BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Barry Finn
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 11:21 AM

She asked about banning books
WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?
She wanted to dump the librarian
WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?
She wanted to sell "her" plane on e-bay
WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?
She had to sell it elsewhere, at a huge loss
She built a 15 million dollar sports complex in a town of 5,6,7000?
& they didn't own the land it was built on, & now the legal fees are throught the roof of that tiny town
WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?
She want's to declare open season of protected species, Bears & wolves
WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT
The war in Iraq & the pipeline are both parts of God's plan
WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?
SHe backed the "bridge to nowhere" till she knew it was going no where & then said "No Thanks" but still took the money
WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?
She thought that standing up for the 'Pledge of Alliance' put her in the same league as our 'Founding Fathers'. They are rolling on the floor laughing their asses off. Does she know they're all dead?
She doesn't know about 'THE' war?
Where's she been for the past 7 yrs?
She doesn't know what the office of the vice Prez is for?
Great resume for a job interview.

How's she gonna explain all this when confroned in a debate, or is no one gonna ask the easy questions?

Can't wait

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list
From: Becca72
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 11:20 AM

Not bad...I only own 11 of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 11:17 AM

Hmmmmm .... I notice The Tropic of Capricorn by Truman Capote is not on the list ... I guess she hasn't read it.

biLL

Subject: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list
From: Stringsinger
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 11:11 AM

What next? Book burning?


> This list is taken from the official minutes of the Wasilla Library Board.
>
> A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess
> A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle
> Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden
> As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner
> Blubber by Judy Blume
> Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
> Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson
> Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer
> Carrie by Stephen King
> Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
> Christine by Stephen King
> Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau
> Cujo by Stephen King
> Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen
> Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite
> Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck
> Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller
> Decameron by Boccaccio
> East of Eden by John Steinbeck
> Fallen Angels by Walter Myers
> Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland
> Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes
> Forever by Judy Blume
> Grendel by John Champlin Gardner
> Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam
> Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone by J.K. Rowling
> Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling
> Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling
> Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling
> Have to Go by Robert Munsch
> Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman
> How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell
> Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
> I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou
> Impressions edited by Jack Booth
> In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak
> It's Okay if You Don't Love Me by Norma Klein
> James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl
> Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence
> Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman
> Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm
> Lord of the Flies by William Golding
> Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein
> Lysistrata by Aristophanes
> More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
> My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier
> My House by Nikki Giovanni
> My Friend Flicka by Mary O'Hara
> Night Chills by Dean Koontz
> Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
> On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer
> One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn
> One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey
> One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez
> Ordinary People by Judith Guest
> Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women's Health Collective
> Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy
> Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl
> Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz
> Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
> Separate Peace by John Knowles
> Silas Marner by George Eliot
> Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
> Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs
> The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
> The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain
> The Bastard by John Jakes
> The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger
> The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier
> The Color Purple by Alice Walker
> The Devil's Alternative by Frederick Forsyth
> The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs
> The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
> The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson
> The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood
> The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder
> The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks
> The Living Bible by William C. Bower
> The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare
> The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman
> The Pigman by Paul Zindel
> The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence Sanders
> The Shining by Stephen King
> The Witches by Roald Dahl
> The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder
> Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume
> To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee
> Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare
> Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the Merriam-Webster Editorial Staff
> Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween
> Symbols by Edna Barth
>

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: John Hardly
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 10:38 AM

mudcat collective: THIS IS HORRIBLE -- SHE'S BANNED BOOKS!

WFDU - Ron Olesko: But it's not true. Check snopes.com. She never banned those books.


mudcat collective: THIS IS HORRIBLE -- SHE'S BANNED BOOKS!

WFDU - Ron Olesko: But it's not true. Check snopes.com. She never banned those books.

mudcat collective: THIS IS HORRIBLE -- SHE'S BANNED BOOKS!

WFDU - Ron Olesko: But it's not true. Check snopes.com. She never banned those books.

mudcat collective: THIS IS HORRIBLE -- SHE'S BANNED BOOKS!

WFDU - Ron Olesko: But it's not true. Check snopes.com. She never banned those books.

mudcat collective: THIS IS HORRIBLE -- SHE'S BANNED BOOKS!

WFDU - Ron Olesko: But it's not true. Check snopes.com. She never banned those books.

mudcat collective: THIS IS HORRIBLE -- SHE'S BANNED BOOKS!

WFDU - Ron Olesko: But it's not true. Check snopes.com. She never banned those books.

mudcat collective: THIS IS HORRIBLE -- SHE'S BANNED BOOKS!

WFDU - Ron Olesko: But it's not true. Check snopes.com. She never banned those books.

mudcat collective: THIS IS HORRIBLE -- SHE'S BANNED BOOKS!

WFDU - Ron Olesko: But it's not true. Check snopes.com. She never banned those books.

mudcat collective: THIS IS HORRIBLE -- SHE'S BANNED BOOKS!

WFDU - Ron Olesko: But it's not true. Check snopes.com. She never banned those books.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: kendall
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 10:17 AM

Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a Governor. (Quote by Sandy Paton)

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 10:01 AM

pdq, did you even read the latter part of this thread, esp. artbrooks' post just before yours? The list thing was corrected back up the thread, also.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: pdq
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 08:08 AM

"Actually, Palin initially requested Emmons' resignation in October 1996, four days before the public discussion of censorship. That was at the same time she requested that all four of Wasilla's department heads resign."

Also goes on to say: "...she rehired Emmons the next day, and Emmons remained at her job for two-and-a-half more years.

All smoke and no fire here. A Democrat operative named Anne Kilkenny came up with this as an attempt to damage Sarah Palin. There is no list since the discussions with the librarian were oral (two or three such discussions) and framed as "hypothetical", as "what if someone asked you to remove...".

Even suggesting that Sarah Palin went to the library to have these exchanges may be wrong, since the various department heads, such as police chief, have regular meetings with the mayor as part of official government business, both policy and planning sessions. I think this would qualify as a policy discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: artbrooks
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:12 AM

"Anne" is Anne Kilkenny, a Wasilla resident, active (according to her) Democrat and Palin opponent. Both FactCheck and Snopes staffers have spoken to her, verified her existence and the fact that she did make the statements attributed to her.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Peace
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:10 AM

What Kat quoted, for sure. It's what elections are SUPPOSED to be about.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:02 AM

It's amazingly difficult to figure out what you can believe of what you find on the Web. That's why evidence, facts, direct quotes, and reliable sources--and skepticism-- are necessary.   It's just too easy to get a misleading paraphrase--either against or in favor of a theory or person.

It seems obvious that the "list" of books proposed to be banned is bogus--sounds just like a standard list put together by a civil libertarian as a flag to be waved against the "Religious Right"--and updated, yet, to include Harry Potter. Nothing to do with Palin.

However it appears that BB's interpretation is also a whitewash of Palin's clash with the Wasilla librarian.

It appears that all sources agree Palin did ask about the possibility of removing certain books from the library. BB et al:   is asking that question--whether books can be removed from the library-- just fine with you? Even if "Anne's" story of pressure turns out to be wrong?


Caveat: I haven't figured out who "Anne" is--but her version of the events has the ring of truth--and seems to be confirmed by several other sources. Obviously, on the Web, you never know. Perhaps Ebbie or somebody else can say who "Anne" is.


But this is "Anne's version--and Anne says, among much else--lots of details of Wasilla and Palen: "I have known Sarah since 1992. Our children have attended the same schools. Her father was my child's favorite substitute teacher."

Re: books

"While Sarah was Mayor of Wasilla she tried to fire our highly respected City Librarian because the Librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin's attempt at out-and-out censorship. so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter. People who fought her attempt to oust the Librarian are on her enemies list to this day."

Anne appears to be not a fan of Sarah--but basically fair.

Elsewhere in her post ( which is taken from comments to MSNBC First Read): she says, in evaluating Palen:

social conservative: mixed. Opposes gay marriage, BUT vetoed a bill that would have denied benefits to employees in same-sex relationships (said she did this because it was unconstitutional)

pro-creationism: mixed: Supports it, BUT did nothing as Governor to promote it.

pro-life: mixed. Knowingly gave birth to a Down's syndrome baby BUT declined to call a special legislative session on some pro-life legislation.

"Anne's" evenhandedness tends to support the idea that she is not a Web plant.

Obviously it's not proven that "Anne" is a reliable source--but her version sounds plausible--though it appears Palin had the right to fire anybody in government under her--they served at her pleasure.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:00 AM

In the end, they will have to talk about real issues and Obama will keep on keeping on and win:

In an interview, today, on MSNBC:

I mean, this is — this should not be complicated. Here's what it comes down to. Under George Bush's stewardship, with an assist from John McCain and the rest of the Republican Party, the economy is weaker now than it has been in a very long time. Unemployment is higher. Poverty is higher. More people are uninsured. Wages and incomes have flat-lined. Middle class folks who used to feel secure now feel unstable. We've got more homes being lost to foreclosure than at any time since the Great Depression.

And John McCain does not have any discernible difference from George Bush when it comes to economic policy. He's got the same economic policy. So if you like what has happened under George Bush's presidency, you should vote for John McCain. If you think that we have to move this country in a fundamentally different direction, then you should vote for me. And that is going to be the case that we make throughout this election, and frankly, that's not the conversation that the McCain campaign wants to have.

Rick Davis was very explicit. John McCain's campaign manager said this campaign is not going to be about the issues. That was his assertion. Well, I think that the American people expect it to be about the issues. They deserve it to be about the issues. That's what we're going to keep on pressing in the weeks that will remain.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:54 PM

It should also be pointed out (in light of the copy/paste upthread a bit) that the librarian was only able to keep her job because of a public outcry demanding it.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:33 PM

"Why would it be an issue at all? Anticipating an attack from the even-further-right?

Improbable."

Hardly improbable!!   There are plenty of people who wish to control what people think and read.

Frankly, if the question were asked on a job interview, I don't think anyone would think twice. This has only become an issue because of who Palin is.   

There are plenty of other question marks with this wacko, and I'm beginning to think this is simply a right-wing diversion. Keep the public questioning a non-story on a hot trigger issue and the bigger issues with less press will float buy. The press will soon paint the people who question her "book banning" as the demons and wackos. It is not far fetched.

Her religious beliefs and how it will play on her decisions is of more concern. Her views on abortion alone is enough to scare the hell out of me. This woman cannot be put near the White House.

They are too damn scared to put her in front of the press.   Lovable Charlie Gibson gets the first shot at her.   They know her cracks will show if she gets grilled by the hard core press.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Amos
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:12 PM

Well, there are a LOT easier ways t find out how a librarian would respond to "book banning pressure". Why would it be an issue at all? Anticipating an attack from the even-further-right?

Improbable.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 10:10 PM

"What the hell kind of question is that to impose on a library manager?"

IF her politics and opinions were OPPOSITE of what we have heard discussed, I would say that she could have been testing the manager to see if this person would succumb to pressure to ban books.   That is rather extreme and the mindset of someone who doesn't trust people, but it is one possiblity.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Amos
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 10:00 PM

Well, here's another question. We ha dlaong upthread dispensed with the fictitious booklist. According to Emmons' testimony the question was raised not one one occasion, but on three separate ones.

But let's ignore the book-banning issue. What is a "loyalty test"? What kind of a criteria is that to impose on a librarian, for goodness' sake? What measure of results in a library system would such a test ensure? And what is the mindset of an executive who considers that proactively testing others for their loyalty is a priority executive action?

Was she acting as a town mayor or a fuerher? What the hell kind of question is that to impose on a library manager?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 09:42 PM

"One false rumor accuses then-Mayor Palin of threatening to fire Wasilla's librarian for refusing to ban books from the town library. Some versions of the rumor come complete with a list of the books that Palin allegedly attempted to ban. The story is false on several fronts: Palin never asked that books be banned; the librarian continued to serve in that position; no books were actually banned; and many of the books on the list that Palin supposedly wanted to censor weren't even in print at the time, proving that the list is a fabrication.

It's true that Palin did raise the issue with Mary Ellen Emmons, Wasilla's librarian, on at least two occasions. Emmons flatly stated her opposition both times. But, as the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman (Wasilla's local paper) reported at the time, Palin asked general questions about what Emmons would say if Palin requested that a book be banned. According to Emmons, Palin "was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can't be in the library." Emmons reported that Palin pressed the issue, asking whether Emmons' position would change if residents were picketing the library. Wasilla resident Anne Kilkenny, who was at the meeting, corroborates Emmons' story, telling the Chicago Tribune that "Sarah said to Mary Ellen, 'What would your response be if I asked you to remove some books from the collection?' "

Palin characterized the exchange differently, initially volunteering the episode as an example of discussions with city employees about following her administration's agenda. Palin described her questions to Emmons as "rhetorical," noting that her questions "were asked in the context of professionalism regarding the library policy that is in place in our city." Actually, true rhetorical questions have implied answers (e.g., "Who do you think you are?"), so Palin probably meant to describe her questions as hypothetical or theoretical. We can't read minds, so it is impossible for us to know whether or not Palin may actually have wanted to ban books from the library or whether she simply wanted to know how her new employees would respond to an instruction from their boss. It is worth noting that, in an update, the Frontiersman points out that no book was ever banned from the library's shelves.

Moreover, although Palin fired Emmons as part of a "loyalty" purge, she rehired Emmons the next day, and Emmons remained at her job for two-and-a-half more years. Actually, Palin initially requested Emmons' resignation in October 1996, four days before the public discussion of censorship. That was at the same time she requested that all four of Wasilla's department heads resign. Palin described the requests as a loyalty test and allowed all four department heads to retain their positions. But on Jan. 30, 1997, three months after the censorship discussion, Palin informed Emmons and Wasilla's police chief, Irv Stambaugh, that they would be fired. According to the Chicago Tribune, Palin did not list censorship as a reason for Emmons' firing. Palin rehired Emmons the following day. Emmons continued to serve as librarian until August 1999, when the Chicago Tribune reports that she resigned.

So what about that list of books targeted for banning, which according to one widely e-mailed version was taken "from the official minutes of the Wasilla Library Board"? If it was, the library board should take up fortune telling. The list includes the first four Harry Potter books, none of which had been published at the time of the Palin-Emmons conversations. The first wasn't published until 1998. In fact, the list is a simple cut-and-paste job, snatched (complete with typos and the occasional incorrect title) from the Florida Institute of Technology library Web page, which presents the list as "Books banned at one time or another in the United States."
"

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 09:13 PM

"For instance is says that the librarian remained at her job for most of Palin's term as mayor, but it neglects to mention that it was a public outcry that kept her from being terminated."

No, they do mention that - much further down. Very odd editing at the site.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:56 PM

That fact check site has worded some of its material rather misleadingly. For instance is says that the librarian remained at her job for most of Palin's term as mayor, but it neglects to mention that it was a public outcry that kept her from being terminated. I think I'll be a bit more suspicious of factcheck.org in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Emma B
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:54 PM

'Palin tries to dictate and make sure all follow her lead (orders). She seems almost like a resurrection of Mussolini---the trains will run on time and I will rule this country. Of course, then Adolf ruled him but that is beside the point.'

Just wondered how long it would take for Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies to come into play :)

I thought it had now been confirmed that she 'requested books to be removed' was a smear every bit as false as suggestions about Obama's religion?

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: artbrooks
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:44 PM

This just in from FactCheck.org on "sliming Palin".

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: GUEST,A Regular
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:40 PM

Two decades ago I 'defended' a fellow teacher from the Parent Council that had decided that a book should be removed from the school library. The teacher had used the book in class, and despite it being on the approved list by the education authority, the PC wanted to have a go at her.

I approached that august body and read from ten publications. I asked if each of theose books should be banned. The answer was yes. I informed them that they'd just tossed out Shakespeare, Salinger, Orwell, Twain and the Holy Bible. (They hadn't read the book I don't think.) Anyway, everyone decided to cool off and the following PC meeting it was decided to let parents first read the book and report page and paragraph that was offensive. I suggested it be in writing so there could be no misunderstanding later. That was the end of it. Inertia is one of the universe's strongest forces.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Peace
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:32 PM

Same issue raises its ugly head in various provinces from time to time. Usually headed by a 'silent majority' (read religious group).

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:20 PM

"I can tell you that NOBODY bans books in MY library. NOBODY. The Head Libraian would have your (choice of words here) if you even AKSED about it. And she HAS too."

Absolutely!!!! I would hope that everyone supports her too. We cannot have books banned.

I wish this country took as much notice about our freedoms being taken away from us when the FCC started dictating what can be broadcast after "Nipplegate".

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Bill H //\\
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:19 PM

I have just come back from chairing a meeting of my local library board and one of our members is the director of a very prestigious library in Connecticut. He brought up--after the meeting--the issue of Palin and her problems with a local library.

I think that the whole issue is not what books are on the list or some such matter. What is of concern is that she attempted to have the Library Director fired and requested books to be removed. It smacks of a further step along a line that the Bush administration has plowed into a path.

The trouble with so much of this is the minutae. Look at the big picture---or use a big brush. Palin tries to dictate and make sure all follow her lead (orders). She seems almost like a resurrection of Mussolini---the trains will run on time and I will rule this country. Of course, then Adolf ruled him but that is beside the point.

One other thought---an aside, if you will. Some say that her family members and issues should be off limits. OK (though it seems not to apply to others). So why is it then that she prominently parades them on the platform---included her newest child and, of course, the new son-in-law to be.   Bet that dude will be a boon at the white house to mingle with the gunslinging, beer swilling set.

By the way--a true Right To Lifer does not believe there is a choice. How is it then that Sarah of the Planet Hypocrisy blesses her daughter for making a right choice. By the way---her first was born(Sarah"s) very shortly after her marriage. Nuff said there about values.

I think the blame for all this lies squarely with John McCain. Pandering in the first degree in choosing a candidate for VP that was not his choice but, rather, a choice to placate and pacify the ultra-right of his party.   Great first decision for a would be Pres.---go for the easy out. Sound familiar?


Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:12 PM

I don't know. I was in the library here once when some biker looking guy came in looking for something by the Marquee de Sade, and they almost threw him out of the place.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:08 PM

Well, I can tell you that NOBODY bans books in MY library. NOBODY. The Head Libraian would have your (choice of words here) if you even AKSED about it. And she HAS too.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:08 PM

Sure, a list might still turn up - that is always a possiblity. If we get really lucky, we can also pin her to the Kennedy Assassinations, 9/11, and the whereabouts of Jimmy Hoffa. As I said, the list as posted is a hoax and we should be talking about facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:08 PM

OK, so she inquired about banning books three times. How long ago was the third time, Amos - and did she make any effort to ban anything in the last ten years?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Amos
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:04 PM

I have no desire to forward false data or offer smears, although I have sometimes done so. I thought Ms Palin was very bright, an excellent spear carrier for her campaign.

But the issue of banning books was raised by her three times, not once.

If I were mayor I think the question would never have come up once. The question I would have asked the town's senior librarian, rather than how she would feel about banning books, is how she would like to expand her booklist, and what could be done to acheive that.

Of all the questions to ask!!!

So, it seems fair to wonder what was on he rmind that the subject even came up once, let alone three times.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Emma B
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:00 PM

thank you Ron I see that you state this is in fact a hoax that has been taken up and run with here?

'But Palin's list might still turn up.' ???

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:59 PM

Also please note that at the time Sarah Palin inquired about book banning, she was 32 or 33 years old. She may have been too young to understand the political dangers of inquiring about something.

Same with the list of ten inappropriate jokes John McCain has told over the last 20 years. Don't you get excused for an inappropriate joke every once in a while?


I gotta say, I was really hoping that this campaign would be about substantive issues. So far, all I see are smears and half-truths and ancient information.

So far, the candidates haven't done any of this smearing, but I think they're silly to go blaming the opposing candidates for the smears. The smears and misinformation are coming from all kinds of sources that are beyond the control of the candidates, so the candidates need to do their best to stay above it completely.

One cheap shot from Palin should be noted, however - her scoffing at Obama's work as a community organizer on the south side of Chicago before he entered politics. I'll bet Palin wouldn't have had the courage to set foot on the south side of Chicago without a bodyguard.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Peace
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:59 PM

Carol speaks well for herself. She doesn't need folks putting words in her mouth. (Sorry about the mixed metaphor. BGut it doesn't rank up there with "The most glorious of lands on which the hand of man has ever set foot.")

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:55 PM

The whole thread is about her wanting to do it. One can say that people who don't want their words to be lied about are splitting hairs if they want, but there is a HUGE difference between wanting to do something and actually doing it.

She asked how she might go about banning books. So that makes a discussion about whether or not she wanted to ban books a perfectly legitimate discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:54 PM

Emma B - I think all of us need to take a step back. Carol is right, she did not say that books were banned but she was reacting to what had been presented as fact with the opening thread and the title and the link.

Long before you posted your link to the Anchorage Daily News, the truth was discussed.

The list is being spread across the internet, and it is dangerous. It is like a bad chain letter. Here is one of the e-mails I received from an individual I deeply repect, but he did not check his facts:

SARA PALLIN'S BOOKS FOR BANNING

Like many of you I am nearly speechless at the selection of a self-described hockey mom with less than 2 years of experience as a governor (in one of the least populated states) as a vice presidential nominee. Even if McCain's advanced age were not an issue, we all need to worry about the prospect of Sara Pallin being but a heartbeat away from the presidency. My God, if the incompetent Bush were not enough for us to endure over the past 8 years, now we have to imagine a White House with Pallin riding shotgun. Can you imagine how the right wing would respond if any Democrat ever tried to bring in someone as inexperienced and blatantly unfit for the job? Trooper-gate notwithstanding, and of course the phony holier-than-thou business, but there's something much scarier going on with this former beauty queen from the much-celebrated "small town America" who is now on the national stage.

Satah Pallin made a strong attempt, during her years as mayor, to be sure that her values--and only her values--would be reprresented in Wasilla, Alaska's library. Below is a list of the many classic books she fought hard to have BANNED; this list comes from the Wasilla Library's own records. A glance over this list will clarify that this woman, who is another link in the chain of conservative tethers on the people of this country, fits in so well with the neo-fascist regime we are just now trying to forget. Many of these books make strong statements which are if not anti-capitalist then at least pro-grassroots movements. Other books feature a strong, hard to face view at a future caught up in totlitarian worlds. But some others simply question the military or turn a young boy into a folk hero. At least one of these books is the story of a mentally retarded young man's trials, tribulations and amazing growth while being tested in a lab environment. Why the objection? Perhaps her great fear of science is showing through. Or her fear of social unrest and upheavel. Or her fear of the occult; heaven forbid someone should enjoy a fantasy story like any of the Harry Potter books. They probably conjure up Satan. Surely some of Stephan King's books must or any books on Halloween or stuff by Maurice Sendak (!), or Pallin wcouldn't have objected to these so harshly. Its for our own good, you know.

You'll note that books which try to normalize gay relationships gotta go. Naturally. The proud mother and mayor couldn't allow any 2-mommy families to sit on a bookshelf near any of her good books on etiquette. Oooh, quick, toss out ANYTHING by Arthur Miller or John Steinbeck; those rabble-rousing upstarts. And just in case any women (or African Americans) get too high-minded, better burn 'I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings", too. Just to be sure. Shit---almost left out 'Catcher in the Rye'. Oooh, that's one that most people EXPECT to be banned, so why leave it out? And some of those nasty Tarzan books just feel icky. I mean, God forbid that nice European man gets too close to a monkey or something. mmmmmmm

OKay, okay, you say---so she's another crusading Jesus freak who can't leave well enough alone. Its just the stuff that's dirty or a little too strange that she's banning. No problem. Then what in hell puts 'Our Bodies, Ourselves' on this list, or 'To Kill a Mockingbird' or 'The Color Purple'? I am sure we can all venture to guess, but this list, taken as a whole represents some of the greatest books this country has produced, alongside a bunch of fun things and a few titles that wouldn't attract many of us, but---so what? Yet, Sara Pallin could never leave it at 'so what?'. And that's what makes this person so goddamned frightening. She felt the need to try to take away opportunities from her own townfolk, tried to steal a wealth of knowledge and fantasy from them. No amount of standing ovations at her speeches can ever disappear this fact---then-Mayor Pallin attempted to tap into the fascist playbook. That's the bottom line. And when the local librarian fought these extreme measures, she found herself reading the Want Ads: the jack-booted hockey mom fired her for protecting the reading rights of Wasilla's citizens.

So look over the below list and imagine life without some of these book Ms Pallin so desperately wants to keep out of readers' hands. And then imagine some of her actions if she ever becomes vice president.

In Solidarity,
XXXXXXXXXXX

A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess
>   A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle
>   Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden
>   As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner
>   Blubber by Judy Blume
>   Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
>   Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson
>   Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer
>   Carrie by Stephen King
>   Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
>   Christine by Stephen King
>   Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau
>   Cujo by Stephen King
>   Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen
>   Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite
>   Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck
>   Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller
>   Decameron by Boccaccio
>   East of Eden by John Steinbeck
>   Fallen Angels by Walter Myers
>   Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John
> Cleland
>   Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes
>   Forever by Judy Blume
>   Grendel by John Champlin Gardner
>   Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam
>   Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone by J.K. Rowling
>   Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling
>   Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling
>   Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling
>   Have to Go by Robert Munsch
>   Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman
>   How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell
>   Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
>   I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou
>   Impressions edited by Jack Booth
>   In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak
>   It's Okay if You Don't Love Me by Norma Klein
>   James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl
>   Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence
>   Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman
>   Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm
>   Lord of the Flies by William Golding
>   Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein
>   Lysistrata by Aristophanes
>   More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
>   My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and
> Christopher Collier
>   My House by Nikki Giovanni
>   My Friend Flicka by Mary O'Hara
>   Night Chills by Dean Koontz
>   Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
>   On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer
>   One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander
> Solzhenitsyn
>   One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey
>   One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez
>   Ordinary People by Judith Guest
>   Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women's Health
> Collective
>   Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy
>   Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl
>   Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin
> Schwartz
>   Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
>   Separate Peace by John Knowles
>   Silas Marner by George Eliot
>   Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
>   Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs
>   The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
>   The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain
>   The Bastard by John Jakes
>   The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger
>   The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier
>   The Color Purple by Alice Walker
>   The Devil's Alternative by Frederick Forsyth
>   The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs
>   The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
>   The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson
>   The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood
>   The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder
>   The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks
>   The Living Bible by William C. Bower
>   The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare
>   The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles
> Wibbelsman
>   The Pigman by Paul Zindel
>   The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence Sanders
>   The Shining by Stephen King
>   The Witches by Roald Dahl
>   The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder
>   Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume
>   To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee
>   Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare
>   Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the
> Merriam-Webster
>   Editorial Staff
>   Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the
> Halloween
>   Symbols by Edna Barth

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:51 PM

Sorry, but I think you are 'splitting hairs' here. Either she DID it, or she did NOT do it.

It is beginning to seem to ME that what we have here is a bunch of hypocrites.....those who are MORE than willing to SMEAR McCain/Palin, but can't take the same regarding Obama.

Why can't ALL of these lies, purported innuendo just STOP?

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:51 PM

"That's the list of books she wanted to ban. "

that were not even all written at the time in question...

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:50 PM

I never said there was a list of books that she wanted banned. I am only saying that the people here in this thread who are accusing the people who have posted to this thread of saying that she actually banned any books are not telling the truth. I haven't seen anyone in this thread say any books had actually been banned.

And as I said before I never said there was a list of books that she wanted banned. In fact, I said in a post earlier in the thread that I didn't find any list.

I think the people in this thread who are not telling the truth about what other posters in the thread have said are not in any position to be pointing fingers at people for not telling the truth.

As I said before... read the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Emma B
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:47 PM

Carol where is the evidence for that?

You have always been an ardent supporter of the truth and sources on other threads for which I have commended you; please give the source for the existance of a list of proposed banned books that is spreading like a virus through the blogosphere.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:47 PM

In the opening post to the thread it says books she wanted banned. That's certainly the question for which I was looking for information, and I didn't see anyone saying that any books had actually been banned.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:45 PM

Uh, Carol....'wanted' is a LONG WAY from 'banned'.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:44 PM

"I think that it should nevertheless be pointed out to people who are saying that if any Obama supporters say something that isn't true, the Democrats lose credibility, that their side isn't in a position to point fingers."

First, "my side" is the Democrats. Second, our credibilty is brought into question because "the left" has a higher standard then the conservative right and their history of dirty deals.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:43 PM

That's the list of books she wanted to ban.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Emma B
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:42 PM

'have no love for Republicans and less respect but that list beggars belief.'

Is this a list of the 'fictious' banned books or what?

it doesn't seem to be on the thread anymore maybe it DID begger belief?

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:37 PM

I didn't see anyone saying that any books were banned. I only saw people saying that she wanted to ban books.

And I agree about telling the truth, but I think that it should nevertheless be pointed out to people who are saying that if any Obama supporters say something that isn't true, the Democrats lose credibility, that their side isn't in a position to point fingers.

I can't quote people, use names, or copy paste anything, so I know it's not going to be easy for people to figure out which posters' comments I am addressing (there are two of them), but there it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Emma B
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:33 PM

she's just another power-hungry person on the hustings.

Nice to agree too!

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Peace
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:31 PM

True, Emma, Who hasn't. Nice to have it agreed that she has too. She was starting to develop a halo when she's just another power-hungry person on the hustings.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:28 PM

"The fact is that she proposed and explored the possibility of censoring the publics access to books."

I agree that she is not suited to be a national leader. She should be questioned for lies with the Bridge to Nowhere, her supposed "ethics", and how her extremist religous views will effect her decision making. Did you see the speech she made in June where she claimed that God has preordained everything?

The problem with the book issue is that it is NOT A FACT that she proposed and explored the possiblity of censoring the publics access to books. The only "fact" that has come out is that she did indeed ask the librarian "if she would be all right with censoring library books should she be asked to do so". The librarian said she was asked the question on three occasions.   I grant you that is a helluva question to ask, and if she was sincerely planning to ban books then she should be exposed, but to draw conclusions based on a question that any of us could ask another is wrong.   If a reporter asked the same question to a candidate, would you draw an immediate inference that the reporter is advocating book bans?

I would love it if proof came out that she was planning a book ban. I would someone to uncover a list - a smoking gun that ties her to this crime.   Until someone can prove it, it is simply wrong to make assumptions.   We are only hurting the chance of sending her back to the frozen tundra and McCain to a retirement home if we make factless accusations. There is enough dirt on this woman, we do not need to perpetuate a falsehood.

Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books
From: Emma B
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:28 PM

'She's played the press for what it's worth'

Who hasn't in this election?