Worst singing accent.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,padgett (at home)
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 10:21 AM

In the Uk there are anumber of different English accents, my native Barnsley is reknowned for still uisng thee and tha (thou) which makes such as Kate Rusby so natural in singing Trad songs

altho I have brummy friends I hate the thick Birmingham accent, altho I loved Cosmotheka (brum?)and singing Cockney Music Hall

Norfolk/Suffolk is lovely accent

When I recorded unaccompanied recently i was amazed to find gutteral stops over which I had no control, this might be explained by the pronounciation of words due to accent as mentioned above and lack of a flow to my accent

However my sound/pa men did an excellent job in removing from my recordings. these are not detectable in normal live singing for they are so short

Anyone any similar experiences?

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Jim McLean
Date: 09 Feb 05 - 05:32 PM

I don't think there are many people who would disagree with John C, be they pro ar anti MacColl. However when a Scot hears MacColl sing in his Scottish voice, he or she knows immediately that this is an actor who fails to convince. Whether this is relevant to the pleasure the listener obtains is another question but the fact remains that his Scottish singing accent was pretty dire.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,PoppaGator
Date: 09 Feb 05 - 02:49 PM

Believe it or not, Dr. John (Mac Rebbenack) really does talk that way! That's an authentic working-class New Orleans accent; as a lifelong musician, Mac probably never had a reason to homogenize and polish up his speech (as he would had he pursued a career in, say, broadcasting). On the contrary, he has found it worth his while to emphasize the non-standard aspects of his English usage.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: sixtieschick
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 03:47 PM

Dr. John the Night Tripper

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: John C.
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 03:00 PM

Dear Roberto (if you're still there?),

Glad that you're a Ewan MacColl fan - unfortunately there's still a lot of prejudice against this amazing artist in the UK. He was a great talent but a very opinionated man who followed a hard left political line. Nevertheless, his opinions were based on a very deep understanding of British/European culture and traditional music. And his political opinions were formed in a British industrial slum during a time of great economic hardship for ordinary British working people.
I believe that Ewan was the only real genius I've ever met and geniuses are rarely easy to get on with (although on the limited number of occasions that I met him I found him always willing to chat and to listen to what I had to say). I still consider him, through the example of his artistry, one of the greatest teachers I've ever had. I suppose someone of the anti-MacColl faction will accuse me of all sorts of heinous crimes but I should say, in my own defence, that I've never been much of a one for heroes but for Ewan I make an exception.
As for his Scottish accent - as an Englishman I should really leave that for the Scots to decide - but it always sounded OK to me!

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 11:55 AM

The worst singing accent is the one that is not your own, particularly if it is an American one.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 11:28 AM

But 'is cockney weren't arf bad guv'nor!

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Splott Man
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 10:53 AM

But then again, Tommy Steele did an awful Irish accent in a recently televised film

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Snuffy
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 09:23 AM

most unintelligible, Dylan is unbeatable . I heard a track by John Prine once. After three or four hearings I concluded he was probably singing in English, but I couldn't make out many words.

most irritating accent for me it has to be Bert Jansch. YMMV

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 09:14 AM

Then you have cloth ears sir!

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,mick
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 08:52 AM

The rooftops in Mary Poppins weren't authentic either . And the soot on the faces of the chimney sweeps probably wasn't real soot atall. The movie is a fantasy , a pantomine .That's the way I look at it anyway and I find Van Dyke's fake cockney accent absolutely charming . I don't think Tommy Steele could have done much better; does anyone remember him singing Little White Bull? I doubt if it will ever make to the digitrad

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 07:24 AM

And Tommy was a moderate singer too - which DVD clearly wasn't.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 07:23 AM

Yes Moses, Tommy would have been an excellent choice. Presumably he wasn't well-known enough for the US audience.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Moses
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 06:50 AM

I always thought DVD was miscast in Mary Poppins and that Tommy Steele should have been offered the part as he had much more talent anyway as well as the authentic accent.

Thought it was only me who cringed every time DVD opened his mouth.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Com Seangan
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 04:18 AM

Bad Accent ? It's got to be Beniamino Gigli for No.1 on his rendering of Mother Machree in his Dublin Concert in late fifties. The man was badly advised to take it on at all.

On the other had his "I'll walk beside you" (in strong Italian accent) went down great. The accenteven enhance the performance - maybe on account of the international character of the song.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 04:03 AM

Jaze, DVD might have sounded English to an American, but he never fooled anyone here in England. He just sounded like the ham actor he was (is?). Why do they do that? Why not use English actors to play English people and American actors to play Americans?

Rene Zellwegger couldn't carry it off either - her shite 'English' accent wrecked an otherwise great performance.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Boab
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 01:44 AM

Martin---you're kidding again!?!?
Seriously----I could name a host of artistes in the UK who are bluegrass and country fanatics and wouldn't dream of singing in anything other than an American accent; usually mimicked, I admit.
The worst accent? Well if by that is meant the most unintelligible, Dylan is unbeatable in any part of the world other than North America.
I forgive him, mind you, if I have the lyrics to refer to;he has some top class material.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Kaleea
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 12:33 AM

Worst singing accent? Wouldn't that imply that the singer was singing in a manner unlike she/he would normally speak? If so, I'd have to nominate the dearly departed hysterically comical character of Inspector Clouseauuuuuuuuuu (Peter Sellers) when he was singing "Thank Heavens For Little Girls" to the Russian Spy who could not, for the life of her, figure out why he just didn't seem the same as when she fell in love with him--or who she thought was him but instead was Omar Sharif in the dark.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Melani
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 12:17 AM

Me, whenever I've learned a song from somebody Scottish or Irish. I try to moderate it, but it just sorta comes out that way. Or any of us at the Renaissance Faire, trying to speak BFA (Basic Faire Accent).

For a long time I thought Hank Cramer was Irish, until I finally heard him speak in his normal Western accent. Though I actually quite like the accent he uses when he sings.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,DavidfromSydney
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 12:05 AM

I must admit I'm always intrigued how Richard Thompson can speak with a middle class north-London accent, and sing as though he came from Durham.

When I first saw Mary Poppins as a kid I thought Dick Van Dyke just had a funny accent, like most Americans. He certainly didn't soumd remotely English

David

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: jaze
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 09:23 PM

Does anyone in England speak like DVD in Mary Poppins? He sounded so... English at the time!

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 08:59 PM

I'm not putting her down, nor do I see any reason for anyone else to- I'm a friend of a friend of her family, and from what I hear she is a better person than some I know.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 08:52 PM

Don't knock Reba. She is enjoyed in trailer courts all over this great land.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 08:27 PM

Reba McEntire's vocal style, not accent, is what irritates me. She came by her Oklahoma accent honestly. But those vocal curlicues..! Raht tarring to the ear.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Teresa
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 06:58 PM

I'll admit, too, that my friend and I, though we both adore the Watersons, we call them the Bleatersons. :)

Teresa

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Hull on earth
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 06:46 PM

I know this will sound awful to traddies, but,as a true traddy for many years, can I now admit that I have never been a fan of Mike Waterson's voice. There I've finally said it. Sorry.

Lal, Norma, Liza, however I will always love.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 04:30 PM

Anything warbling and Celtic.

yecchhhhhh.

I'll take hillbilly any day over that.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Teresa
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 04:14 PM

Hmmm, I don't want to get into a judgmental thing here, so I'm going to say carefully that the accent that surprised me most was the difference in Iris DeMent's speaking and singing voice. I expected her to have a high, nasal, heavily accented speaking voice, and she doesn't. At least, her speaking "accent" is flatter than her singing one.

It's interesting how some singers sound the same when they are singing or speaking, and others sound totally different in each case.

Teresa

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: *Laura*
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 04:03 PM

Folkiedave - sorry - I think I gotta agree with you on that one!

xLx

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Jimmy Hill
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 03:53 PM

I have some sympathy for fake accents, being from Yorkshire. In my native tongue, the vowels are so short that there's nothing to build the notes around. You cannot really sing consonants because almost by definition they are stopping the flow of air, so all depends on lengthening the vowels to form the notes. We dont have long vowels where I come from, so there's little choice but to fake it. Imagine Geoff Boycott singing and you get the picture. My observation is that people tend to sing the song as they heard it: if it was Gaughan they copy Gaughan's nasal, aggressive sound; but would (try to) sing Marvin Gaye like Marvin Gaye.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Roberto
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 01:18 PM

Still not satisfied. Is Ewan MacColl's an awful Scots' singing accent in Geordie (Will ye gang tae the Hielands my bonny bonny love), Sir Patrick Spens, Friendless Mary, Jamie Raeburn, etc? As I admitted before, it may be difficult for me to judge being Italian, but I've listened to many Scots singers, from John Strachan to Jeannie Robertson, from McEwen to Jimmy MacBeath, etc, and I just can't hear this awful accent in Ewan MacColl's singing. Andy, I wish somebody, expert in Scots' accents, would say something clear against your verdict, but in the meantime I hope you could catch your ferry, reach your destination, have a happy new year and don't lay half ower, half ower frae Aberdour. Best wishes. Roberto

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Strupag
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 12:58 PM

It was me that said that Euan MacColl had an awful Scot's singing accent and I'll stand by that.
Jim MacLean, in an other thread agrees with me.
This is taking nothing away from the fact that I admire the man greatly.
When singing an old Scots ballad the man had an accent which reminded me of Scotty in Startrek.
Can't say any more as I am heading off to try and catch a ferry to Raasay for New Year. With the current gale here I have my doubts if it will be running but I'm off to join the queue

Happy new Year


Andy Mitchell

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 11:13 PM

In UK it meads from the middle of the Atlantic - i.e a Brit trying (badly)to sound American.

Or vice-versa...

It can also refer to the accent that results when a Yank transplants to England (or vice-versa).

As a friend of mine (English fellow now a US resident) put it:
"Americans think I sound English; English people think I sound American."

In my own case, my American friends/family tell me I've picked up an English accent; my (English) husband assures me that this is most definitely NOT the case (although he does say that my Yank accent becomes much more pronounced when I'm talking on the phone to someone in the US).

I'd love to be able to "pass"... say more than a sentence or two without prompting the question "Where are you from?" (I keep practising the phrase "I'm a Yorkshire lass, me," but so far, it's a sure-fire way to get a laugh...!)

Cheers,

YY

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Sam L
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 10:03 PM

"Transatlantic" is a stylized pseudo-British/American that many actors and performers trained in, less common now.

   Pop music is theatrical, and a song is theatrical in the basic sense of mixing arts. I don't mind a singer singing in the accent of a barnyard animal if it sounds good. It's a non-issue to me. Just bcause you learned an accent where you grew up doesn't make it real or natural, just handy--it just disposes you to be convincing with it, and you don't need to explain why you use it, to most people.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: PageOfCups
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 05:33 PM

Second place: Pavarotti singing "O Holy Night" in English. He sounds like 1930's stage Eye-tal-yun. [shudder]

First place: Dick van Dyke in "Mary Poppins." Thanks *so* much for reminding me, guys. I'd managed to block it out of my memory - 'til now.

PoC
(who likes Reba's accent, FWIW)

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Roberto
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 11:16 AM

Guest Frank (27.12.03) writes that Ewan MacColl had an awful Scottish accent (and was not Scottish, again this prejudice). This verdict amazes me. Is such an opinion widespread? I'm Italian, and I can't judge very well Scottish accents, but Ewan MacColl's seems to me appropriate, and his voice and singing of the highest quality. I'd really like to read other Mudcatters' views. Roberto

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: CraigS
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 10:49 PM

I can't help thinking of Mick Jagger and Ian Matthews sounding South American! OTOH, PJ Proby (the Halifax UK answer to Johnny Burnette) was 'orribly American. Bob Dylan doesn't have an accent, he is accentuated - and entitled to be so. The Proclaimers are singing with their honest Edinburgh (where sex are for trash) accents, which I find simultaneously endearing and irritating. Me myself I get up peoples' noses in seconds if I'm not trying ...

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Compton
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 07:47 PM

Totally but totally agree with Dave the Gnome ...and the winner Must be Dick Van Dyke...Mary Poppins..No Contest!!!!

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Cruiser
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 01:30 PM

Another Gem from that great crazyman Stafford about a phone number he got from a phone booth wall:

"Lucille! me and you gotta' altogether different idea 'bout A Real Good Time"

From the Album: Jim Stafford 1974 PolyGram Records, Inc.

I'm a'lisnun' tah tuh record rite now.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: The O'Meara
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 01:06 PM

Jim Stafford, yes! "Blackwater Hattie lived back in the swamp..." Great!

Worst accent was any number of groups, South Korean, Cambodian, Phillipino, touring Vietnam during the war courtesy of the USO. Memorable tunes were "Lollin' onna Liver", "We Gotta Git Otta dis Prace", and the unforgettable "Come on Baby Righrt my Fire". (They were appreciated, though.)

O'Meara

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Peg
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 10:17 AM

thanks for reminding me that Jim Stafford was one of my favorite entertainers for a long time.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Morticia
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 07:04 AM

Loreena McKennit doing a Scots/Irish accent....why she feels she needs to is beyond me but it is awful beyond words

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Cruiser
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 04:34 PM

Yes, I have heard Reba speak. I think she cultivates that southern accent in her speech and song, with some exaggeration, for effect.

I was 'borned', as they sometimes say, in the great South. I have deliberately made an attempt to 'shed' myself of the accent I learned as a child. People still recognize the vestiges of that dialect with some of the words I use. Some of my dialect is ingrained and probably can not be completely eliminated. I could cultivate my southern pronunciations to make a song like "Y'all Come", for effect, by drawling the "Yaw", but chose not to do so. I must admit that the following phraseology "don't" quite have the same effect as Y'all:

"You all come, you all come, you all come to see us now and then…"

I don't 'sang' it that way neither. That reminds me of another 'sanger' that I can't listen to: John Anderson and his song "Swingin'" where he sangs "and we wuz swangin', swangin'"

I admit to liking, and sometimes using, nonstandard English such as the stuff my grandfather (and some Mudcatters have) used. Examples like: Yourn, hisn, hern, ourn, and theirn. These substandard vulgar forms of pronouns are humorous when used as parodies or in written style reflecting hillbilly dialects documented in books like the Foxfire series. Shucks, sum of muh kinfok cum frum dem deep dark hollers down yunner in Tennossay.   

I also like the many novelty songs where nonstandard English and accent are used to great effect.

'Life Gits Tee-Jus Don't It' and 'Down On The Farm' by Walter Brennan (and more of his tunes).

'Wildwood Weed' by Jim Stafford

I spent tuh rayst of that day an most of that nite a'tryin' ta find my brother Bill,
Caught up with em 'bout sex o'clock tuh nayxt mornin', naykid, swangin' on the windmill
He sayed he flew up 'air,
I had tah fly up an git em down,
He wuz 'bout haff crazy

Y'all come back now, hear?


'Mr. Custer' by Larry Verne.

Look at them bushes out there
They's a'movin' and they's a injun behint ever one
They's a redskin a'waitin' out there, a'fixin' to take my hair

Most of the mainstream (not novelty) modern country music, with its exaggerated, fake-accented enunciation, is just not what I care to listen to. I usually turn the radio dial when I happen on it. C&W music before the mid- 1970's is some of my favorite.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,DD
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 12:44 PM

While I find it annoying, I would not say that Reba has a "fake drawn out southern accent{". I don't believe there is ANYTHING fake about it. Have you EVER heard her speak?

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Snuffy
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 06:04 AM

Janice,
In UK it meads from the middle of the Atlantic - i.e a Brit trying (badly)to sound American.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 27 Dec 03 - 10:14 PM

In the USA "Mid-Atlantic" means the states on the Eastern Seaboard that are south of New England, but north of Washington, DC. In other words, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, and Maryland. Does "Mid-Atlantic" also mean something in the UK?

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Joybell
Date: 27 Dec 03 - 06:03 PM

I rather think that it's not singers with a distictive accent that's the problem, nor singers who are not using their usual launguage. For me it's the fact that when a stlye gets popular so many other singers suddenly take it up with variable results. Some get away with it but many don't.
Just had a wonderful thought. Wouldn't it be something if the funny accents of the Three Tenors singing in English became popular. We could all do it in the folk clubs. Make a nice change. Three Tenors wouldn't mind. They're famous enough to take it. Going off to practice right now. Joy

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 27 Dec 03 - 05:03 PM

"Funny that you mention Ewan McColl, Joybell, because he had quite an English accent in normal life but his Scots accent, used when he was singing, was pretty awful.
Not that I would say anything against his songs!"

As I understand it, Ewan McColl (nee Jimmy Miller)isn't Scottish.
When you hear many Eastern American singers affect an American Southern country accent, that's not convincing either but many do put the songs across in an effective manner.

Yesterday I heard the three Italian tenors, Pavarotti, Domingo and ? (can't remember his name) sing in English some American pop Christmas songs. The quality of their voices overrode the
peculiar accents for me.

Sometimes a bad accent doesn't get in the way of a good performance.

Frank

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Dec 03 - 03:56 PM

No-one, but no-one will ever beat Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins I'm afraid. Just no contest.

Not my opinion. Simple fact of life;-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,yum yum
Date: 27 Dec 03 - 03:52 PM

sorry, it has to be Johnny Cash!
BUT in his favour I will say...
he makes flat notes sound,    ok!