BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: olddude
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 01:57 PM

It is amazing, on the nightly news, the opening line is Tiger Woods Ex and what she was feeling and how betrayed she was yada yada. We have wars going on, natural and man made disasters, the states are bankrupt and the opening line is a cheating golfer and his EX ..

wow how low the we have sunk .. and we all allow it to happen .. take what the talking heads say as the truth .. Fox news with the sound bite that caused that good black lady to lose her job from something out of context without merit, without research .. it was plastered all over the news ... and what was it in reality .. a political statement to get people fired up against the Democrats that are in power at the moment .. That is what corporate news is today a half truth watered down political action committee to garner votes in a matter consistent with corporate political views.

Thank God we still have PBS .. at least to some degree it is as close to the real facts as one can hope for today and that ain't saying much

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 01:45 PM

Man, you are on a ROLL!!






Now, about that chimp......I mean, I'nm not exactly jealous, ...but, well, I mean...umm......just tell me, pul-leeeeze, just tell me....it's not true...............is it??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 01:14 PM

I'm not recommending anything, Genie. I am merely observing and describing a catastrophic political and social decline in a nation that long ago lost touch with reality.

I don't place any hopes for the future on that political system. I expect it to just keep on doing what it's been doing and slide further down the road to perdition. If I were an American citizen, then I would hold my nose, go to the polls anyway, and glumly vote for the "lesser of two evils", but at this point I would do it with hardly a shred of hope that it would change much of anything for the better.

I'm not saying the Democrats and Republicans are the same. To the contrary, they strike a different outward style (deliberately) and they appeal to different groups of people (deliberately) and that's why their manipulation of the public consciousness is so effective. It has to be done that way to effectively divide and conquer. But....here's the key...they do NOT serve the public. They serve the rich elite which funds and controls them and sets national policy. That rich elite's position is secure as long as the general public are too busy fighting with each other and fearing each other to ever think of joining forces and attacking their real oppressors.

And what is the media's role? To keep people endlessly obsessing over bizarre divisive issues (such as building a mosque at Ground Zero, for instance) or ridiculous gossip (Tiger Woods, Brad and Angelina, etc), and make sure people are upset about something all the time, but have no idea what to do about it except spin their wheels and vent.

What is required to bring down a system that has gone this far out of whack is a full scale revolution. I don't expect that to happen, because people in the USA aren't desperate enough for it to happen yet. They'd have to be running out of food before they became that desperate. That's what happened in the French Revolution. The price of bread doubled almost overnight, and the general public began facing the imminent possibility of starvation. When that happened thousands of angry people took up arms, stormed the government installations, and the system fell.

You can't vote your way out of this one, because the 2 parties you vote for have been bought out. That doesn't mean they're identical. It doesn't mean one might not be worse than the other at some given time, but it means they don't represent you once they're in office.

I could despair about the situation, but I don't, and here's why: This sort of thing has happened in many previous empires. Empires come and go. They rise and fall. But life goes on. My future does not depend on the continuance of some form of government. It depends on me. It's in my hands. The power is mine. And that goes for you too. The government will not solve your problems...YOU will solve your problems. The government is just a big noise that won't go away...but it's not a noise I'm much inclined to listen to, because it would be a waste of my time, frankly. There are much more harmonious noises out there to listen to, and one only has a certain amount of time left in which to listen.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 11:06 AM

Little Hawk:   Yo-Ho!! "The false and illusory dichotomy between them keeps everyone fighting endlessly amongst themselves over party loyalty, which is exactly why it's so useful for the elite to keep maintaining that mythological "choice" in people's minds. The whole thing is a farce, and I'm amazed anyone still believes in it,...."

You have just articulated my exact position, since the very first moment I came on here, to which, I've been called an assortment of odious names, and weathered some emotionally charged asinine blather, from those, who find it 'self-therapeutic' to project the hatred they harbor within them, out on me!!!!

...and talk about division????...."A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways"---The 'Nazz' AND/OR "The weak accuse others of their own motives"---GfS

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, LITTLE HAWK!!!

Guest from Sanity



P.S. Tell me..umm,..well, ..is it true....(shyly clears throat)..well,..you know...the chimp, and you......you're not....um..you know????.......

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Genie
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 10:49 AM

Little Hawk, the problem with your analysis and recommendation ("Why bother voting?") is that that prescription tends to lead not only to Republican victories but the gov't being taken over by the really extreme right wing (e.g., the "Tea Partiers").    Had Al Gore been rightfully installed as President in 2001 there's a good chance the attacks on 9-11-2001 would not have been successful, and even if they had, we wouldn't have invaded Iraq on the pretense that it was somehow justified by the 9-11 attacks.   We would not have had corporate shills and reactionaries like John Roberts and Samuel Alito appointed to the Supreme Court and wouldn't have had an outrageous decision like "Citizens United" allowing multinational corporations to spend unlimited $ to affect the outcome of our elections.
That's just for a start.

Saying there's no difference between the Republicans and Democrats is a bit like saying there's no difference between a 200 lb and a 500 lb woman because "they're both fat."

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Genie
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 10:42 AM

Thing is, Old Dude, Bill Maher and John Stewart don't make any pretense of being journalists or even political commentators - even though they actually disseminate more real information and are far more "fair and balanced" than Limbaugh, etc., or anyone on Fox "News."
But you're right - we really don't have a news media on TV or radio any more, with the possible exception of NPR and PBS, which are themselves both now far too beholden to corporate sponsors for their existence.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 08:23 AM

I believe that both Murrow and Cronkite are kickin', too, Ol'ster...

Cronkite said as much before he died... He was terribly disappointed with where media was headed... Now, with the exception of a few oasises what we have is a wasteland of corporate propaganda being pushed off as, ahhhhh, news...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: olddude
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 08:13 AM

The rumbling you hear all the time ... that is not an earthquake . It is Thomas Jefferson kicking the crap out of his head stone !!

Media ... doesn't exist anymore .. Edward R. Murrow or Cronkite that use to give the people the truth .. the unbiased facts have now been replaced with a Lindbaugh, a Beck, Coulter or a guy like Bill Maher.

We are all pawns of the corporate machine .. like mushrooms we are kept in the dark, given a diet that they want us to eat ... bullshit as if it was the truth ..

I cannot stand the tea baggers .. but ya know what, I completely understand their frustration

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 08:01 AM

I can accept, GfS, the fact that the rich don't wnat to invest in this market... I understand that... That is a rational observation...

What is not rational is that the rich need more tax cuts... They are now sitting on piles of cash they really don't have a clue what to with so giving them even more, while also compaining about deficits, is complete insanity...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 02:43 AM

You got it, GfS. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans (those 2 party machines, I mean) can be counted on to EVER do anything real to change the way things are and to truly represent the public. Not a dog's chance in hell. They don't work for the public, they work for the rich elite which funds them.

The false and illusory dichotomy between them keeps everyone fighting endlessly amongst themselves over party loyalty, which is exactly why it's so useful for the elite to keep maintaining that mythological "choice" in people's minds. The whole thing is a farce, and I'm amazed anyone still believes in it, but I guess they'd rather believe in a hopeful fairy tale than face the fact that their vote really means just about nothing most of the time.

As long as they keep believing in Santa Claus, and backing one of those corrupt parties against the other, they'll just go on blaming it all on "the other party", and the farce will go on and on.

Divide and conquer. That's how it's done.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Genie
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 02:34 AM

Mark,
My prediction about the 2012 election going Republican if Republicans should regain control of Congress this fall is based on the near-total domination that the huge multinational corporations and the well-funded right-wing think tanks and sting-pullers already have on our voting systems and the media and the courts.    There is some hope of some push-back against that if the Dems retain power and if -- and this is a huge "if" -- they finally show both some wisdom and some backbone in standing up to those forces.
But if the speculation is correct that the moneyed corporations are holding back on letting their cash "trickle down" either until the Republicans regain power or until the recession/depression has run its course, and if the economy bounces back only after the Democrats have been defeated, I don't think it matters who the Dems run in 2012. They will lose.
Way too many voters are stupid and gullible and the media exacerbate that by their sloppy and/or biased reporting and commentary.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: MarkS
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 12:42 AM

"But I think that if the Republicans take control of Congress this fall, Obama will be officially defeated in 2012, along with Republicans retaining control of Congress, because of the factors we've already cited ............"

But Genie - First, its not clear that repub gains will take place this year. Yea, it looks likely, but November is still a long ways away. Also, 2012 is an eternity away, politically speaking. A more likely scenario would be another dem (Hilary) challenging Obama for the (re)nomination, so the 2012 election would likely be between two people not on the radar screen today.

But just for a thought experiment..........Hilary Clinton vs. Sarah Palin? Hope I live long enough to enjoy the comments here if that were to happen!   But hey - either way we get our first female president!

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 09:03 PM

Actually, If the government, BOTH sides just enforced the laws concerning monopolies, and got themselves out of the way, and OUT of everyone's lives, the PEOPLE, could get us out of this mess...but both the corrupt government and the corrupting corporations, are the reason we have this economic problem we have now!...Not if this party did this and the other party did that. Neither one of them gives a rat's ass about us, but rather, what opportunistic situation can they cap on, for their personal gain....even if they have to 'give a little' (concessions), to get it through.

People are afraid to invest, or even to trade, or hire, out of FEAR, of what new BULLSHIT is going to come down on them..and from who?..other people?..NO, from the government taking they're dictates from the elite, ultra wealthy, power and greed mongers!

BOTH SIDES!!!

So, to me, it is a fruitless exercise to watch the polarization that comes down, and to listen argue such points. While we do that, they just keep it up, because they are hidden, behind the distraction!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 08:09 PM

Hey, look... If the upper 5% of wage earners corral 80% of the wealth then they should pay 80% of the taxes... Ain't friggin' rocket science... Anything less is a regressive tax system to put higher burdens on those not in the upper 5%... I'm so sick of hearing that statistic because it only proves that the rich ain't paying theiy way... We're either gonna tax fairly on how much folks take in or we're not... Right now the rich are getting a free ride...

(But, Boberdz... The rich are allready paying over 50% of the taxes...)

Like I said... This is the most bogus argument ever propagated by the ricdh and those who whorship the rich...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Genie
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 08:02 PM

A major part of our problem is that our media "stars" (including "news anchors," commentators, etc.), like way to many of our elected officials, are way too wealthy to really relate to the issues that face the vast majority of Americans (not to mention the rest of the world).   People tend to dismiss academia as the "ivory tower," but I think our Senators, Presidents, Federal Judges, and many Congressional Representatives - plus the corporate lobbyists they hang out with - those are the ones really in an ivory tower. Way too many in the "news" business and politics view it all as some sort of sports contest, where what's important is the excitement and fun of the game and also the spoils that come with winning. They rarely seem to approach it as a difficult, serious job with people's lives and livelihoods depending on how it's done.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Genie
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 07:54 PM

My goof, Bruce. I read that as "the top 50% Pay ALL" and another 10% pay 40%.

But your statement about the top 50% paying "all" the income taxes is total BS (not to mention absurd). Who do you think gets all that tax money that I and the rest of us us below the median income pay?

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 06:30 PM

The problem here, as Genie alluded to, is that the media won't allow a "real issue" to make to the forfront... No, what we have is bullshit and more bullshit about nuthin' and we are not looking at any issues...

That is purdy messed up way to run a messed up nation...

At some point in time we're going to have to quit the bullshit and, HOORORS, face the fuckin' problems and address them head on...

Right now, it seems like politics have become the new "reality series" where people tune in to see people hurt one another...

I personally don't think we, as a nation with serious problems, have the LUXARY, or playing too many more games here...

And, IMHO, it is the Repubs and their media-bed-buds that are standing in the way of addressing these massive problejms... And it will, no matter what happens in Novemeber, be the Repubs and their media-bed-buds who will ultimately be hald accountable...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 05:08 PM

"~ How can one group pay ALL the income taxes and another group pay 40% of them?
"


The top 50% includes the top 10%. Capiche?

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 05:02 PM

Wee Beardie is well aware- he just doesn't give a toss.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Genie
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 04:48 PM

Bruce,
The lower and middle income people pay a much higher percentage of their income in taxes than the rich do - especially if the rich get most of their income via inheritance or interest, dividends, etc. (This disproportionality is exacerbated by things that the working class and poor buy which are taxed.   How fair is it, for example, that if you buy a car you pay sales tax on it but if you buy a car company you don't?) The rich - big businesses, at least - use a disproportionately large percentage of the public's money, by way of the legislatures, courts, etc.

~ How can one group pay ALL the income taxes and another group pay 40% of them?

And you're aware, aren't you, that many wealthy people and corporations pay no income taxes whatsoever, because of loopholes, off-shoring, etc.?

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 04:17 PM

Like I said, Genie -   Brain Death Rules!! No facts or intelligence or critical thinking need apply.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 04:17 PM

Genie,

"The money that Republicans spend making people go to fight their wars (sometimes when the public has nothing to gain from being at war) is the taxpayers' money "

1. the Republicans represent the rich
2. the rich pay most of the taxes

conclusion- the TAX dollars that are being spent are coming MOSTLY from Republicans.


I know, there ARE rich liberals- as well as poor Republicans (ie, me!) but the first statement has been a staple of ALL Mudcat discussions, and to refute it would upset the vast majority of those posting.

The second point is a matter os fact- the TOP 50% of earners pay ALL the income taxes, the top 10% pay something like 40%. ( not looking up exact number- feel free to check it)

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Genie
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 04:03 PM

Oh, and Bruce,
That definition of Democrats and Republicans is pretty far off the mark.

The money that Republicans spend making people go to fight their wars (sometimes when the public has nothing to gain from being at war) is the taxpayers' money -- and it's often spent in ways that enrich the military-industrial complex that includes a lot of those Republicans' stock holdings.    Oh, and a lot of taxpayer money is also spent on police, legislators, courts, prisons, etc., to enforce laws against things that "conservatives" don't want people to have the right to do in their own private lives.

True progressives and liberals want public as well as private money to be spent doing the people's business -- e.g. building and maintaining the country's infrastructure, protecting public and worker safety and caring for the environment, providing education for all, and tending to other important parts of "the commons."    To the extent that Democrats are progressives/liberals they are of like mind.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Genie
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 03:54 PM

BB, here's another example of how the media "spins" the facts in a way that abets self-fulfilling prophecy.
You speak of Obama's "low" popularity, and the "mainstream media" have for months been leading with headlines like "Obama's ratings are at a new low" -- whether he's dropped from 70% to 60% or to 50%, etc. What they conveniently (or lazily?) neglect to mention is that a) Obama got "only" about 54% of the popular vote when he was elected (and that's considered be a "landslide" or close to it, because elections are often closer than that), and b) many other Presidents, e.g., the sainted Ronald Reagan, had ratings at or below Obama's at the same points in their Presidencies.    GWB's ratings during his second term often dipped below 30% favorable.

What's amazing (and heartening) to me is that Obama's approval ratings continue to be near 50% in most polls despite being criticized by many in the media for just about everything he does and despite having more venom thrown at him than any President I can remember.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Genie
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 03:44 PM

Bruce, aside from the obvious bias in the "issue" selection and questions, it's no surprise that most respondents favored the Republicans, with the way that the "mainstream media" (not to mention 90& of political talk radio shows) present the "issues" and news about them.
Let's not forget that an alarmingly high percentage of Americans still believe that Saddam Hussein was behind the attacks on 9-11-01, that Obama is a Muslim, that Obama raised taxes on the middle and lower income tax brackets, that Obama was not born in the US, that Social Security is bankrupt, that Al Gore claimed to have invented the internet, that a heavy snowfall in NYC in winter is inconsistent with global warming, that you can be a communist and a fascist at the same time, and many other erroneous ideas.

The TV news and commentary shows - even the ones that people don't think of as biased - present "information" and issues and ideas in simplistic form at best. They often allow political spokespeople to spout their party's talking points without question. When they do present a controversy, it's usually in a form like "Environmentalists say ____, while others say _____." They seldom play referee, clarifying issues and correcting misperceptions, even when the facts are easy to find and pretty much undisputed.

There are other good, scientific polls where people are asked their views on specific issues (clearly worded and more specific, not just vague terms), and on those the majority of Americans agree more with the views of Democrats and liberals/progressives than with the conservatives or Republicans.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 03:27 PM

Well, little Greggie,

Looking at the poll numbers I can understand why they are so low for Obama.


"Nay, Wee Beardie, but being incorrect - particularly when it impacts the financial of the nation, sure should make one unpopular!"

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 02:58 PM

Nay, Wee Beardie, but being incorrect - particularly when it impacts the financial of the nation, sure should make one unpopular!

vide Geo. Dumbya & Voodoo Economics.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 02:47 PM

Yeah, and then there's (Republican!!!) Herbert Hoover's take on things, just prior to the Great Depression:

"You know, the only trouble with capitalism is capitalists; they're too damn greedy."

The current Republican party -or what currently passes for the Republican party has either completely lost touch with reality or been captured by aliens.

No facts/brains/logic need apply.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 02:47 PM

lefthanded guitar,

The best definition of the two parties I have found is:


A Republican spends a lot of his own money making people do what he wants them to do;
A Democrat spends a lot of OTHER peoples' money making people do what he wants them to do.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 02:43 PM

Greggie,

I may have stated a while ago that being unpopular does not make one incorrect ( OR correct). I'll have to look back at that.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 02:41 PM

Well, little Greggie,

"that just points up the fact that the Ametican Electorate is brain dead, "

Proven by the LAST election, obviously.




"PS: Back in the day of Dombya and the BuShites, you had no use for polls, claimed they were bogus, useless, etc."

Oh? I have no record of that- care to provide evidence when yoyu make claims about others???

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: lefthanded guitar
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 02:13 PM

More and more voters are becoming I ndependents, with voters having a well merited disaffection with the players of both parties. From my humble view, I think this has been a basically Republican (and leaning ever more to the conservative view) federal government for about the past 40 years. Richard Nixon, not to mention Eisenhower, would probably be considered liberals, compared to the elected officials of the Bush (jr.) and Reagan eras.

However, to paraphrase Ed Koch, the brilliant and controversal ex mayor of New York City (and OFT considered as one who sold out to Republican, conservative issues) in a commentary as to who his party devotion belonged to:

"There is one fundamental difference between Republicans and Democrats. Republicans say, 'Hey I made my way, I pulled myself up by my own bootstraps; so should everyone else.'
Democrats say: 'Hey if you've had some trouble, we can lend a helping hand. After all, we're all human.'
Which is why I am a Democrat."

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 02:05 PM

Republicans lead Democrats 47% to 39% on the economy, which remains the most important issue to voters.

Well, ya see, Wee Beardie even assuming the poll is an accurate reflection of voter sentiment (which whole 1000 persons did they query out of a population of 290+ million?) that just points up the fact that the Ametican Electorate is brain dead, since Republican voodoo economics is what got the U.S. into the current financial shithole and has been PROVEN to be what got the country into the current financial shithole.

PS: Back in the day of Dombya and the BuShites, you had no use for polls, claimed they were bogus, useless, etc. Why the change of heart??

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: olddude
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 01:55 PM

Bill Clinton was certainly the most conservative President we had in regard to the economy and that is an example of why we had such a surplus and such a solid economy ... I think that coupled with the fact he was just smart. Everyone knows I am close to Bill and Hillary and certainly supported Hillary when she ran (why wouldn't I). I am also an Obama fan, I think he is trying to do a lot of good especially in health care ... I also don't like things such as the cell phone give-a-way .. that drove me nuts .. those are tax dollars we are talking about .. that did nothing to help anyone I thought only increased the national debt. Likewise I do have a problem with the extension of the unemployment compensation. Only for this reason. My state the state of New York is broke. They cannot afford the increase in unemployment benefits .. what then happens is they start to layoff state workers to pay for such services increasing the unemployment rate. One cannot help those unemployed by forcing others into unemployment .. that doesn't make sense to me. So it is issue like this that we need to address as a nation .. We need to help those in need but we need to do it in a careful and smart manner. I would have said lets increase it for those who are retraining and retooling for new careers in school. There is no money and we are borrowing from foreign governments to pay for this stuff. Likewise why wasn't there very close restrictions on the wall street housing bail out ... Obscene to allow executives to use tax dollar for bonuses .. I would have hoped that Obama would have stopped that stuff. I know he wanted to .. don't know what happened to not make that occur. So for me, there is plenty of blame on both side of the political arena to go around. Obama inherited a mess and he is trying to solve many of the problems he inherited .. he is doing well in many regards and not in others .. But it was certainly better than any of the alternatives I saw for sure. This independent voter will look at everything next election like I am sure others like me will do.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 01:54 PM

The skew in that selection of topics quite takes my breath away.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 01:31 PM

"Trust on Issues

Voters Now Trust Republicans More On All 10 Key Issues

Thursday, August 26, 2010

Voters now trust Republicans more than Democrats on all 10 of the important issues regularly tracked by Rasmussen Reports.

The GOP has consistently been trusted on most issues for months now, but in July they held the lead on only nine of the key issues.

Republicans lead Democrats 47% to 39% on the economy, which remains the most important issue to voters. Those numbers are nearly identical to those found in June. Republicans have held the advantage on the economy since May of last year.

But for the first time in months, Republicans now hold a slight edge on the issues of government ethics and corruption, 40% to 38%. Voters have been mostly undecided for the past several months on which party to trust more on this issue, but Democrats have held small leads since February. Still, more than one-in-five voters (22%) are still not sure which party to trust more on ethics issues.

Government ethics and corruption have been second only to the economy in terms of importance to voters over the past year.

Two surveys of 1,000 Likely U.S. Voters each were conducted August 19-20 and August 23-24, 2010 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.

Republicans hold a 52% to 36% lead over Democrats on the issue of taxes. It's the only issue this month on which the GOP earns the trust of the majority of voters. In June, more than 50% of voters nationwide trusted Republicans more on the issues of national security, taxes and health care.

Voters trust the GOP over Democrats by a 49% to 37% margin on national security and the War on Terror but give the GOP just a 43% to 40% edge on the war in Iraq. Republicans are trusted more by 43% to handle the war in Afghanistan, compared to 36% for Democrats.

On the issue of immigration, Republicans are trusted more by a 44% to 35% margin. That gap has narrowed slightly from June, when the GOP led 47% to 32% on the issue. It was the party's largest advantage since January.

Despite a judge's ruling putting key provisions of Arizona's new immigration law on hold, most U.S. voters still favor passage of such a law in their own state.

An overwhelming majority of voters think all those who vote in this country should be required to present photo identification before they cast their ballots.

On health care, voters now trust Republicans slightly more - by a 48% to 40% margin. In June, the GOP held a 51% to 40% edge on this issue. Fifty-six percent (56%) of voters continue to favor repeal of the national health care bill, with 46% who Strongly Favor it.

The parties remain close on the issue of education, with the GOP holding a statistically insignificant 41% to 40% edge. Both parties have held very modest leads on this issue for the past several months.

When it comes to the issue of Social Security, voters again give the Republicans the edge, this time by a 44% to 38% margin.

Republicans hold a nine-point lead over Democrats on the Generic Congressional Ballot for the week ending Sunday, August 22, 2010. They've led on the ballot since last summer.

Incumbent members of Congress don't exactly get a vote of confidence from their constituents. Just 27% of voters think their representative in Congress is the best possible person for the job, down six points from November of last year. Only 37% believe their local congressional representative deserves reelection, compared to 42% who felt that way way last fall.

Sixty percent (60%) of voters say most members of Congress don't care what their constituents think. Most voters continue to believe it would be better for the country if the majority of Congress is thrown out this November, but they also remain unconvinced that a Republican takeover will make a noticeable difference. "


http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/trust_on_issues

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Genie
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 12:13 PM

GfS and Old Dude,
I'm not blindly loyal to any political party, and I do try to read and hear both/all sides of an issue - as long as the issue is important (not whether someone prefers Dijon mustard to "plain" mustard or whether the rhetoric of someone's pastor is flambuoyant ) and what's being said seems to be honest and fair.   
The problem I have with many right-wing talk shows and even many "news analysis" shows is that they deal in out-of-context sound or video clips, distort the facts, focus on trivial or tangential issues, and spend way too much time predicting what's going to happen next -- that is, when they're not engaging in lazy, biased, and sloppy "interpretation" of what current events (e.g., election results) "mean." (Case in point: Media 'pundits' declaring that election results over the past year or two show "anti-incumbent sentiment," when a lot of the data don't square with that interpretation and other results are easily attributable to other factors.)


olddude - PM
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 11:27 AM

What disturbs me is this. When there is a very good hardworking and caring person who happens to be Republican. The party anymore doesn't want that type. They have been pushed so far to the right that it gets more than disturbing.

My family especially my uncle is very close to Tom Ridge. He was the first homeland secretary. Tom left DC holding his nose. The guy was probably the best Gov Pennsylvania ever had .. and a very good decent person. He walked, did his job then left holding his nose .. Now why would that happen ..

I do agree that today's Republican Party bears little or no resemblance to the party of Richard Nixon, Nelson Rockefeller, Everett Dirksen, Tom Ridge, Gerald Ford, etc., - much less that of Teddy Roosevelt or Abraham Lincoln.    But today's Democratic Party is far less liberal than that of Franklin Roosevelt, Thomas Jefferson, JFK, Lyndon Johnson, Harry Truman, George McGovern, or Jimmy Carter.   The real progressives tend to vote Democratic because there's no chance of being represented in national office, or even most state offices, by any other party.   But even the Obama administration has pretty much relegated voices like Dennis Kucinich, Alan Grayson, Bernie Sanders (Ind. - Vermont), etc. to the "fringe."

It's been said that Bill Clinton was the best Republican President we've had in recent decades, and I think that's a pretty accurate assessment.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Genie
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 11:55 AM

OK, Mark,
Given that Obama can veto any bills passed by a Republican Congress, the reinstatement of Dubya's tax cuts probably won't go through before early 2013. But I think that if the Republicans take control of Congress this fall, Obama will be officially defeated in 2012, along with Republicans retaining control of Congress, because of the factors we've already cited (control of voter registration, voting machines, congressional redistricting, media ownership consolidation, limitless campaign spending by corporations, big corporations wanting Republicans to win, etc.)   So those tax cuts for the ultra rich and for income acquired by means other than wages/salaries will be reinstated in the near future.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: olddude
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 11:27 AM

What disturbs me is this. When there is a very good hardworking and caring person who happens to be Republican. The party anymore doesn't want that type. They have been pushed so far to the right that it gets more than disturbing.

My family especially my uncle is very close to Tom Ridge. He was the first homeland secretary. Tom left DC holding his nose. The guy was probably the best Gov Pennsylvania ever had .. and a very good decent person. He walked, did his job then left holding his nose .. Now why would that happen ..

I also see on the Democratic side people going farther and farther to the far left and that is disturbing also.   I am a registered independent for very good reasons although the democratic side always makes more sense to me .. but we cannot have this outer fringe either way and be successful as a nation. And the republicans seem to have gone further to the edge than most dems I see

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 07:51 AM

Don't forget Katrina, Genie... Dubya kinda missed out on that one, too... Might of fact, they had to strap him into AirForceOne and duct tape his face to window and fly over New Orleans for him to believe that it actaully happened... I didn't realize that coke 'causes "flashbacks" but, hey???

Yeah, GFS, they do both have them... I just can't think of any Dems out there lieing thru their teeth about mush these days while the Repubs are pushin' so many lies around that they must be gettin' tongue-weary...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 04:13 AM

I would try to look from each side's point of view, and get the reasoning,..and the TRUTH, before I would allow my emotions to be manipulated by those who wish to cloud the TRUTH, for a slick, hidden agenda.....on BOTH sides, and including everyone of them. They are ACCOUNTABLE to US...and we should NOT be swayed by "Stereo Politicians, speaking from Both Sides of Their Mouths"...either side, because THEY BOTH GOT THEM!!!!!

To not believe that, because of some 'party loyalty' is sheer nonsensical crap....they can, and do shovel it, but I ain't eatin' it!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 11:47 PM

Bobert, works for me. Here's the addy:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: MarkS
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 11:18 PM

"Mark, if the Republicans take control of Congress, the Estate tax will be totally eliminated and the other GBW tax cuts will be reinstated - at least for 10 years minus one day - so deficits are not likely to decrease, even if government programs are cut."

But Genie, but you have to remember that the Bush tax cuts are in effect right now. They will end on December 31, no matter the outcome of the November elections. The earliest any changes could even be started - assuming the repubs gain control of both houses of congress - will be after the new congress is seated, sometime in January. So then this hypothetical republican congress will pass legislation in both senate and house and Obama will sign it!
NOT!
So to repeat - taxes will go up in January, regardless who wins in November.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Genie
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 10:40 PM

Leadfingers, the media uproar over Obama's "vacations" would be laughable, in view of the record # of "vacation days" GWB took during his 8 time in office, if it the media-consuming public weren't so easily led around by the nose.

All Presidents are, of course, "at work 24/7/365" in the sense that they're always "on call" and usually do conduct some government business during their "vacation" days (unless, like SC Gov., Mark Sanford, they decide to "hike the Appalachian trail" in So. America w/o letting their aides etc., know where they are).    But Dubya was often not really on top of things (e.g., on the morning of 9-11-2001).   The Republicans have got a lot of chutzpah (and not in a good way) criticizing Obama every time he plays a round of golf or spends a couple days with his family away from the White House.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Joe_F
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 10:11 PM

1. Business is best when fools can borrow.
2. You can combine low unemployment with low inflation by borrowing from foreigners.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 10:10 PM

That link doesn't work, kat...

But it's no wonder that when Dems are in officew that mega bucks are spent to try to find dirt on them... Look at how much was spent by both the Clinton haters and the Ken Starr harrassing Bill Clinton... Now it's Obama...

This is waht have spokan about lots of times... The Repubs are the party of the rich and they will spenf whatever it takes to discredit Dem adminstrations... Unfortunately, the Dems don't have that many rich people on their side willing to return the disfavor...

b~

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 09:53 PM

If the Koch Bros. have anything to do with it, it will tea-party/libertarians who will take over. They have waged a personal war against President Obama in a very insidios and multi-million dollar kind of way: The billionaire Koch brothers' war against Obama.

Good for Michelle for not being there, btw.

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 09:51 PM

Doesn't much matter, lead... If Obama found a cure for cancer there would be people twisting that into some hate filled thesis...

Most of us who opposed Bush's policies were confronted as Bush haters and we stepped up and said, "No, we aren't... We hate his policies"... These Obama haters make no distiction... You call them on it and they don't deny it... Lots of media hate Obama for various reasons... Some because he3 is black, others because he represents hope and others because they just hate Democrats being in power... I think the later is the bulk of them...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 09:38 PM

An interesting point is that Anti Obama Spin happens in UK media too - The Torygraph had an aricle about Obamas SIX holidays this year
with dates - THREE of them were ALL of TWO days which would be a weekend in MY book ! Is the president supposed to be at work 24/7 ?

Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like?
From: mousethief
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 09:02 PM

The Handmaiden's Tale.