Israel, many who have disagreements with Netanyahu about his policies
and they represent the sane side of Israel. It's impossible to hate them.

This is true with those in America who oppose the AIPAC dictatorship and disagree with the Obama policy of forgiving Israel its atrocities.

The haters are coming from the Israeli government who proceed down the path of violence and authoritarianism.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Stringsinger
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 06:40 PM

Actually the Zionist theologians have blinders on when it comes to the facts about Israel and the insist on stating falsehoods and their world view that somehow Israel doesn't create collateral damage with little loss of life is patently wrong.

The culpability of Israel is known worldwide and their religious justification for their atrocities is a bulwark of their intransigence.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 03:50 PM

To recap, a vicious, evil regime that has been in a legal state of war with Israel for decades, tried to supply powerful weapons to internationally recognised terrorists, in violation of treaties and UN.

Israel was able to prevent the violation, with no collateral damage and little loss of life, and UN appears to be very happy with it.

So in this subject the Israel haters have no case at all.
No wonder they are frantic to change the subject.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Ed T
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 03:25 PM

""When Hezbollah rocketed Israeli military targets in 2006 from Lebanon, we called Hezbollah terrorists""

""When they act accordingly, we condemn. When Israel acts similarly, we condone."".

I didn't say or believe so in the first case and I won't say so in the second case.

I expect that all sides have their own reasons for doing what they do in conflict, some historic, some they genuinely believe to be offensive-defensive, but, mostly it's because they don't trust and have grown to dislike and to "demonize" the other side.

While there is normally disagrement on who is right and who is not so right in conflict (humans have a good capacity in believing they are always on the "right" side), the course taken here seems to leading to more conflict, less trust and a less liklihood of resolution and peace. Who benefits from that? Not likely the citizens of either side. Possibly the biggest benefits possibly go to those not directly involved, including the arms dealers?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 03:23 PM

"This thread is a perfect example....." of an inept apologist for atrocities mindlessly denying every documentary act of terrorism carried out by the Israelis - rewriting history in fact.
Brucie, on the other hand (who has stridently demanded answers from others in the past) has taken the wise (if cowardly) way out and maintained his silence on Israel's worst atrocity; one that makes Israel far more likely to be the regime to carry out mass slaughter than any other organisation or nation - it has already done it and is quite likely to treat anyone who gets in the way of their expansionist ambitions - not very good apologists, either of you.
Israel is not the Jewish people and its crimes against humanity shame those who died in the Holocaust as well as feeding Antisemitism, as do the apologists for those crimes.
Both of you have accused others of being Antisemitic or Anti Israel at one time or another - nobody here is either, except your good selves.
You should both be ashamed of yourselves, and the fact that there is little chance of that from either of you sums you both up perfectly.
There comes a time in these threads when the only value in even visiting them is to see what further humiliation people like this pair can possibly bring upon themselves - this point was reached on this thread long ago.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: kendall
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 03:00 PM

Greg, :-) I thought so.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 11:22 AM

Israel's handling of the situation with Syria is about self-preservation and tough shit if y'all don't like it.

It isn't a question of not liking it, Bruce, but of seeing it honestly for what it is. It's an attack on a neighbouring state with which it is not currently engaged in armed conflict. I absolutely understand why Israel feel they have to bomb convoys in a foreign country. They're scared of their enemies getting even more weapons. Yep, that's the messiness of making enemies, all right. As long as it's understood that, when Israel's enemies do the same thing to Israel, Israel shouldn't complain too much. When Hezbollah rocketed Israeli military targets in 2006 from Lebanon, we called Hezbollah terrorists. I've yet to hear anyone calling Israel terrorists for doing the same thing last week. Odd, that. Maybe it's that thing about the size of the bomb again. The danger is that, if we readily condone what Israel did, it will give them the heart to be a little bolder. Next thing we know, they'll be bombing alleged "nuclear installations" inside Iran. They won't bother waiting for solid evidence (or permission from the yanks), either. We can work that out from their propensity for bombing civilian areas in Gaza on the slenderest pretext of "Hamas using civilians as human shields" (trotted out as a routine excuse every single time).

I expect Hezbollah, Hamas, the Palestinians in Israel, Lebanon, Egypt and Iran are all scared of Israel getting getting even more weapons too. When they act accordingly, we condemn. When Israel acts similarly, we condone. Some of us call that a double standard.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 10:24 AM

The perception that many here are willing to do anything to slam Israel is clear in that....

This thread is a perfect example.
The OP was entirely bogus, yet all the Israel haters came running in to offer support.
They will believe anything against Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 10:22 AM

""So Israel, in disarming Hezboallah, is acting strictly in accord with UNSCR 1701.""

1). They are not disarming Hezbollah if Hezbollah possesses 10,000 rockets and Israel destroys one convoy which, remember, was "believed" to be headed for Hezbollah. There's far too little certainty in that.

2). They acted within the borders of Syria, which at this point is not actively engaged on either side, having more than enough problems of its own. They did so on the basis of a "belief" or "indications".

3). You say they are following the requirements of UNSCR 1701, yet the UN's own forces, UNIFIL have declined to disarm Hezbollah. The UN cannot be for and against disarmament, so who is doing its actual bidding? I'd say that circumstances have changed and that is born out, at least to some extent, by the fact that Hezbollah are neither firing, nor threatening to fire, any of those 10,000 rockets.

Turning one of your favourite arguments back, are you BB, setting different standards for Israel than for any of its neighbours. You always say that Israel has a right to defend itself.

Does Lebanon not have that right?....Does Iran?....Does Syria?, or Egypt?, or Jordan?

With Israel as a neighbour, do you think that no other Middle East Country than Israel should be capable of self defense?

If so Why?....To make an Israeli takeover easier?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Ed T
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 10:19 AM

It seems to me that western government policies in the Middle East could benefit from some "fuzzing".

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 10:07 AM

None of that is relevant to me Don.
Also, you put the made up statement in quotes as if I had said such a thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 09:59 AM

""anti semitic bastard".
Wrong person Don.
I do not do the personal attacks.""

You may lack the Hutspah to come out and say it, but it's implicit in you attitude and responses to anyone who presents evidence of Israeli misdeeds, however far in the past, and however well documented.

As far as you are concerned, Israel is a Jewish State which has never committed any criminal act, and the whole world is anti semitic.

I say Israeli is a nationality.
Jewish is a religion.

They are not, never have been and never will be interchangeable. There are millions of Jews inside and outside of Israel who have no interest in fighting with Muslims.

It is the Israeli government and its often out of control IDF forces that persecutes, bullies and openly attacks its neighbours.

One day Israeli moderates will get fed up with the aggression and wipe away the warmongers, and Israel will cease to be a threat to surrounding states including Gaza. Then there'll be peace talks.

Who will you support when that happens Keith?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: GUEST,999
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 09:56 AM

There are a few issues that get brought to this table and a few more that should.

1) Israel's handling of the settlements is atrocious and for that they deserve condemnation.

2) Israel's handling of the situation with Syria is about self-preservation and tough shit if y'all don't like it. That includes the BS that started this thread--read the first post.

3) The perception that many here are willing to do anything to slam Israel is clear in that none of those same people said a fucking thing about Muslim atrocities in Mali--in fact, they stayed strangely quiet on that.

Pfffttt!

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 09:45 AM

8. Calls for Israel and Lebanon to support a permanent ceasefire and a longterm solution based on the following principles and elements:
...
full implementation of the relevant provisions of the Taif Accords, and of resolutions 1559 (2004) and 1680 (2006), that require the disarmament of all armed groups in Lebanon, so that, pursuant to the Lebanese cabinet decision of 27 July 2006, there will be no weapons or authority in Lebanon other than that of the Lebanese State;


So Israel, in disarming Hezboallah, is acting strictly in accord with UNSCR 1701. The alternative is to declare 1701 invalid, and resume open warfare. That seems to be what many here are saying should happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 09:45 AM

Sure, Bruce. One resolution you homed in on. I don't think any country should operate in defiance of UN resolutions. But did you see that list I provided for you earlier, of the ones Israel hasn't complied with? Here in the interests of anti-cherrypicking, it is again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 09:42 AM

Our governments are all the same colour, deep blue, and they have to toe the yankee line. And I'm not exactly dismissing those nations' views (though they, too, are yankee camp-followers). But I am wondering what the views of the other 200-odd nations are that you didn't include.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 09:39 AM

UNSCR 1701-15. Decides further that all States shall take the necessary measures to prevent, by their nationals or from their territories or using their flag vessels or aircraft:
(a) The sale or supply to any entity or individual in Lebanon of arms and related materiel of all types, including weapons and ammunition, military vehicles and equipment, paramilitary equipment, and spare parts for the aforementioned, whether or not originating in their territories; and
(b) The provision to any entity or individual in Lebanon of any technical training or assistance related to the provision, manufacture, maintenance or use of the items listed in subparagraph (a) above; except that these prohibitions shall not apply to arms, related material, training or assistance authorized by the Government of Lebanon or by UNIFIL as authorized in paragraph 11;

All States, not just the ones who look the other way.





"Alleged Hezbollah violations
As of February 2009, many key points in the resolution remained insufficiently addressed. In a special report, United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon mentions that "Hezbollah continues to refuse to provide any information on the release or fate of abducted soldiers, and places conditions and demands for the release that are far outside the scope of resolution 1701," Ban wrote in the report.[47] The report also points out that Hezbollah has replenished its stock of rockets and missiles in South Lebanon, and is now in possession of 10,000 long-range rockets and 20,000 short-range projectiles.[47]
[edit]Alleged Israeli violations
The Lebanese government claims that Israel has violated the resolution over 7000 times "by crossing Lebanese airspace," waters, and border on an almost daily basis since the implementation of the resolution.[48]
[edit]Alleged Lebanese violations
In 2009, Israel filed a complaint with the U.N. that Lebanon was not complying with the resolution after a Katyusha rocket was fired from Lebanon and landed next to a house in northern Israel and injured three people. The complaint affirmed Israel's right to defend itself and its citizens.[49] Later in 2009, when weapons that Hezbollah were hiding in a civilian home in a Lebanese town near the border of Israel exploded, both Israel and UNIFIL complained that Resolution 1701 was being violated by Lebanon and Hezbollah. The IDF estimates that the number of civilian homes in southern Lebanon that are being used to store weapons are in the hundreds.[50] Israel also criticized the Lebanese army, which is responsible for enforcing the resolution, for cooperating with Hezbollah in making sure that the evidence of the violation of the resolution had been cleared up before allowing U.N. peace keepers to do their job.[51] Two days later, fifteen Lebanese civilians from Kfar Shuba a "group of 15 Lebanese civilians carrying Lebanese and Hizbullah flags crossed into the Israeli occupied Shebaa Farms.[52] "[53] The IDF took no action to the provocation, but stressed that it was a violation of Resolution 1701. The United Nations confirmed that Hezbollah violated the resolution and that the group is rearming.[54]
[edit]"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1701

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 09:36 AM

tawdry little list of US camp-followers

You can not dismiss the views of all those governments, including ours of both colours.

"anti semitic bastard".
Wrong person Don.
I do not do the personal attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 09:16 AM

""Has it ever occurred to you that you are miscontruing unrest over Israel's serial terrible behaviour as "anti-Israel bias"?""

Of course he hasn't Steve. He's part of the worldwide "Whitewash Israel" campaign.

You can have a go at North Korea, Burma, Zimbabwe, Darfur, Syria and any other bad lads among the nations,...not a PEEP, but just mention Israel and Keith pops out of the woodwork with his pants on fire and attacks you, you "anti semitic bastard".

He can't answer any question with honesty, and when you get an answer at all, it usually comes withe get out clause "It's not my opinion, it's the opinion of others who should know, and therefore I am broadcasting this non opinion to the whole western world, and if it proves to be absolute rubbish, it's their fault not mine".........At this point pausing for an enormous intake of breath.............and off he goes again. "The UN is biased,....Those hezbollah people are indiscriminately firing rockets into Israel, well we believe they bombed a bus,.....anyway they used to fire rockets ...er...seven years ago in an open conflict,.. oh, that's a war isn't it, no, we'll call it something else. Anyway, when they invaded Syrian airspace they were only defending themselves against hezbollah attacks,.....well I know hezbollah aren't doing anything but they might,....d'you think?......eh?"

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 08:56 AM

Greg, I swear, you would argue with an echo!

And enjoy it, like as not. ;>)

Be well,

Greg

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 08:12 AM

What's new? We have a new Obama term, a weakened Bibi, far more hostility to Israel from neighbouring states, an end-game in sight in Syria...there's always something new. What isn't new is that there is still no peace process and Israel is still stealing Palestinian land.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Ed T
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 07:58 AM

I am wondering if any of these pro-anti Israel points have been made before, on any other of the "Middle East" Mudcat threads? (just trying to separate the "new" from the "not-so-new").

Not trying to make myself a Mudcat argument target - just wondering what's new?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 07:50 AM

The United States, the Netherlands, Bahrain, Egypt, the United Kingdom, Australia, Canada and Israel classify Hezbollah as a terrorist organization.

So let's have a look at this. Let's set aside the Israel/US axis for just a mo, as they are openly hostile to Hezbollah and are, er, a little biased, shall we say? Then there's Egypt. Well, a little google will tell you (hardly surprisingly) that relations 'twixt the Muslim Brotherhood and Hezbollah are rapidly warming, definitely a growing spirit of cooperation building there, so might as well cross Egypt off the list. Also, you didn't tell us that the UK's position is not clear-cut. Perhaps we've lifted the blinkers slightly and recognised the part Hezbollah play in Lebanon's democracy (and don't the US absolutely hate it when parties they oppose go all democratic on them...) and the effective way they run schools, hospitals, social services, and develop agriculture and the country's infrastructure. Inconvenient or what. Wouldn't life be so much simpler if Hezbollah were all bad...

Which leaves a rather tawdry little list of US camp-followers. So that's authoritative then. I wonder whether most Islamic/Arabic nations in the region would classify Israel as a terrorist organisation if they were asked the right question (which they won't be, of course). But I forgot. You can't be a terrorist if you're big, can you? In the words of the old adage, Keith, the terrorist is the one with the small bomb.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: kendall
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 07:24 AM

Greg, I swear, you would argue with an echo!

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 07:00 AM

Of course, but not for long.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 06:44 AM

There's a big difference between "we have discussed it" and whether it's true. Has it ever occurred to you that you are miscontruing unrest over Israel's serial terrible behaviour as "anti-Israel bias"?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 06:18 AM

We have discussed the built in anti_Israel bias of UN.
That makes it all the more convincing when even UN agrees.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 06:11 AM

If you're such a fan of the UN, Keith (when it suits you, apparently), then let's hear you condemning the US for their routine, let's-hardly-bother-to-even-turn-up-to-listen vetoes, and Israel for routinely ignoring resolutions demanding that it not only desists from bad behaviour but also hands back land seized in 1967.

Have a read. Then decide whether you think the UN is on your side, Keith, or whether it's OK to just cherrypick the bits they come up with that happen to suit you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 05:54 AM

Not just me Don.
The United States, the Netherlands, Bahrain, Egypt, the United Kingdom, Australia, Canada and Israel classify Hezbollah as a terrorist organization.

And, why do you imagine UN banned weapons transfer to them?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 05:41 AM

""Don, I'm not such an egotist to think what I think means shit to Israel.""

Not aimed at you personally Cap'n, but there are a lot of people trying very hard to stifle that "pointless" discussion, which begs the question....... Why?....If successful, dreadful acts go unremarked.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 05:37 AM

""So in this subject the Israel haters have no case at all.
No wonder they are frantic to change the subject.""

The evidence I posted which shows no confirmed terrorist actions by Hezbollah (just one probable) since 2006, when the were at war with Israel is very much on topic Keith, yet you simply ignore it and keep spouting the same old mantra.

How many years without misbehaviour would it take to show a hard wired Israeli apologist that times and people change?

Seven?.....seventy?.......in your case, forever?

BB,.... ""If we want to REDUCE the death toll, we would have to have Israel control the entire region.""

Be careful what you wish for. Israel is already trying for that and getting too damn close to succeeding. Their arrogance already knows no bounds.

By the time they achieve that aim, the only arabs and muslims left will be in refugee camps, and half of Iran will be radioactive.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 05:21 AM

Press TV is a 24-hour English language news network owned by the state-owned media corporation Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting (IRIB). Its headquarters are located in Tehran, Iran.

The station has been criticised for its uncritical embrace of provocative stances. For neo-conservative[citation needed] British journalist Nick Cohen the station is "a platform for the full fascist conspiracy theory of supernatural Jewish power"[3] and for commentator Douglas Murray it is the "Iranian government's propaganda channel".[4]